Dark One

Well, possibly not forever.

At the very least, a mission should remain Hall of Fame until the next server reset to avoid immediate effects of the 1-star brigade.

As well as if people start a HoF mission, then it should count as a tick for the badge regardless of its status once it's finished.

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when you test a mission you get no xp or tickets.
but if you publish it and run it you get both.

So unless you already have 3 arcs published, there is no benefit to you to run a mission in test mode instead of publishing and then playing.

if you don't want xp - turn off xp. But why would you not want the tickets at least?

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But then you don't get any of the delicious, delicious badges that come with testing.

As for putting unfinished stuff up for the public to view, I find that no one ever plays my arcs anyway unless I ask them.

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advertising helps.

After I advertised my arcs a bit to friends and people in my global channel hangouts I started to get a slow stream of people I didnt even know trying my stuff, and the comments have helped tremendously

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I'm finding that a decent way to get people to try your arc is to try theirs. When you send the feedback about what's broken/bugged/wrong/etc, you are likely to engage them in conversation. Mention that if possible, you'd like them to run yours and see what's wrong with it.

Having people just randomly run my arc has resulted in 0 actual playthroughs. The few ratings/runs that I've gotten have come from doing exactly what I've described. Some have said they'd run it, but haven't (yet), so it really is hit or miss, but you have a better chance than just waiting for someone to run it.

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Publish one mission of the Arc, get people to run it since it's listed as "short", get the reviews/rates, then add in the later missions by editing.

By doing longer arcs, you have less of a shot of getting casuals to run/rate the thing, since they show up under "long/very long".

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That's essentially bait-and-switch though. You're not really offering what you claim to be. IMHO, authors who do this without warning deserve to be downrated.

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And how are you going to tell who is doing what? Are you going to keep a personal list of how many missions each arc has so that they can be downgraded when they add more stuff in?

It may also be that they want to get the first part of their arc out the door and get some feedback while they decide which direction to take the next couple of missions. There's really no point in making a 5-mission arc and going through all that work if what you are doing in the first mission is not all that good.

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4. Single-mission tests

I don't quite get why, but a lot of people seem to be publishing single missions out of longer arcs as individual arcs. I know there are sometimes reasons that you have to split up a story because it won't all fit, but this isn't that - this is literally just one mission. The end clue implies that there's another mission afterwards, but there isn't. No pointer to another arc. Nothing.

Is it because they want to generate tickets while they playtest? Is there some confusion on the part of the author on how the system is supposed to work? Maybe they plan to get critiques from SG mates or whatnot on individual missions during the playtesting process?

Whatever it is I find it frustrating, particularly since some of these stories are actually pretty good, and I'd want to play the whole thing if it were available. Authors, please, if you're doing this for whatever reason, I urge you to clearly label these missions.


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Publish one mission of the Arc, get people to run it since it's listed as "short", get the reviews/rates, then add in the later missions by editing.

By doing longer arcs, you have less of a shot of getting casuals to run/rate the thing, since they show up under "long/very long".

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Definition of "decent":

Nearly five years of playing a character and not even half way to Popular badge.

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Subjective. Ad misericordiam.


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So, five years of playing and not getting the badge? You see that as "decent".

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And yes, their stance is schizophrenic. You may disagree with it, but that's how I see it.

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Begging the question.


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Stating my opinion.

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Granted, since it's Arcanaville saying it, by definition everyone else is not just wrong, but wrong. I realize no one will agree with me, especially since you are saying I'm wrong.

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Poisoning the well.

The whole counterargument is based upon logical fallacies, including a slippery slope and hasty generalizations.

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Who, once Arcanaville sayeth they are wrong, has ever been agreed with?

Not to insult him/her, but it seems that once Arcanaville speaks, the argument is done. Nothing further can be said in defense of the opinion that is opposing his/her stance.

But hey, I never expected anyone to agree with me on anything. Ever. I can state my opinion, my reasons, and my interpretation of those reasons. Some people can see a 5+ year objective as "reasonable" and "decent". Others can't.

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I find their stance to be somewhat schizophrenic when it comes to "farming". On one hand, they implement stuff like aggro/aoe caps, timers on missions, etc. But then on the other hand, they implement stuff like Leader, Purples, Merits, and increase things like the Illusionist badge to levels that are simply ridiculous. "We don't want you to farm, but we are putting in stuff that if you want it in a decent amount of time, you have to farm."

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Its not schizophrenic. The correct statement is "we don't want you to farm, but we are putting in stuff that you might not get in a decent amount of time, by your definition of decent. If you try to farm, we'll take certain steps to stop you, but we might not be able to stop farming without side-effects that are more detrimental to the game than we, the developers, feel is tolerable."

This isn't really all that difficult to understand, even if one disagrees with it.

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Definition of "decent":

Nearly five years of playing a character and not even half way to Popular badge.

And yes, their stance is schizophrenic. You may disagree with it, but that's how I see it.

Granted, since it's Arcanaville saying it, by definition everyone else is not just wrong, but wrong. I realize no one will agree with me, especially since you are saying I'm wrong.

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Different folks find different things important. To you it isn't, to me it is. [ QUOTE ]


Right, except we just had an issue with all mostly new badges and pvp. Not as if the devs are ignoring that segment.

Also I don't think its far fetched to expect the devs to not implement the tool to open up farming when they try not to encourage it. Notice i said try.

/shrug.

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I find their stance to be somewhat schizophrenic when it comes to "farming". On one hand, they implement stuff like aggro/aoe caps, timers on missions, etc. But then on the other hand, they implement stuff like Leader, Purples, Merits, and increase things like the Illusionist badge to levels that are simply ridiculous. "We don't want you to farm, but we are putting in stuff that if you want it in a decent amount of time, you have to farm."

"Just had an issue"? If you mean Day Jobs, which no matter what one does, they are at 21 days apiece, and can only be speeded up by finding Double Spots, as an Issue. Day Jobs are in the same boat as Vet badges. Not really here nor there. Sure, they were added, but most won't be done with them till December at the earliest.

I never said they were "ignoring the segment", but by saying YOU don't find it to be important, doesn't mean others don't. I think that they have wasted MASSIVE amounts of time, energy, and effort pandering to the PvP crowd with all the interminable tweaks, fixes, nerfs, revamps, etc. But that's just my opinion and I can understand other people finding it to be important.

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Good luck getting them to "fix those mistakes". Much less acknowledge them as such.

It only took three+ years of logic, whining, and arguments to get them to admit Empath was "broken".

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Keep in mind that was probably because risk vs reward had a different meaning when he who must not be named was in charge *cough* Jack *cough*

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QFT

Bet let's drop the tangent or move it to another thread plz.

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/agreed.

Point is I don't see not being able to use MA to make farm maps for badges an issue or even important. AT ALL.

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And I don't see the importance of people harping on PvP, or how merits/skeball tickets/whatever will "affect the market", or other things.

Different folks find different things important. To you it isn't, to me it is.

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Right, meaning badges really are meaningless.

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They only have the meaning that YOU are attaching to them. Nothing more. They are there to show what you have beaten or where you have been.

YOU are attaching more meaning to them then they actually have.

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Apparently my sarcasm was missed. I should have added a smiley.

EDIT: And if you really believe that then it shouldn't matter whether you can use the MA to create farm missions for them.

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Fixing prior mistakes re: defeat badges, the "gotta catch them all" mindset for 1 villain and 1 hero, unlocking weapons for either side, and getting titles that wouldn't otherwise be attainable, those are the reasons why I'd like them to count.

I make no claim that a defeat badge is somehow "special". Beyond unlockables and titles, they only matter for two of my characters. If it's any char other than them, I just don't care whether I get them or not.

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I'd RATHER they FIX those prior mistakes, not use MA as a palliative for them (for instance the absurdity of putting pvp bages in some villain accolades, when heroes don't have to).

Ofcourse you assume the devs see those things as mistakes.

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Good luck getting them to "fix those mistakes". Much less acknowledge them as such.

It only took three+ years of logic, whining, and arguments to get them to admit Empath was "broken".

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Right, meaning badges really are meaningless.

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They only have the meaning that YOU are attaching to them. Nothing more. They are there to show what you have beaten or where you have been.

YOU are attaching more meaning to them then they actually have.

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Apparently my sarcasm was missed. I should have added a smiley.

EDIT: And if you really believe that then it shouldn't matter whether you can use the MA to create farm missions for them.

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Fixing prior mistakes re: defeat badges, the "gotta catch them all" mindset for 1 villain and 1 hero, unlocking weapons for either side, and getting titles that wouldn't otherwise be attainable, those are the reasons why I'd like them to count.

I make no claim that a defeat badge is somehow "special". Beyond unlockables and titles, they only matter for two of my characters. If it's any char other than them, I just don't care whether I get them or not.

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Right, meaning badges really are meaningless.

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They only have the meaning that YOU are attaching to them. Nothing more. They are there to show what you have beaten or where you have been.

YOU are attaching more meaning to them then they actually have.

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Will the MA affect Defeat badges? If I make a mission with the Cabal, can a villian earn the defeat cabal badge?

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No, No.

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Sorry pohsyb, but you just killed any interest I had in the MA.

It was the perfect opportunity to fix several mistakes and oversights re: Defeat Badges, but now? Meh. No real interest in it. That's not to say I don't recognize and appreciate the fact that a LOT of work has went into it, but two steps forward, one back IMO.

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If we are able to make maps just to get badges easily, what is the point of badges in the first place?

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Not getting into it again, but you still have to defeat <x> number for them. There's no difference between beating 1000 monkies on Monkey Island or defeating 1000 monkies in a MA map, you've still beaten 1000 monkies. The point of them is to show that you have beaten <x> number, the badge makes no distinction on how, when, why, or where you defeated them.

Separate question unrelated to badges...

Are powersets, such as Aurora Borealis' going to be available for usage on custom critters? For those unaware, it's similar to Energy Blast, but using a white-colored blast, rather than blue.

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because I for one, do not find resetting a single mission 100 times to get Weatherman anywhere NEAR enjoyable.

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O.o On my heroic main I got that badge by hunting in the hollows. It was fun, and I did so on the way to missions. Or more precisely on the way to attempt to get to one mission because I didn't realize a simple fact... that enemies would respawn quickly during the turf war. For my other characters with the badge, they got it easily enough too without resetting the same mission over and over. It's called hunting in the zones.

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Except for the fact that Outcasts only appear in one mission in all of Villains...



And only then do you get 3 bosses if you have a full team of 8 on the second or fourth difficulty. If solo, you only get 1, hence the "resetting a single mission 100 times".

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It was the perfect opportunity to fix several mistakes and oversights re: Defeat Badges, but now? Meh. No real interest in it. That's not to say I don't recognize and appreciate the fact that a LOT of work has went into it, but two steps forward, one back IMO.

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That seems a touch monofocus to me. I understand your feeling that way, but... well, if your real interest was in creating missions full of the mobs you needed to defeat to claim badges, it seems unlikely you really were interested in creating missions. It wouldn't take a lot of creativity to figure out which outdoor map had the fewest obstacles and the most space for mobs and load it down with redcaps.

I realize -- different strokes and all that. Still, it seems like a weird thing to hinge all your enjoyment of a feature on.

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Yes, it is somewhat of a monofocus, I realize that. But like I also said, it would also fix things like the metagaming needed for Coldblooded on Heroes, or the extremely limited time frame for Bane of Danaan for Villains, or to fix oversights like the Outcasts, etc. It's more than a matter of just "Get The Badges", but rather an opportunity to improve the process for defeats, because I for one, do not find resetting a single mission 100 times to get Weatherman anywhere NEAR enjoyable.

I would like to be able to title my /FA Brute "Volcanic" (from the Pumicite defeat badge). I've got a couple Heroes that "The Mongoose" would be neat on. But now, that's never going to happen.

I have no ability to create anything that others would consider "enjoyable". I have no talent at writing stories. And since I know flat out and beyond a shadow of a doubt, nothing I would make would ever enter the Hall of Fame or Dev Choice, why spend what free time I have to play, on making subpar missions?

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Will the MA affect Defeat badges? If I make a mission with the Cabal, can a villian earn the defeat cabal badge?

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No, No.

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Sorry pohsyb, but you just killed any interest I had in the MA.

It was the perfect opportunity to fix several mistakes and oversights re: Defeat Badges, but now? Meh. No real interest in it. That's not to say I don't recognize and appreciate the fact that a LOT of work has went into it, but two steps forward, one back IMO.

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Love the video....

ticketing system? replacing merits or a THIRD currency system?

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Well, fifth. Sixth if you separate Influence from Infamy. Eighth if you include Salvage and Recipes.

And what's even funnier about this new currency, is the devs used the excuse of "Player Confusion" for getting rid of Base Salvage.

Base Salvage is/was confusing, but having anywhere from five to eight separate currencies isn't?

Haven't read it, but you might want to adjust your choice of colors. The dark blue is somewhat hard to read on the blue, hero background. And the purple may be difficult to read on the villain red (somewhat hard to read on the hero blue too).

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Hmmm so lets see (for example) setting a mission up that only has rikti monkeys in it to get the Zookeeper badge isnt an exploit? Besides are there not maps that can essentially be "farmed" already? The argument here is defeat badges, you have stated that you have run the game content "ad nauseum" does that also mean that you have gotten the vast majority of the defeat badges too?

Who's to say how the devs will have the MA setup? At this point it is all speculation and assumptions.

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Yes, I've gotten the majority of the Defeat badges on my hero (602 total at this point). However, I'd like to get things like Goldbrickers, or Snakes, or the like on her. And would like things like Pumicites on my villain (the title would go quite well her concept as a /FA Brute).

Also, you are working from a flawed premise. Iirc, they stated that players would be unable to specify exactly what spawns show up. You wouldn't be able to go beyond "Spawn <x> faction at <y> point". Meaning normal spawning rules apply and things like placing all monkies or all fake nems would not be possible.

That really is my last comment.

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Would you have the same opinion if they also remove Salvage/Merits/Enhancements/Recipes from MA missions? Because if you think "actual story or entertainment would be far more rewarding", then there should be no problem right? You just want the story, right? Anything else isn't necessary.

Better remove those rewards too, since, OMG people might *stage whisper* farm!

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You are not comparing apples to apples here. Badges are not Drops. Salvage/Enhancements/Recipes are all critical parts of other in game features, such as Bases, the Black Market/Wentworth's, Slotting and building your toon, to list a few.

To make the MA in such a way that absolutely no rewards come from it is to launch a doomed to fail game feature. No one will waste their time if there are no rewards for doing it.


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So...it's alright for people get other rewards, such as Drops, which can affect how your character reacts and interacts with others, but it's not ok for something that does not affect other people to be included? Do you not see anything wrong with that?

And you better believe, there are going to be farm maps galore. <x> Faction of the Month in an open, outdoorsy type map with few obstructions.

Badges, whether you like it or not, are a critical game part for some. Do you know what's kept me playing? Badges and the forum. That's it. After close to five years, I've run the "official" content ad nauseum. Collecting those shinies are the only thing I have an interest in at this point.

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You have stated that you could care less about the MA except in how it can help you get Badges. Well, apparently you believe that it is not going to help you.


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That's right. There's nothing there for me.

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I agree with these others that the focus of the MA is Custom Playerbase Content. I look forward to all the Story Arcs peeps will write. I have several decent (I hope) story Arcs in mind myself. These are the Story Arcs I will play. If I load an Arc and it is obviously designed for the Farming of anything, I will opt out. If that function is available.

Do I Farm? Yes. But not Badges.


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So, you are ok with farming, just not for badges?

Bwah?

And do you not see the solution there? No one would be forcing you to "farm" a badge mission, but for those that want to, it's there.

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I try not to form quick opinions of other posters, and have only had one exchange with you. However, it appears that after several different people have offered valid arguments against your "Point of View" on the Badge deal, that you refuse to even consider any suggestion/argument/explanation but your own.


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That's just it though, they HAVEN'T offered refutation for pretty much any of my claims. All they've put, basically amounts to a fear of farming.

Let's see if I can list the "objections" to it:

1) Fear of farming
2) Clog the system with badge missions
3) Afraid people will get all the defeat badges in a couple hours thus invalidating people doing it the "hard" way

That's pretty much it. If I've missed any, I apologize.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the fence, there is:

1) Removal of the necessity for metagaming certain things
2) Opening up more titles to characters
3) Legitimizing certain badges
4) Potential for more unlockable weapons for characters on either side of the fence
5) Mitigating the effects of previous bad design decisions for some badges

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If you don't want to use the MA because it don't cater to your particular desires, then don't use it.

But please quit railing against folks on here that see Badges for what they are, and choose to concentrate on the Intended purpose of the MA.

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See badges for what they are? Sorry, but that's their interpretation. They are also assigning values to them that are not inherent to them.

The MA offers me essentially nothing. I have no ability to tell stories, I have no illusions that anything I make would be a Hall of Fame or Dev's Choice, so why should I waste my time? With this ONE thing, they are eliminating a section of people that would care to use something that has taken an excessive amount of time to build.

Why would they purposely say to a section of people, "You're not welcome here"?

Edit - But hey, I've said my piece. I'm done. I know it isn't going to change, and I know that because I'm for it, people will come out of the woodwork to shoot down the idea. Heaven forfend anyone actually agreeing with me.

Peace out.

Feel free to continue insulting me, people.

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If you think it's so easy to farm elsewhere, do so. We don't want the MA getting cluttered up with various "Go. Hunt. Kill Skulz for badge" maps. Some actual story or entertainment would be far more rewarding, imo.


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Would you have the same opinion if they also remove Salvage/Merits/Enhancements/Recipes from MA missions? Because if you think "actual story or entertainment would be far more rewarding", then there should be no problem right? You just want the story, right? Anything else isn't necessary.

Better remove those rewards too, since, OMG people might *stage whisper* farm!

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Badges aren't supposed to be something you just wait in a spawn and farm the same mob for, over and over and over again. It's something of an accomplishment, of, over the span of so many levels, fighting this group so many times, you've killed X amount! Grats!

As opposed to "Go farm moar newb".


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Really. I never would've guessed. Wow, you've opened my eyes. I guess people don't farm a Master Illusionist for the badge for that. Or continually run circuits around the SE corner of Talos for BP masks. Or go to Monkey Island. Or sit in front of a mob for the damage badges.

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As I have been told by a player that has played since beta, the Devs frown upon "farming" and that is why the MA more than likely will not count towards defeat badges. As was stated it would make most (well all) defeat badges trivial, the big fat hariy deal has nothing to do with it. It makes sense, because Devs (IMO) know their base and they know that a great many of us will exploit (or "break" the game if you will which goes against the EULA) the MA to get the defeat badges.

Does that answer your question, as to why MA more than likely will never be opened up to allow for defeat badges to be earned? Besides what would the point of doing the actual game content if all you did was MA missions??? That would literally be the end of the game.


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Frown upon farming? And yet, that's exactly what they encourage by putting in things like merits, purples that only drop from minions at level 50, Popular/Leader, etc.

Oh give me a break. "That would literally be the end of the game"? Overreact much? You're missing a "DooOOOOooOOmMM!!" in there.

What would be "exploitive" about it? Answer: nothing. That word gets thrown around WAY too much. There is no difference in farming a MA map and farming Gaussian's arc for Longbow for instance. And again, making the artificial distinction that somehow MA maps are better or worse than contact/paper/radio missions for doing the exact same thing is facetious.

As Rigel_Kent said, it's yet another ifandbut exception and a reason NOT to use something they are putting in an excessive amount of time to introduce.

There's no point in waiting for Live Beta. I sincerely doubt it will change, or that they even care, but I would be remiss to myself if I didn't at least try.

Defeat badges were about my only real use for the MA. I have no ability to craft convincing stories, so I'll just make whatever needs to be made for whatever badges are attached to it and move on to the next thing to do.

Like I said, they are wasting a perfect opportunity to mitigate some of their past mistakes re: badges, for no apparent gain.

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If they don't spawn in "normal" Heroes CoT content (in the case of Coldblooded), why do you think they will spawn in MA Story Arcs designed by a Hero?


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Why wouldn't they? Flag them as being Villain-enabled spawns, allowing for the potential for them to be there.

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Apparently, the Devs had some reason for making this a hard Badge for a Hero to get.


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It's not a "hard" badge to get. It is an otherwise, simply unobtainable, badge to get outside of metagaming within a very specific time frame in order to obtain.

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It also means your argument is useless, since you couldn't get them to spawn even if you did get credit for killing them.


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And what about all the other badges that are one side or the other? I recall them saying that a Hero could make a mission with Legacy Chain or a Villain with Pumicites (for example). That the sides wouldn't be limited to the spawns on either side.

Could be wrong on that though. Memory is hazy.

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I'm sorry to hear that. I play Villains, not Heroes, so I do not have that problem.


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Actually, you have a similar problem.

Outcasts, as I've repeatedly said, only exist in ONE mission. And then, you can only get 3 Boss-types if you have a full team on the second or fourth difficulty. A person needs to reset that one mission a minimum of 34 times. Possibly as many as 100 if you are doing it solo.

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Because, while the Mob CONTENT is not player defined, the Enemy Group in each mission of the Story Arc is. You can go to Paragonwiki, look up Hordlings, see what lvl ranges they are set up at, and design a five mission Story Arc with nothing but CoT as the enemy.

This is true for every other ememy group in the game.

Instead of having one Mish that you are farming to get the kills on the random Spawn, you have greatly increased the chances of spawns by having 5 missions to farm.

You describe farming one mission, you are talking about the ability to farm an entire 5 mission story arc.

There is a big difference there.


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There is NO difference.

One can currently look up which arcs spawn what, and do exactly what you say would be a "problem" by running those arcs. Not to mention, one can farm arcs or missions simply by resetting them. No travel involved.

The mobs are no different. Hence, there should be no difference in earning credit. Since one cannot, to the best of my knowledge, state that each mob placed will be a Lead Shocker or a Rikti Monkey, a person STILL has to do the exact same things that they would do in a mission in the wild so to speak.

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As I sadi above, because you now will have the ability to do a little research, and set up a 5 mission story arc to greatly improve your chances of fighting said particular enemy.

The difference is farming 1 mission and dealing with the random spawn, Vs. farming 5 missions dealing with the random spawn.

If you can't see how that greatly improves your chances to steamroll some of these Badges, then I don't know what else to tell ya.


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Sorry, but you haven't answered anything. Doing anything with the MA for defeat badges is NO different than what goes on currently. Defeat 100 Mages in a MA mission or defeat 100 Mages in a newspaper mission or defeat 100 Mages on the street makes no difference. You have still defeated 100 Mages, which is all the badge cares about or signifies.

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When I first started playing this game, I played Heroes, and there were CoT everywhere. None of the CoT content on the Heroes side spawns Hordlings/Hellfrosts? I wasn't there long enough to know, so I am asking.


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Nope. Hellfrosts, Hordelings, Succubi, and other things like Legacy Chain, Luddites, Wyvern, Goldbrickers, Snakes, etc don't show up heroside, which is why one needs to do that Defeat Terrigol mission with some finagling to get the Hordelings/Hellfrosts/Succubi (the others are simply unavailable) to spawn.