EarthWyrm

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The fun of badges is in the earning not in the chasing. 30 days on offline badges pushing the earnings so far apart as to be unnoticable, thus they're not a very fun badge concept.

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I just wanted to say that this is the best argument I've seen against the 30-day decision. Vet badges aren't fun, they're milestones; if these are supposed to be fun, they need to be moved a little further away from the award latencies of Vet badges. That is, something that can be measured in weeks (2-3) rather than months.

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A good number of the badgers out there are 100% completionists--or at least we'd like to be.

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Hardcore badgers are a minority, statistically, in the game. The 100% completionist hardcore badgers are a minority of a minority. I mean, just looking at Badge-Hunter's stats, there are better than 58,500 characters registered. So let's say, for the sake of argument, that this is a good representation of characters that's likely to include the hardcore badgers.

Because we have to set a cut-off, let's say that we can define someone as a 100% completist if they currently have at least 90% of the badges available on their side. For heroes, this gives us 385 characters with at least 532 badges out of 592. For villains, this gives us 133 characters with at least 463 out of 515 badges. So we have 385+133 = 518 characters that have at least 90% of the badges on their respective sides. That's less than 1% of the registered characters on the website, who should reflect the most dedicated, hardcore, competitive badgers.

You can quibble with my choice of cut-offs (or the fact that the database probably includes characters for people who've long since quit the game when the badge cap was much lower, or the fact that I subtracted 60 instead of 59.2 ) if you like, but we're talking a small percent of a small percent here. It's not that your voices aren't important, it's that they aren't proportionally *more* important than any other small percent of a small percent. Badges are available to everyone, after all, and making a decision about them to satisfy a pretty small group of hardcore collectors doesn't seem like it would be the best path for the devs to take.

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True enough, but badges were designed to be an accomplishment for doing something in the game.

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This was demonstrably untrue even before vet rewards. As soon as they gave one-time awards of badges for events where all you had to do was log in, or where you got a special badge when you bought a certain product, badges stopped being "an accomplishment for doing something in the game" and started being "a reward we can use in a variety of fashions."

I happen to like the proposed implementation. I wouldn't mind a shorter time-frame, but given that a character can become a "Professor" in 30 days, while it took me 14.5 years of higher education and work just to get to be a rank below "Professor," 30 days doesn't seem that bad.

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He was referring to Venture, with whom you appear to share a birthday. He's been particularly virulent and pompous in his replies. He'll prolly make my ignore list too by the end of the day. I'd prolly do well in avoiding his home server too, if this is any indication of what to find there. :P

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Venture is Venture. He's not, as near as I can tell, quite like anyone else, and his style doesn't typify anywhere I've been in the game (I mainly play on Virtue, where he's a mod of one of the big global channels).

I don't always appreciate the way he approaches dialogue on the internet, but I'll be damned if the man isn't consistent. I just figured out this afternoon that he was able to consistently make me angry on the Usenet 13-14 years ago.

That being said, I agree with a meaningful chunk of what he's said to Chad. Now that Chad's taken a step back and seems to be mainly advocating shorter time requirements for the badges, though, I think discussions of his OCD have stopped being relevant.

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My things is honestly that this is directed at badgers and its basically makes their mains detrimental to play. So fine, I'll keep my favorite toon thats also my badger perma-loged off. Probably start playing that new other COH knock off coming out, until I wonder why I'm paying for something that I get annoyed at for not really being able to play the toon I wanna.

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I think people need to wait and see how the implementation of this is done. I really don't think that you have to have 30 uninterrupted days of not logging in your character to earn the badge. In fact, I doubt that you have to have 30 single 24-hour consecutive periods where you don't log in the character, based on the wording of the announcement.

Most people don't spend 23.75 out of every 24 hours logged in with one character (to pick the most extreme example from this discussion). All the time that character is logged out, I would guess, will be counting, provided the character is positioned in the right place.

I don't think anyone is going to have to give up anything meaningful to get these badges, unless they absolutely have to get them as fast as possible. And I'll admit that I can't find much to sympathize with in that desire.

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I am surprised over and over at how much people complain. This is suppose to be a mini-game to play while ur logged out. Not somethin u have to do as fast as possible, its extra stuff. Why does everyone want everythin instantly? I hear people complain about how that ruined other games becuase of people wantin everythin now now. Calm down it suppose to take time to get rewards, why dont u just complain it takes a year to get the 12 month badge and how bout the devs make it only 6 months while ur all at it. I think this is a sweet thing to add that gives us somethin in which we used to get nothin, not playin.

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A mini game? I didn't know I was playing WHILE I AM LOGGED OFF!

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Wait, this all happens while you're logged off? Man, I totally missed that. That changes everything. I mean, rewards for time that I'm kinda paying for anyway but could never use because I lack the commitment to be logged in all day, every day? I would have totally not gotten that without your clever use of the CAPS LOCK key.




(Or, to be serious... I think that everyone understands that it is a reward for time that you aren't logged in, and shouting something that was contained in the information that you quoted was unnecessary. I get some of the negative reactions to this, based on the time frame that's been proposed, but to complain about being rewarded for time you aren't using the service is just about the epitome of looking a gift horse in the mouth, to me. As such, while I wouldn't be bothered if they knocked 5-10 days off the total time to earn each badge, I honestly don't understand the level of vitriol being exhibited over this proposed implementation. The system isn't going to be scrapped entirely, the badges aren't going to be removed now that they've included them in a press release, so the feedback should center on the mechanics and not waste time critiquing the idea itself.)

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The thing with guides is that people read them and don't think about them.

For instance, in this thread the importance of not having Tactics on, to prevent Katie from aggro'ing the mobs, has been pointed out. Which is fine, in and of itself.

But I had people jump on my case to turn off tactics when I was standing at the top of the hill by the mission door, not even thinking about going to rescue Katie.

I pointed out that I was nowhere near Katie, and as such, running tactics was irrelevant. (Plus, there's the issue of surrounding teammates - or me - not being blinded when an ambush runs over and a boss tosses a gnome onto their head.)

The response?

"Pls turn off tactics."

Even the argument of, "When she gets in range, it may affect her," doesn't really hold up, since Tactics only has a 60-foot radius, and the fight had moved up to the tree on the hill by the time Katie was anywhere near the door. Unless the person dragging her was flying within 60 feet of the ground (which I doubt - her natural aggro radius is big enough that 60 feet is going to get her shooting at things), tactics is STILL irrelevant.

I did go ahead and shut it off, because I prefer to play nice with others (and when people decide to dig in their heels about something irrelevant - like the possibility of Katie somehow aggro'ing on an ambush when she gets within 60 feet of the mission entrance, if I'm standing all the way back there - I have better ways to spend my time than explaining why they're wrong), but I was thankful that we have the Player Notes feature so that I could remind myself later who these folks were.

People need to THINK about what they read in guides. Yes, Airman's method works predictably well. It's not the only way that works, though, and I've been on plenty of PUG Katies that had no trouble coming in under 30 minutes, even with multiple melee toons in tow.

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What you want is the equivalent of a free lottery ticket every time you deposit money in the bank. That may sound great to you, but it creates a system that's skewed in such a way that the rich (the people who can run TFs all the time) continue to get even richer, while the poor find themselves even further disadvantaged.

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This is simply untrue. While such a system would indeed make the rich even richer, the poor would also be richer as they too would be getting more from each task force they play.

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I'm sorry, you're not allowed to pretend I said something that I didn't. I did not say the poor would not get richer. I said they would be further disadvantaged. Even if they get richer, the rich are getting richer at a faster rate, and therefore continue to have greater market leverage and easier access to goods due to their greater bankrolls.

Would your system even make a difference to someone who only TFs, say, 1 time a week? I don't think such a person would see an appreciable difference in rewards under the system you advocate from what we have now. They get their random drop that they would have gotten under the current system, and maybe get merits equal to 1/20 of a "choice" drop. So, 4.5 months later, they get to pick from the wall o' prizes.

Of course there are assumptions embedded in these numbers (probably optimistic, given what Posi said about how many merits it takes to buy a "choice" recipe, relative to how long it would take to get one by chance), but for the person who doesn't play many TFs, the change is not all that noticeable. In my mind, someone this casual shouldn't use TFs to get merits to begin with and should pick something that awards them more in concert with the individual's playing style. It's very much my hope that the merit system will allow this to happen.

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I would prefer the random drop AND credit system.

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And I think it would have the potential to be horribly abusable. It's not like we have ever been given the option of taking a random drop and a specific SO for these things, why would we expect merits to work any differently?

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Would those who farm tf's and play coh all day become ridiculously wealthy under such a system? Yes. But as of now, the io/recipe part of the game is not as accessable to the casual player as it should be imo.

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The solution is not to double-reward TFs. It's to reward lots of things other than TFs with merits, so that people who can't do TFs suddenly have access to the rewards they were previously locked out of. If you make TFs double-rewards, that only increases farming. If you want to be more casual-friendly, make sure regular missions and arcs award merits.

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I play almost every day and I find it frustrating to be able to io out my characters without grinding or farming, and thats not a good thing. If I were a casual gamer, I probably wouldn't play this game at all.

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You aren't a casual gamer, you do play the game, and lots of casual players still play the game despite the issues you have with it. I have a problem accepting your argument, as such.

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Making features more easily accessable to the casual gamer will increase this games attractiveness to everyone. Making tf's more rewarding is a start.

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Again, there are lots of ways to make loot more accessible without suddenly creating a double-reward scenario that benefits people with specific playstyles and SG memberships. Making TFs more rewarding doesn't start anything except more farming, and would be a horrifically short-sighted thing for the devs to do. There are far better ways to do what you seem to want to do.

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Next, I would suggest improving drops on teams and creating rewards for pvp play while reworking pvp to make it more accessable to all at's.

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Is it a forum requirement that I include "lolpvp" at this point?

Agreed on the drops on teams, btw. That's just silly. Rewarding people for not-teaming is a system that I've never been able to get behind, and that's what the current drop system does for ATs that deal meaningful damage.

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Task Force Recipe Merits should be in addition to the original TF rewards as opposed to instead of them, shouldn't they?

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In my opinion? No.

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I mean, they're there to allow people who get crap recipes over and over again to actually get something *good* once in a friggin while.

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No they aren't. They're there to allow people to avoid the uncertainty of random drops by saving up credits from what they've done. The situation you describe would allow people to both save up to get something good, and randomly get good stuff once in a while. If you get the benefits of the randomness in addition to the guaranteed eventual reward, the system is skewed.

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How many times have you been to a place, bought something and they give you a punch card to fill up on your next visits to get something free?

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Plenty. In none of those cases, however, did I walk in and say, "I'd like to buy something at random. Please give me whatever random item those dice you have sitting beside the register tell you I should get."

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Buy 5 more sandwiches and your 6th one is on us! That's the idea, not "Come to our store, pay for a sandwich, don't actually GET a sandwich, but instead receive this token which, if you are stupid enough to visit us again and again, will give you enough tokens so that you can get a really good sandwich a few days from now." Wha?

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Let's try a different analogy that makes more sense. Say that you wanted to buy a house. (Picking a house because it's a big-ticket item that a lot of folks have trouble affording; feel free to substitute "yacht," "Porsche," or "Angelina Jolie" if you prefer.)

There are two ways that you see to go about getting the money to do this. One is to play the lottery repeatedly. People win, after all, and if you win, you'll have the money to buy a house. If you play the lottery, you're probably going to have to throw a lot of money at it, because it's pretty low-probability, so you won't be able to save up for the house. But that's okay, because you're pretty sure that the lottery will eventually pay out.

The second is to save your money. Go to your job, do your thing, put money in the bank. It will take a while, but you'll eventually get what you want. Guaranteed.

What you want is the equivalent of a free lottery ticket every time you deposit money in the bank. That may sound great to you, but it creates a system that's skewed in such a way that the rich (the people who can run TFs all the time) continue to get even richer, while the poor find themselves even further disadvantaged.

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I think I've figured out why I'm so underwhelmed by this announcement.

Since the release of i12, all the devs have been letting us know that they're working on UBER L33T STUFF that will be both TOP SECRET and HIGHLY AWESOME.

Only to find out that we're getting:

<snip>

Basically, nothing exciting that blew me away, a bunch of old news, and some zone stuff I probably won't use anyway.

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And this, my friends, is why the devs just can't win.

Devs tell us nothing, people complain that they know nothing and threaten to leave.

Devs give us hints, people aren't happy because the big news no longer feels all that big.

I have no idea how these nice people don't explode out of sheer frustration.

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In regards to EarthWyrm, I play on the Freedom Server.

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Irrelevant. You were (or at least, seemed to be) trying to buy HOs on the market, and suggested that there weren't any available. I posted that Virtue was still running raids regularly, and since the market is cross-server, anything that is awarded on Virtue and put on the market will be available to someone on Freedom.

Not being able to find raids is a different issue than what I was responding to.

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(This is something simular to the badge requirements for accessing Katie and Lord Recluse.)

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Minor nit-pick, but there is no badge requirement for accessing Katie. You complete a story arc, but it's not a badge-awarding arc.

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1. It's less of a hassle to replace them every 5 levels and I don't waist any money sence I sell everything I get on the Black Market for tons of Inf. In the lower levels I get a little low on money and it's harder to sell my stuff but it works itself out in the long run.

I allso earn extra money by selling TOs sence I never use them. It doesn't take long to level up to the point where I can use DOs so I can deal with no enhancments till then.

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1a. No one is going to force you to use IOs. If you don't like the system, that's cool - it's completely optional. You can still level just fine using SOs. The fact that you don't like the system does not, however, make it flawed. It just makes it something you don't like.
1b. People actually slot TOs? I thought all anybody did was sell them to vendors.

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2. I'd rather have more freedom with where I put my enhancmets than to have a bunch of copies of the same set bonus.

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You have near-complete freedom how to slot your characters. I mix-and-match sets, common IOs, and sometimes SOs pretty regularly. Just because you can build full sets doesn't mean anyone is required to.

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Which is actully yet another problem I forgot to adress. The whole set thing is just a pain in my @$$.

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That's not a problem, it's an opinion.

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You have several damage enhancement but oh guess what they can only be used in Melee powers and all I have is range.

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2a. That happens to almost everyone with the first thing they craft. It happened to me.
2b. It's very easy to prevent having it happen a second time by reading the recipe.

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3. The overly complicated exsplinations for how IOs work really aren't helping the cause. The original idea seemed verry simple and easy to use and I liked that idea but it's how they were actully implimented that I absolutly hate.

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I guess I don't know what you mean by this. It's a system that has a lot of interconnected parts, so as a system, it's somewhat complex, but all of the individual parts are pretty straight-forward.

Step 1: Look at power, see what sets it takes.
Step 2: Look at sets, see what you want to build.
Step 3: Purchase or otherwise obtain relevant recipes.
Step 4: Obtain necessary salvage.
Step 5: Craft.

It's really not that bad of a process. I'm not trying to convince you to use it, but at the same time, I think that you might be making it sound a lot harder than it is, and there's no reason to scare off people who might enjoy this addition to the game.

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What originally seemed like a fairly simple addition to the game turned into one of the most complicated Enhancment types in the game. HOs were actully the exact oppiste. When I originally heard about them they sounded complicated but after useing them it became overly simplified.

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HOs are SOs that do more than one thing. Agreed that it's simple.

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Yet ANOTHER reason for me to hate IOs, no one seems to bother with HOs anymore.

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No idea where this conclusion comes from. I can state that it's not correct, though. I use a smattering of HOs on most of my 50s, and know many others who do as well.

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I've even attempted Buying HOs just to see if anyone had posted any or if any raids were going on I wasn't aware of and had a few bids up for about a month and nothing was ever gained. (My bids BTW were double the amount of the hiest price for the last HO sold so there's no reason I shouldn't of gotten an HO other than no HOs were being posted.)

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Without knowing which ones you were bidding on, I don't know what to tell you. I know that Virtue holds Hami raids a couple of times a week, so it's not like there aren't any going to the market.

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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with.

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I never said that. I said I believe (and still believe) that the majority of reasonable players don't begrudge NC for creating exclusive marketing giveaways.

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You'll note that I didn't say that you said it, I said that you implied it. Perhaps that wasn't your intent, but I hope you can see how a reasonable person could draw that inference.

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There are lots of decisions that either the dev team or NCsoft in general make that I either disagree with, or which go against my personal preferences (which are two different things). But thats not the same thing as saying I believe they are idiotic, incompetent, ignorant, unresponsive, or poor decision-makers every time they make a decision I disagree with.

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Nor did I say any of that. Anyone who makes such claims is, I'm willing to agree, being unreasonable.

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I'm disappointed I missed the last double XP weekend. I do not believe NCsoft had an obligation to check with my schedule first. I can be disappointed in something without thinking that that fact alone makes the source of my disappointment deficient.

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That doesn't seem analogous. For a parallel to hold, it seems like marketing would have to schedule such a reward at a time when they had full knowledge 99+% of the player base would not be able to take part.

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I also stand by my assertion that it is unreasonable to presume that being disappointed in a circumstance carries with it the presumption that someone made an error to create that circumstance.

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I think it's equally easy to stand behind the assertion that if a meaningful number of players are disappointed in the same decision, someone probably did make an error, if only in underestimating the reactions of the player base.

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If I end up not getting the costume option, I'll be disappointed. It won't change my mind that NCsoft is being completely reasonable in its approach to marketing exclusives.

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Which is not to say that it's the only way to do so, or the best way. We can toss the word "reasonable" at one another all day long, and in the end, things will be what they will be. The decision will be made and the game will go on.

There are reasonable people on both sides of this discussion. There are also unreasonable people on both sides. I suspect that the folks in charge of making decisions have made note of the things that work within their schema, and will end up doing what they deem is best.

In what I'm certain will be a reasonable way.

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The replies here speak for themselves.

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They certainly do. They tell me that some people have unimaginably unrealistic expectations.

I'm not sure what I could say I didn't already say in the Freakshow thread, except to reiterate that I believe personally that the vast overwhelming majority of reasonable players do not begrudge NC for making exclusive cool giveaways during promotional events.

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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with. Reasonable people can reasonably be disappointed in a decision that locks them out of a permanent in-game reward. Now, a reasonable person won't then shout from the rooftops that the game is dying, that they're taking their money and going elsewhere, or that the people responsible for the decision have no regard for their customer base (I don't believe in or endorse any of these statements, as far as they go), but implying that it's unreasonable to dislike the decision is simply not fair.

Especially if the solution is as simple as, "Well, the code exists. So we keep these exclusive for 6 months after the appropriate con, then make them available for purchase at the store at a cost of $5 per permanent temp power costume."

Problem solved. The folks who get the shiny have it as something that's unique for six months, the folks who really want it can exercise a little patience and then buy it. Seems win-win to me, and prevents $150-200 scalping on eBay.

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QR

Thank you for the continued feedback. We are listening and sending it along to the proper channels.

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This is still a game that had no economy to speak of for years. The only currency was "cool". Marketing is putting an example of the traditional currency in the hands of relatively few, using a criterion which is (right or wrong) seen as exclusionistic, and most apt to frustrate or disappoint the players who still approach the game in terms of the original currency rather than the post-market currency.

If you could pass that along to Marketing, along with the suggestion that a time-limited version of these might not cause this level of consternation, I'm sure it would be appreciated.

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I'm extremely sorry but I just cant resist my guess at the future:

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Talk about people I have come to expect better from, on the forums. Following a slippery slope to a place that nothing in the history of the game would give us any inclination that the dev team would support (if they remove snake egg farming because it let people get PL'd to 50 in under 48 hours, with millions to spend kitting out such a character, how could they ever justify, with a straight face, letting someone *buy* a level 50?) is fairly remarkable. Was it meant to be satire? If so, it didn't quite work for me.

I'm glad to see the option introduced. I'll never use it, and the amount of doom-crying it's generated is a little depressing, but it seems like it meets a viable need in a reasonable way.

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First off, I don't think I threatened to leave or anything of that nature.

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What you said, which you yourself quoted, was this:
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...seems like NC Soft is getting a good chunk of change from us and needs to do a bit more than they have this year. Lots of competition on the horizon.

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The clear implication is that if NCSoft doesn't do more than they have thus far this year, players will be lured away by the competition. It's not out of line for BABs to assume that the comment was based on your own personal likelihood of staying, since he has no reason to think you speak for anyone else in particular.

I think that BAB's response was appropriate and informative, and appreciate his willingness to provide more perspective on the MMO business.

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The case is that the trial is an experiment often the first impression is that is ... many people like me for example learn to play with the first trials to then improve the game, if you block things crucial to the learning of the game such as chat rooms and so ... they pay the new players will join in the game ... from flying by me left 3 day trial so it had the same opportunities that they pay is.

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UniqueDragon?

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Since City of Heroes launched:
<ul type="square">[*] More than 32 million characters created – that’s 4 times the population of New York City![*] Players have spent a combined 292 centuries playing City of Heroes and City of Villains[/list]

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Well that's a bit misleading. That's 32 million characters over 12 parallel instances of New York City, (assuming we're not counting the European New York Cities, (Old York Cities?) or the test servers).

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If I may quibble with your quibbling, since we're not counting Euro or Test, there are only 11 US servers. In addition, just dividing characters/servers assumes all servers have the same population, which they clearly don't.

I don't actually think Posi's point was misleading at all, since the raw number of characters is still the raw number of characters, and there is no real-world analog to something that exists in 11 parallel dimensions so drawing a comparison to NY was fine as far as I was concerned. But that's just me.

And I agree - yay us

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they have the names, you want to take them without their permission. that is stealing.

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Sorry if this has already been pointed out, but it can't be stealing. NCSoft owns everything we do in this game, including character names. If the person doesn't own the name, it can't be stolen from them. All that is being done in this case is NCSoft taking back what is theirs from someone who isn't using it, and letting someone else borrow it.

Get over the idea that you "own" your character names. You don't. From the user agreement, section 4b, which you click "I agree" to every time you log in:

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By agreeing to the User Agreement, you agree that you do not own either the master account or game account (collectively, the "Account") you use to access the service, the characters created on the Account and that NC Interactive stores on NC Interactive servers, the items stored on these servers, or any other data from which the servers and accounts are comprised.

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Emphasis mine.

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I appreciate the 2 free slots, thanks for that at least. It does seem a little skimpy though (skimpy as in 1 additional slot per year of paid account time), considering the capacity for 36 slots *per server*.

I'd buy 5 slots per server for 20 bucks, but 5 slots total is crap. Almost as bad a deal as a wedding costume or two for $10. 5 more slots on 11 servers would run me, what, $220?! Please correct my math if it's wrong, but it looks to me like maxing out your 36 slots on all 11 servers will cost you about $1000.

Well at least you don't charge $25 per character transfer, like Blizzard. Although, considering the way things are going, who knows what to expect.

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Excellently dooooom-y post. Nice job simultaneously repeating known facts in quasi-belligerent fashion and speculating ominously about the future based on positive news.

I give this an 8.7 on the Doom-O-Meter. Not crazy about the lyrics, but you can sho'nuff dance to it.

The thread now feels like a "real" forums thread.

/em thumbsup

Bravo. I'm sure if I read through the whole thread I may find some folks who are unhappy, but I'm definitely not one of them.

Very nicely done.

Edited to add: Wow. I read the whole thread. I don't think I've ever seen this much glee in one place that didn't involve cookies and duck-duck-goose.

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For all the posters saying /storm sucks for masterminds - have you ever played with either a mastermind or the /storm set?

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Well, I didn't say /storm would suck for masterminds. I'm sure it will be very powerful.

It will be utter misery for any brute teaming with them, though. And gawdforbid you don't have a top of the line computer, if you end up teamed with more than one thugs/storm MM tossing out gang war and tornado and lightning storm on top of the standard arsenal of moronic henchmen.

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The *ONLY* reason I see brutes getting SR is to fight 40+ Longbow, with their Sonic Grenades. It's still counter-intuitive though, it's not going to build fury as fast as a resist set.

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Completely false. You don't build fury from getting hit, you build fury from being attacked. Unless SR has something that slows incoming attacks, it will build fury exactly as fast as any resist set out there - and it has quickness built in, so it can attack faster to boot...

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*Farmer hat on*

1-10 Perez/Hollow for arcanes
10-20 Midnight Squad (potential arcanes)
21-29 Dark Astoria

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You understand of course that the value of farming arcane salvage comes from the fact that it is so rare, so the prices are high.....

And now, with arcane content and arcane salvage now being so much more common . . .

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It's too early to assume that the Midnight Squad content will have anything to do with arcane droppers. In fact, since it looks like it will have to do with the Lost, who only drop tech salvage, I suspect it won't give anything more worth farming than your typical arc does now. Which is fine.

To be fair, though, arcane salvage can't be construed as "rare" when there are 2000 Luck Charms for sale at any given point in time; it's just heavily and actively manipulated.

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positron already said corrs will get storm...meaning empathy is out.

[/ QUOTE ]Who said it would be *corruptors* getting empathy?

Thugs/empath MM ftw!

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I can see that instead of Kinetics for Masterminds. I'll still guess Kinetics tho.

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I would be a little surprised to see that, if only because of the widespread nerf-herding that surrounds Kinetics.

If there's an AT that it actually makes a little sense to have a "buff the troops" powerset like Empathy villain-side, it's probably more MM than Corr anyway.

I'll be happy regardless. Despite posting a "bah" earlier in this thread, I'm significantly more stoked about this issue than I was about I11.