Dirges

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SR without IO's was BRUTAL when you would run up against enemies with any -defense. The cascade would lay you low even if you didn't run out of end.

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I would agree if you said before they made defense enhancements increase SR defense resists. IO's don't fix cascade defense debuffs.

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EA is no more reliant on IO support than any other set. The only ones who would honestly think otherwise are the ones who weren't around or honestly cannot remember how brutal the game became right after I5, the GDN and ED.

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I have been around since the start, and my experience is different.

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Wow. No traffic on this thread in a while. Are we all waiting for news from beta? Let's not let up folks. Keep chattering until I13 goes live.

We might only get one shot at this. What we'll get we will have to live with for a long long time.

Is everyone satisfied with the heal and toxic resist? Do we need anything else?

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As I said, the changes filled most of what I thought was wrong. So until I see if they do or not on test, I will wait.

Not in game they are elements.

Smash/lethal tend to be physical.

Fire/ice elements.

Energy/Neg are energies

Psy is mind

Now if you combine fire/ice/energy/neg into one category you get environmental.

I think these 2 changes should pretty much balance EA in PvE. It cuts down the toxic hole, leave psy as the common hole. Then gives a potential 40% heal with a sacrifice to end recovery or recharge.

It maybe that I am fighting ruthless instead of relentless, but my average spawn is 5 minions and a lut. Well over 100 dps. When I get home, I need to run some test with my regen scrapper.

One, 100 damage a second seems a bit low to me, especially on teams. Plus 100 was nice and round, that was why I used it.

Two, you are taking 60 dps with slotted shields? That makes 100 sound low doesn't it?


Also the math for 50 dps is.

After shields
ea 35.61
stone 39.77

With regen, BTW does your rooted regen include base. I havent had a chance to log in a chack yet?

ea 29.35
stone 27.27

Total dps
ea 51. 07
stone 54.97

BTW if you are going to use spawn distance as a way to increase survivability, doesn't that work for stones end as well?

Your numbers are about what I thought they would be. I also agree with your assessment of stone having to stop for end breaks. Though I don't see any breaks for health.

What I see using your base numbers don't favor EA.

Say 100 smashing damage per second. First figured the defense protection, and resisted the remaining, since we don't resist defended damage.

EA gets 16.5 defense and 7.5 resists. Totaling 71.25 damage.

Stone gets 12 defense and 7.5 resists. For 79.55 damage.

Now you add regeneration.

EA has 6.26 per second, so it takes 64.99 damage per second.

Stone has 12.5 per second, so it takes 67.05 damage per second.

So not even looking at earth embrace as a heal/hp buff.

EA will last 23.07 seconds

Stone will last 22.36 seconds.

So stone having to rest every 40 seconds doesn't matter. At all times both sets will every 22-23 seconds. With stone lasting longer when it uses earth's embrace for the 40% and 40% hpbuff, as well as the higher regen from the hp buff.


Edited to fix defense math.

Power boost would help several powers. End drain, heals, tohit buffs/debuffs, defense, and movement powers all improve with power boost. I would see it as a great alpha absorbing power.

No we are not wasting our time typing. The devs do read posts without responding. They are also willing to listen to our ideas, so not posting them would be a bad idea. When EA's time for change comes I am sure Castle will let us know what he is thinking of.

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I think I finally realized part of the problem with EA.

it doesn't synergize with itself.

Basically it's like this. the stealth makes it perfect for single-target snipping. everything about the set is geared towards single target... from the stealth to the fact that it doesn't rely on hordes of mobs to increase it's survivability... I mean, it doesn't even have a taunt aura.


the problem comes from just one power: Energy Drain.


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I disagree. The stealth has to go. It's counter-intuitive for a brute. Every other brute has a look-at-me aura except EA. Brutes are not stalkers. They need (fury) and want aggro (taunt in their attacks).

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No the stealth doesn't need to go. Dark armor has stealth as well, and I don't hear complaints about it's stealth. That is because it has tools to gain aggro without being seen. So just adding a taunt aura of some kind would allow EA to more easily aggro just what it wants.

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No, ice doesn't get EA's perks. EA can roll without stamina easily, ice can't without self-weakening or expensive IO slotting.

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So what does ice have to give up to have the same end management as EA? They both have a full blue bar every 30 seconds, and the same cost to run their defensive toggles.

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And no matter how many snide comments you make about people's ability to read, so far you haven't added anything useful other than 'make /ea more like ____'.

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Where did I say anything about your ability to read? I only assumed you didn't read what I quoted because of the tangent you went on.

I have also never said make EA like ice. I was pointing out that ice has the same end management of EA. So using end management as a reason for EA to have more weaknesses wasn't a good argument.

Though you could mean my suggestion as changing EA to ice. Though I thought it didn't change things much, but helped fill in weaknesses. All I had suggested was merging the 2 passives, and adding a new power similar to Energy absorption. Except it would grant regeneration instead of end. It still left holes in it's protection, but regen would help a little . It isn't an overpowered suggestion, nor does it make EA a clone of any other set.

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Ice also has no stamina requirement, and can keep their blue bar full. You see Ice has a little power called Energy Absorption, and it allows /ice to refill it's blue bar just as often as EA can. Then using the excuse of being able to use more pools, that also means ice can have conserve power as well as a pool power.


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Ice armor is very very difficult to run without stamina. It's useful shields net out to 1.56e/sec without adding in additional toggles for capping and survival (tough/weave) for someone who runs ice as a primary aggro magnet to tank effectively. with tough weave it caps at 2.21 end/sec. Very very expensive in endurance terms.

/ea can get away without being an aggro magnet and has less need for t/w, and thus can get away with about 1.04 end/sec use without the need for tough-weave. even with t/w it still caps at about 1.67 end/sec, which means that an /ea brute has a lot easier of a time running without stamina than an ice tanker. (of course this leaves out the fact that brutes attack a lot MORE, on average, than tankers do)

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Why don't you read what I quoted before changing the subject. I replied to someone saying that EA with Ice's extras would be over powered, because EA has such endurance control. I was pointed out that Ice has about the same end control. Yes energy absorbtion gives less end, but still quite easily gives a full blue bar along with it's extra perks.

I will also point out on just a survivability aspect, both sets use the same end cost. The only reason your numbers are higher for Ice is your adding the damage toggle. If your going to use that as a defense. I will also note that Ice will then take less attacks to kill, thus using less end.

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EA does not need stamina. It has resistances that are totally optional. If you guys start talking about making the set mimic ice to where you start giving it heals, HP increases, and massive global defense increases, AND THEN let players start building manuevers, weave, and aid self into the build, the set will be over powered.

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Am I the only one seeing the problem here?

Ice also has no stamina requirement, and can keep their blue bar full. You see Ice has a little power called Energy Absorption, and it allows /ice to refill it's blue bar just as often as EA can. Then using the excuse of being able to use more pools, that also means ice can have conserve power as well as a pool power.

That's no fair, we can't make fun of Joke Thompson anymore.

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12. No Legal Action threads.

Using the forums or PMs for encouraging, promoting, endorsing, or inciting any kind of legal action against anyone is strictly prohibited. Such content will be removed, and the author's posting privileges may be permanently suspended as a result.

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What is worst is even some of the mods are guilt of this.

Just to point out a Bab's response for another topic of similar nature. Yes I know he is not a powers guy, but he is a dev with a dev's perspective.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....v=#Post11271273

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I assure you, this thread is being read. As are most of the similiar threads sprinkled around the forums. You shouldn't misinterpret a lack of immediate response to every single post or PM to mean everything's being ignored.

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Considering that it's quite easy to softcap most /ea defenses, I think the prior Idea was not an idea, It was just another attempt to poke fun at /EA.

So, in the spirit of 'creative dialogue' can we please avoid trashing the set and stick to figuring out ways to improve it?

Of course, considering that despite sending messages to several rednames, none has even showed up in the thread to say 'It's far down on the power list' or even 'it's working as intended'. The best answer I have been able to come up with so far is "I am not prepared to comment on it." from Castle.

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I wouldn't call soft caping EA's defense easy, not when you compare it to SR. It may not be hard, but it does take some dedication to do so.


I still don't understand why you think a red name post means anything. A red name already stickied the post, that means they are aware of the problem and are looking into how to fix it. Until they decide how to fix it, they can use this thread to gather ideas from the community. When Castle and his crew decide what to try, and have the time to do it, they will tell us, but until then them posting means less then this post being stickied.

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2. Other pure toxic attacks are still going to be posistional. (EDIT: or rather, I am unaware of any non-positional toxic typed attacks) Given that you have the steadfast protection IO, and you really really should, you'll have about 8.8% defence against such attacks. That's still pretty pathetic, but it's not "none"

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That would still qualify as a no defense for /ea. Pulling from outside the set doesn't count as it's protection. You might as well say all EA's have fully slotted out IO's designed to just to fill the toxic hole. Which goes against how the devs balance the game, which is to use regular enhancements.

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Oh but they imcreased the animation times on Stone Melee for no reason, what a great waste of time.


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Or so they can fit the Stone melee animations in with the upcoming Shield defensive set. But dont take BaBs word for it at all.

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So are you calling Back Alley Brawler a liar? He said in a post and he told me that SM was changed for shields in a PM. He said if they were going to change any Damage Per Animation powers they'd start with Energy Transfer first.

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Not true. I said those power animations got looked at because we are working on shields. That's what lead us to discover the minor bug.

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Also it brings up a second response:

Why do minor bugs take higher priority over balance reasons?

Why correct bugs (That are essentially nerfs) when you have SERIOUS balance issues with animation times in sets? It once again creates unfairness between powersets.

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I think they're alowed to just fix bugs when they find them. Nice and simple. But balance changes require meetings and testing after testing round...

Balance changes just plain take longer. I doubt they do fixes preferanced over bug fixes. It's just in the time it takes to get one change approved and finished. They finish a dozen bug fixes

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There is also the fact that BaB's is an animation guy, not a powers guy. Another part of the company handles power balance. Once the powers team tells BaBs to change animations for balance issues he will get it done.

I am going to re-suggest my idea, since it was left off of the fist post.

Combine the 2 passives, and give energy an energy absorption like power that gives regen instead of recovery. It would help soft cap energy defense and increase defense a little, and helps against some of the weaknesses of energy.

I also wouldn't mind losing stealth, it is not needed if energy doesn't have as many weaknesses as it does.


For those that think the the devs don't care about a topic unless they respond, you are wrong. Out of every MMO I have played, this has been the best one for devs listening to the forums. They do read and keep up with the forums, they don't need to respond for them to know what people complain about. And having this thread stickied means, to me, the same thing as a dev saying we know the problem and are working on it.

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Ok good points.

But what about when you placate and you do get the green hidden status in your bar?

I have been hidden using Placate and had the green hidden effect come up. I have also been hidden using placate and it not come up. Does the game know the difference? How can we?

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If you placate and then dont get attacked for 10 seconds, you will go back into your regular hide mode. What probubly happened is you placated, then didnt attack or get attacked for 10 seconds without realizing it.

The only way you will know the difference is if you see the hidden status in your status bar. If you dont see the word hidden, then your not.

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So since everytime I placate, I get the word hidden, that means placate hides right. I can attack and immediatly hit placate, and until I attack or get hit I have hidden on my screen.


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When you use it, ONLY the player/mob you Placated is affected. That player/mob can no longer target or attack you until placate wears off, or if your placated hide is broken.


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This also is not true. If I come across a 3 minion group, I can AS one and kill it, placate the second and then switch to the third. I can the crit the third and scrap it to death with out the second one ever realizing I am attacking his buddy. If placate broke when you the hide from it was broke the second guy would auto matically come after me.

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I'd like to see the Damage Debuff. It's better then resistance, and team friendly. Place it on one of our AoE toggles, and it only helps us against melee targets (unlike Resistance). 25% or 50% or whatever... Saves us the one-shotting, and scales well with level.

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This I agree actually sounds better then resistence, any easy fix to make it work and not over power resistance tankers is to hard code the AV/Monsters with a certain percentage of unresistable damage, just like blasters in PvP. With lower damage the unresistable percentage wont affect resist tankers but would help bring ice up to the resist lvl of tanking.

I do agree that EA doesnt need to add all that defense, but it should still affect all mobs in range. Give it a hard cap so that all mobs are hit with the status affects, but it grants a max of 90% defense or so. I also believe it should grant resists as well, not a lot but 3% per mob with a hard cap so it doesnt max resists with one ability. It is sensible since EA draws moisture from surrounding enemies and layers it on yourself, so it makes sense that the attacks lose potency going through the layers of frost.

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For the record, set combinations that I think are "un-fun" now include, invul/*, */invul. Reason - end drain. For the same reason SS rage users hate sitting there..I hate not attacking. Pounding the keyboard waiting for enough end to regen so I can taunt sucks

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That is weird on my Ice/ice tanker my taunt takes no end at all to cast.

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And you know something, my fire tanker only has two attacks currently but I keep stealing aggro from the SS tanker with provoke-punch

[/ QUOTE ] Dont forget that all tanker attacks have taunts to them including damage armours, such as blazing aura. That can steal aggro easily if the other tank is just using attacks to maintain aggro.