Darth_Khasei
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:True...sometimes.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The entire game rewards challenges based on difficulty and time - the Incarnate system is no different. -
Quote:Some people will always be outlanders so to speak and they generally get their desires balanced with the rest of us people that understand its not going to be the same rate just like the 1-50 content when its teaming vs soloing. YMMV.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Not when some people still seem to be wanting it to be just as fast as the Trial path
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Quote:I think EVERYONE here that has played the game for as long as I have (5yrs) understands the solo path is going to be slower than the larger trials and I don't think that is at issue with anyone posting here. Soloing 1-50 is slower than teaming 1-50 and nobody has stated they expect it to be different, so you repeating its going to be slower is superfluous.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
They've said it will be slower than the Trial path.
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Quote:If you think the TPN could use some of the improvements Snow Globe listed then you do agree. I have run ALL of the trials many times on my 35 50's all to T3 or 4 in all of the slots. I have had good and bad trials as I have mentioned more than once. The issue has NOTHING to do with running the trials once or twice NOTHING.Originally Posted by Amygdala
I disagree.
To the OP:
While I think TPN could benefit from some minor improvements, I think you'll find that after running it a few times, it is actually a very simple trial. I would not give up on a trial after one bad experience. -
Quote:The stupid goal of the devs to get people to run the trials "the way they want us to run them" may not have changed(it should its a TOTALLY retarded goal), but the design has too or you run into the problem of people not playing your new content, hence the design changes made so far to "encourage" people to play the other trials beyond the BAF and LAM.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Basic design goals don't change in beta - the 15 Empyrean idea was to reach the goal of getting more than just BAF and Lambda run on a regular basis - based on player feedback, they changed it to giving more rewards for the other Trials - the goal was the same, it was only the method that was changed.
Dark Astoria is already done - the design goal is for a solo Incarnate path that's slower than the Trial path - that goal won't change - all we can do is affect the methods used by the devs to reach their goal, not the goal itself.
By the time any beta comes around, it's already far too late to make any changes to the basic ideas behind the new content - a good recent example would be the CoT revamp or the superpacks - we managed to get both of them tweaked, but the design goals behind them didn't change at all.
The basic design goal of Dark Astoria is already in place - the zone, story arcs, enemies and rewards have all been based around it, and that can't be changed - we'll be able to tweak the zone, story arcs, enemies and rewards with our feedback - but we won't be able to change the baisic idea behind the zone - a solo Incarnate path that's easier and slower than the Trials
I have not seen a red letter person state what their goal is with the incarnate solo path and anxiously await to see same, confident that if they do another 15EM deal, most people here will respond in kind. YMMV. -
A couple of things, first the rewards are random, have nothing to do with your AT or your orange numbered participation you would get the same chance roll at the end table if you just stood at the door.
Next, you need use distortion bubble on the door(addiing the hold proc works wonders), also consider get either the cims or polar lights to t3-4 placing them right in front of the door as well.
Been holgging doors like this for some time now on several different toons, MM's (Thugs/Time. Bots/traps) are some of the best door holders in the game. YMMV. -
Quote:Yes, this is "one" way to do it, not the only way and far far from ideal for the majority of players in the game overall.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Because it takes longer to form leagues, and they have tougher challenges on them - the DA enemies are 50-54, and the Trial enemies are 54+ - solo content also doesn't requie the amount of co-ordination and teamwork that group content does, and because it's less complex and difficult, there's less chance of solo challenges being failable.
Leagues take longer to set up, require teamwork and co-ordination, fight the toughest enemies in the game, have the most complex mechanics - that's why they give the best and fastest rewards in the game.
One thing is for sure, when it hits beta/closed is when we will "all" actually know what the devs real ideas are and we can provide proper feedback as we did for the 15 EM gating mess. -
Quote:I think we left this kind of thinking several pages ago. This is not about the trials being too hard or people being morons or lazy. Makes me wonder if one has actually been following the thread or just lazily spot checked and decided "incorrectly" the issue is the level of difficultly vs the reality of poor design choices that is at issue here.Originally Posted by Matthew_Orlock
The methods needed to sucessed in all of the Incarnate trials are all mind numbling simple. The only reason people in this game think they are hard is because..well people are complete morons when there are so many players running around they don't think they have to work as hard or read League chat. I see the same problem in that other game's Insanced based Largescale pvp maps. No one follows direction and everyone Zergs..even if you need to do more then just zerg..people just ignore everythign and zerg.
That isn't the Dev teams fault, it's the Leaguemembers fault for being a lazy and Unattentive. -
Quote:Golly gee I really really hope they don't do this. What I am tired of is working to get powers only to have those powers not available or reduced with the last centuries standard Super Hero plot device of "reduced" powers. Blah dev weaksauce not desired.Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Well, not necessarily to that level, but possibly keeping the level shift *whilst* getting reduced to 3/4 - 1/2 "Incarnate" power effectiveness
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Quote:There is no new money in that, but with new powersets they can charge us so its a no brainer.Originally Posted by AkuTenshiiZero
How about they stop releasing new powersets for a little while and make some of the old ones look less like a**? Mastermind pet customization. Alternate Claws animations (Actually, every melee weapon set, claws is just the worst offender). Gun options for Blast sets.
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Quote:Gosh darn I really really hope they don't do that kind of junk.Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Oooh like good old Anti-Magic from Dungeon and Dragons Master...
*bzzzt*
Whats that, you are a level 20 wizard who is *only* capable of casting a single cantrip a day (cantrips being classed as level 0 spells...)
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Quote:Siphon Power is a essential power to reach the maximum potential of the KM set.Originally Posted by Neeto
Is siphon power needed in PvP for this set? seems like a waste of animation time right?
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Quote:I don't think "any" players are responsible for the gimmicks in the Keyes, MOM or TPN trials. That is the sole domain of the devs.Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
They do already. This is pretty much standard for any MMO dev team, they listen to whoever ******* and moans the loudest. And it shows *looks at the sad state of the keyes trial and the overall difficulty level of everything else in this game*
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Yup, its not perfect, but it looks pretty close.
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I hate the run away AI in this game. Always have always will because they are not going to change it, because they (the devs) think it is a good idea and makes sense.
Then again these are the same guys that thought gating additional incarnate powers behind 15EM's made sense. Go figure. -
I feel this too. My response was to delve deeply into the MA and make my own enemy groups to fight when I am bored of fighting the standard in game foes.
I have also made "costumed" enemies AV's and EB's to fight ala the showdown scenario. While not perfect, it certainly fills the gap for "me".
My Thugs/Time MM eats +4X8 for lunch so I had to do something for a challenge. -
Quote:This is some serious poppicock.Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
Im probably going to come off like a real prik but I am just going to try and be honest.
Being from virtue I am all to used to the concept vs functionality arguments. And in my defense when I run TFs which is everyday when I play, I am not picky about any ATs....except the kheldians. Warshades I tend to be more open about because with little effort or costs they can spec to be tp stealthers at very low lvls. Be assured if your a shade on virtue and asked to join a tf it is expected you can fully stealth by lvl 14. If you cant your a piker shade.
The reason/problem is simple a good blaster can out dps and out tank either form at the same time. A good tank can to. And if a scrapper recruits you its only because of your utility potential.
and then there is the whole human form thing. A well made human form is power beyond the ken of mortal men. You meet alot who try to recreate the function and form of the icon that is the man of steel. Most use tanks or brutes, occasionally scrappers but imo all fail to live up to his standard.
Now a peace bringer in human form with the right pools, and IO sets with a team to further buff him. Now that is superman in this game.
Just food for thought when considering a kheldian. If your going to be in a team do you want to be subpar dmg and subpar tank at your whim, or a Power beyong all others. -
Quote:Love that material. Kinda sad most of these great discoveries come from the defense/weapons guys first.Originally Posted by ebon3
A metallic micro-lattice that has a lower density than aerogel
http://www.hrl.com/hrlDocs/pressrele...ls_111117.html
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Quote:The devs actually need to listen to this guy and Snow Globe. They have outlined the issue very very well.Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
This is about the best post I've seen on any if the Incarnate Content.
Sadly I fear it'll fall on blind eyes. The Devs know what's best for us. Trust them -
Quote:Yet most of the leaders I have run this trial with on Freedom have this restriction for both the TPN and MOM. I will say that one leader did lead well and put the AOE focused people inside on the TPN, but that was the one exception.Originally Posted by UberGuy
That's a needless self restriction. All you need to to is point out to the leader that you shouldn't be devoted to fighting Seers, assuming your league assigns anyone to that. (Many do not.) The notion that AoE-centric characters are no good in the entire trial is mistaken.
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Quote:UnderstoodOriginally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Good for him for demonstrating what a poorly designed Trial the TPN really is.
True.Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Nothing says "Uh. We pancaked up." like "Here's a power, NOW DON'T USE IT!"
Which brings up another point that IMHO is being overlooked is the fact that MOM and TPN require you "not" to use certain powers, Depending on the build and AT this can go a LONG way in making these trials UNFUN.
The entire don't use this or that power because of the gimmicky way the devs set up the trial is basically an auto-failure in terms of something being easily accessible and attractive to the wider player base. I didn't go through 50 levels of content to get to powers that now I can't use in certain I trials because of the design. That is failsauce to the extreme. -
Sorry, when people say that people like Snow Globe has made suggestions that "dumb things down", I wonder if they even read and more importantly "understood" what the man is actually saying.
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Quote:Quote of the day!Originally Posted by Steelclaw
Things I wonder about while I play...
* So now Sister Psyche has a voice in her head that constantly tries to usurp her control, get her in trouble and generally ruin her life... and this is different from most women... how?
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I have a Fire/Fire that just melts things. Fire/DA is not a bad choice either, go for it.
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Quote:This, Snow Globe's posts and others like this need to be sent in an e-mail to the devs.Originally Posted by _eeek_
Complexity is a bad thing in a group of 24 players.
It works in a group of 1. Sometimes. If you're not cooking dinner, replying to tells, or asking your teenager what time they're coming home tonight, and reminding them to call if they're going to be late.
Personally, I dislike anything in the game in which I'm not given instructions in the game. Cutscenes could be used to visually explain what needs to be done, rather than explain about why it's being done (insert bosom joke here). Instead, maps could be utilized, with pulsing stars showing where the mission objectives are, and what they look like. Sutter does this in the ship portion of the TF, and it's well done, and much appreciated. Especially when I can go back and refer to my own map.
Any - and I mean ANY - TF or Trial in which you need to have done it a dozen times before you understand what on earth you're supposed to do, is a fail in my book. BAF would be a pass, because it's easy to understand, filled with action, and the action changes quickly enough to avoid tedium. LAM is fail, because you do have to know which way to go for acids, which way for grenades, where to dig for them if they're not in your tray (in my POWERS?! Seriously??), you have to know where they are on the map, and you need to have the +'s on your level 50 (yes, those very +'s that you are running this trial in order to get), in order to survive it. Yes, it does show you where the portals are and what they look like. But it doesn't show you where the timer is, and that you'd better wait until it hits 18 or the entire team will yell at you. Plus, I find it sort of tedious drudge work up until you fight the Big Guy (which I have to say, is a WHOLE lot of fun!).
I do like a challenge. I like the STF (regardless of any level-boost), for example. Challenge isn't the issue. The issue is the TYPE of challenge. A challenge of skill is great! A challenge that requires a high level of experience in order to succeed, and requires that every single teammate has that level of experience, is a challenge that is not great. Topping it off and saying that you need 18-24 of these experienced people who have nothing else going on in their home/sg/phone/doorbell/dog or personal bladder imperatives/etc., and can thus commit 100% of their energy into completing the objective in order to be likely to succeed?
Yeah, right,
I do wish the creators of the Trials would look at which TF's and Trials people actually enjoy doing, and ask "why" (besides the rewards) a bit more. I mean, ask us, the players. Positron has stated that people do the BAF because it's easy. I think that may be mistaken. At least, I know it's not my reason. First, it's not easy - at least it's not easy for lvl 50's without any pluses. It's just easy to figure out. User-friendly (The BAF is the I-Pod of TF's!). Those new to the Trial can be given a few simple instructions, and you still have a good chance of success, even with new 50's. It's action-filled, which keeps it exciting. And it it does not, in general, feel like herding cats, even if I'm one of the cats.
Ask: why does everyone do the ITF? What makes THAT fun, even though we've done it a zillion times? Why does NO one do the Cathedral of Pain? Why is that UN-fun?
Complexity, cat-herding, and one guy who who just got their first toon to lvl 50 and doesn't understand what to do destroying an entire Trial = bad Trial.
Action-packed, swift-moving, skill-based challenge which can include some brand new 50's just learning the Trial and still have a reasonable chance of success = fun Trial
PS These are just my own opinions. There is no intent whatsoever to put down anyone, or what anyone enjoys doing. I word things strongly when I feel strongly, But my feelings are certainly not facts, so there can be no "right" or "wrong" about them.
The reality is people are not running the trials and people like this cat and Snow Globe have told the devs why and what to do to fix it. Unfortunately the devs and a small vocal group of forumites are not really listening or really trying to "understand".
Instead you have the devs originally trying nerfs, and thinking about punishment and restrictions for not playing their way. You also have people trying to tell others that they should be having fun playing something that they just explained is flawed, why its flawed and how to fix it.
If there is one thing I would like to get across to the devs and fellow forumites is this is not about having failed a trial or trials being too hard. Its "ALL" about the wider player base and why they play the content and why they play some content over other content.
Until the devs develop a mindset that takes this into account they will continue to produce hit and miss content and since there are answers to Positron's questions they "really" need to listen to the answers.
I like and respect the fact that their are players here MORE than willing to lead a pug in an itrial to "prove" they can be completed, and they can. Kotchie led my first TPN and he is an UNREAL leader. He must have a ton of TPN specific binds because nobody could type that fast and play the game. He had paragraph's long instructions at the proper time etc.. I have run several since then but nothing like the leadership shown there and most of the group was running it for the very first time.
Having said all of that it goes back to what is at the foundation of the problem here, after a successful first run TPN, the league pretty much stated it was not as fun as other trials and because of that they would not readily run it again and certainly not over more fun activities for them.
The answers for Posi and the rest of the devs has been given several times in these threads, its on them to listen now or continue down this unfortunate road wherein he "thinks" people play the BAF more because its "easy". That my friends shows a serious disconnect that surely needs to be reconnected moving forward and I hope for all of our sakes that it is, because I LOVE COX.