Durakken

Something like the first 3 seasons of a proposed and assumed 7 season series

'According to Brannon Braga, the Temporal Cold War arc was created at the request of the studio, which wanted something more "futuristic"'

Wanted, not mandated.

' ...and if you combine that with a variety of alternate timelines you can have a ball...Because you can deal with changing things that can be historical changes that can immediately be undone by resetting things. It gives us a lot to play with." '

Like what I said they did. They are showing things that might have happened like this but because of the way they did it you can, but don't have to accept it as cannon. It's a pretty clever trick.

Because...

"I felt that everything that had been said about the Temporal Cold War had already been said. I felt a heavy reliance on time travel at the beginning of Enterprise"

"I definitely felt as if there was a dictate on high from the network level, or from the studio level, to end the temporal time war, wrap it up immediately.... At the same time I think the network forced them to tie it all up so abruptly that the way in which they had to do it was not as deft as it needed to be."

In other words. He felt there was a dictate, but not expressed AND thought that the way he ABRUPTLY ENDED it was was wrong...what's the opposite of abrupt?

Except for where Many Coto says

"I felt a heavy reliance on time travel at the beginning of Enterprise"

Do you know what Reliance means?
It would be nice if you would stop quote mining.

Thanks for showing a lack of reading comprehension.

What is said is that the "powers that be" wanted a more "futuristic" idea in Enterprise. That idea could have easily been a different show. And that the Braga "felt" forced to wrap it up quickly and do so in season 4 where they didn't want it to be.

Braga actually says that he wanted to do it over a longer perid of time and that the show was RELIANT on the whole time traveling thing.

So there was no "forcing" there was only suggestion and "feeling" along with the fact that Enterprise was Canceled which made them wrap it up quickly and before they wanted to...

Sorry, but I don't believe it was "forced" upon them. If it was then they would have done less with it...ie no suliban, no daniels, no Xindi...They wouldn't have an entire season based on it.

read Remus' what each sword is... I only disagree with Gram as it is mythological... I take myth as historical in this case.

How do you figure it was a bad story because they weren't allowed to finish it? It wasn't that they just sad "we aren't going to finish it" but the show was canceled before the story could be completed.

The TCW was not 13 episodes. I have no idea how you are getting that count. Any episode that dealt with the Suliban, Xindi, or Daniels has to do with the TCW... considering AN ENTIRE SEASON is about the Xindi that's 23+ episodes right there


Why wouldn't the writers say it was bad if they didn't come up with it? It's an easy out for them and it's diffuses the hate they get. Further this is the reason a lot of people give for why Enterprise is not liked and why those creators sucked, but now you are saying "they don't. They just had other people in charge that sucked!" You can't have it both ways.

And it didn't just "suddenly disappear" it wrapped up over 2 episodes in the final season and I'd be willing to bet had the show not been canceled you would have seen in in place of the final episode and continue on in the next season restarted with a "i thought we fixed that" I think it's fair to say that the people in charge realized that going back to Nazi Germany and staying there was a bad idea and told them to wrap that part of it up because they want to be more about the Enterprise and it's crew and not Nazi Germany. What they did after that point is pretty much what I would have done since the next season was supposed to be moving into the whole Romulan War so they had to establish better relations with the other races in the federation.

If you move the Time traveling stuff that's what you are left with. And remember the series was meant to run several seasons longer so saying that it didn't go anywhere is dumb. You build things up. You're suggesting that because the story never finished the set up and such was bad. That's impossible to say because you don't know what exactly the build up was leading to.

They could have not done the Temporal Cold War, but they did and it was the central driving story and you can't get away from that. It's kinda like if you took and didn't follow the Doctor, but followed Earth through out time. Is the story not still about the doctor? The answer to that is Yes. The story is still about doctor whether you are seeing it exclusively from one side or the other.

Granted, I'll give you that is not what the show was sold on or what viewers expected, but that is still what it is and it was done well. There's no point in trying to convince anyone though because people tend to have formed their opinions and refuse to change them about these fan type things.

That is true, but after a number of talks with other people that like Trek it's apparent that they never understood the story in the first place, let alone time travel in general.

If you look at what it was sold as, yes. If you look at what it actually was, no. The Enterprise setting was a format for telling the story and not actually the story. If they told the story again, they change the format, not the story, in which case Enterprise would take place in the 31st Century and Enterprise would only be guest stars. If you told a different story with the same format ( the sotry sold to us) them you would get the non-interfered with Enterprise.

And I'm saying that not only do these people not understand the story which they clearly don't, if you "take out" a majority and a key thing to what something is it is not that thing any more.

If you took out all the time travel stuff and all things related to it and all things caused by it which is the majority of the show and it is integral to understanding what was going on then it would no longer be Enterprise. It would be a different series.

Yes the andorian episodes are good but a majority of those have to do with the Andorians helping Enterprise during those events where the time traveling stuff occurred. So they wouldn't happen

The Klingon stuff is made worse in they eyes of these same fans because then there is no out for them and they're just dumb.

The Vulcan episodes consist of largely were drab in my opinion, largely consisting of... "don't do that" "we don't believe you" "T'Pol stop siding with them" "T'Pol stop stripping"

The other parts that don't consist of one of the aforementioned almost all could be summed up by human immaturity and soft core porn.

So what your saying is Trek fans want a soft core Vulcan/Andorian porn where there is a war between the two and the settle it by love. I'm sure...


Would an actual telling of the adventures of the Enterprise be interesting? Yes. Does that make what we got not interesting? No.

No what I'm saying is the entire story is about time travel which is supported by the entire story being about time travel. If you remove the time traveling bit the series is like 80-90% different because without the time travel parts the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th season don't exist and most of the 1st doesn't either.

Another missing thing...

That "death" that happened at the beginning of the series happened in june or july right?

The death that the little guys were talking about happens in April

So obviously one or both deaths recorded are wrong.

Here in lies the problem...
The perceived story doesn't need time travel
The actual story is nothing but time travel

Season 1 - Enterprise continuously runs across the Suliban who interferes with the Enterprise... The Suliban are a genetically altered and risen species that is created and controlled by a future faction.

Season 2 - Enterprise searches for info on the Suliban up until the end of the series where the Xindi attack earth. The Xindi who are controlled by a future faction that is defeated by the federation in the future and thus try to stop them early on.

Season 3 - Enterprise make their way to the Xindi homeworld and in doing so learn about the future aliens trying to attack in the past and as a result stop that event from happening before it does.

Season 4 - The Enterprise starts taking an active role in the past where they fight the temporal cold war with Daniels and thus reset the timeline to what it should be...

That is to say that entire series never happened in the canon of star trek as far as a historical point of view and the entire story is about time travel and the future interfering with the past.

Now if we remove that what happens to the series? It pretty much removes the entire series' story archs.

What's wrong with trying to get the hot chick to be naked? But yes there are several episodes like that but i'd say the majority of the series isn't like that. I'd say try skipping around a bit then go back and watch it from the beginning... actually now that i see what the episodes were and where you said you left off... try the next episode, ep7, everyone seems to love the andorian eps.

The problem with Enterprise is that a lot of the viewers don't get how time travel works and think that its "whatever i say it is" Star Trek has been consistent with it's time traveling elements throughout and Enterprise is ALL ABOUT time travel. It is one big Time Travel story and it really makes sense when you look at it not as a prequel of other Star Trek series, but as a sequel set in the future.

It's confusing because the setting and main cast are all from the past, but if you watch it as from the point of view of we know this didn't or shouldn't happen like this because we know the future it all makes sense. The series starts pretty much by introducing us to an element didn't previously exist in the timeline before hand... the suliban... and then we are slowly introduced to the temporal cold war, the future federation, the temporal accords, and within all that we are introduced to this war that did not and should not be occurring (even according to the people in the story) with the xindi war.

So what are we looking at? We are looking at the future actions of factions in a past setting that supposedly gets corrected after the war happens with only a few people in the "past" knowing about it.

It's kinda like how there is a Dallek in World War II that couldn't be there unless the events of whatever future date when the Doctor destroyed them took place... Yes the setting is the past but in the overall timeline of the series it actually takes place after the events that happen in future.

Actually Voyager was made because people expressed that what they love about TOS and TNG is the unknown and the exploration of new races and cultures and the idea that they're on the frontier. Everyone saw that a show like that couldn't be done without something like throwing them to the far side of the galaxy because the world around the federation had been explored and people know all about everything in that area. So in fact they were trying to recapture what TOS and TNG was seen as to plenty of people.

I like Voyager and I think people forget that they explored various issues as well, but it also moved away from the atheistic secular humanist world view that ST promotes for the most part and dealt with a lot of theistic new age world view stuff that cropped up out of place in TNG some TNG episodes and after DS9 pretty much focusing entirely on the concept of "higher" beings as gods, Voyager was almost like a reaction to DS9 every sense of what it did.

Enterprise on the other hand came about because First Contact made a lot of money, people wanted to see the era, and they saw it as a way to have their cake and eat it too with the fact that they could explore known space as though it were unexplored... and it's not like we have seen every race in the 400 episodes that make up TOS, TNG, and DS9 that the Federation has come across and a number of races while we've seen haven't been explored so it was more or less a perfect setting for whatever one wanted.

Parallels shows multiple universes but also shows that a person from one can not remain n another for very long thus ruling it out as a way that time travel works

All good things shows Q meddling and when Q messing with events all other rules are void because as far as we know Qs can travel forward and backward in time as well as change all events as they see fit. It is impossible to tell whether the events were all just an illusion or even completely controlled by Q or whether the time lines were all part of one universe or several. Not to mention that Time was going backwards which has to be taken into account and Q was merely allowing Picard the perception to see what was happening to see if he could understand that can flow backwards and forwards and to think in that mode of thought as a part of the over arching test that Q was putting him through.

Visionary shows O'Brian leaping between two points in time via a weird temporal drag effect. A second universe wasn't created. He continued to move into the future while the rest of the universe around him fell behind and then he got dragged back, resyncing up... The device used in the end caused a split in O'Brian, not a second universe. The Universe where DS9 gets blown up was a future point within the time stream that was shifted due to time travel... it was never ever a second universe.

The real question is how did Rory and Amy produce a black timelord? I think Rory should be asking some questions...

The problem I think is that people are a bit confused as to where some of these Swords come from and are unwilling to look them up apparently...

That should have been fixed by the first question asked... People could look up game, anime, or manga weapons and probably find that many have their roots in western fiction and history.

Of course then again, just cuz I know their origins doesn't mean I know anything about them. Gram for example if I remember right is simple Siegfried's sword...beyond that I couldn't say.