EmpireForgotten
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Posts
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Joined
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I was actually thinking of ways to make this post better, let me know what you think:
1. Shu and Osha reup their accounts and have an old fashioned Forum PvP duel
2. Same Forum PvP, but its zeta vs Osha instead
3. Tremere makes an appearance
4. TonyV comes to defend the honor of the OP -
Quote:Originally Posted by Dahjee
If I had a dime for every time a forum go'er asks about a possible PvP toon only to be told the toon will suck.... so reroll it....
Or for every time someone is told that X doesn't work anymore because of I13.
Or perhaps a nickel for every time some one snarks in disbelief at someone for doing something with a build that they wern't able to do.
I could go on... but I'm not that invested in this thread. I guess my point is that the PvP community as far as I and many who visit the forums can tell is kinda well... close minded and rude. I gather this from noticing that no one ever seems to be without a jerk remark, and the fact that nothing new is ever introduced here on the PvP forums...just the same ol' same ol' that comes from what I can only guess as years of doin the same thing over and over... no matter what set/set combo. copy paste rinse repeat... call yourself a winner!
Yeah questions do get answered. With the same stale info that circulates among all of about 10 people. There is a mis-education in progress here.
Bitter justifications for the staleness that is forum PvP to follow I'm sure. Blame it on the numbers?
Srs RL story here
I work in a an environment where my manager is 10 hours away and no one in my building has any clue what I do. I get a lot of suggestions from other co-workers asking why we don't do things a certain way or "I saw this on TV and I want to do this here too" and they kinda get upset when I tell them that it can't be done.
If you do something regularly and you think about strategies regularly, you will find that you have a greater understanding of certain areas. You will also find it mildly insulting when someone says your advice/suggestions are wrong when you have tested them before or have insight into how they work together.
In the end, if your expectations or definitions of success and successful are different than mine, then we might disagree on certain areas of PvP in this game. The suggestions I see Mac and others give to people are based on the assumption that said player is playing to win and wants to be successful. If that said person is looking for an 'ataboy' by playing substandard or different, then I can see where we might come off as rude and closed minded. -
This thread is amazing.
You have an epic story of a dude who sold a SG and then still wants to make it bigger - thus gaining someone elses money AND the benefits of a larger SG. Then you got an amazing tale of epic posts flaming said dude. Then you got even more epicness by demanding apologies (lol)
How can this post get any better? seriously? -
Quote:I don't know about other emps...but People that fly don't get buffsOriginally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
Also, if I had a dime for everytime someone says "lol flying pbs lol" as they type it from the hospital. -
Quote:give in to the nerd rage s0nOriginally Posted by Galactor
Sure. I make mistakes, this probably won't be the last one, but I'd like to learn from it and improve.
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I wouldn't mind a month long league to get people into the arena more and hopefully teams are formed, but it should just end as that. A Ladder, should one ever arise, needs to be made of pre-assembled teams. Just because people are new doesn't mean they should just be put with the upper teams.
There are probably a lot of unteamed people that I don't know that are better than most of the dUmb roster, but I wouldn't want them on my team. Its nothing personal, I just like PvPing with people I know. When we joined the test ladder back in the Day, we didn't join up with an upper level team for a month or two to learn - we just played. We got stomped more often than not, but we learned as a team and grew as a team.
Anyways, are there even going to be enough people willing to captain a League format? -
1. @Slax, @Slax2
2. @Welldone
pi. @EmpireForgotten
3. @Mac, @Not Mac
4. @Sir, @burner one
5. @Panthro
6. @Trance
7. @Mr. Liberty
8. @Stoney @the other Stoney
9. @Neuronia
10. @Jkwervo
11. @Smilin Joe
12. @Gabriella of Mercy
14. @Blokey
15. @Ready for War
Updating Roster Thread for Slax.
Previous last update was on Oct 2nd 08...6 days before the world ended. -
So far on Freedom, all I have seen is zone stuff with the occational fiteclub request in arena channel.
When do kickball matches usually take place? -
...What if I want you to be rude to me?
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we really need to get an official going. If we can generate enough hype in the arena channel here to get people to come watch, maybe we can get more participants.
Im sure we'll get our pants smashed off..but it could be interesting -
Quote:You can be on our team if you wantOriginally Posted by RoboBug
so can i sign up? i'll play my ff/elec def, sonic/sonic def rad/ice def or my ice/ice blaster
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Quote:Still reading away at this whole thread. Some makes complete sense, other spots make me facepalm. I did want to QR comment to this post though:Originally Posted by Amerikatt
Next PuG I'm in, I'll just say, "I want to get the exploration badges from (name of PvP zone), so how about the 7 of you go along with me and put yourselves at risk? Reiraku said it was okay". I'm sure that would go over *very* well.
My SG has helped several badger only people get the RV badges for killing signature heroes/villains. We aren't the best, but we know how to PvP and we help out here when we can. People want to come into the zone to farm our friends getting the badges? Great! more action for me! They may get one or two of them, but Im sure I will have fun and my friends will end up getting their badges (And probably have a good time in the process as well)
At the end of the day - PvP isn't for everyone. Some people have problems losing. Some have problems not being the best at something. Finally, some people don't want to have to invest a lot of time or effect to be good at something that they might only do occasionally.
My group is like many others in a PvP zone. We are there to PvP. We don't really enjoy farming the same person over and over again who obviously just wants the badges there.
Just once, I would like to see said badger ask us if we would switch to villains and help them get the badges themselves. Instead, we (The hated PvP Community) get hit with flames.
Ive seen several posters say that they would PvP if the community gave respect. I've also been on the receiving end of Horrible comments from the "Casual" Crowd or the badgers. Why would I respect someone who sits their and insults me after they've just lost? -
Quote:I agree. I also think that this won't happen to muchOriginally Posted by black_barrier
even though i know saying this is gonna come back and bite me in the ***, i'm gonna go with yes.
toggles don't have infinite range.
10 seconds is still enough time to run as hell and break try to break those toggles.
contrary to what most people think, Most PvPers are dicks. So this shouldn't be an issue.
I also think that if you have time to waste stacking slows on a recently killed person instead of trying to kill someone actually live - then that means that you are rolling the other team anyways. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Pyroguy
Thank you empire
i had no idea the devs had...uh...."fixed" so many things. Honestly, i wouldn't touch pvp now in its current state. That being said,
Respectfully, i feel that
The general opinion i see here is that people feel that pvp should be taken out back and shot, or left to die, which is kinda sad thats the devs have gotten it to that point, as there is potential for some really cool ways for it to be used.
I remember when the arena first came out, which was issue 4 if i recall, not too far into the games development. Cool! Neat! everyone said. fighting each other was fun, back in the day, albeit unbalanced.
But then nothing was ever really done with it, it was just kind of there. Same with CoV. it launched, everyone had their day beating up vils and heroes alike, some "balancing" was done, and then the majority lost interest, either because they're blaster or controller couldn't kill a stalker/scrapper or brute/tanker (which is kinda like trying to kill an elephant with a bag of stones, and IMO should have been left the way it was, there are some things you just don't try to do as a certain AT) leading to the wretched state its in now. Why?
I am a hardcore PvE player, as i have stated before, But the idea of pvp really appeals to me. I think quite a bit of really awesome dynamics and content could be achieved thru the use of the pvp system. What about a mayhem or a safeguard where you try and stop another players rampaging villain or do-gooder hero? What about cross faction team battles?
Honestly, the OP's original idea is pretty intriguing to me, but just adding more stuff you can only get there just doesn't work, and really, that's the only incentive to go to one of these zones that anyone can seem to come up with right now. While i agree in some respects with the concept of having your character go to a pvp zone while leveling up, it cannot be forced upon people in any way, and some would view that as being forced. There already are "go see this security guy in xpvpzonex" missions to try and immerse you, There already are badges and IO's that you can only get from pvp zones, and they are generally hated.
Until pvp is fun and worth it, it will never, ever, be touched frequently by most players. With utmost respect, Cryon, you have some good ideas, i will give you that. But the core of your idea to come get people to pvp (the faction controllable stores) wont work. its just like adding pvp IO's.
The best thing i can think of IMO to "fix/revamp/resurrect" pvp, is to first, listen to the damn players and to their ideas (at least the ones who can coherently discuss it ) Come up with actual incentives to come and pvp, and then strip it down to what it was arena level, and build it up again slowly, issue by issue, listening to the players, and building a new system. This band-aid crap doesn't and will never work. Would there be outlash? you bet. Will it happen? Most likely not.
But what else is there to do but wipe the slate clean?
PvP in this game has always been an oddity. There are several reasons why I think it didn't take off, but the two main ones was the unbalanced nature of certain powersets (IE my Cool neato Superman clone gets absolutely destroyed) and the intense speed at which the action happened. City of Heroes was, and still is, the fastest MMO PvP engine available. Most MMOs only have horizontal movement for their PvP, City of Heroes had Omnidirectional action.
The problem, or benefit in my opinion, with the fast nature of PvP is that it created a competitive game with a very Large Skill Gap. This meant that if you worked hard, practiced, and actually learned something from your beatings, you would then eventually be able to compete.
Most people were either turned off at how quickly they were destroyed or were turned off by the attitudes of the people that destroyed them. Either way, these people didn't really feel the need to expand their knowledge of the system to try and adapt to the challenges they were facing.
My experience with the old PvP started out this way. When I was leveling up my tank, I would get absolutely destroyed by stalkers in Sirens. It wasn't until I joined a group that PvP'd regularly for fun - just 1v1s or team matches against each other. That I was able to refine my tactics and learn where I failed the first time. But, it took a lot of work and like-minded people who ended up learning as they went. Our group turned a lot of people who hate PvP into an activity that they enjoyed towards the end of i12. We would base raid and had lots of fun. There were several comments from people saying how they never though PvP in this game could be so fun and indepth.
PvP 2.0, IMO, took the game in the wrong direction. I personally think that all rulesets should be completely reverted to the PvE settings. The experiment from i13-i16 was a good way to learn how not to implement changes. Its good sometimes to learn what doesn't work. Perhaps we can take what we have learned from these past couple issues and fix the true problem with PvP in this game.
Here's a short list of problems that existed in the old (And most still exist in the new) PvP:
1. Melee is unusable outside of stalkers
2. Certain powers are required to PvP
3. Certain powersets are completely worthless to PvP with
4. Concept builds, even in the hands of a competent PvPer, still get destroyed.
Ive offered up several suggestions on how to fix the old, there is a good running list on the PvP boards started by MacSkull.
At this stage, I think any changes to PvP to allow me to enjoy it again won't happen. And that makes me a sad panda
TL
R - Fix the PvP Engine before you add Rims to the Car
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Quote:Originally Posted by black_barrier
yup.
sudden death should be ignored.
as to spawn camping; with the new spawn rules,you're not affectable for a set time after you respawn and you can move around. even if there's a full storm team camped at your spawn point, you will have the time to toggle on defensive shields, travel powers and gtfo.
spawn camping, as present in pre-i13 pvp no longer exists.
I agree with this, but Im playing devils advocate. If you spawn and are unaffected, Can't I just toggle on Rad/Storm/Dark toggles and then have them auto wreck you when you become effected?
Also, Im not leading dUmb's endeavor for this ladder, but I also agree that Sudden death should be ignored. The mechanics are retarded and force a more fiteclub atmosphere. If it's tied at the end of 10, just quit out and relist. -
Quick follow up questions:
Rule:
Quote:Does this mean that a team can disconnect indefinite times and not be penalized or do we only allow 1 disconnect per round?In the event of a disconnect, a team has 90 seconds of a 10 minute match or 3 minutes of a 20 minute match to report such and request a restart. The opposing team must oblige if it is within this time frame. If a disconnect takes place after this time frame, then the match is to continue and it is scored as an official match.
Can we remove this until we get more teams on the ladder? It seems pointless to fight an official every 2 weeks with only 3 teams on the ladderQuote:If a group is inactive for more than two months they are to be removed from the ladder.
We need a definition of spawn camping if this is to be a rule. Our group has been known to camp people in hibernate, which may be viewed as spawn camping by other leaders watch the match.Quote:Spawn camping will not be permitted and will be an automatic forfeit for the guilty team. Enforcement of this rule will be judged by video proof and/or leaders from other groups watching the match.
That's it. Lets try to have as much fun as possible -
Quote:I might have to try to find some dUmb stormie matches...those were funny to watchOriginally Posted by TrancEnding
Lmfao with the team massacred @ 1:13
Haven't muched liked watching too many vids with the poor quality but that was stupid funny.
Thanks for the post. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Pyroguy
i agree, actually.
But something does need to be done. i can see now that having pvp only rewards, in effect, is a bad idea, but without them, i really dont see any way to add a point to going and pvping, other than for having a new experience in game. and if there is never a point, minus adding zone-only items (as theyve already tried) i think the devs are SOL
If someone can refresh my memory, what was implemented in i13 that changed pvp? just the IO enhancements?
Oh Man! There's a can of worms.
Several things were changed in i13, not all of them bad - but most.
1. Diminishing returns - Damage/Acc/Def/Resistance/Heals All have Diminishing returns on them. To put it like this: My invul tank running Unstoppable + Arch Mage + Psi Accolade + all my toggles puts me at about 55 Resist to all.
2. Supression - In short, every attack causes you to move at a snails pace and every attack that hits you causes you to move at a snails pace. Heals also supress movement
3. Damage normalization - Not a BAD idea, but completely implemented wrong. All attacks were modified to have the same DPA. So, long casting attacks do a lot of damage and quick firing attacks do little. This lead to powers like Flurry or Jumpkick having more damage than Blaze. Also, Ice Blast and Flairs have more damage than their Tier 6 powers, Bitter Ice Blast and Blaze.
4. Mez Protection removed and replaced with resistance. This turns everyone into a controller because any mez done by any AT will mez everyone. Mezzes also only last about 2-8 seconds..depending on if they are powerboosted or done by a dominator. There is no blocking the mez effect, you are basically stuck in place for X ammount of time until you die or phase.
Misc. Items -Range cap boosted, -Slow cap boosted, Fly now has to be debuffed with multiple webnades/powers to be grounded, Villain epics changed to have more useful powers, Blasters 10%unresistable damage removed, Defender unresistable debuffs removed, The only unresisted damage is Stalker Crits (As far as I know). Assassins strike nerfed in damage.
Thats all I can think of. -
*Disclaimer* (Seems everyone should post this to not have the OP get his shorts in a bunch) I play both sides regularly
I am against allowing the control of the spawn. But I think if you can't control the spawn, just like hero side, it should act just like hero side.
I think that once the GM spawns, it should remain active until its destroyed. Allow it to stop at its four stops in a pre-set pattern until taken down. -
Quote:This.Originally Posted by IanTheM1
Portal-spawned Rikti stopped giving XP quite some time prior to the AE being introduced, IIRC.
The Portal Exploit was a level 35 could go into the RWZ and aggro the comm officers and just barely damage the portal to get full xp once the portal despawn'd. The XP was massive if I recall correctly. To compesate for this, comm officers were given LT level xp while being minion level difficulty.
Fast forward to AE. People were making missions full of rikti comm officers and were getting LT level xp for Minion level mobs, it was quite easy to Fire/Kin your way to 50. -
Quote:Originally Posted by TrueDarkLord
coments
That is all -
Quote:Unless they have changed something, they do lower your Mez protection in PvP. I also thought it works on AVs as well. I don't have numbers, but you can hold Rommy through triangles a lot easier with a cold than without.Originally Posted by Oathbound
Neither of those modifies mez magnitude in any way.
They're both a sort of Negative Power Boost. They debuff the duration of any Sleeps/Holds/Stuns/etc that your target uses after hit with the power. It doesn't alter the magnitude of those mezzes, and it doesn't alter the mob's mez protection any. -
Id love to see how much glue arrow/Caltrops/Snowstorms we can get on the people waiting at the starting line of the zone race.
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Quote:Or is there?Originally Posted by Supermax
"Once you have climbed the mountain of WoW, there is no descent."
-Confucious
http://www.destructoid.com/man-beats...t-156593.phtml -
1. WP
2. Stone
3. Ice/Invul - can cap HP
Not sure if I like Shield and both Fire and Dark Armor don't have KB protection so they are a buzz kill.