Dasher

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I'm painted myself into a corner again me thinks.

I've seen alot of reviewers, Talen_Lee, dragonslay, and Lazarus, and the top guru of reveiwers hailed by Positron himself, Venture, all seem to agree on one thing:

Defeat All as a flag should never be used.

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"Never" is such a harsh word.

Dasher

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"Never" never means never. It means never. Which means that if ever, there better be an awfully good reason. And probably not even then.

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LOL, ummm, no, what you are talking about is "sometimes".

"Never" means "never" which means (literally) "Not Ever". Period.

If someone uses it to mean "sometimes", they aren't speaking English, they aren't using it correctly or they are deliberately misusing it.

Words have an exact meaning.

Dasher

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I'm painted myself into a corner again me thinks.

I've seen alot of reviewers, Talen_Lee, dragonslay, and Lazarus, and the top guru of reveiwers hailed by Positron himself, Venture, all seem to agree on one thing:

Defeat All as a flag should never be used.

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"Never" is such a harsh word.

I come down on the side of it being okay on a small map or for a specific story purpose.

I played a "Defeat All" last night that was one long Boss Hunt on a REALLY big map (the flooded ruined city). Basically, the mission was to take out a Villain supergroup.

Now, it wouldn't have been so bad if there had been only one of each villain, but re-spawns over a map that large meant seeing clones of the same six custom characters over and over again. Despite the fact that each was very cool looking and had interesting power mixes, the repetition drained the fun out of the activity. When it was over, I had over 950 tickets from that one missions and I realized "Oh, it's a ticket farm mission."

I'd have much preferred one each of the bad guys with all of them Elite Bosses on a Tiny map and it would have felt more like I was actually taking down a group of super villains. And yes, I'd have happily passed on all those tickets.

On the other hand, I use "Defeat All/Final Room" quite often. Especially if the enemy is defending their Big Bad Boss or WMD, then it can make sense story-wise to give them a dash of fanatacism.

So basically, I try to treat "Defeat All" like any other spice, and use it for flavor, not for taste.

Dasher

"Like every system we design here, the Mission Architect system has been a labor of love that we have poured over every little decision on."

"pored over" ("The scholar pored over his books.")

not

"poured over" ("The syrup was poured over the pancakes.")

Dasher

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Will Mac and PC users be able to play together on the same servers?

Will there be some way for PC users to get the "special" Mac costume and Power items?

Will Mac users (eventually) get 36 character slots per server?

Will PC users who change over to Mac machines be able to retain their PC-originated accounts and characters? (Note that this is a serious consideration for those of us ready to upgrade our machines who don't want to deal with Vista and are therefore considering Macs).

These and many other questions to come, but these are the most important ones I could think of at the moment.

Dasher

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yes.

yes.

I don't see why not.

Yes.

It's the same game, same servers...different client. Client is free, if you buy the box you get the additional stuff, if you don't want to buy the box you'll be able to buy a thing that'll give you the additional stuff probably for $10 or so, judging from past advances.

All of which have been answered in the thread already. Not to be a jerk or anything, but a lot of your questions have probably been answered somewhere in here.

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Cool, thanks.

No worries, I didn't think youi were being a jerk, and I didn't mean to sound like an ignoramus, I just didn't feel much like wading through 20+ pages to find what I was looking for, so I confess I asked in a sort of generic way hoping to get a more concise response.

Far from thinking you a jerk, I agree you are right about the info already being here (somewhere)... but I also very much appreciate your answering, anyway.

Dasher

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I don't understand why you're making it even easier to travel to a mission. At least considering giving it a very long recharge timer.

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Um... you enjoy spending a lot of time traveling to missions?


*waits impatiently for the PC version of the power*

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Sounds like just another ADD-accommodating sop to further invalidate our Travel Powers.

Why fly/run/jump when you can log out at your Day Job, come back in 30 minutes and teleport?

And it will probably be suppressed in Pocket D, too.

Ho-hum.

Dasher

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Well, generally a dying game doesn't expand to more platforms, so I'd imagine this is yet another sign of confidence from NCSoft about CoX's future.

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Heck, this game stopped dying the day it was pried from the thick, comics-ignorant talons of Tyrant (AKA Statesman). It's been getting healthier day by day ever since.

Unfortunately, he's still at Cryptic where he's now busily ruining another long-waited MMORPG.

Really, I wish he'd stick with his stated desires and go back to academia. That field is so far gone there's little more damage even he could do to it.

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Now that people can't blame all their problems on PvP, we can blame the Mac users!

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I don't know anybody who blames their in-game problems on PvP, as such; they blame the execrably bad, lame, wrong-headed way it was glopped onto the game with invalid conclusions drawn from irrelevant data generated by inapplicable test environments. (Once again, thanks, Tyrant!)

Dasher

Will Mac and PC users be able to play together on the same servers?

Will there be some way for PC users to get the "special" Mac costume and Power items?

Will Mac users (eventually) get 36 character slots per server?

Will PC users who change over to Mac machines be able to retain their PC-originated accounts and characters? (Note that this is a serious consideration for those of us ready to upgrade our machines who don't want to deal with Vista and are therefore considering Macs).

These and many other questions to come, but these are the most important ones I could think of at the moment.

Dasher

Name: Dasher
Global Contact: @Dasher
Level of Classification: Security Clearance 50
Origin: Science
Super Rank & Super Group: Founder, .GUARDIANS.

Change is bad.



Dasher

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One last nit pick... you claim all you have time for is a KTF, yet you would rather them fix the CoP trial? Really?

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Yes.

Really.

I don't think I was the one who said it this time - in fact, I don't even know what a "KTF" is - but...

Yes, really.

Yes.

A THOUSAND TIMES, yes.

I want the Devs to FIX THE CATHEDRAL OF PAIN TRIAL BEFORE THEY DO ANYTHING ELSE.

But after all these years of playing, I have learned that there are three great, immutable pillars that comprise the foundation of CoH...

1. What the paying customers want (this hope-for-better things is, after all, what maintains the cash flow);

2. What the Devs promise (these flippant blue-sky proposals help fan the flames of sunscriber interest to support Pillar Number 1);

3. What the Devs are inclined to do (This is what the Devs are willing to commit to within the constraints of what they can accomplish given skills + time + budget).

...and I have learned that NONE of these three elements have anything whatsoever to do with each other.

The only one that really matters is Number 3.

In the words of the long-gone-and-unlamented CuppaJo: "The Devs are happy with the way it's [Travel Power Suppression] working and there are no plans to change it."

Get it through your heads, everyone:

If what you want is something the Devs FEEL like doing, then there is a chance it may happen.

It doesn't matter what people ask for in how many polls; Shields were the Number One player choice at least two Issues ago, after all.

You will GET what the Devs FEEL LIKE giving you.

If it's too much trouble for them to make it work - Faultline Trial, Cathedral of Pain Trial, Huge Female Body Types - then you will not get it.

QED.

Dasher

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Now, I have my doubt that they'll ever do it again, now that sg's can have 150 members...

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By the way, on that note, our SG is nearly full.

Again.

I can understand keeping a level cap at 50 (sorta), but it would be nice to be able to fit in the folks we'd like to welcome.

Especially now that - thanks to some jerks - those of us who DON'T loot the storage bins of our Coalition pals can't even donate to them anymore. So, once again, the honest and law-abiding are punished for the actions of the Twit Minority, may their souls rot in Hell.

Dasher (Hero of the City, Protector of the Innocent, Founding GUARDIAN and firm believer in the death penalty without appeal for felons, hackers, and cheaters of any stripe)

Gee, this is a FASCINATING idea...

http://www.badge-hunter.com/boards/i...showtopic=4187

...and yes, I (and no doubt others) have only been suggesting it since CoV was first announced.

You're welcome.

Dasher

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OK, let's be honest here, people. There's been a lot of immature response to this.

First, hero content vs villain content: Heroes have a lot more. It's a well-known and loudly-complained-about issue. Over twice the zones, with a *lot* more in the way of content. And there's NO. SUCH. THING. as an unstoppable PvP build. (Ask my roommate's "unstoppable" crab, which got mudholed by my "lolscrapper" 4 times out of 5. And I'm not a PvPr except by badge-lust and SG badge-need.)

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The heroes have more zones, but they really don't have all that much more content. Volume, yes... mass, no.

To give credit where it's due, the villain zones are more efficiently designed than the hero zones (obviating the need for so many "hazard" zones), with more "depth" reflected in the wider variety of mission types.

Hero zone missions still labor under a cookie-cutter motif: Fight mobs, click glowie, exit. The Faathim the Kind TF has about a dozen missions consisting of cave-clearances and simultaneous glowie clicking. Ho-freaking-hum!

Villain missions overall, building on two years' experience and the acquisition of talented scenario designers (tip-o-the-mask to Shane Hensley, to name but one), enjoy a far superior depth of detail, scope and feel than the vast majority of hero content.

As for "unstoppable" PvP AT's, the problem is not that any one type is over- or under-powered (although several are, and undeniably so), but that there are a few types which can ONLY be countered by other specific types.

This would be bad enough if good, solid, tactical play was actually valid in PvP combat, but it's not; an optimal build with the sort of Enhancements available to power-builders will trump a good, solid, character-driven design every time.

The very fact that players can field builds which are optimized specifically for PvP is a glaring flaw in the design system and its vulnerability to abuse.

Burning a music mix CD does NOT make one a musician; building a perfect Yu-Gi-Oh deck does NOT make one a "strategist", nor does copying a PvP-specific AT from a website and filling it with purple Enhancement sets make one a better player than the people with ATs that Uber-Build is targeted to destroy.

It just makes them a better plagiarist.

Remember: Games are like any other interpersonal relationship - sports, war, work - they do not build character, but they do reveal it.

Dasher

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I love in Posi's letter how he talks about 'rewards' for the missions created by the users. How it was bantered back and forth in the office with raised voices. I have a nagging suspicion this means no xp/influence/etc for these missions in which case. Crappy system and count me out. Not gonna bust my butt to create tons of missions that grant absolutely no reward.

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Then you missed the entire point of the mission creator.

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Oh I got the point. I got it a long time ago. This is a great way for the devs to have the players create content for them so that they don't have to. We already provide free Q&A services when we Beta test the issues. Now they want us to be quasi-content creators. Then if were lucky enough to be sprinkled with the blessings of 'Devs Choice' then our mission will give rewards. Great.

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Nor are we surprised, those of us who have been here since CoH beta or shortly thereafter.

Some of the most intriguing content promises have disappeared as vaporware (Faultline Trial, Cathedral of Pain Trial) or resulted in the most horrendous design gaffes (Travel Power Suppression, Enhancement Diversification, sgregtaed hero/villain powersets, Stalkers), with all customer complaints being responded to by the Devs with the same dismissive expressed by the now-gone (and-unlamented) CuppaJo's reply to howls of customer fury over Travel Power Suppression, as she perfectly summed up just how much she learned in Customer Service 101: "They [the Devs] are happy with the way it works and there are no plans to change it."

So now, when a mission is designed, approved, voted into existence by the players and found wanting by subsequent events, we can look forward to the Devs being able to dodge criticism for it and the players attacking each other for the perceived faults.

There are two other things you can also look forward to, at least if I ever get any of my missions into public availability:

1. When they suck (and some of them no doubt will, they can't all be gems) I will take full responsibility for doing a crappy job and apologize to anyone who was honestly inconvenienced by them. Note that I will NOT apologize if they are too tough or if players don't "like" them. Errors are accountable, taste is not.

and

2. If I can fix them, I will, and if I can't, I'll yank them or warn everyone off them and refer players to Point 1.

Two things I can be absolutely sure of...

If the friends in my SG's and Coalitions play them and say they're not good (or outright bad), I can spare myself the embarassment of making them publicly accessible and bury them in the backyard in the dark of a moonless night.

If that same group says they are good (or even, dare I hope, worthy of repeated play!), then whatever the Dev's think of them won't amount to a fart in a whirlwind in my assessment of own creation.

And those are those only criteria any of YOU out there should listen to, as well.

The Dev's opinion has never mattered to me before, and there is no reason to start worrying about it now.

Dasher (Superspeedster FIRST, everything else second)

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Yesterday, my wife and I played the Level 24 Respec Trial for Heroes with a very good pick-up group. Now, that is always a fun battle, but how much more exciting would it have been if there was a team of opposing players trying to destroy the reactor while we were trying to save it?

The Trial proceeds normally from start up until the Reactor room is entered, then an announcement goes out over the Zone Alerts: "Alert! A team of (number) super-powered (heroes/villains) is attempting to (repair/destroy) the Terra Volta Reactor! A super-powered response is urgently needed! Teams have five minutes to access the mission!"

If your team is the same size as the one in the Reactor Room, you can get there through any train/ferry/helicopter, first-come, first-served. Difference in team sizes can be compensated by NPC reinforcements and/or auto-levelling.

Success/failure in the mission ENDS the Trial with no rewards!

Thwarting the opposing player's mission builds credit toward an SG badge that grants plans for... the Fusion Generator!



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No thanks. Unless this is a SKIPPABLE option, no no no thanks. Don't force me into PvP.

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Nope, absolutely not, and I apologize if my post implied that I would EVER advocate forcing ANYBODY into ANY in-game situation to acquire items (like badges or re-specs) that should be available across the board.

Howver, since there are so many items/badges which are already available only through PvP venues, I merely suggest this option (and it's ONLY a suggestion) as an example of how to make PvP "worth" doing.

I would expect the original system would remain in place, definitely.

Check my previous posts, and you will see I do not advocate any sort of limitation on the paying customers' access to playing the way they want to play.

Rather, I am an advocate of the polar-opposite reverse.

To paraphrase a famous excahnge:

"How can we make [the game] better for you, the players?"

"Laissez-faire!" ("Leave us alone!")

In plain English: "If the only way we can win the game is by playing it in a dictated way, why bother to play it at all?"



Dasher

Hm.

More things for villains... okay.

More stuff for Stalkers... oy vey!!!

Okay, the problem with Stalkers and villains in general is simply that when they created them, the Devs proceeded from the flawed assumption that "alignments" were necessary, or even valid, followed by poor interpretation of Arena data gleaned from pitting heroes against heroes.

What came out of this was a mismatched mess where villains dominate PvP and, after a couple of years of teething issues, are beginning to do the same in PvE.

Stalkers are still fairly weak in PvE, but they are so grossly overpowered in PvP as to be pointless to fight unless you are running a purpose-built PvP hero designed to deal withe them. And Night Widows are fast catching up with them as being even worse.

Seriously, has ANYONE tried taking a Warshade or Peacebringer into Recluse' Victory? If so, have you done even close to as well as an Arachnos Soldier or Widow? Do we even need to hear the answer?

One of the saddest limitations this puts on the game is the lack of enthusiasm for PvP among regular players. There is simply no compelling reason for participating in PvP.

Yes, there are badges for those suffering from OCD. There is the "I-got-my-butt-kicked-by-the-school-bully-so-THIS-will-make-me-feel-better" mentality (or lack thereof), there's the just plain obnoxious twit aspect (AKA "I-AM-the-school-bully"), there are even some base modifications like the Fusion Generator which can only be had through PvP victories, but who needs it? Our base is overpowered as it is, and we're running a secured area Vault for the Cathedral of Pain/Item of Power vaporware. (See? We DO have a kind of faith in the Devs.)

Here's an example of one way to make PvP truly worthwhile:

Yesterday, my wife and I played the Level 24 Respec Trial for Heroes with a very good pick-up group. Now, that is always a fun battle, but how much more exciting would it have been if there was a team of opposing players trying to destroy the reactor while we were trying to save it?

The Trial proceeds normally from start up until the Reactor room is entered, then an announcement goes out over the Zone Alerts: "Alert! A team of (number) super-powered (heroes/villains) is attempting to (repair/destroy) the Terra Volta Reactor! A super-powered response is urgently needed! Teams have five minutes to access the mission!"

If your team is the same size as the one in the Reactor Room, you can get there through any train/ferry/helicopter, first-come, first-served. Difference in team sizes can be compensated by NPC reinforcements and/or auto-levelling.

Success/failure in the mission ENDS the Trial with no rewards!

Thwarting the opposing player's mission builds credit toward an SG badge that grants plans for... the Fusion Generator!

Now you have a PvP-related reward - the Fusion Generator - that is earned by actually doing something that is relevant to the award, and which makes the PvP logical, instead of a mind-numbing progression of pointless ganks, duels, and "can-you-top-this" CoX versions of a Yu-Gi-Oh deck-building exercise, or even instead of a mechanistic "defeat-the-AI" key-tapping session.

The fact is, unless you are of the very limited imagination mindset that thinks perfect building is the same as good play (or that mixing music on an iPod is the same as being a "musician"), then PvP holds no allure for you. It is, in fact, an annoyance, if not an outright detriment, to your enjoyment of the game.

All that having been said, the Issue 13: Architect expansion promises to lay the groundwork for the most important - and long-needed - change to CoX since its inception. With the ability to create our own missions, we can finally generate missions that will ignore the artificial limitations imposed by the "hero/villain" concept.

Because, let's face it, a Corruptor who jumps into the middle of a trio of Spines scrappers to heal a dying Brute is doing something pretty heroic, and a Blaster who waits until NPCs have clipped a Dominator down to 25% health before plastering him with a snipe is a villain no matter what he calls himself.

Comes now the promise of an eventual end to all that silliness:

Player-generated Co-Op missions.

For my part, I don't intend to design any missions that are NOT co-op missions, in every possible setting where I can place them. If that means everything I make will be in Cimerora or the Rikti War Zone, then yippee-skippee, dust off your Level 35's-and-highers, folks, and come on down. I promise everyone will have a good time.

The fact is, a nice guy is a nice guy, and a jerk is a jerk, no matter what they say they are playing. By their actions, ye shall know them, and I can't wait to start playing all my characters the way I have envisioned them from the start, the way the very best characters have always been realized: As flawed, imperfect people with astonishing gifts that, as in any good game, do not develop their character, but reveal it.

Let the Dawn of the New Age begin, can ya give me a WOO-HOO, brothers and sisters?

Dasher

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I'd just like to know if there's going to be any advancement of the "big picture" story here. So far, it looks like QoL improvements which rawk, don't get me wrong, but (call me petty) I wanna see what the heck they're building in SC.

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A rocket launch pad for access to the projected Moon zone.

Maybe the Cathedral of Pain is on the dark side of the moon...

Dasher

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Okay, this day job thing? Isn't that basically rewarding us for NOT playing the game?

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Or you could see it as an understanding that we can't play the game 24/7 and is intended to reward us for inevitable downtimes by establishing a sense of roleplaying which roleplayers can enjoy and non-roleplayers don't have to worry about.. I think it's a nice touch, kinda ingenious, actually.

And, truth be told, I am not renowned for my warm regard toward Dev "innovations".

Now, what would make this "Day Job" thing REALLY cool is an extra costume slot that must be used for some kind of civilian garb, together with an emote that lets us transform into our superpowered alter-egos when we get off "work".

AR/Dev blaster leaves work at the animal hospital and sees a crime in progress:

"This looks like a job for... THE VET!" He's a veterinarian AND a veteran! He's... THE VET!

I know it sounds awful, but don't be surprised if it shows up on NBC one of these days...



Dasher

I am blown away by the prospects offered with this new expansion. Take your time, it will be well worth the wait!

Finally, we can design our OWN "Cathedral of Pain" Trial, and sympathize with the Devs if we can't get it to work!

Seriously, though, this is the most exciting news since CoH itself.

Now, if you would just phase out that silly four-second Travel Power Suppresion after every attack, we'll be fully back on the right track again!

Dasher

BRAVA!

Thank you for this VERY helpful post!

Dasher

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I understand that point of view, but respectfully disagree with it. The Eden trial has some of the most interesting maps in CoH. The Sewer trial is also a very unique experience. Despite it being "dated", it is still valid content. It'd be nice if the bugs in these trials were fixed, including the Titan-O issue. Could it perhaps give a SHOE instead for those lvl 40+?

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But what about those of us who have "alternate-life-style" feet?

And, in keeping with the genderization of badges and awards, would it be a woman's SHOE or a man's? Stiletto heel or workboot? Or would a unisex "persun's" SHOE be preferable?

We must also be considerate of players whose cultural heritage does not predispose them to wearing SHOEs as we commonly think of them in our narrow, ethnocentric western mindset. Would a mocassin (AKA "moccasin" and "moccassin"), or a pair of sandals, be culturally insensitive? What about the vast cultural pool of perfectly valid societies which are not predisposed to wearing SHOEs at all?

Then there is the pet issue; ultimately, pet owners will begin playing CoX with their pets in attendeance. This demographic has already been addressed with the costume option of shoulder-borne pandas and cats (though admittedly, the sexist restrcition of these options to female characters does leave the practice open to justifiable censure). Surely the pet-owning player deserves consideration as well. This would require a SHOE that horses could wear, dogs could chew, cats could relieve themselves in and fish could use when bicycling, and although what use a parakeet might have for a SHOE is certainly open to interpretation, the game must recognize the right of that parakeet (and their human partner) to make such a decision for themselves (in respectful dialogue reaching a fair compromise, of course).

In closing, this decison to eliminate, truncate, reduce, re-state, devalue, redefine, and otherwise alter (in any quality-enhancement sense) the essential nature of any in-game reward should be reviewed with the same deep regard and respect for the wishes of all CoX players that has been shown with every other such modification implemented over the long history of the game.

To wit:

"Lets wrap this up, I've got tickets to Weezer... heads or tails?"

Dasher

Ugh. I can't see the point in giving "Ice anything" to Stalkers, unless the Devs find a way to limit it strictly to the PvE side.

As it stands now, Stalkers in PvP are absurdly overpowered; Ice sets would just give them yet another palette of hold/slow abilities to augment their already ridiculous (and yet, recently improved!) Stealth/Hide abilities.

Stalkers in PvP are silly enough as it is.

Dasher

Heh.
Heh, heh...

While waiting for today's Download to Apply, I finally got around to reading THIS in the Patch Notes for 5/28:

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Stalker Update

Increased Stalker Melee damage multiplier from 0.9 base to 1.0 base.
Increased Stalker Hit Points multiplier from 0.95 to 1.125
All Stalker melee attacks now have a chance to critical while not hidden. This chance is equal to 10% plus 3% per additional team member within 30’ of the stalker at the time of the attack. This only applies to PVE targets. Stalkers old chance to critical Held or Slept targets now only applies to PVP targets.
The Critical portion of Energy Transfer operates exactly as if you were criticalling from Hide -- it eliminates the Self Damage, rather than increasing damage to the target.
Using an Assassination attack and missing will no longer suppress Hide (though lesser stealth and invisibility powers will still suppress) if the attack misses. If the attack hits, Hide suppresses normally.
Hide Suppression for Stalkers reduced from 10 seconds to 8 seconds.
Assassination attacks now cause a demoralizing effect on PVE targets that survive the attack. Demoralized targets To Hit value is reduced, and the target may be frozen in terror.


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lol...
LOL...
LMAO...
ROFLMAO...
ROFLMAOPIMP!!!!!!!!!

Oh, mercy! Because Stalkers weren't ALREADY ridiculously over-powered!!!!

As they said in "Bored of the Rings":

HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW!!!!!

<wipes eyes>

It's always so cute when kids try to act like they know what they're doing when they crunch out numbers and think it's "balance"...

Heh, heh, heh... oh, mercy...!

Dasher

I just have to take a moment to tear myself away from revelling in Issue 12 and say:

FANTASTIC JOB!

Beyond the usual teething problems - and these are fewer and fewer with every new issue - and the usual annoying typos - really, gang, you have GOT to learn to spell! :-) - the game just gets better and Better and BETTER with every new expansion.

JOB

WELL

DONE!!!!

Now just get rid of that silly, stupid Travel Power Suppression and it will be on the way to being perfect.

Dasher

These are still fun, but they need a teeny bit of variety, and the easiest change I can think of would be a badge for 10 Drop Ships.
Yes, I know, this means that non-flyers would not get to participate, or could only do so in a limited fashion.
Guess what? My major characters DO NOT HAVE FLY, so this does NOTHING for me, but I would STILL make every effort to take part with super-jumps, rocket packs, team buffs, even the loathesome Group Fly just to do this Super Cool Thing.
encourage us to attack the Drop Ships as if they were Giant Necxt round of Rikti invasions, let us get a badge for taking out Drop Ships.
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez?????????

Dasher