Erratic

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I just couldn't see me using it and having enough end to keep RI up while blasting because like you said when RI drops it can be deadly.

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Its a toggle, you can turn it off when you're getting low/don't need it.

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However it is you who are on the lark Erratic. You. It is really sad that you cant see that.

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You are the one who continually makes it into a personal matter. You did it in the Hasten thread and you're doing it here. Until you behave better, I'm done with discussing the matter with you.

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And where did you see that streak breakers apply to the mobs?

Last I heard, geko said that only human players get streak breakers cause the mobs don't get frustrated by long strings of misses.

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I specifically recall him saying otherwise, but of course didn't think it important to note where at the time (guess I should use the Favorite thread thing next time geko posts).

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This is truth, 99% of the time the blaster pays the penalty for a group slip up. Hence you'll find many blasters become disillusioned with grouping because they are the first to suffer. Not even Erratic can argue this. Even in his leet groups with the invincible blasters I am sure he can tell us that IF anyone dies it is almost certainly the blasters.

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We jokingly refer to our Fire/Fire Blaster as The Grim Servant of Death because so very often everyone around her dies. But I'll be sure to ask her what her impression is of relative death ratios.

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Once again Erratic you are busy telling us what "should" happen and we are telling you what *has* happened. Thousands of other people can see what they want, but they are not blasters. I mean seriously the way i see it what your doing is like trying to tell a bird what the sky should be like.

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Once again Punisher2020, you're off on some lark that says that only you can have any relevant personal experience and that you get to sit in judgement of what others claim, dismissing what doesn't fit with your world view.

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Somehow you took from this that i meant blasters are safe 99% of the time. What freak slip of your mind caused you to think this i do not know. What i was actually saying is that as long as the group operates flawlessly (how often does that happen?) the blaster is ok, but if the group slips up in the slightest bit, the penalty for that usually lands squarely on the shoulders of the blaster.

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And again, the undefined flaws can't impact anyone else and somehow are flaws that slip past competent players. Again, nuking before the Controller lands his Hold is not good play. Not letting the Tanker Provoke is not good play. Not taking an AT designed to buff your defenses or weaken the opponent is your choice, but don't come crying when you get burnt for it.

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But the reality of the matter is that Blasters can get exp more safely and much of the time more quickly soloing or duoing then in a significant group

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Feel free to do so. And when it shows up in the datamining expect more incentives not to do so.

I can see hotairus felt a need to reward one of my posts with:

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*** You are ignoring this user ***

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Bliss!

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I've called for a Blaster nerf somewhere?

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The just what are you doing here? Did you say to yourself “hey blasters want to call attention to the legitimate problems they have in this game, as someone who doesn’t know how to play a blaster I feel I am obligated to crap in their thread”?

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You feel the following example of what you "true" Blasters (at least as you want to portray it) have to say is legitimate?

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If Statesman goes through with his plans we won't be able to solo ANY groups with any resonable reliability.

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Fact of the matter is that I haven't crapped in the thread, others have taken things south because they didn't like their claims of doom and gloom being objected to. Half of what I've written has had to be correction of very poor and obvious distortions of what I've previously written including twits claiming "You're telling us not to use our AEs!!!!!!" or "You're trying to get use nerfed!!!" when in fact nothing I've written in this thread suggests either thing.

But you'll leap on me as opposed to your fellow hysterical blasters. But here, let me remind you of something you yourself wrote:

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The simple fact is, three whole AT’s, and even a large part of the blaster AT, become pointless if you can kill stuff with alpha strike AoE’s. The devs would be irresponsible to keep this in the game so people using two primary sets won’t have their feeling hurt.


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Retreating from that?

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I just want to know what you really think about blasters. Thanks.

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1. Blasters are neither obsolete nor do I suspect the developers are planning on driving the class to extinction. Claims of either are needless provocation given the very obvious and deliberate way in which the developers have taken to modifying the game, improving in the end far more than they have reduced or removed.

2. Specifically Update 2 has brought about a lot of new powers at various levels to mobs, making the game more difficult in accordance with some player demand and obviously as part of a multi-tiered approach to rebalancing the game and the standing of the ATs. Specifically Blasters have been made less easily solo in ways that they did in the past and given more incentive to seek out others who can help them. Some of the changes have been stated by the developers to be overdone and will be rolled back (meaning that part of the "doom and gloom" is truly needless), but part of it is here to stay, meaning that what went before will not necessarily be the best path to follow.

(3) Not being "needed" isn't a sign of uselessness. Do I need a spoon to eat chilli? No, a fork works just as well. Does that mean that I should throw away all more spoons? While Blasters were basking in the limelight, patting themselves on their backs for their power, other ATs were having the discussion of their relative need and the matter has been hashed out several times. "Need" implies requirement, and few want forced grouping. Being an advantageous addition to a group however means that there are reasons for taking you. Sure the group might be able to get by with someone else. . .isn't that what is desired in the first place? That nobody is absolutely needed? The issue is only the matter of the amount of relative advantage.

4. Controllers kicked off the "we're not needed ball" and the developers have been busy working on them (or working them over according to Controllers when a change comes around they don't like--see Fulcrum Shift, Imps, and PA in this last Update) ever since. Scrappers have had their turn at bat more than once, and Tankers are being addressed. Even Defenders have felt the passing of the developers in minor spillovers from elsewhere but like Blasters are waiting their turn for review. Go figure that Blasters would be near or at the tail end. . .the AT clearly didn't have the problems the others had. But given each of the other ATs have been addressed, especially when there was large consensus within the AT that there were AT-wide issues that needed to be addressed, I fail to see how Blasters feel that they are going to get some other treatment if problems are truly identified. That brings me to. . . .

5. The developers have moved at what some in other ATs have felt to be a galacial pace. They don't rush. Defenders literally begged for months for an adjustment to their endurance costs, and in terms of waiting I don't think anyone can trump the Dark Miasma folk who had a third of their powers non-functional and several others subpar from release to this most recent update. Beyond glaringly obvious problems, the developers seem to check, reverify, and then carefully consider what tact to take. So whatever else there is about Update 2 that isn't liked, you probably better be prepared to live with it for the near term becuase rather than hearing upset that things were changed (which is what a lot of it is) they are going to be looking for things that not only no longer work but can't be made to work in any fashion, and that takes some time to establish, especially in light of the fact that rebalancing is being done and some of what can't be done any longer isn't desired to be able to be done any longer.

I think that Blaster remains a fine AT and definitely wouldn't be playing one (and further than I've been able to find interest to do so in the past) now if I felt the AT was a hopeless time sink. In a way you can say I put my money where my mouth is each and every night I login and play my Blaster. I admit this is low level play and that I have not the experience of what certain things feel like from the driver's perspective. But I've been a passenger in the same car as I do play with Blaster players every night who don't evidence any of the concern given on these boards.

In any event, if that doesn't answer your questions feel free to let me know.

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1. I believe that defenders get a larger percentage than others for Manuevers along the lines of 12.5%, not 7.8%. That would be substantial difference.

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Defenders get 12.5% on Tactics, on Leadership there has been no firm statement by a developer beyond the initial statement that Defenders get 25% more on buffs from the power pool than other do. Given the base percentage for Manuever is listed at 6.25%, 1.25*6.5% = 7.8125%.

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2. Played with a same-level Fire/Fire blaster last night on Positron's TF. Six times, he was one-shotted and sent to the hospital. The last two times, we had him refrain from firing until our controller had everyone held, the scrapper had the mobs blocked in a doorway, and everyone was fully bubbled. As soon as the Fire let loose his Rain, he was dead and the mobs overran the scrapper....with the weak defense of the blaster, I truely do see the AT disappearing...

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I managed to stay alive facing multiple +3 level Bosses at one point in one pull (nice and purple to me) last night and shooting with reckless abandon. I very much thank the person providing the heals as well as the other members of the group who performed their parts quite well and didn't seem to have a problem with me hanging back while the Tank ran forward to grab initial aggro while I lined up snipes before running forward to dose the area with a bit of Chilling Embrace.


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3. Defenders, Tanks and Scrappers all take defensive power pool selections to suppliment their already substantial defenses.

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Defender builds posted in the Defender forum rarely contain defensive power pool powers. There is some recent chatting over moving to more given Update 2, but we'll have to see what comes of that.

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Just eliminate the class. To me, they seem worthless already. They are a one-shot wonder. All of their attractiveness lays in their ability to deal mass damage, and that has already disappeared from what I can tell. I don't know what blasters you've been teaming with, but I don't see them doing much of anything.

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If you want to make a character (or just join us) tonight on Justice, drop me a PM. I should be home in roughly two and a half hours. The majority of the group will show up later, but a certain Fire/Fire Blaster should be around and I'm sure she'll be willing to up our usual starting duo to a trio until others can show up.

And really, that should get to the root of the issue. . .I'm willing to invite anyone along (so long as there is room of course) to group with us and see what I'm seeing. Not really a lot of room for debate when we're all in the same place and have the same experience to work with.

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I've called for a Blaster nerf somewhere? My Defender plays just fine and I'm quite comfortable with its desirability in groups, but thank you for the failed attempt at psychoanalysis.


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You heard me and I think you got the point. If not, oh well.

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I saw you make a bunch of crap up. If you can't see that, oh well.

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Why should I have AT envy when I play members of every AT?

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I don't know. You are the psychoanalysis expert. You tell me. Why else are you posting and pissing everyone off?

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I don't seem to be pissing everyone off, just those that want to cry that the end of the AT is upon us.

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My evidence is that I'm out every night in a group team with Blasters who aren't dying in droves like is being portrayed here. They stay alive and I know how my group works. Hmmm, if our Blasters live and you're not. . . .


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Three problems;

1) That is not evidence of what I was talking about at all (soloing);

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Given you entered into an exchange over the nature of grouping an viability in groups, perhaps you'll address that.

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2) That is *percisely* what other AT's don't want to have happen to them (forced teaming)

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Who said anything about forced teaming?

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3) That is only within certain groups, tending towards very specific power-buffed groups. ie: Mandatory class selection.

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Our group is our group. I don't hold it to be anything special and certainly I've worked in others (or other variations of our group depending on who is about).

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If your support for this system is to make us group, then what is utterly unfair is that blasters were turned from soloers (which is why I made my blaster - I have extremely erratic gaming schedules, from 5 minutes to 5 hours, randomly interrupted) into support, then you have destroyed the class that people built on.

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The issue WAS GROUPING. Nobody has said anything about forced grouping.

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I'd say they are no longer overwhelmingly superior units in a group and have had their soloability dropped into line with where others are, but the basic idea is the same.


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False. Tankers and scrappers... and even to some degree, controllers (though that pet change... erg) have higher survival and are now in line with the speed to kill... that is, the time it takes us to find a group we can handle.

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Please read what was written. Did I say anything about survivability? No. I said their soloability was dropped to be in line with others. As to survivability, there seem to be quite a few Blasters claiming that things haven't changed for them.

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So you went sidekicked into a group situation with a lopsided group and died on a mission designed to be specifically extra hard. How is this indicative of more than questionable planning?


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False. This was the first successful group I had. I failed 3 times on test, 4 times on live first.

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Yes, its a hard mission. Members of my supergroup failed the first time on live and succeeded the next time (personally I was tired and had gone to bed before they started), and they indicated it was a difficult mission.

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I did it with my own blaster, with an energy blaster and a fire blaster, in groups of 4 to 8... Friends couldn't do it either... the amount of failures standing outside TV caused crashes on launch night. yet, we four completed it without breaking (their) sweat.

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Good, though that would rather indicate that Blasters aren't at the disadvantage being portrayed.

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The mission is known to be more than run of the mill and that should suggest covering all bases not just loading up with damage classes that have no ability to deal with several of the challenges that you'd normally find on a mission let alone the challenges an extra hard mission is guaranteed to bring.


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Percisely true. Blasters are the ones that aren't needed. They shouldn't have taken me with them, they would of done it faster. We are not, in any way, needed. They probably should have had a fourth scrapper, or maybe a debuffer for decreased kill time.

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While I wasn't there I'm near certain of the group make up that went from our SG and it would have included a Blaster, 2 Tanks, 2 Controllers, and either a third Controller or another Blaster (depending on which character a particular person was playing).

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Know why they took me? They needed someone to shoot the explosives. Sigh. They had done it many times over already... successfully.

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There is a difference between being required and being advantageous. When people pull out the word "needed" they tend to mean more "required" than than "advantageous". I find it to be a good thing that specific ATs are not required, seeing a good player to be an advantage regardless of AT.

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Sleeps are currently broken by heals, but to your group a Sleep was as good as a Hold because neither Scrappers nor Blasters are known for their abilities to heal others. An Empathy Controller/Defender can break Holds, and a Storm Summoning Controller/Defender can immunize you from Sleeps and Disorients.


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There were no sleeps, only disorients (and the occasional hold). I could *not* have been healed. I was insta-killed. I could *not* have been rescued by an empathy because they also would be one hit (no debuff). I could *not* have been saved with only two scrappers because the number of bosses outnumbered the scrappers already by a huge number. They never came close to dying, empathy was useless to them, and me. Tried it already with controllers and defenders, it didn't go nearly as well.

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Our controller heavy team succeeded on their second attempt, which isn't bad for going in completely blind the first time around.



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You seem quite reasonable, but you are still ignoring the underlying theme here.

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SHHHH!!!! They'll brand you a heretic for saying things like that.

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We die. Lots. We died before, tending towards a fair bit (always glossed over because of SG). Min/max characters using TM and FA did just awesome. Now, even they are having problems. Grinding, sure... but outside of that?

Blasters are now support and they aren't fun support, they die all the time and can't survive any status effects.

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Understand please that I'm not saying that Blaster shouldn't be looked at for balance. . .that's not why I first posted in the thread. I take issue with, and continue to do so, the notion that Blasters are planned for obsolescence or are largely there already.

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what did I do to draw the aggro? Attack. which is what I'm supposed to do. and do you seriously expect me to wait around for a radiation defender every damn time I want to play? I think you need to take a look at player demographics. On protector I've run into maybe 2 oir 3 Rad defenders. My Super team is loaded with defenders.... not a single one of them rad defenders.

Besides like I said. semantics. I've been one shotted by all of those things and yes on teams.... where was the defender?

Busy helping other players, missing with the targeted heal effect that steals from mobs, stunned like me, mezzed like me, dead before me, out of endurance... and in some cases just plain incompetent.

You're living in a fantasy world.

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I agree 100%. The real world (described above) is where the rest of us live. I think the issue here is that you don't feel needed in a group. Why don't you address the issue in the defender forum by asking for bonuses to your powers instead of messing with blasters and being a nerf-[censored]?

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I've called for a Blaster nerf somewhere? My Defender plays just fine and I'm quite comfortable with its desirability in groups, but thank you for the failed attempt at psychoanalysis.


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I would fully support most bonuses for defenders. Quit with the AT envy already. You sound like a bunch of whiny 5 year olds who need a nap.

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Why should I have AT envy when I play members of every AT?

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No, but it doesn't take 1 of each AT to succeed. You could have had a Controller or a Defender, or even certain builds of Scrapper. What type of group were you in that had none of these?


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Doesn't matter, any group composition should be viable in my opinion, as well as soloing all the way to 50 if that is your preference.[/QUOTE]

Any group composition IS viable, just not equally in all situations.

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8 blasters
8 defenders
8 tankers
8 scrappers
8 controllers

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Each has their merits and their weak points and you have to play to those if you want to do well or you have to adjust your group. Your choice.

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Volleys from things that take lethal damage don't score damage on you. Several times I drop things and then their attack goes off. . .and I lose no health despite their weapon firing or their ball of fire landing.

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I am specifically speaking of my ATs (AR) AoEs which are all ticks. Flamethrower, Full Auto. Long animation times and tick damage. Thus they always get a volley off on my AoE.

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Fair enough. That is a drawback with DoTs, ostensibly balanced by them tending to do more damage.

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And again you are presuming we have a tanker with an AoE taunt or a controller in my group.

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No, I'm presuming you've made a group that contains more than Blasters.

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Do you really want to go down the path of EQ and say that every group must have 1 of each AT to suceed?

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No, but it doesn't take 1 of each AT to succeed. You could have had a Controller or a Defender, or even certain builds of Scrapper. What type of group were you in that had none of these?

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If you want to go down that path fine. But I've been in that world and I don't like it.

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Red herring.

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You got the wrong guy erratdork. I never said I'm the first one down.

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Oh dear me, did I give you a reply? You clearly aren't deserving. . .I'll make sure that doesn't happen again.

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*** You are ignoring this user ***


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If you haven't played a blaster that is 35+ since update two, you will have to put up some evidence to support your opinions.

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My evidence is that I'm out every night in a group team with Blasters who aren't dying in droves like is being portrayed here. They stay alive and I know how my group works. Hmmm, if our Blasters live and you're not. . . .

I do not disagree with much if any of what you subsequently write. The key line being:

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Blasters are now support units.

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I'd say they are no longer overwhelmingly superior units in a group and have had their soloability dropped into line with where others are, but the basic idea is the same.

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We did the lvl 34-44 Respec trial (freakshow). I was sidekicked up to 39. It was me and three scrappers. I was the only one to die... 4 times. Every single one of them was a 'one hit dead'.

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So you went sidekicked into a group situation with a lopsided group and died on a mission designed to be specifically extra hard. How is this indicative of more than questionable planning? The mission is known to be more than run of the mill and that should suggest covering all bases not just loading up with damage classes that have no ability to deal with several of the challenges that you'd normally find on a mission let alone the challenges an extra hard mission is guaranteed to bring. Sleeps are currently broken by heals, but to your group a Sleep was as good as a Hold because neither Scrappers nor Blasters are known for their abilities to heal others. An Empathy Controller/Defender can break Holds, and a Storm Summoning Controller/Defender can immunize you from Sleeps and Disorients.

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Or did you wait until the Tanker had run forward and Provoked?

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Do you want only group with a provoke tanker to succeed? Great, here we come EQ Tanker, Mezzer, Healer.

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No. I group with all sorts of people who have talents in locking down aggro or mitigating it. A Controller can drop a wide area hold and gee, you're safe to AE all you want. A Defender can do various things to increase your safety as well. Doesn't require a tanker, requires you being a team player.

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If we properly manage aggro, you wouldn't even want us in your group.

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Despite the repeated assertion, I can't recall ever seeing a Blaster kicked from a group for not dealing sufficient damage. For being reckless, yes. For being a jerk, yes. But for not using his AE as soon as possible? Never. For picking when it is best to take a shot? Nope.

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I'm really beginning to think you haven't played a high level blaster.

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Where have I ever claimed to?

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It's true if I don't use any AoEs I don't suffer much damage.

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Not something I suggested.

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But then again I'm not outputting much either am I?

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Does it kill you to let the Tank go forward and lock down aggro? Can you not wait the few seconds for the Controller to slap a hold on the entire lot? At NO point did I suggest not using your AEs, don't try to claim otherwise.

You want to talk about what you're beginning to think? Well I'm beginning to think you didn't read what I wrote and made up all sorts of things that you can't find a quotation for.

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Those ranged attacks can kill me in 1 volley. They get a return volley whther my AoE is going to kill them or not.

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Volleys from things that take lethal damage don't score damage on you. Several times I drop things and then their attack goes off. . .and I lose no health despite their weapon firing or their ball of fire landing.

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what did I do to draw the aggro? Attack. which is what I'm supposed to do.

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Don't be mindless. It is more than just your attack, its when you attacked and some other factors that come into play. You lead the attack on the spawn with Fireball? Or did you wait until the Tanker had run forward and Provoked?

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and do you seriously expect me to wait around for a radiation defender every damn time I want to play?

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No, I expect that in a group you will rely on other's abilities to stay alive, not mindless go charging in. Don't attempt to twist my words that way.

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I think you need to take a look at player demographics. On protector I've run into maybe 2 oir 3 Rad defenders.

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Almost any Defender other than an Empathy one can provide you protections of various sorts. Force Field is very good at keeping people from getting hit. Kinetics is flawless at keeping things from getting to melee range. Storm Summoning? Barrier to passage and reduced range keeps melee and ranged shots from being as much of a threat. And that is not all the other types than Emapthy nor all those types can do. And the abilities are duplicated by Controllers (though in a weaker way).

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My Super team is loaded with defenders.... not a single one of them rad defenders.

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Let me guess. . .a bunch of Empathy types no doubt. (*grumbles*)

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Besides like I said. semantics. I've been one shotted by all of those things and yes on teams.... where was the defender?

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Where you left him.

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Busy helping other players, missing with the targeted heal effect that steals from mobs, stunned like me, mezzed like me, dead before me, out of endurance... and in some cases just plain incompetent.

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He he is mezzed with you and dead like you then your claims of being the first one down don't stand up--you've got company that is dying just as quickly as you are.

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In practical terms the only time 2 defenders will cap you def is when you have 2 force fielders. That isn’t common. There are far more ways to cap a SR scrappers def. There is also a lot of consensus that SR needs some form of resist despite this.

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That is because the Scrapper is going into the middle of a spawn and facing all the aggro found there, something that a Blaster shouldn't generally be doing.

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So a blaster shouldn't use any of their AoEs in a group setting either, since that draws all the aggro.

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No, that is not true:

(1) The Scrapper is facing melee damage as opposed to the ranged replies a Blaster is going to receive. Melee damage is a lot larger.

(2) AE becomes considerably safer once aggro has been taken by others. It deals less damage than single target attacks (barring the level 32 powers) and so isn't particularly likely to steal it away from something being pounded on individually by another.

(3) In a group situation both fare better by being able to rely on the support of others.

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In practical terms the only time 2 defenders will cap you def is when you have 2 force fielders. That isn’t common. There are far more ways to cap a SR scrappers def. There is also a lot of consensus that SR needs some form of resist despite this.

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That is because the Scrapper is going into the middle of a spawn and facing all the aggro found there, something that a Blaster shouldn't generally be doing.

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you can debuff all you want pal...

I've been one shotted by

Tsoo bosses
Tsoo ancient spirits
Paragon Protectors (all flavors)
Tank swipers
Tank smashers
Greater devoured
Lesser devoured
Fake Nems
Rikti Chief soldiers
Rikti Chief Mentalist
RIkti Chief mesmerist
Knives of Artemis bosses...

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In groups you've been one-shotted by those things?

The same Radiation Infection that allows me to stand in front of a Paragon Protector and remove his endurance and then kill him at my leisure provides the same protection to you. In a group where others are doing their jobs one-shotting should be an incredible rarity.

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This list goes on. And by the way If a salvo from four nemesis Lt's drops you to 0 life at once how is that any different from a one shot kill?

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It being four shots. What did you do to get aggro from four nemesis is what you should be analyzing.

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IF the salvo does 1200 pts of damage and my life point total is 900 I'm dead.

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And had Enervating Field been applied that total would have been 840 and you'd have lived long enough to attempt to run (one reason I love Super Speed) and for others to attempt to heal.

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They are if you have to worry about dying to the extent that you're portraying. So which is it, are they incompetent or are you exaggerating?


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This is what’s known as a false dilemma. Neither of these things have to be the case, and in fact the real answer is that you are simply wrong in your assertion.

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Such a construct is often advanced in a form that fits false dichotomy but you were the ones laying out the possibilities. If it is a false dichotomy then it is one of your making.

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Which is it going to be Moridin_, that it is utterly unsafe and you're risking death as the Blaster or that you are perfectly safe? Allow me to remind you of your own words:


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It’s safe because everyone does their job properly, but the instant one person screws up, even me, I die. No one else, just me get it?

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If by screwing up you mean things like failing to buff before hand, then you may have a point, but that gets back to the competency of the group.

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Clearly you are not familiar with the concept of streak breakers…

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Streak breakers have essentially been disproven to make more than several points of a percentage diff in ACC. It's even lower the better your DEF. Because the streak breaker increase the number of misses before it activates. So at really high DEF, it might take 30 misses before something gets the streak breaker, most things don't live that long.


Sorry to butt in on your debate, but just wanted to throw that info out there.

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Umm what was your point there? Just to keep you up to date the discussion was about whether a defender can keep you alive by just increasing your def. When things can 1 hit you streak breakers mean you die once for every 20 times they attack you no matter how high your def is.

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You're massively overplaying what can one-shot you in the game. Most things can't that any group is going to fight. Two shot you? Yep. But few things do one-shots (like say the Kraken in the Sewer Trial) and the number decreases when the Defender is not only making you harder to hit but also DEBUFFING THE DAMAGE the mobs can deal.

In 40 levels as a Defender, one who runs into the middle of spawns and stands there to AE, and having the EXACT SAME HPS AS A BLASTER MY LEVEL I can count the number of times I've been one-shot on the fingers of one hand (the aforementioned Kraken and right after Update 2 release when Rikti were doing double damage). It generally requires fighting things that are deeply purple to get to such damage, and as you and Punisher2020 have been claiming, you're always at the top level in your group so you can be useful. . .perhaps you shouldn't be fighting deep purples, especially when the other leeching members of your group see them as so ultraviolet as to be black.