DreadShinobi
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Posts
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Some extremely generalistic comments:
KM has good aoe thanks to Burst which has a 100% crit chance, makes very good use of placate and stalker ATO to leverage. KM has moderately good ST dmg, it would be top tier however it over relies on the Stalker ATO proc to get CS to auto recharge BU. The Stalker ATO can only be triggered once every 10 seconds and with the proposed PPM change, it will be even worse after that.
StJ has extemely good ST dmg, with a hard hitting but small radius aoe. The set benefits from the stalker ATO making CU hit like a truck but it does not over rely on the proc to function well like KM
ElM actually does very respectable ST dmg thanks to AS making up for it's lack of a strong ST attack. Lightning Rod has really good burst damage and doesn't break hide (the latter isn't something I found immensely useful outside pvp, but can still be a nice perk). Most of ElM attacks will deal AoE damage but it isn't as conventional as just having 1 main aoe like KM and StJ. -
Quote:Just a note on mob resistances, it's rather old data, but still serves a relative amount of purpose.Originally Posted by Nemo_Utopia
Fire may be just about the second most commonly resisted damage type in the game on average (right there behind Smashing and Lethal), but don't let that stop you!
Quote:Average Damage Admitted
(To compute res, 100-number.)
All
Sm 80% 94%
Le 76% 92%
Fi 85% 97%
Co 85% 96%
En 89% 97%
Ne 87% 97%
Ps 82% 95%
To 67% 93%
50+
Sm 76% 93%
Le 75% 90%
Fi 76% 96%
Co 80% 95%
En 85% 95%
Ne 77% 95%
Ps 63% 87%
To 63% 94%
40-49
Sm 77% 93%
Le 74% 91%
Fi 76% 96%
Co 79% 95%
En 85% 95%
Ne 79% 95%
Ps 63% 89%
To 61% 93%
30-39
Sm 82% 95%
Le 74% 92%
Fi 92% 99%
Co 80% 96%
En 93% 98%
Ne 92% 98%
Ps 70% 94%
To 62% 94%
20-29
Sm 79% 94%
Le 75% 92%
Fi 90% 98%
Co 85% 96%
En 95% 99%
Ne 92% 98%
Ps 81% 97%
To 61% 93%
10-19
Sm 83% 97%
Le 81% 96%
Fi 89% 98%
Co 102% 100%
En 95% 99%
Ne 90% 98%
Ps 111% 101%
To 61% 95%
1-9
Sm 87% 98%
Le 83% 97%
Fi 85% 98%
Co 103% 101%
En 100% 100%
Ne 86% 98%
Ps 111% 101%
To 61% 97%
First column is all the entities with some form of resistance or vulnerability to the damage type. The second column counts every entity in the game within the given level range. So, for example, a lvl50 Psi user fighting resistance/vulnerable foes will be running up against ~37% resistance. For all lvl50+ enemies, that average is 87%. So it's not often resisted, but when it is, it's very significant.
This makes Energy look like the real winner, though personal experience is that fire is the most consistent. (The numbers could also be skewed by enemies you don't fight a lot, but do show up. Praetorians, for example, would be in this range, but outside of a few story arcs, you'll never run into them again.) -
Quote:You wouldn't say that if you've played TW.Originally Posted by eth_Nargy
Personally I think it's the best scrapper primary.
Crowd control is downright stupid both in terms of damage and mitigation, and shatter is no slouch either. Clobber is a very good single target attack as well.
When I'm playing my mace scrapper, I just feel absolutely safe.
Also, I think Crowd control is the best cone attack in the game. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Everything_Xen
Will Interface be switched to a PPM style too?^^Quote:Originally Posted by Synapse
Also, this PPM change will have no affect on Interface Incarnate powers.
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Quote:Proc Brawl was never really alive. >_>Originally Posted by Caulderone
As an aside...
Proc-Brawl is officially dead. -
Quote:I'm just estimating here, but it should still be capped proc chance up to somewhere around 40% rchg.Originally Posted by Vauluur
Is this assuming that no recharge is slotted into the power? If so, I don't see this being terribly game breaking. It would be trading consistent damage for massive burst damage. Otherwise, I assume the PPM would simply have to be less than 1.
Just to list the most common slottings of BU/Aim to put it in comparison:
2 Rectified Reticle (S/L bonus) ----------------------16% rchg
2 Rectified Reticle (S/L bonus)+lvl 50 rchg IO --- 58.4% rchg
3 Gaussian incl proc (HP bonus) -------------------- 53% rchg
6 Gaussins (positional bonuses) ------------------- 73.78% rchg
2 Adjusted Targetting (dmg bonus) --------------- 68.9% rchg
All of that is not much higher than 40% and should retain very high proc chance on the BU proc. -
Quote:Yes, it should be.Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Isn't the Period for pulse & aura powers 10 seconds, to match when it actually runs the checks?
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I know this is an edge case, but something that should probably be brought up at some point.
Gaussian Chance for BU using a PPM formula in a 90s rchg power (AIM/BU) even at only 1 PPM will have an extremely high proc chance essentially allowing for double BU/AIM nearly everytime.
Is this going to be WAI or is there a plan to address this? -
Quote:Maybe if you would look into my post a bit more first before jumping to conclusions. The 3rd part was meant as a joke, but if you really look at WHY LA and UA would be so much better on other ATs you could just as easily turn that 'why' into a buff for khelds. I made my post ambiguous on purpose.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Really? You had to come in here and do that? I did make some specific requests on starting the thread. If you'd like to make some actual, realistic and non insulting (which, frankly, that is) suggestions, feel free to edit your post.
Luminous Aura and Umbral Aura with form change and travel powers removed are actually very well built powersets and quite frankly would be amazing powersets on brutes/tankers/stalkers/scrappers. But why? It's not because Luminous Aura or Umbral Aura would be any better on a brute/scrapper/tanker/stalker other than minor differences in hp caps and resist caps, it's because brutes/tankers/stalkers/scrappers actually have good damage modifiers and good primary powersets and ancillaries that complete the character. As Lib mentioned, there's alot of things that would be downright awesome when paired with LA or UA, because they can actually put out good damage when using those sets
PBs/WSs have poor damage mods, and many attacks with either long animations, poor base dmg, knockback, or all of the above and little to zero functional team support to make up for it. Now if you look at why LA or UA would be good on other ATs and then look back at khelds, the answer is obvious, they need higher damage output, animations lowered, and knockback removed. The problem is entirely seated in their primary, their secondary is fine, quite literally speaking the majority of khelds are sacks of hp on legs. -
Quote:Other <previous> developers should be. Arbiter Hawk has been doing a fantastic job as well taking feedback for the hybrid slot.Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Wow, other developers should be embarrased.
Kudos. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Synapse
I think the way the formula handles Area Factor isn't ideal and it over penalizes AoE proc chance in a way that is more harsh than was originally intended. So, I would like to address that somehow. Back to the drawing board on that part.Is it possible to just use the old flat % proc rates for aoe powers and PPM values for ST powers?Quote:Originally Posted by Synapse
TL;DR: I'd like to make the formula less punitive for players with global recharge bonuses and for powers with large area factors.
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I'd like to specifically address how this change will affect aoe powers. It is pretty well known at this point that PPMs are AWFUL in aoes compared to ST powers. Minimum proc chance will help, but in most cases the chance for PPMs to proc will be at that minimum (assumption based on current live model).
Overall I think the Area Factor is too harsh. If it's always taking the max radius and max targets hit as the factor, what about all the times that tha max radius and max targets don't come into play. What about all the aoes that are used as part of single target attack chains.
I'm not sure what specifically the Area Factor is, but what I feel it should be is # of targets actually hit (or hit rolled against, so misses factor in) so that AoEs aren't suffering when there aren't alot of targets. Radius, if it is a part of the factor, needs to be thrown out the window, if it has a better radius it will affect more targets, more targets affected will lower the proc chance without needing the equation to take a double whammy from being affected by the radius.
Basically what I'm getting at, is could you state exactly what the Area Factor is, Synapse, or better yet do a breakdown of what the proc chance would be for AoE attacks (like what you did for Stalkers Guile in AS) -
Make Luminous Aura and Umbral Aura powersets for brutes/stalkers/scrappers/tankers. Remove dwarf forms and travel powers to bring sets down to 9 total powers.
Make Luminous Blast and Umbral Blast secondary powersets for Blasters and Doms. Remove Nova forms and various other powers to bring set down to 9 total powers.
Remove Kheldian AT from the game. Powersets fixed. -
TBH, I'd rather they just make it so both SBEs and normal IOs both used flat % proc rates.
While some of the SBE's are pretty awesome (I bought a couple SBE decimation procs), I think that the system is overly messy, complicated, and unnecessary. The normal IO procs have worked just fine for years now. -
Quote:You can only fire off a power so often because of animation time.Originally Posted by Zombie Man
But if you're firing off you powers more frequently, doesn't that make the chance for proc go up?
If you have an attack chain that requires 200% rchg to run, and you have 300% rchg, you're going to be doing LESS DPS. -
Quote:A minimum proc chance that equals flat % proc chance would be good, dare I say, necessary, to make recharge buffs not crap all over PPMs.Originally Posted by UberGuy
I too am fond of the idea of a floor on the proc chance which could enforce that PPMs are never any worse than flat% ones. The creation of a 90% max rate suggests that this is technically possible (or will be in I24).
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Quote:In practice, Cold Domination trumps TA in -res, and for non-defenders, Cold Domination trumps sonic resonance as well.Originally Posted by JayboH
Yes - and Sonic is the best at -resist, followed by Trick Arrow actually. Traps is a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none (EDIT oops, master of -regen probably.)
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Quote:Quoting for emphasis. The 3rd change is going to make recharge a penalty.Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
This is a bad idea.
Recharge buffs will become a penalty as soon as you go down this road. We will have to built to a specific "cap" of recharge rate for any given build, very carefully not exceeding the optimum value for our attack chains. Speed Boosting a character who is already at their optimum attack chain will decrease their performance. Performance in a League will be HUGELY impacted when you can get tagged with multiple SBs, Chronishifts, Accelerate Metabolisms, et cetera. -
Quote:If you used a catalyst on an ATO that you didn't need to be catalyzed don't forget that you can use enhancement converters on it and then use it for a different toon that needs it instead.Originally Posted by Vitality
Ouch.
There goes a lot of wasted influence.
I appreciate the quick info. -
My favorite is my fire/cold corr.
My others include ss/fire and tw/elec brutes, fire/kin corr and troller, mind/fire and plant/psi doms, and a fire/elec blaster.
All min/maxed, pretty much as uber as it gets. -
Quote:This.Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
I would (almost) never roll a Kinetics Defender over a Corruptor. Corruptors have higher base damages, a higher damage cap, and Scourge. A Kinetics Corruptor can still damage cap themselves solo, even with their slightly lower buff modifiers, meaning they will be doing *way* more damage than a Defender, who's solo damage buff from Vigilance is meaningless to a Kin.
Corruptor damage scale of 0.75 * 5.0 (damage cap of +400%) = 3.75. I've read that testing indicates over the long-term that Scourge is about a 17% increase in total damage dealt on average. Factoring that in, you've got a total damage scale of 4.3875.
Defender damage scale of 0.65 * 4.0 (damage cap of +300%) = 2.6. That's a big, big difference.
The only time I'd ever go Defender over Corruptor for Kinetics would be to do Kin/Sonic, foregoing personal damage to instead be the best team damage amplifier in the game.
The only time Kin Defenders really out perform Kin Corruptors is the gap between 27-32 where defenders can exemp down and still have fulcrum shift, or from 32-37 leveling up when the Defender will have FS before the corr gets it. Otherwise the Corr is unarguably 100% better. -
Quote:The majority of fire/kin troller aoe dps does not come from fire imps. Also, speed boost no longer buffs rchg, but it still buffs the runspd of pets, which for fire imps is all they really need.Originally Posted by Beauregard
The first tends to favor Controllers, who simply let their pets do the damage. Unfortunately, builds such as Fire/Kin have been falling out of favor because it's relatively difficult to keep the pets alive in tougher environments and Speed Boost no longer works on pets.
A Kin Defender will absolutely not do "essentially the same dmg" as a Kin Corr. Both are going to be damage capped, corrs have a 100% higher dmg cap that defenders. I don't see why a corr would be using kin powers any more or less than a defender, the situations that kin powers would be used are exactly the same between the ATs.Quote:The first also disfavors Corruptors. If you simply flip a Corruptor */Kinetics build to a Defender, you get a build that also matures much faster but does essentially the same damage because you need to spend less time activating Kinetics powers and can spend more time nuking.
A Kin corr can damage cap the team/league and keep the team alive just as a defender can, you don't need defender mods to do that.Quote:The second one favors Defenders. A single Kinetics Defender is all the Kinetics any team/league really needs. A single Kinetics Corruptor/Controller is about 75% of what they'd like and if you bring a second Kinetics, you'll be wasting most of the value of that second player's set. -
Quote:In your example you said TW's 350 dps compared to SF's 200 dps, which is 75% more dps. It wasn't really a serious comment.Originally Posted by BrandX
I don't recall seeing TW having 75% more DPS than SF.
Though, yes, I do think TW's heavier end use makes up for some of it's performance. The other thing making up for it's performance is it's playstyle. Notice how it's a top set and yet isn't as popular as other sets?
That's not because of concept. There's lots of players who don't play based on concept. And TW's mechanic is deffinantly not a popular one due to the one attack being so slow for most people, nevermind the fact that for the next five+ seconds they're a giant weedwhacker. -
Fiery Aura is quite durable with 45% S/L defense and a moderate/large amount of recharge. Built this way you won't(shouldn't) have survivability issues doing tfs/trials (unless you're doing things like standin in pink circles in mom, not backing away from mael if targetted, getting nova fisted, etc, these things will kill you regardless of your armor set). A /Fire brute with 45% S/L defense and 17-25% fire defense (the typical amount of def(all) you get just by going for 45% S/L softcap) will be able to fire farm just fine too, at most just pop a purple.
As for fire/fire vs ss/fire the big thing for me is the radius on your main aoe (fire is 5' smaller than ss) and no rage meaning your patron aoe and burn will be doing less dmg on avg and no forcefeedback proc. SS/Fire will do much better, but that's not to say fire/fire can't be adequate. -
Quote:Ah, I didn't see that, regardless, in response to the 2nd point there were points when I was standing out of range standing behind amy unable to fire attacks.Originally Posted by ComixGeek
Dread, there was definitely someone who melee'd a bomb in the hall.