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Quote:See I would think that Richter and Cole after gaining their powers decided to head home, but in this world they took a few days to see Richter's home land and just stayed to help rebuild. They need costumes and didn't show their powers much which pushed back other Super from emerging and when Hitler came on the scene Cole was sucked in due to being poor in the states and seeing the injustice of back home and the treaties... To get the jewish part out of the way, maybe a jew killed Richter? or maybe killed his wife or something like that? Thus allowing Reichsman to be born... or perhaps Cole saw what was happening and tried to stop the holocaust, was caught and the 3rd reich saw his potential so the brainwashed him.I do like Johnny Butane's idea, but I think Stefan Richter plays an important role: he is the son of an Austrian immigrant who takes Cole in, and the two of them become best buds before heading off to war. Heck, maybe Richter is the guy who stood a wee bit too far left, and Cole ended up going to Austria to pay his respects and some point, and got caught up in the whole Nazi thing there.
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je_saist. You're simply wrong. People are who they are because of their pasts and the world is created from their past. As already said, it is near impossible to have anything near what the world is like if it doesn't follow the same path up until a divergence point. In this case Sometime after Cole becomes an incarnate.
The Nazi party before Hitler was a noname political party that had very little support. It was Hitler's rhetoric that pushed Germany back to war and such. Without hitler you have no 3rd reich and no Nazi Germany and no WWII... thus no Reichsman. Even if Cole supported germany and took control of it it would not have been called the 3rd Reich.
So to accept that Cole became Reichsman you have to given him a reason of how he went from his origin and path to what he became which it just doesn't fit. Even if Cole accepted the Nazi party, which I could see happening given his past, his Cole's personality leans more towards the world, and not any individual or single entity which was caused by him searching for Well of Furies. Reichsman attitude is subservience to a nation which doesn't fir his MO.
For Reichsman to exist Cole would have to suddenly start hating Jews for no apparent (as of yet known) reason. I very much doubt that would happen as Cole was well traveled and likely accepting of cultures by that time and not to mention grew up in america and already viewed Germany as the enemy. -
Quote:I saw those and I still stand by what I said. Hell and the other planes are not other universes. They are shifts in perception. The gods likely have portal tech and even if not it's still more likely that Lilitu is not this Infernal's mother in terms of this version giving birth to this version of Infernal, but still maintains the connections as a lot of people do in similar situations... We saw in the comics that Cole still felt strongly about Megan even though they are from dif universes.From http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Infernal
"A master of demon binding and summoning from another dimension..."
"During Defeat Infernal:
Before combat: As I suspected, the inscriptions match. She was here, all those lost ages ago. Mother..."
"During Defeat and Capture Lilitu:
Before combat: Lilitu! Mother! I'm coming for you!"
I'd say that's pretty conclusive. -
Quote:I know many people don't think so but if X is a given way you can say various things about X even if it's not confirmed.He was a mercenary...He was either paid to be the Nazi Super Soldier or he was a Nazi sympathizer.
He's not our Statesman he does not have the same past just a similar genetic background.
You seem to think him joining Hitler is where the universe differs from ours..in fact does it mention Hitler anywhere in that dimensions information?
Nazis for example would not exist without Hitler.
A person wouldn't exist if their parents paths don't cross and it is unlikely that they will when anything is different about their lives.
Basically for Nazis to exist... Everything in Earth Prime must be very very close so close that it is more likely that they are exact same till the divergence point than it is that they aren't and until it says otherwise they are...
In other words the difference in Axis America is what Cole does after becoming an incarnate and not before.
Given the way he speaks and the his accent this indicates that he was likely Brainwashed in some way. -
It still requires him or his family defecting... it just makes him an incompetent if he was on Germany's side during WWI... it also requires him to have not heard the propaganda of Hitler and still agree with him.
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Quote:That's not the point... the point is why did he turn to becoming Reichsman? Did he decide not to go back to paragon and decide to help Germany recover...if so how did Nazis come about as a hero helping them out would lessen Hitler's rhetoric. Did he not help oand just chill in Germany or something? Even if he did he would still likely of gotten away from Germany as quick as possible...And what of Recluse?Man it's almost like other dimensions have different timelines then ours!
There is another option... he's trying to work from the inside...
Any way you look at it He's a Tragedy or a Traitor in support of Nazis. There is literally no course of events that could happen that make that not the case. We are either keeping him from helping the good cause, been brainwashed away from being Statesman, or a Traitor in support of Nazi ideals (in other words he said the holocaust was a good thing) -
Quote:Then that articles is wrong cuz that doesn't followNo betrayal at all. Reichsman was always with the Axis.
From Paragon Wiki:
Description
This Marcus Cole, from an alternate dimension, was a rogue and a mercenary who was exposed to mustard gas during World War I. In search of a cure for the effects of the gas, Marcus discovered the Well of the Furies. He drank from the well and was granted incredible powers. Adopting the persona of Reichsman, Marcus used these powers in the service of the Axis powers on his world, leading them to victory over their foes. When he discovered the existence of another Earth, he traveled there and was defeated and imprisoned by the Freedom Phalanx. Now he's back, and ready for revenge.
Statesman drank from the Fountain of Zeus in 1930s and returned to America.
World War II happened in the 1940s.
For Cole to have become Reichsman they he would have had to either defected or been Brain Washed... So he's either a tragedy or Cole is shouldn't really be as trusted as he is considering the defection and possible support of Nazi beliefs which is a worse place than Tyrant is. -
I have read through that arc info, but it strikes me as weird that Reichsman is Reichsman... From what we know of Cole's history this is how his life must've been...
Cole joins the military during WWI
Cole becomes incarnate...
Cole becomes Statesman...
Cole is injured during WWII during d-day.
The Axis powers wins.
Cole becomes Reichman.
This would indicate a betrayal of some sort or a weakness of character in Cole as we know he is "invulnerable" and super strong which means he can more or less take down all of the Axis Army alone... So what caused him to become Reichsman... A staunch patriot that fights for america to becoming the biggest supporter and pretty evil character that is Reichsman.
Maybe mind manipulation? Weakness of Character? Cole just likes the Nazis?
What are your thoughts? -
Quote:better?: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Dur...th/Marcus_ColeRight, I'm not saying the timeline needs to be expanded, it's fine. What I meant is that I imagine people who want lore aren't going to want a timeline, they'll want a biography, so the link to said biography should be more prominent. Or you could, as you said, provide a small sentence or two of concise bio, then link to the full one.
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Quote:Thinking it through with all the information I can find and knowledge of how characters often work... I think it's a bit of mistaken understanding... Llitu IS Infernal's mother, but not Primal Earth's Infernal.I think I read the thread reasonably carefully enough that this hasn't been addressed fully:
Lilitu and Infernal throw an interesting wrench into things, in that he is from another dimension, and she is his mother, which implies that demons have a pan-dimensional realm or abilities. This was addressed a little bit earlier, but it gets fun when you consider the "meta" metaverse... i.e., the servers. It's one thing to think about a server's universe, with one Lilitu who is able to access many dimensions within it, but then you have to begin to consider: what if, even in one server-verse, there is an infinite amount of Lilitus? Could there be parallel metaverses within a server, each with their own pan-dimensional demon realm? Or is each server its own metaverse, with only one demon realm?
Say, bedtime already? Hmm... maybe that has something to do with this post... -
Quote:See the reason why I left a lot of the info surrounding the events out is because more or less the only thing Statesman does is hit people. He's not the one finding the cure, racing around, or doing the really heroic stuff... He's hitting people. So when it says He thwarted a foe with the help of x... it means X did all the leg work for whatever and Stateman hit the foe...more or less. And we're talking about what Statesman did, not what Freedom Phalanx or Nemesis did... Also remember all that stuff will be linked to the other pages when it is all completely up...As for what I meant about Statesman: on your page for Primal Marcus Cole, there's a section called"History". Right below its title is a link to the regular article on Statesman's Background section. That's what ought to be more prominent.
Reasoning: people who are looking for lore will surely be interested in what he did (the timeline) but are also going to want to know why he did it, or what sorts of things led to it, and general things that go deeper. The link is relatively easy to pass over, and it's really what I think people who are going to be looking at this project will be looking for. Since the idea here is to make lore streamlined and easy to find, making that link more prominent is a good idea.
Maybe a section called "background" that just says "See this page: <link>"? Or a little note that says "For a more detailed background, go here: <link>"?
tldr ver...
Statesman page = Helps thwart Nemesis with the Help of the Freedom Phalanx
Synapse page = Distributes antidote in the nick of time along with x, while the rest of the Phalanx takes down Nemesis
Freedom Phalanx = Synapse and x distribute the antidote in the nick of time, while Statesman, Sister Psyche, etc.. take down Nemesis.
So that the part that the person/group contributes is the part that is in their page, which just seems better to me. What say others?
Also i think there needs to be a small background above it, but not the info from Statesman's history as all that info is just prose form of what's in the timeline, and doesn't have all or as exact dates... So maybe the History section should be turned in to Biography section with a quick Bakground paragraph and then the timeline. -
Quote:1896 and that's according to the Timeline on the wiki already.I don't have as much time as I'd like, so I just checked out the two you linked. They look great so far!
One thing: make the link to Statesman's article more prominent. I like the layout and the timeline, but without making it clear that there is a written bio/background, it looks lacking.
Also, his birthday wasn't in 1986 (although, with time traveling whosawhatsits, you never know).
This is more about parsing data than it is new info.
What do you mean more prominent? If you are talking about on Primal Earth page, it's not supposed to be. Everyone is just as important as the next ^.^ and that list is going to be huge... Consider just about every name in the game will be on that list.
What do you mean written bio/background? Do you mean a prose style bio that's in the other one? There is more info in the timeline, maybe you mean a synopse of who the character is... doing a prose style write would be redundant.
On a Side note... a writings or tomes or something like that section is probably a good thing to add as well, but I have no idea what to call it. -
Paragon Party,
You have to see Pocket D?
Ripe for the picking!
@durakken -
so some pages are up and info is being put up...so now i need feed back on these... as they are more or less templates...
Primal Earth Page: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Dur...e/Primal_Earth
Primal Earth Marcus Cole Page: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Dur...th_Marcus_Cole
Also... please take a look at the multiverse, races, and technology pages and tell me what you think...
And last... any idea on the powers and archetype sections... The powers section should probably have info on Origins of powers and a list of the basic powers and how they manifest... -
it wouldn't take away from sales or anything like that people v.v
Onlive is not a "host" for server.
What Onlive is is a set of High End machines that streams their video output to a client and recieves input from that client...So what would be happening is the following...
Output: CoH Server -> CoH Client-OnLive Server -> OnLive Client
Input: OnLive Client -> OnLive Server-CoH Client -> CoH Server
It's a middle man...
What are the pros of this system?
If you have an decent internet connection (which most of us have) but a older PC then you get higher graphic quality due to the video card is just displaying a prerendered image which was processed and rendered by superior machine.
What are the cons of this system?
If you have a high end PC you'll be lowering your overall because the PC can already handle the processing and such and the middle man server makes the overall connection slower.
Who benefits from this system?
People who have an ok or worse PC and an Ok to great connection. Basically the better your PC is the worse the deal is, but the Worse your PC is the better the deal is... This makes it ideal for people who want to run games on non-gaming PC rigs and things like iphone, iPad, Nettops, Netbooks, laptops, etc... In other words... the demographic that CoH seems to be grabbing a lot of people from and the average CoH player.
The problem with OnLive is that the demographic it is going for is the demographic that will likely never hear about it as they aren't too into games to hear the news and frankly i'd prefer it if it were built into my handhelds and consoles i already have to improve things like the PSP's connection to the PS3.
As far as someone who has messed with it...one of the G4 people said they had gotten an opportunity to mess with a bit and there was almost no lag, but that should be taken with a grain of salt as they were running off dedicated servers with noone else on them near or at one of their hubs apparently.
And as far as 'keeping CoH alive after the servers close' I can see a way to do that pretty easily with the tools they have given us and it would just take a programmer with a little know-how, and care to make it work. But not allowed to talk about things like that so mums the word -
Quote:Thanks... I would not have known how to do that, but now I is working >.> though lack of wiki code is making this more difficult than need be >.>I laid out sample pages for the main lore page, a policy page, and the main trunk of the multiverse page.
Edit mercilessly. Edit boldly. -
Quote:i have no idea if that is even possible to do...I'm not advocating making your lore pages just a bunch of links to other wiki articles, it's just that links to stuff that's there (like the location of a contact) is already there to be linked to.
If you set up your own /Lore/... subdomain, you can structure it however you want, just like you would a standalone wiki. Everything that you're imagining your standalone wiki would do, you can do as a subdomain on Paragonwiki, so, I don't get how you're saying you can't structure things the way you want on Paragonwiki and still talking about using a wiki.... it's the same tools -- structure the subdomain anyway you want.
If it is I have no problem doing that
and looking around a bit doesn't seem to be a way to do that from a user standpoint -
Quote:Man i so wish i had the money right this second to do the dreamhost deal. $10 for year and free domain = super awesome.Wow, conversation about Paragon Wiki... Must... Weigh... In...
I think that Aggelakis is right. We already host two wikis, and it sounds like there would be a pretty big intersection between the information in this wiki and the information in the Paragon Wiki. For what it's worth, I try to add in lore as I can. There's certainly no rule against adding lore. In fact, the dirty little secret is that keeping track of game lore was one of the primary motivations I had for creating the wiki to begin with. To be honest, it's gotten a lot more nitty-gritty detail as time has gone on than anything I had planned at the outset.
But you can still see some of this legacy in articles such as the Freedom Corps article, Midnight Squad, Maiden Justice, etc. Of course, there's more than only lore in these articles, because the wiki was designed to be useful as well as a good read. But there are pretty heavy lore sections on most major characters (e.g. background sections on Luminary, Baron Zoria, etc.)
My gut suggestion is that you think the Paragon Wiki is a bit light on lore, by gummy, beef it up. I only ask that you provide citations for where you get the information. If you decide to go with a separate wiki just for lore, I'd highly suggest doing this anyway. The sad fact is that if you don't, there's a pretty good likelihood that some people will just make stuff up and put in it.
If you do decide to go it on your own, you'll need a hosting provider. To start off, I'd suggest something like Namecheap or Dreamhost. The Paragon Wiki uses the same software that runs the Wikipedia, which is the open source MediaWiki software. If you want to test drive it and see if you're willing and able to host the wiki, you can configure it to run on your workstation, but you'll also need copies of Apache, MySQL, and PHP (all open source, and all cross-platform), or you might want to look into something like XAMPP, which contains everything you need in one neat self-contained installable package.
Right now I have a Go Daddy and Gatorhost hosting plan. I just haven't set up a wiki before... but i t should be no harder than a forum or anything else which only took me 24 hours to figure out ^.^
As far as beefing up Paragonwiki...as I've stated before it's not that the information is not there it's that the information is all over the place and without a lot of redundancy of information in multiple areas you're not going to fix that problem.
Oh and yes in something like this i would insist citations even though my hatred of using them in other areas ^.^
As i said... the information is all over the place on paragon wiki but it's there and yes it would be easier to link to every little thing...probably for that information in the short run. The site layout really doesn't work for what I'm talking about. -
I think it would be easier for the idea, but harder to round up the info...
I need a name for this >.> maybe something like City of Lore or Portal Corp or Vanguard Files. -
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So it seems people would like it so... Rick are you going to get CoHTitan to do it cuz that is what it sounds like where this is going...
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When I say origins I mean... It would be great if we could somehow get specialized "origin" mission and things for a our character...
But i don't know how much over stepping the player created story this would be able to go.
I was thinking something like...when you create your character you are asked a number of questions like "what was your past like?" "Where did your name come from?" "are you rich?" And from those questions create a mission or set of missions that show you go from being a normal person to deciding to get your license or going into the line of crime.
This would then set up a
Personal archvillain
Personal Base (based on richness etc: if you're rich you get option of mansion or something.. or if your poor you might get an apartment like in spiderman and his amazing friends or like the clocktower)
Obviously with the above there needs to be an offset of some sort for those who just are min maxers and all go with rich... Maybe have something to do with inf/prestige or other various stats or powers.
Seems like too much work for a regular booster but not enough to base a whole issue around on it's own... and has a bunch of how to balance and how far to push it. Though i think the basic idea if the questions to create the mission were good enough it wouldn't over step the boundary the devs have implied they don't want to cross. -
In text it is, in application it isn't ^.^ Because it's asking simple questions and pointing you in the right direction where as the standard just asks you "What do you want to know" uhh Everything? "ok plop... have fun sifting with no guide"
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Not exactly... cuz Rikti isn't really what I would call a primary thing...
On the front page I'd put...
Multiverse, Powers, Archtypes, Races, Technology
For the most part those are table of contents for each of those areas... but the multiverse would divide into each universe...so if we were to select Rikti Earth which would be listed as something like:
official name: ??? Nick name: Rikti Earth Distinguishing feature: Where the Rikti are from.
When you click on that you'd get another break down, perhaps a pop up... that would let you select one of the following
Organizations, History, People, Maps (redrawn and labeled)
Clicking on Organizations would give you a list of all the organizations in that universe, their history, their members, their connections,
Clicking on History would give you the history of the universe as a whole, both known and possible known (such as the destined one arcs and ouroborus future arcs)
Clicking on People would give you a list of all the people who call the universe home (obviously with links to their own bios... and each of these bios are also cross referenced as they would be in any wiki. The bio would contain all known info about that character's history and powers [not the individual powers but more along their sets...])
Clicking on Maps would give you all the maps available for that universe and all the information relating to each map (for example did Washington DC get blow up? that should be mentioned)... and as a continuous project i would love to have map re drawn and have the street labels and building labeled where we know them. This would also have all info on those buildings in those maps
The power section would talk about origins of powers, manifestations, and how they are used rather than "fireball : Minor DoT" it would talk about the manifestation of Fire
The archtype section... i dunno >.> seems like it should go here and it doesn't really fit anywhere else.
Technology section... this is separate because technology is passed around worlds and is separate from them...even though the tech may have an origin the tech itself is important to reference on it's own.
Races section would be to talk about Rikti and Kheldian and various other races biology and such. What do we know about them as a species, where do they come from, how do they communicate, etc... This is different from their culture and such which is part of their universe...sure it effects it, but it should be handled separately. And when you say "where are they from?" you simply link over to it.
This stream lining allows for quick and concise information gather and input. In stead of looking for a paragraph that says "The rikti are from x" You look in races and that has a thing that has "Origin: Rikti Earth" and that links you to the Rikti earth universe page. You clearly know what one page is talking about and what the other is and even though they are separate page they work as a unit. rather than a garbled mess which is what we sorta have right now for anything other than game stuff in paragonwiki. -
Quote:I have a problem with the general site map of Paragonwiki and Ouroboros Portal. I'd contribute a lot if it were streamlined close to the way I mentioned above, but I don't see the point if it's not streamlined. After all the whole point of what I'm suggesting is to stream line and add the information so that it is easier to read, cross reference, and get to... which the layout of PW and OP really doesn't do >.>The current Paragonwiki has an Ouroboros Portal for a more community driven knowledge base. Maybe tack on another section devoted more to the lore, like expanding the timeline and just containing the tidbits you learn through story arcs rather than info on the story arcs themselves. Call it the Midnighter Archives or something?
If the guys at the Titan Network* were to do something like this, would you contribute?
Y'know, I think I would.
*I'm affiliated with the Titan Network, but they do great work.