DarkMaster

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Take 2 ppl that never play this game.

Give them a Brute and a Blaster (or a tanker and a Dom)... and let me know who will win.

Than take 2 skilled guys (same skill) and do the same thing... and again let me know who ll win.

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While I see your point, I must also point out that there are just sooooooo many different variables to consider with that scenario. It's really just not as simple as "Blaster vs. Brute".


You have to consider the primaries and secondaries of both players, IO slotting and Accolades must also be taken into account, each perspective build and what powers were taken are important, the location of the fight (tigher encounters such as the monkey cage or train station can cause several different outcomes), inspiration trays are important factors, as is whether or not it's a "1-kill-1win" match (like most zone duels) or a standard "10-minute duel", one build being the "kryptonite" of another build (such as Psi vs. Energy Aura Brutes) is another very important factor.


And thats just to name a few. Once all those things are considered, then we can start to see who really is "better" between the two AT's in a standard duel.

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EA is okay, but if there's another Brute on the team and s/he has a taunt aura, your Fury generation is gonna be sucking.

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Will pairing it with a AoE centric primary help to maintain aggro?

I'm running a Elec/EA right now though she's still at the low lvls.

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Yes, pairing it with an aoe oriented primary will definately help your aggro management and control. I also think that you'll be quite pleased with ELM/EA, it's a pretty good combo imho

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I know that Stalkers lay down the hurt on stuff, but is there a reason to role a Stalker if one isn't interested in straight solo play or PvP? What do Stalkers bring to the table that makes them worth partying with?

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Taking out troublesome LT's and even minions can be very helpful to many teams, especially if those Lt's/minions happen to have alot of debuff powers. Also, assisting in taking out the bosses of the spawn is another very helpful attribute to a Stalker.


All that said...however....I DO believe that somehow (I'm not sure how yet) we should be able to actually "defeat" bosses better than we currently do in the late game. Sure, in the early half of our careers we're taking out bosses within about 2-3 maybe 4 attacks, but that quickly goes away the higher in level we get. Personally, I just think that stinks. I've had many times were I've gone in to AS a boss, only to have a couple of Brutes and/or Corruptors deal just as much damage as I have and kill him before I can even get off a second attack. To me, that's a little disheartening.


I think it'd be nice if somehow the dev's gave us a little "boost" in our boss killing ability. Like I dunno, maybe give us an extra 50% chance in pve to deal a "double" AS or something, but only on Boss classes and above. I don't think that'd be asking for too much, and it would definately increase our usefulness while on teams for boss killing. Just a thought.

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Your post in this discussion is completely un-necessary. You're simply ranting and crying some more. That's not needed here.

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Actually that post was probably the most appropriate thus far because it suggested that the most-effective AV and PvP build would be mutually exclusive.

I wanted to post something along this lines suggesting that a PvP build is not always best suited for PvE content. For example, AoE attacks aren't as great in PvP because a lot of your focus is on a single enemy vs. several in PvE.

The complaint about i13 PvP might not have been justified, but to someone that knows nothing about PvP, they might be shocked at the advice that flurry is actually pretty good in PvP.

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The advice is welcome, it's his whining that was not.

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Air Superiority, Kick and Flurry deal twice as more damage in the new i13 PvP than all of your usual melee attacks.

Is it stupid ? Yes. Is it a joke ? No.

If you dont believe me, check the dmg for each attack in your Mids set on PvP mode (that you should do anyway as you're building a PvP toon).

And now you can guess why most of the good pvpers left the game in i13.

It's sad to see that most of the players completely ignore the total absurdity i13 PvP is, and keep fighting with their usual attacks as if they were any good...

If you really want to build for PvP, dont take your Dark Melee attacks, but Siphon Life and go for the pool attack powers... (Or reroll into a SS/ it's the only "barely-useful" melee primary, because of Rage).

PS : set your Mids in Options/Configuration/Effects&Maths for "Show Value for Players (PvP)", and check it by yourself before building anything for PvP. And therefore if you wanna solo AVs too, you obviously need to use the dual-build feature and get 2 distincts builds, one for PvE and one for PvP. With this new system it cant be compatible.

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Your post in this discussion is completely un-necessary. You're simply ranting and crying some more. That's not needed here.

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Mastermind's are an incredibly powerful AT if you attempt to fight one head on. Thing is, that's the only way they can fight; when an opponent chooses to fight them.

So yes, they are very, very powerful. But they're also immobile. Just choose not to fight them and you're good.

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As others have stated, MM's can be very powerful, if you decide to take them head on. However, if you do not, then they aren't all that tough.


I'd say, one of the most effective uses of an MM, and others have stated this as well, in zone is to sorta "setup" an in zone base camp/sanctuary, where villains can run to when they need support/heals/buffs. But even then it's not fool proof. One thing that an MM "can" do requires two people thinking on their feet. Basically, the MM can have his buddy go out and Webnade a target (so that he can't jump) and then the MM can target that web'd player and TP-Foe him into his armada. If there are a couple of location slows in place and you have some teammates there to provide more damage, chances are the target is not going to escape, unless he's fast enough to pull of phase.


But yea, dueling an MM can be a totally different story.

If you can fit resilience without easily enough without leaving out something else that's very important, then take it, sure. But if you will be forced to leave out a much more important power to take resilience, don't. Chances are, if you're making a good build (with pvp in mind), you won't have room for it though.

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Psi/EM, Sonic/EM, Arch/EM Blaster. Fire/Regen, BS/Regen Scrapper. Fire/SS, Inv/SS, Shield/SS Tanker.

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Why the shield/ss tank? All the others make sense, but that one.

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Because Shields on Tankers is quite godly in zone pvp believe it or not.

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Nice damage. Very squishy.

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what he said.. I didn't take BE nor BU I'd imagine you'd be doing nice damage with both.. I liked having extra powers..

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Uhm....always take Build Up and FE on a Fire/Fire Brute....

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VEATs dmg was nerfed by 15%

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And that, is just about as [censored] retarded as it gets....wow....last I checked forts/widows didn't need ANOTHER friggen nerf....they needed a buff..


Once again dev's...gg....gfg....

I LOVE my Fire/Fire Brute. I don't think you'll be dissapointed.

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from patch notes. Arachnos Widows and Arachnos Soldiers PVP damage on all powers slightly reduced to correct for it using an incorrect high modifier.

Been out for a while. Anybody know what the current pvp range and melee modifier values for forts, widows and banes are? more detailed info would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

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Wait, so Widows and Banes got nerfed "even MORE"? Is this new info? They got a damage reduction?!? If so...I can't fathom why...they haven't been all that since the pvp rolling pvp nerfs...so I can't see the justification for such a nerf. Unless it's to completely discourage SoA's to pvp at all...ever...

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As far as the "lethal" damage goes, it doesn't really matter in pvp anymore, as all resists hover within about 3-5% of eachother (in zone) now anyways.

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Only sorta true when talking about squishies. When you start throwing melee classes in the lethal res becomes much more apparent.

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Somewhat, but even still, I don't find it all "that" apparent. For example, my ELA Brutes outside of pvp have somewhere well over 100% +res to Energy Damage, however while "in" a pvp zone, my +res to Energy Damage is a mere shadow of what it is in pve, sitting at only roughly 60-65% at best (maybe less..I'll have to double check. Definately not more than that though). For the most part, most resistances start to cap out just like Defense does, which is at about the 46-56% mark. It takes quite a bit to push them past those marks in pvp anymore. Even while Tier9'd, resistances and defenses only net minimal gain.


I'd say that the only exclusion from this is Psi damage. Yes, for the most part you "can" get "psi resistance" to be about equal to all other resistance types, and Psi will "also" cap out around the same 46-56% mark, however, tier9's (such as Unstoppable and PowerSurge) do no grant the same "universal resist" values that certain toggles like "Tough" from fighting do. This means that when you pop your tier9 for more resistance ALL of your other resistances will see a minor increase (roughly 12-18%) accross the board on all damage types, all that is, except Psi damage. So until tier9's are taken into account, [u]all damage types are roughly equal[u] in pvp these days, and even while tier9'd Psi only pulls ahead by a slight margin over other damage types.

Ah, see, now biff is getting alot warmer to the explanation that the OP wanted I think lol, and thanks to that, we're able to have a real comparison discussion:

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/elec also gets buildup. /thorns attacks do largely lethal damage, which is more resisted.

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Thorns get's Aim, which while it isn't build up, is still a decent damage boost and an awesome tohit buff. Furthermore, Thorns get's a ton of -defense attacks which means that after you start landing attacks with Aim activated, you'll be alot more likely to "continue" landing attacks even after Aim expires, which can substantially affect how much damage you put out on your target.


As far as the "lethal" damage goes, it doesn't really matter in pvp anymore, as all resists hover within about 3-5% of eachother (in zone) now anyways. So whether it's psi damage or lethal damage, it's all almost the same as far as "resistances" go. Damage type can help determine "somewhat" a situation when it comes to +defense sets, but that's what Aim plus your array of defense debuffs are for

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From Detailed info taken on test, these are the pvp damage numbers at level 50, unenhanced:

Electricity Assault:
C.Bolts: 115
C.Brawl: 125
Bolt: 173
Havoc: 190
Zapp: 303
Static: 96
T.Strike: 336

Thorns:
Darts: 138
Skewer: 208
Fling: 198
Impale: 236
Burst: 196
Trops: 125
Ripper: 227
Barrage: 216

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Great info, and are these the official figures currently on test? If so, then it hasn't supported the case of Elec>>>Thorns still, and here's why:

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So while T.Strike does have a long activation time, it's an attack you'd use once someone was held anyways. Whereas your highest damaging attacks as /thorns (Impale, Ripper, Barrage) all have an act time of around 2 seconds, and you'd be using those as part of your attack chain. Elec's other attacks animate in about a second or less. That and /elecs snipe allows you to intentionally interrupt it to gain domination faster.

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Going off of the activation times for Thorns and plugging in the damage values you've pointed out above....that means that Thorns can actually achieve "higher" damage than Elec within the amount of time it takes Elec to pull off just "one" Thunder Strike.


[u]Thunder Strike[u] = 3.3 sec activation and = 336 dmg (base)


This means...that Thorns can use either of these attack combos and get roughly the "same" damage, and in less time in some cases (meaning that even a "3rd" attack could be firing off for more damage just as TS would be finishing).


[u]Darts[u] = 1.33 sec activation and = 138 dmg (base)
[u]Skewer[u] = 1.63 sec activation and = 208 dmg (base)

[u]TOTAL ACTIVATION TIME[u] = 2.96 seconds (.34 seconds faster than Elec)
[u]TOTAL DAMAGE[u] = 346 dmg (unenhanced)(that's 10 pts. more dmg than TS)

*As we can see, this chain provides even "more" damage than TS while also having a shorter activation time (which means a 3rd attack could be firing off for more dmg to this total). Half of this chain includes a ranged attack which has it's obvious uses as well, especially with the shorter durations of mez's these days in pvp.

[u]Thorny Darts[u] = 1.33 sec activation and = 138 dmg (base)
[u]Thorn Barrage[u] = 2 sec activation and = 216 dmg (base)

[u]TOTAL ACTIVATION TIME[u] = 3.3 sec (the exact same as TS, but ALL from safe range).
[u]TOTAL DAMAGE[u] = 424 dmg (unenhanced)(this is a whopping 88 pts more dmg than TS, and ALL from range!)

*This, imho, is a pretty large damage difference for roughly the "same" animation time if you ask me. What makes it even more appealing is that it can all be done at pure range, versus having to close into melee.

[u]Skewer[u] = 1.63 sec activation time and = 208 dmg (base)
[u]Ripper[u] = 2.17 sec activation time and = 227 dmg (base)

[u]TOTAL ACTIVATION TIME[u] = 3.8 sec (only 0.5 sec longer than TS)
[u]TOTAL DAMAGE[u] = 435 dmg (unenhanced)

*So while this chain is a tad bit longer to finish than TS, you can pull out almost 100 pts more damage with it. This chain is also pure melee, just like TS.


So anyways, there's a few examples of what Thorns has to offer, which from what I've gathered so far, actually makes it comparable to Elec in a pvp setting. Sure, once the damage value from Build Up is accounted some of those figures could change in favor of Elec, but Thorns still has Aim's dmg buff to help it as well, and it can't end up that far behind Elec in damage when viewing these stats. Granted Elec still has a pet, Sparky, but while he is very useful, he can't always be readily relied upon for damage.


Anwho, there's my thoughts on the Elec vs. Thorns debate so far. I'm not standing here saying that "Thorns >>> Elec 4 eva!!!" lol, I'm just adding some "scenarios" and such to the equation. I "also" want to know why the general concensus is that Thorns blows and Elec is so much better, because from where I stand right now, I just don't see it.


So, help the OP out, is he missing something?

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I think the devs sort of got the idea for Doms after watching pre-pet solo controller builds using every melee attack in the pool powers to solo a bit faster and effectively.

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Maybe a lil, but I think the idea really came from Ice/Energy Blappurs using PowerBoost+Freeze Ray to hold mobs and then safely go in and smash them to death quickly and more efficiently (single target wise) with their devastating melee attacks. I'm almost sure of this.

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lately its been pretty even sided though. Th other night i was on a full vil team vs a full heroes team from like 12-5 in the morning.

It was real fun.

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Yea, I've found Freedom to have a pretty darn decent balance between Heroes to Villains, and there's ALWAYS pvp going on on Freedom in RV. I've been on at like 3 in the morning and have found the zone just buzzing

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Glad I could help you, now have fun with it. I can't wait until I can resume playing my Night Widow. I have retired her until Going Rogue is released, but in the mean time I did just ding 50 with my Fortunata a couple hours ago.


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But wait....why would you build a Night Widow and then roll a Fortunata to 50 "also"...when we have access to Dual Builds? Concept maybe? I'm not being a jerk...just wondering.


That's one thing I always loved about my Widow, he could be two toons in one without sacraficing anything or rolling a new toon haha (melee and ranged)

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not as bad as /invuln would'a been for stalkers.

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Wrong.


Ten times worse.


Invln wouldn't be all that bad, at least they'd get somewhat of a self heal through DP plus a little +defense..

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Not meaning to repeat myself or anything, but if I can get similar results to Thunderstrike, from 80 feet away, for 7 less endurance, with some time to move in the middle of the cast time, and can do it over and over again, not to mention reduce their resists by 20% some of the time, why is Thunderstrike better? Having a knockdown and a mez seems redundant in PvP for a Mind Dominator, as my primary will take care of those on demand, from range, and then they will be immune for a bit. I'm just not feeling the idea of intentionally going into melee range as a squishy, seems counter-intuitive, and it seems to me that there's a better option available.

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Sounds like you've pretty much made up your mind then despite what people who have tried it are telling you.

Good luck with that.

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I think he's still open minded to suggestions, he's just wanting a better explanation as to "why" */Thorns isn't as good as the glorified */Elec, and to be honest, no one has given him very good answers. If I were him, I too would still be confused.


Again, it sounds like he basically needs better answers as to "why" people are saying this, and maybe even some minor "scenario" examples too (such as he gave). I think the problem is he doesn't like the "it rawks just because it does" answer.

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claws would be easy to bring over
Focus - half the range 40 to 20
and 75% KD
Spin - move to 26 up the damage
Eviscerate - move to 6 low damage
Shockwave - remove and replace with ST attach that does superior damage with 2.0 to 2.33 cast

Btw dual blades has 1 pbaoe and 2 cones just like claws

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Those are NOT very good suggestions.


There is absolutely NO reason why Focus's range should be halfed. None at all.


There is also no reason why Evis would nead a damage reduction either.

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In all seriousness, can we please get some claws for Brutes? You know it is the most common proliferation asked for. Just do it. Do it now.

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/signed.

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I still have a problem. I've done everything I can think of to fix it.

Every time the updater starts it wants to re-write some pigg files. When it gets to the geom.pigg file the updater crashes. Consistently.

It's not a file space issue or anything else I can think of. I've been able to access the test server just fine in the past, and I've accessed it since i15 came out. But that last bad patch seems to have done me in. I've reloaded the CohTest folder from my City of Heroes folder, made it past various hurdles (it still likes to erase all my pigg files the first go around), and then I finally get the updating to something manageable, like just under 300M, and it gets as far as geom.pigg and quits.

I hope the devs haven't stopped working on this updater issue, as I don't consider it resolved yet.

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ignore reactor..he keeps talking bs about stalkers w/o having any idea..

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Yea, he's not very bright at all.

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I know somewhere small NCSOFT can start:

Adjust Superior Invisibility so it actually gives the +1000ft bonus it says it should give to the controller. WTF. It should be better than hide if going by the power's description. I think illusion trollers deserve it.

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Uhm....what?

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Yeah but being hit by Force Bubble will drop Stealth + Stealth IO (not Hide) even if you aren't actually repelled so you'll be bait as soon as you get hit.

[/ QUOTE ]i usally wait till Force bubble is dropped.

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But, then you'll still have to deal with the location AoE's from Earth Control, which by themselves are enough of a pain in the rear. Also, they are still pretty darn hard to even land a hit on with the proper IO slotting and FF+RockArmor. AND, when you do land a hit, Earths Embrace is an awesome heal that will also increase their HP and make them JUST that much harder to hit. Oh, AND they can DF you and waste your build up after your first attack, which makes their +defense values work very well against you since your +tohit is lacking lol, all while toggling back up Force Bubble just 10 seconds after it drops anyways, which is no big deal for them.


Basically, when played correctly, at least in zones, one of these sucka's is hell on wheels for most Stalkers, especially for any Stalker that isn't WP or EA, and trust me, there's still a ton of Regen's and Nin's out there even these days. Being able to EASILY drop most Stalkers out of stealth cap (even randomly) alone is worth it's weight in gold when fighting Stalkers. Force Bubble can actually be pretty hard to aviod if you're a Stalker and not on your toes all the time.