Death_Badger
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Posts
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I find it strange that prior to Freedom, Incarnate access requires a retail code from Going Rogue, yet after Freedom goes live Incarnate access has nothing to do with Going Rogue, apparently.
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Quote:They get a token for the month of Freedom subscription and a token on their anniversary so miss out on nothing. Oh and they get tokens the next 2 months of subscribing as well which they wouldn't have had under the old systemOriginally Posted by Ultimus
Seen a few people talk about this and wanted to share it with everyone. The new Token system awards a token for every Veteran badge you have with the yearly badges giving two. The 13th of September is when Issue 21 goes live.
Here's the problem: People that were very close to receiving a new Veteran badge, let alone a yearly token, get a short end of the stick.
Example:
Account A is about to receive their 36 month Token on 14th of September. On September 13th though they are awarded 11 Tokens + 2 Bonus tokens for the two yearly Veteran Badges. (Yes there is more for having a game account code but ignoring that for now its not the concern)
However, had the patch been delayed for this person by 1-2 days they would be receiving 12 Tokens + 3 Bonus tokens.
Essentially, they miss out on two tokens equal to about 30 dollars.
I admit it sucks for these people, and others that were receiving a Veteran badge this month.
I wonder if it would be possible to create a grace period for the month of September and if you were to receive a veteran token during this month you get the associated tokens with it. (1 for a regular badge, 2 for a yearly) -
Quote:Originally Posted by Feycat
LOTRO and DDO are hybrids. So is this.
Maplestory, which is the comparison that Zwill used when he pointed out the dev's definition of F2P (free, no sub or tiers, microtransactions only) is free.
I haven't seen anyone "harping" that DDO/LOTRO is F2P except people who are arguing that CoX needs to be LESS restrictive and offer MORE for free. Not the people who are defending the current model.
Lotro and DDO actively advertise themselves as F2P as does Age Of Conan, Champions Online and Crimecraft. All have both subs and F2P options. Even many F2P games give you huge points discounts if you sign up for a recurring points package via Paypal. World Of Tanks generally has over 40,000 concurrent users just on the EU server and the whole of that game can be played for free , but that has a 'subscription' option in that you can spend points to be a premium user for a limited time, up to 30 days at a time for roughly the equivalent of a standard MMO sub.
It seems that the devs/subscribers of City of Heroes are scared to actually say they are a F2P game, as though there is some stigma attached to it. There isn't, Maple Story has over 95 million registered accounts. Crimecraft went into partnership with Steam in their F2P section and had to open up new servers, within hours they had smashed all concurrent user records.
There are massive amounts of people who will gladly play F2P games and many of them will pay over money to them.
F2P MMO websites won't make any distinction between whatever model the devs decide to call the game and F2P. -
Quote:Everyone who states that Premium players would get everything that VIP players get and never have to subscribe seems to forget that they get 15 servers worth of 12 character slots compared to 2. And also get 1/3 of their sub back in Paragon Points. And also get signature story arcs. And other stuff (the cost of the slots alone would probably come to many years worth of subs).Originally Posted by Prodiguy
I can see that being the complaint, but really, why would anyone pay monthly for a subscription if they can pay once and have access to all the features a VIP would? One large-ish payment and they get all the benefits of a VIP for the entire length of their time, essentially, while a VIP would have to continue to pay to have the same benefits. It essentially makes the VIP the WORSE option when it's obviously being planned for it to be the best.
The problem is that the point of MMOs is to have some constant stream of funding. If it were possible to get nearly everything the recurring payment group can get just by having one rush of payments, why would anyone do the VIP except to get access to Exalted?
To create a more constant stream of revenue from premium they could make incarnate access purchasable per character and charge for access to each raid. This would encourage them to produce new content that both Premium and VIPs could access. As it stands Premium players who want to stay Premium could be discouraged if they are constantly developing content for subscribers, and subscribers could be discouraged if they aren't developing content for subscribers. -
Quote:Because making events that free/premium players can't access or see will motivate them to take part in them how exactly?Originally Posted by Sun_Runner
I hope that the VIP server receives more and better than every non-subscriber-accessible server as a means to encourage play on the Exalted server and as a benefit to the "valued subscriber" to reward (read: encourage) their (continued) subscription.
Free Accounts are objectively inferior to a Premium Account. (Free Accounts are more limited than Premium Accounts.) Premium Accounts are objectively inferior to a VIP Account. (Premium Accounts are more limited than VIP Accounts.) Encouraging Free Accounts to become Premium Accounts and Premium Accounts to become VIP Accounts is something that they should be doing (as a corporation that desires to increase its' profits).
Making this pointedly clear by emphasizing the benefits of being VIP (over the alternatives) is something to be encouraged. Want the new shiny? Subscribe.
This, as well.
I seriously doubt any free/premium players will even look at the website/forums due to the fact they will be unable to actually do anything there. So how do they find out about how wonderful things are? -
Quote:You also get incarnate access as a subscriber and the First Ward quests, and non subscribers get 2 character slots plus any they have opened compared to the 160+ that subscribers get.Originally Posted by Captiosus
To be honest, I really do not like how they are handling subscribing members, at all. When you do the math on it, we get the short end of the stick in terms of "value". Why are we being forced to buy "premium" power sets as if we're freemium or just plain free? Other free to play games give those to subscribers for being a subscriber. Sure, one can argue that we're getting free points so, in effect, we're still getting it for free, but considering we get a laughably small amount of points per month compared to someone who spends $15 a month on points alone (4800 points + 13 reward tokens vs. 14400 points + 12 reward tokens), it rubs me the wrong way.
Complaining about 'only' getting $5 worth of free points a month is ridiculous when comparing the other added benefits of being a subscriber -
Quote:No why would I ?Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Are you prepared, then to withdraw your statements that:
and
(emphasis mine)
Because if not, I stand by my original statement.
I am quite aware that in order to play all of the characters I currently have I will likely have to buy a load of character slots (as a premium player around 160 less slots than a subscriber), and then I'll want to buy the Time Manipulation set and the other new sets, and access to the first ward quests.
I simply want the option to also buy Incarnate and IO access. Yes that lot would likely cost me a lot of money but I'd prefer to actually buy it than pay out an amount each month then not have access when I didn't pay. (not knowing the cost of anything or what exactly is going to be available within the store is something of a negative factor currently, It's possible that the stuff I want will get me to the point where I get access to IO's anyway)
I have 2 accounts with all expansions and all costume packs, the problem isn't that I don't want to pay it's that I can't pay in the way I want. Therefore I consider it pointless me messing about resubbing or buying passes every time I fancy a bit of superhero action.
In regards to the segregation of the community I truly believe it is a bad thing to prevent people having any access to the endgame. Even if it's a limited access its better than totally being blocked. What happens if the premium part of the player base grows to surpass the income of the subscriptions? That's basically what happened in EQ2X and development became more focused on those than on the subscribers. -
Quote:thatOriginally Posted by Arcanaville
Such as?
I am someone who would be classed as a non subscriber but willing to return if I like what Premium offers, and willing to spend money in the shop. the money is not really a bother for m. it does irk me that I would have to rent rather than purchase certain items.Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In other words, you're ceasing your subscription and you won't play as premium if premium is too restrictive. Either you were going to cancel your subscription anyway, in which case we would have lost you as a revenue source with or without Freedom, or you're cancelling your subscription *because* of Freedom, in which case you're cancelling your subscription because the other options are not to your liking. That is illogical on a grand scale, but it supports my contention that whether you say so or not, you want subscriber benefits without having to pay for a subscription.
I'd be happy purchasing Incarnate access on an individual character basis -
My scrapper Peril 11137 hours (and he's a reroll from DM/regen to Kat/WP)
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12 character slots per servers as opposed to 2 character slots plus any you have previously opened is a huge benefit in favour of VIPs which many people seem to ignore
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Quote:I think you are jumping to conclusions. I renewed my subscription simply to sort out my characters prior to the change to Freedom. Emptying mailboxes collecting Auction sales etc.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
However, I reiterate my original assertion. You still sound like someone that wants subscriber benefits without having to pay for them:
In other words, you're ceasing your subscription and you won't play as premium if premium is too restrictive. Either you were going to cancel your subscription anyway, in which case we would have lost you as a revenue source with or without Freedom, or you're cancelling your subscription *because* of Freedom, in which case you're cancelling your subscription because the other options are not to your liking. That is illogical on a grand scale, but it supports my contention that whether you say so or not, you want subscriber benefits without having to pay for a subscription.
This says unambiguously that the *reason* you don't want to subscribe is because you want to spend that money otherwise on ala carte items. That's tantamount once again to saying you want subscriber perks without having to pay for them, so you can *also* get what you're perceiving as a benefit of being Premium, which is to optionally buy what you want..
I only tend to dip in and out of MMOs nowadays so having a subscription when I may only play a week or two at a time seems ridiculous, especially with all of the other games out there to play. However I would quite happily pay for certain things so that when I did play I could play a full rather than a watered down game.
I don't want anything for free I simply want to choose how I pay for it. I prefer to drop a lump sum on a game and be able to simply play how and when I want. It has nothing to do with wanting to freeload. For the amount of time I play other games I pay well over the odds, but am happy with that as I don't have to manage a load of subscriptions and can happily drop into games with friends to do content. As the overview on the COH website says: Pay for the content and features that you want.
People tend to only ever pay out for one subscription to an MMO. I don't think that this model will draw people away from MMOs with endgames as they are getting no taste of it. (even if it were a cut down version of the incarnate system with only time restricted access to a trial and only one slot available) -
Quote:Exactly.Originally Posted by Nucleocrat
What I don't find at all attractive is the premium level model. Paying out money and still not having acess to lots of cool features and mostly importantly, the new endgame, just doesn't sell itself to me at all. I'd either subscribe or pay nothing under this system.
This problem would also get worse if they choose to focus future issues on incarnate content. That wouldn't exactly be promoting the premium f2p route. -
Quote:No I would rather play as a premium player but be able to pay for things like the incarnate system. I would quite happily spend money on the game (as with DDO and LOTRO and plenty of other F2P games) and be able to purchase things rather than having to subscribe.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Sounds like you wouldn't rather play the game as a premium player. Sounds like you want to play the game as a VIP player but just not pay the subscription.
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Quote:But Freedom IS coming.Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
But if Freedom never comes out, then you still don't have access to Incarnate content unless you resub.
If it does, then you can resub like you do now and have access to Incarnate content like you do now.
The argument that 'what if Freedom didn't happen' is getting reused all of the time. And its pointless. Freedom is coming and obviously the game needs it to survive or it wouldn't be happening.
By entering the F2P arena CoH is competing with a lot of games for cash, its also competing with the subscription games. It needs to actually be able to get money from people, and honestly I've seen very little that would warrant me spending money on this game when there are several premium MMOs being released in the next year or so. -
Quote:No, I want the choice, as with LOTRO or DDO to be able to buy all of the content rather than have to sub.Originally Posted by Jagged
You are not forced to resub. I've played my heavily IO'd characters on Beta when they were locked out and they played fine. Just create another build if its that much of a problem.
But you are saying that this is "pushing you away" which I just don't get. If you carry on paying what you pay now you will get the same and more. If you pay nothing you will still get to play. You will have gained a lot. So it does sound like you are complaining that you won't get everything you've got today for free. -
Quote:I would happily pay for access to incarnate content. though not on a ongoing license, simply a one time fee for access to incarnate abilities, then a further fee for each incarnate instance. Its a system that works for LOTRO and DDO.Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
No, it segregates the player base into the "pays" and "doesn't pay."
In your case, the "haves" are actually the free/premium players who get to play for free. The "have nots" are those people, like us, who are now without 15 bucks a month.
If you really want to ragequit because they are giving people who are paying the game a fraction of the game for themselves, by all means. But it'd be the stupidest horse one could die on.
So your solution would be... give free users access to Incarnates?
You people need to get it into your heads that people that choose to play a game as a premium or free to play player are not freeloaders. I will quite happily spend money on a game if it is any good. i bought all of the content for both DDO and LOTRO as I prefer to do that than to have subs running for multiple games. The game is going with a hybrid model for a reason, premium and free to play players should be treat with respect rather than animosity as they are the people that will save the game.
Who is rage quitting? I just resubbed to the game so that I can 'sort out' my alts prior to the release of Freedom. -
Quote:Where did I say I was screwed? You people seriously overreact when someone says something negative about your precious game.Originally Posted by TerraDraconis
I'm not seeing the problem here. You subscribe for a month get 400 points free unsubscribe and don't play for a month decide the month after that that you want to play so you spend 150 of your 400 points to unlock IO's for that month play then don't play then come back do the same thing and maybe the month after that you subscribe for a month and get another 400 points free and repeat.
I'm not seeing how your screwed here.
Someone focused on one part of the original post I made and ignored the rest. The biggest negative for me is that Premium players can never gain access to Incarnate content. This segregates the player base into the haves and have nots which is never, ever a good thing. Judging by the tone of people on this forum anyway there will be a lot of elitism simply due to whether or not you are a subscriber.
It also doesn't help that once again people who jumped over from EU to US and therefore had two accounts ARE getting screwed. -
Quote:Because £10 spent on a sub is £10 that I would have spent on other stuff, be it costumes/power sets whatever. I would feel happier being able to return to the game and buy a powerset or some costume pieces rather than being forced to resub just to play my old characters.Originally Posted by Jagged
That makes no sense. Previously you would have had to resub, post-freedom you will have to resub to get certain features. No idea why you feel hard done by? *shrug*
Plus if you have reached tier 7 you get life time access to the Invention system as well and at 45 months I think you are on Tier 6, so not long for you to sub before that happens. What are you complaining about?
I'm not complaining, simply stating that the way in which Freedom works will actively discourage some people from playing. People on these forums seem so happy to attack anyone that states they would rather play the game as a premium player. -
Quote:Actually there are a vast amount of F2P games that give access to all content at no cost.Originally Posted by UberRod
And you know, LOTRO is doing quite fine with their own version of this kind of free to play model.
I'm not seeing the problem that the OP mentions. Just getting access to the incarnate stuff would make me want to plunk down $15/month for a subscription. And the added benefits of Premium come at a small cost.
You can't give away everything and still expect to make money, and as a business the devs do need to make money doing this, or soon there will be no game to complain about.
If you go into any free-to-play game and expect to have access to everything for free then you are being extremely naive. Want full access? Well then, subscribe to the game for $15/month.
Look at most of the F2P games and you will find inventory space/appearance gear/xp boosts/consumables are the big sellers. -
The major flaw I see with Freedom is locking out non subscribers from the endgame (incarnates)
Its a ridiculously bad move. A lot of people that play other MMOs that are likely to be drawn to this game play for the endgame. The fact that CoH is holding that to ransom is somewhat ridiculous. Presumably a move to satisfy current subscribers that they are worth more than those premium/f2p types.
I personally have endorsed many f2p/hybrid games within my gaming community as it's easy to get a few people in when the price is nothing. Most of those people then go on to pay money for stuff within the game. I won't be endorsing City of Heroes simply due to the fact that some of the key features (crafting/base building/IOs/Incarnates) are far too restricted. (And I certainly don't agree with those that say teh other superhero MMO is less restricted, they completely subverted the whole game in order to make it work in f2p)
I hope CoH is successful, but personally this is likely to be my last month subscribing. I'll see how restricted I am as a premium before dropping any money on the new powersets, as I'd like to try those.
I'm one of those people that the premium system will probably push away for good. in the past I've subscribed for short bursts meaning I have 45 months veteran status on one account, 27 on the second, meaning I'll be short of what is needed for the invention system, which is the one thing that keeps me coming back. All of my 50s are IOed up. So in order to play them I'd need to resub each time which sort of defeats the whole point of premium. -
I have to echo the sentiments of the majority in this thread. I don't find SR in the least bit squishy. The easy softcapping, the huge DDR, the recharge buff and the resistance on the passives all combine well to make an extremely solid set.
The only reason shield can compete defensively with SR is due to HOs buffing DDR and IO set bonuses. I also find SR to be a very slot friendly set, nothing in the set needs a great deal of slotting in order to be effective. A cheap SR build will always be better defensively than a cheap shield build and i'm pretty sure no one wants to spend billions on every alt. -
Outside of melee alts I have at 50 several trollers, 2 Veats, a defender, a blaster.
I'd highly recommend a crab spider, a fortunata or an ill/rad troller -
Looking at the following build, not too expensive, trying to hit a decent balance between defence and offence
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Quote:Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
I would hate to think what your opinion of Fire is then.
I actually prefer Fire as you get a heal and end recovery tool far earlier than with elec. Elec is incredibly painful to level, which is what has informed my opinion of it. No heal until 28 and most mobs in the 20s don't use energy = a feeling of severe squishiness. No end recovery until 35 = chugging blues or resting all of the time due to the toggles you are having to run to have some semblance of survivability. My elec brute is currently stuck at 32 as I can't face logging her on, undoubtedly the set will shine where energy and psi are prolific, but that isn't in the teens,20's or 30s that I've found. I've also seen every brute I've ever done ITF with chewed up and spat out by Cimeroans, unless they use powersurge.
And as a clarification of spending lots of inf, my view of that is informed by the builds i've seen posted on here, never seen a build for /elec that would cost 500m or less. -
Quote:Post your build then so we can see how moderate and how surviveable it is?Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
My moderately IO'ed SS/Elec would like to tell you you're incorrect.