Darkjedi

I'd love to see this piece done up in 3D and have been doing more pin-up style stuff recently, but I can understand if 3D isn't quite what you were looking for.

However... a 3D Turbi-Ski would be great fun to create!

I look forward to seeing what you get together =)

Woah... I just stumbled into this thread...

*grabs popcorn and takes a seat*

There's a white smear on the UI. What do I win?

I know this isn't COH related, but it's still fan art

Anyway, just showing my latest piece.

GREEN ARROW and BLACK CANARY

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...Do you make them conform in Poser, or are you offering un-conformed OBJs and textures?

[/ QUOTE ]

I build entirely everything from the ground up. No Poser...

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't make myself clear. I'm not asking if you make your models in Poser because Poser isn't really a modelling program to begin with. I'm asking if your models are eventually made to CONFORM in Poser.

I model my own stuff in MAYA. I do all the UV mapping and texturing in that platform because of the power available. Once the model is done, I then import it into Poser for placement in the proper position on the character. My own limitation is that I don't know how to make a model CONFORM to the character, bending as they do.

So my question was, are you offering fully Poser-ready props, or are you offering OBJs that need to be placed manually?

I'm asking because I have a major project on the horizon and I need to hire modellers. I'm searching for people with the right skill-sets and your post caught my eye.

[ QUOTE ]
For some reason the links above aren't working. I'll fix that eventually. I have some of my work on my Deviant and plan to update it accordingly today.

And yes, please! Give me challenges!

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you make them conform in Poser, or are you offering un-conformed OBJs and textures?

[ QUOTE ]
Celtic Bolt does great work!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. And he gets better all the time.

I use Paypal. It's fast, safe, and fairly universal.

But at the moment, I'll also accept a 24" - 30" flat-panel, wide screen monitor. Got a spare and want art? Call me =)

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I should have noted I am not into making my art a profession...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's cool. Whether professional or hobbiest, I'd still recommend drawing from life and not copying any set style.

But it's your choice. Above all, have fun and good luck =)

I guess the reason I don't have a FOO piece is because I assumed you were busy fighting.

OK... bad joke...

I would *strongly* urge you to get a true 'how to draw anatomy' book before you go the route of Manga and Comic style books.

I know... your eyes are already glazing over... but stick with me here.

I started some of my earliest explorations into drawing people by copying an old show called 'Star Blazers' (Star Cruiser Yamato). I could faithfully draw most of the characters and used that stayle as the basis for many of my early drawings. But then, I was asked to draw something that wasn't from the show... and I froze up. I didn't know how. I didn't understand how muscles work, how shadows fell, or how clothing wrinkled.

Once I got to college and my eyes were truely opened to art, I became humbled by how GOOD the other students were, and how many BAD habits I had developed. In my pride, I told myself I was a good artist because I could draw fast, dynamic images... but in my heart I knew they were just smoke and mirrors.

I had to UN-learn everything and start over. To this day, I still have some bad habits from my Manga days and tend to draw people with oversized eyes and triangles for noses... and I jealously admire the works of Scott Campbell and Adam Hughes, who's works are both unique and expressive, while maintaining a GREAT grounding in true anatomy.

Please... for your own future... don't start drawing by copying Manga. Once you can draw a true human form, you'll be able to mutate it into any style you want. But get the basics down first.

If you start by copying Manga, you will be setting yourself back a decade. I know - I did the same thing.

[ QUOTE ]
...This image, after lots of post, still has the hallmarks of Poser: bland lighting and rendering, a generic stock feeling to the characters, poor plastic-looking materials, etc. Batman's cape looks like it was a ball of hot plastic that melted over him...

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your critique.

I'd like to point out a few things that break down your line of reasoning somewhat. You mention that the piece still has several hallmarks of Poser, and include the lighting. However, It was not rendered in Poser. While I agree the Poser render engie in completely unacceptible, you can't credit the lighting in this piece to Poser since I haven't used that engine for renders in years. What that tells me is that my OVERALL lighting methods still need work.

You mention the 'generic, stock look of the characters'. I modified every one of them. Some more than others, to be sure, but they aren't stock.

You also mention 'poor, plastic materials'. That, again, would be my own fault and not the Poser. Many 3D critics aren't familiar with the recent advances in Poser's material capabilities and assume it hasn't progressed in the last few versions. Poser 7 now includes subsurface scattering, reflection/refraction, bump, trans, tex, and all the usual methods as well. The problem with Poser in the area of texturing tends to come from the user base not understanding how to maximize their textures... and in the case of this piece, I also skipped a few of those advanced elements in the interest of time.

And finally, regarding Batman's cape - that's not the poser cape, but a cloth simulation run in MAYA with some post-work retouches.

So where does this leave me?

While I'm overall happy with the piece, and it achieved the effect I wanted as far as 'pure' modelling (with minimum postwork), I think I'll still use extensive post-work for clean-up. I'd *like* to have models that can handle the necessary emotes completely, but for posters and pin-up shots, there are elements that the computer just can't handle to my satisfation. I'm on the fence and still exploring...

Thanks for the feedback.

*EDIT* - Note to Battlewraith; I know Poser is a pretty low-end tool, and it's completely evil in the wrong hands. 99% of imagery created in Poser is really quite bad and hurts the 3D industry. But there are a few experts out there that can really make the program sing, and some of the best 3D I've encountered relied on Poser. Plus, I know it well and have heavily invested in it. I don't have the time or interest to learn a new package based on prejudices... because when you get down to is, every 3D package has it's pros and cons.

I think my personal strength with it comes out when I use it as the first step of a piece and NOT the final, as so many others do. I'll probably continue to rely on postwork as I have in the past.

[ QUOTE ]
I need an Avatar and I want a unique fan made Avatar. So that every time I see that Avatar I'm reminded why I do my Job, because you guys make this game great.

I'll pick my favorite submission March 31st.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too bad you're looking for an avatar and not a full-out poster. If you were looking for a portrait, I'd be all over this.

Looks cool... but that watermark is making it hard to see very well.

The pose and lighting are very cool. I only have 2 minor suggestions (and these are VERY minor indeed);

1 - Her upper arm isn't twisted out, but her forearm is. When we rotate our forearms out, the motion carries upstream a little and rotates the upper arm too. If they were both rotated out about the same, her arm would look a bit more convincing.

2 - The leg that's bent has a little divot on the bottom that's characteristic of Victoria 3. In reality, that little divot is only there when the leg is straight or bent back because of the interaction of the leg and bottom muscles, but not when it's bent forward. If you smoothed that out in Photoshop, the leg would look great.

Just my 2 inf. Keep it up!

I love your lego work! This one is no exception =)

I'm surprised how much resistance there is to backgrounds. Juggy, this is an EXCELLENT challenge, and one I wish I was a part of.

IMO, the background can make or break a piece. That's where you get your lighting (sunset? Mid day?), your backstory (King's Row? Talos? Altas?), your supporting cast (Skulls?), and minor details that can really bring life into a piece (trash, grafitti, dumpsters, arrested bodies).

If I were teaching, this would be a full topic of it's own.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
plus adding emotion to their faces. Poser is SO bad at expressions that I'm taking more time than usual to get it right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh cool, that's one thing that was bugging me, a few of them didn't look right regarding their facial expressions. Vixen and Superman and Red Arrow stand out in that regard a bit, thought it was just me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Naw, that shot was meant to be 'posed'. Future ones will be more active.

[ QUOTE ]
... have you tried an image where all the heroes are looking directly at the camera/viewer?...

[/ QUOTE ]

This idea has been brought up several times, and possibly should have been implemented. But now that I've published the piece to several websites, I doubt I'll change it. That is, unless DC calls me, at which point I'll make ANY change they desire =)

[ QUOTE ]
...Once you get the heroes' looks down, will you do other poses and group shots to show them off?...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm already making several action shots. I want to get more motion into the pieces, plus adding emotion to their faces. Poser is SO bad at expressions that I'm taking more time than usual to get it right.

[ QUOTE ]
I've long thought that if one could get enough of the base elements together, it would be a much more efficient process to create a comic with a 3D program over drawing it...

[/ QUOTE ]

BINGO!

[ QUOTE ]
The only problem is that currently programs like Poser aren't as good at rendering images and scenes as traditional art, at least to my mind...

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe me, you're not the only one that feels that way. My own brother wants me to go back to traditional methods... but I prefer to push the envelope. I learn something with every 3D piece, and it's exciting for me to get results I didn't have to meticulously plan out and hand-draw.

But as you said, digital art isn't quite mature enough. I want to be the pioneer that makes it happen.

Here's the problem; if I were to try to enter the comics world, I'd probably succeed. I'd probably do pretty well at is... but I'd be one of a hundred-thousand others that can all do just as well. Some even better. But with digital, I'm trying to accomplish things no one else has succeeded at yet. The few forrays into digital comics have all pretty much failed, so if I can make it work, I'll have something unique. Something special. Something different.

Besides, if we can have cartoons AND live-action versions of Batman (for example), why can't we have traditional AND digital versions in print? I think they can co-exist. One does not need to replace the other.

So I push forward.

[ QUOTE ]
Very very well done....but..

No Flash? You have The Black Vulcan, but not The Flash? =[

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean Black Lightning?

As mentioned above, it's the current roster. I did that purposefully, because I hope to send this piece to DC (along with several others in the works), and I want to demonstrate knowledge of their current universe.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Regarding postwork in general - The purpose behind modelling the characters as accurately as possible in 3D is specifically to avoid excessive postwork such as repainting faces. If I were assigned to create a full comic, there is absolutely no way I could do an entire issue (let alone a mini-series) where I needed to repaint every face on every panel from scratch. Thus, I'm leaning towards the comptuer-generated faces and trying to perfect those likenesses.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if I have this correct, you could, for example, have a 3d with Tanks or Ms. Frost's face done up, then it would be somewhat less labor intensive to do a second piece with a different costume, background, etc.? And so, while the initial cost might be higher, follow-up work might be less expensive? For example?

Not that I'm implying anything here, just ruminating.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... kinda.

Usually, the largest effort in a piece is setting up the entire environment, background, lighting, and the time it takes to render that piece. If I added a second character, I don't automatically double the cost because my computer is still only rendering a single piece of art... so the time isn't doubled.

But you're essentially correct; now that I have a 3D model of Ms. Frost done, that effort is pretty much removed from any future pieces. That assumes she stays in the same costume. However, the base cost/effort of setting up a new scene and the time it takes to render is still there.

Hypothetically, of course.

[ QUOTE ]
Are you going to leave it as is, or do post work on it?
...

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, there's actually quite a bit of postwork on it... from combining multiple renders (I only did 3 characters at a time), to repainting hair (Wonder Woman), to fixing lighting (green on Green Lantern), to color adjusting skin tones and costumes (Superman).

Regarding postwork in general - The purpose behind modelling the characters as accurately as possible in 3D is specifically to avoid excessive postwork such as repainting faces. If I were assigned to create a full comic, there is absolutely no way I could do an entire issue (let alone a mini-series) where I needed to repaint every face on every panel from scratch. Thus, I'm leaning towards the comptuer-generated faces and trying to perfect those likenesses.

[ QUOTE ]
... And are "you" happy with it now?

LJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I'm not quite happy - there are issues I would like to change. But it's that "never-happy-place" that drives me forward to make the next one better.

I know this isn't COH... but it *is* fan art, right?

With all the great feedback I received on the test piece a week ago, I was able to adjust the models and start getting some final renders. This is the first piece of what may be a whole series of images based on 'the big boy's' characters.

Thanks for looking =)

JUSTICE LEAGUE of AMERICA - in Poser 3D stuff