Dark One

I actually did pretty well. Getting Freeze Ray at lvl8 makes things a LOT more bearable.

Also, I didn't really have that few attacks. By lvl12 I have five attacks, including my pre-travel power (also very good at soft control) and a so-so soft control power, a start for the run to Stamina, and one really good control power. At level 18, I get one of the best single-target damage powers in the game.

I didn't really stand around waiting for recharge. The idea that Hasten is 'necessary' is just not true.

And really, at some point, a person has to decide what is more important to them, playing 'strong' in the early game, or getting the setup made to play 'strong' in the middle-to-late game. I chose the latter.

Edit - Granted, in the 'early' game I couldn't play on Invincible, but I can in the late game.

Edit ^2 - Also, remember that it IS the early game. You aren't automagically a super-duper hero capable of constantly attacking and dishing out teh hurts.

Edit ^3 - Yet something else to consider. By the time one reaches lvl12, they will have gained 10 slots. That's enough to fully slot two powers. In my case, I would choose to slot Ice Blast fully, one slot in Frost Breath, and four slots in Freeze Ray. Rather than having to sacrifice an attack or other 'necessary' power for Hasten plus two slots to get it ready (even though it's no longer perma-able, not really sure on if it's possible through IO slotting to perma it), I chose to invest that power for something else and those two slots for my 'real' powers.

Add in that the powers I did take, don't really need to be slotted (at least immediately), I can dedicate those slots to my main powers.

Keep in mind, this was the first run through I made of my character. Yes, Bonesmasher would be better there. Back in those days, I wasn't too into blapping, but now I am.

Also, you might want to check out the Issue 8 updated version. Alot of things in my build have changed, such as dumping GI and Phase Shift and switching over to the Electric Mastery APP.

No problem. Glad you enjoyed it.

Actually, the only change I made to it once Inventions came out was to substitute lvl50 regular IOs for the SOs. I decided not to invest in going for Sets once I heard about the bonuses disappearing if you exemp more than three levels below the level of the IO. Check that, I did put in four pieces of Tempered Readiness (iirc) in Ice Storm of the lowest possible levels for an Increase to Slow.

I might figure out an IO set for Blizzard if I can.

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See my above post.

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How recent did he say that? I find unfairness to be laughable because some (See 50's) never had the chance. I could understand if everyone could have the chance but some characters do not.

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Remember, same person who put in RV Isolator.

Time consuming & playing a waiting game != hard

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History indicates otherwise. Since they've begun using a closed re-beta, the test time for each issue has been MUCH shorter, and the issues have had FAR fewer bugs remaining once they do actually go live.

Be glad I'm not the one callig the shots: you'd be seeing your name pinned to the bottom of the list, for putting "the players and the community" above "the product being tested".

Then again, I'm just a to-the-point [censored] like that, I guess.



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Why do keep on insisting on this?

You have no concrete evidence that it is the testers themselves, rather than the process that is resulting in the smoother releases.

One thing does not prove the other.

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Pax_Arcana is right. Since they have started closed beta testing there have been far far fewer bugs in the game. As a college student of game software development you can not convince me that it is a coincidence.

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Absolute last response on this matter. Feel free to flame me and call me a 'whiner' as you wish afterwards. Funny isn't it though? Aside from my 'head in the sand' comment, I have not resulted to insults and namecalling, yet that is pretty much all that the opponents of my belief can reply with....


No, Pax_Arcana is not right.

Since the closed testing began, what has changed? It's not the testers, because they were here (for the most part) before the closed testing began. Chances are, they hopped on and beta'd the existing issues when they hit Test. The testers did not suddenly gain Ultimate Insight into the code of the game.

What did change? The process of beta testing.

You see, I have more faith in the Devs (this is a first for me saying this) to develop a process that does not require specific people, especially in light that this is a pay-to-play environment where anyone could leave at any time, as a lynchpin of their construct. I have faith that they developed a process that means basically anyone (within logical limits) could be substituted for anyone else and achieve the same results.

I'm willing to have my belief tested, if only for one Issue, and no hard feelings if I'm wrong. I even said I would recant if I was wrong. What's the worst that happens? A couple weeks extra on Test?

But these pro-same group people are not willing to have the theory tested because there is a chance they are wrong. And the whole House of Cards that surrounds the closed beta testers comes tumbling to the ground.


There is also the whole crediting all the results of closed beta to them, when it's the actual coders and development team that actually fixes things and do the real work.

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no, really i could not care less really, id like to get ina closed beta myself, but i also realize that thus far the tack they have used has produced good results, so i cant argue with it on any rational level. I do, however, trust cryptic to be smart enough to datamine the feedback and know that some of the testers are really good at finding bugs, and should be invited back each and every time. Its not a flimsy assumption, its the only evidence we have to go on, If this is the same criteria they have used before(keep in mind that before the devs were adamant about not telling us the criteria..wonder why?), then it has resulted in 3 good launches, thats not a flimsy assumption, its an irrefutable fact, what is conjuncture is how many of the repeat beta testers are killer bug coders, and how many are nice fluff, thats a question neither you or I know the answer to, we are both speculating.


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*rubs forehead*

Once again, you.

Just.

Don't.

Get.

It.

The fact that the launches have been smooth is not indicitive of the overall skills of the group of players. You guys are trying to connect things that may in fact, not be connected at all.

If I said that this rock I am holding keeps tigers away, and that there are no tigers around is proof that the rock works. Nevermind the fact that I live in the Midwest of the United States. One thing does not prove the other. This is the same.

Edit - And you realize don't you, that by keeping the same people in there, the chances of you actually getting in are even slimmer right?

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my speculation, however is based on easily observable things, and yours thus far has been mostly based on appeals to ideas of "chosen ones" and, recently, a group of guffawing old beta testers talking about beta and making unchosen ones feel left out. I mean really man, your stuff gets more outlandish with each accusation. next you will be claiming that the beta testers lounge about on golden sofas eating grapes peeled by buxom developers (i understand posi is pretty darn buxom) and mocking the poor unwashed masses while they play a fully bug tested issue 12 on a special server that runs extra fast by leeching fps from grandville, reality check yourself ,man.


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Hyperbole and strawmen. You cannot construct a real argument so you resort to exaggerating the things I have said to the point of ludicrousness.

It is not getting more 'outlandish' as I have maintained the same stance from the start, nor have I asked for anything untoward.

Edit ^2 - I have not asked for anything extreme. Just two things: 1) A complete swappage of testers for 1 (one, single, uno, ichi, I would prefer for every Issue, but this can at least prove or disprove the theory) Issue to see if it's the process or the testers that makes the difference; and 2) access (threads are locked but the non-chosen can at least see the evolution of the features) to the Closed Beta forums once Closed Beta is over. Neither of which is onerous to the extreme.
/end edit

If you haven't seen the posts that have followed the closed betas whenever someone suggests something, it is invariably answered with a 'We thought of that in closed beta, but said no' by the players who were in the closed beta.

Edit - Regardless, I'm done. By all means, continue to believe that these people are the sole things standing between us and the servers crashing to the ground. And yes, I realize that's hyperbolic, but hey, if you guys can try it on my arguments... *shrug*

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History indicates otherwise. Since they've begun using a closed re-beta, the test time for each issue has been MUCH shorter, and the issues have had FAR fewer bugs remaining once they do actually go live.

Be glad I'm not the one callig the shots: you'd be seeing your name pinned to the bottom of the list, for putting "the players and the community" above "the product being tested".

Then again, I'm just a to-the-point [censored] like that, I guess.



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Why do keep on insisting on this?

You have no concrete evidence that it is the testers themselves, rather than the process that is resulting in the smoother releases.

One thing does not prove the other.

[/ QUOTE ]you have no concrete evidence it dosent, and he does have inductive evidence that the 3 issues that have been bug tested with closed beta have come off test faster and with fewer bugs than the issues prior. that is not absolute proof, we cant have any proof withought access to the datamining tools the devs have, but from all appearences, issues with closed betas have come out faster and with less bugs. its reasonable to infer from that that closed betas are having a positive effect, and that at least some of the repeat beta testers are finding those show stopping bugs that popped up at, say the launch of issue 7 when we were randomly dropped every time we exited any doors. we work witht he best evidence we have, please post your evidence that the closed beta testers are not doing their job.

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When did I ever say I was against the idea of a closed beta? Answer, I haven't. I'm not disputing it's helpful.

What I am disputing is the idea that these same people are so utterly necessary to the process. I have no concrete evidence, and I have even stated that should any be presented, I would eat my words.

The people (and you are one of them) that are insisting the same group remain ad nauseum have nothing but the extremely flimsy assumption that since the releases have been smoother, it is due entirely to the testers, rather than the devs developing a more efficient process as well as bug handling procedures.

Given the stance of the pro-same group people, would you also say that since they are so necessary to the game's continued development, that the game itself would collapse without them blessing us with their presence? No? Then they aren't necessary to continue to be in the closed door process. If you said yes, then heaven help us should they decide to leave...

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History indicates otherwise. Since they've begun using a closed re-beta, the test time for each issue has been MUCH shorter, and the issues have had FAR fewer bugs remaining once they do actually go live.

Be glad I'm not the one callig the shots: you'd be seeing your name pinned to the bottom of the list, for putting "the players and the community" above "the product being tested".

Then again, I'm just a to-the-point [censored] like that, I guess.



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Why do keep on insisting on this?

You have no concrete evidence that it is the testers themselves, rather than the process that is resulting in the smoother releases.

One thing does not prove the other.

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No. Closed beta has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with community, except that community is where they can get willing and hopefully educated and/or capable testers for free.

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Yes, it does.

There is only one other thing that has been as divisive to the community as to the issue of the closed beta participants, imo.

And that is PvP.

After every closed beta so far, there has been a completely insufferable smugness from the participants. They constantly drop the 'back in closed beta...' line in pretty much anything dealing with the Issue, as if they are the end-all, be-all of the concern/question. It comes down to 'us', the non-chosen, and 'them' the chosen.

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All that leaves for us to discuss, I must sadly agree, is the selection process. And I agree if could maybe be improved. But no act of tossing out the current, established pool of testers is an "improvement" IMO, so any idea that starts from there, I would have to oppose.


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Why?

What is so bloody special about these people that they need to be included in this and any future testing?

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Proven track record. I9-->I10-->i11 has been a faster process than ever before, and partof that is due to the greater intensity and focus of testing in the Closed Beta stage.

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You cannot say, with any degree of accuracy that the testers themselves have proven anything other than they can follow instructions.

The quickness could be attributed to: 1) better coders on the Devs part gaining a better knowledge of the system; 2) the Devs being able to focus on one specific system at a time in the Closed system; 3) the feedback not getting lost in the noise of umpteen thousand people clamoring to be heard; 4) rather than taking large chunks of systems the updates have been smaller and more manageable; and other reasons I'm not thinking of this early in the morning.

But saying that these few people out of over 140k active subscribers and over 108k registered board members, are the only ones that can do so is a logical leap not supported by the evidence at hand. Saying that they 'deserve' to be there or are the best possible testers is not evident.

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All that leaves for us to discuss, I must sadly agree, is the selection process. And I agree if could maybe be improved. But no act of tossing out the current, established pool of testers is an "improvement" IMO, so any idea that starts from there, I would have to oppose.


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Why?

What is so bloody special about these people that they need to be included in this and any future testing?

We have no knowledge of what the requirements of being selected entails. For all we know, it is 'Be born under a blue moon, be able to turn your eyelids inside out and know how to do the Chicken Dance'.

Unless and until there is 100% transparency of the selection process, this will continue. No 'mystery' criteria whatsoever.

And don't say 'The releases have been smooth'. All that is proof of is that the releases have been smooth, nothing more. It is in no way, an indication of the skills/talent/dumb luck of the Chosen Ones.

That, and the Closed Beta forums really need to be opened up once the Closed Beta is over. That way, everyone can partake of the same information these select few are privy to.

Edit - And if the ranks aren't purged, then eventually the number of closed beta testers (assuming any future ones are ever added) will get so big as to there being no point to the closed beta.

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while i sympathise with the people who care so much about a single badge, but you did notice that the people who get on are from those who are on test a lot, what stops you from being on test and looking for bugs there, getting your reputation up, and getting in closed beta after that, nothing.


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There is no proof that they are 'on Test a lot'. Just that they logged in recently. That 'recently' could be for nothing more than seeing if a respec works or not. Or seeing how a power plays. There is nothing saying they are 'looking for bugs there'.

I shouldn't have to 'get my reputation up'. If finding an esoteric bug that can cause one AT to crash and not another isn't something that can 'get my reputation up' then I don't know what is. The fact that my payment amount is the same as anyone elses should be enough.

It's not that I care about the badge, it's about providing a measurable advantage to a small group of people.

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ah the beauty of a set trap properly sprung. notice that i never indicated that you were one of those people, would'nt be as discorteous as to use direct insults, I see from your head in the sand comment you lack that courtesy. There are those who will always complain and see secret factions against them, regardless of contrary evidence, remember the forum cartel? same thing. you can see phantoms all you want, but prove it with evidence or expect not to be taken seriously.


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You had no trap. You had no ulterior motive.

You were still attacking people and gave no indication that you excluded me from said group of people.

And if an attack is good enough for you, it's good enough for me. I don't deny that I made one, but I'm man enough to apologize for it and to acknowledge it.

And you have provided no evidence to the contrary of my statements, other than attacks with no basis.

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sigh, remember how much boresights cost in beta, remember how much they didnt cost live? the market on test is very different than the one on live.


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No, actually I don't know how much they cost, as I didn't go on Test as there was no point to it for me.

The market is different because of the ease of duping Influence, something that can't happen on Live.

The Closed testers can more accurately see the drop rates and plan how to maximize their gains. They have more time to do so.

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oh please, grow some thicker skin, everyone that disagrees with you is all of a sudden making a personal attack on you, its about as genuine as the umbrige we see politicians claim every time they dont have a legitimate refutation of a claim against them. we have no proof that they arent good testers either, only the hurt feelings of those who, like myself, didnt make the cut. prove that there are primarily bad testers in the mix and we can talk, otherwise, we have had 3 good solid issues rolled out after several that came out with major crashes, and bugs, barring some internal metrics from cryptic which neither you nor i have access to, we are guessing, but on my evidence we have had 3 good issue launches, your counter example?


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Check your statements. You're the one making attacks (other than my sand comment) by calling people paranoid and unstable. And now you've branched out into strawmen arguments.

Prove that the rollouts are because of the people rather than the process itself. You can't can you? Because we haven't been given a chance to prove it. Have them invite a completely different crew of closed testers and see how it goes. If it's a cruddy release, then I'd eat my words on it. But if it's a release just as smooth, then we'll know it doesn't depend on the people involved. Only showing one side of the argument doesn't prove anything.

I'm not disputing the need for a closed beta, I'm disputing the rationale behind the selection of people for it.

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yep, i agree, once beta is opened we get a lot of non-constructive posters making noise, good thing they do closed betas with proven testers, isn't it?


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They haven't proven ANYTHING beyond that they can do what the Devs tell them. You can't say that they are good testers without comparison to others.

I know, it's like howling into the wind. It accomplishes nothing.

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1. plenty of bugs still are around for you to get the badge with,


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More people, less showstopping possibilities, code is nearing finalized state.

Given that the metrics for this badge is pretty much dev whim, the chances of getting it in Open Beta are extremely small comparatively.

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2. there are those so paranoid that there will always be a shadow cabal out to get them, they are unstable, and they wont be missed.


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Another ad hominem attack.

If you can't see that the same people getting in time and again gives the appearance of preferential treatment, especially when the requirements for getting in are 'secret', then well, I hope that sand your head is in is comfy.

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3. we will most likely have a significant open bata portion to give people an idea what items are needed for the sets, plus, as pax said earlier, there is no guarentee that the recipies will stay the same from test to live.


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And there is no guarantee that they will change. The closed testers can find out the info first and beat the rest to the punch. Not to mention, for those who play natively on Test, but aren't in the beta, it is an unfair advantage.

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4. again, that smacks of paranoia, the people chosen are chosen in part because they really are better testers, their input really is more valuable, i know its difficult for some to conceptualize, but some people are better at things than other people, and as such on a purely technical level, their input really is more important.


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Another ad hominem attack.

There is no proof that they are 'better testers'. Especially when what constitutes a 'better tester', i.e. the requirements to get in, remains 'secret'.

If these people are so important, technically savvy, and required for the beta, then Cryptic should hire them.

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guys, try to remember that there will be an open beta too, its not as though only the closed beta testers are going to be testing this, you will get your shot. people make the mistake of thinking that this is soemhow a division of the time we used to have to beta test a issue, its not, if they were doing it the old way, the full beta test would not be happening now, the closed beta is a small and directed group of players who are doing work that would normally have been done by a smaller inhouse team of testers. the beta is still a beta, it just starts out less buggy than before, and goes live sooner because they have gotten useful feedback sooner


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And comparatively, all Open Beta is good for is Stress Testing, i.e. something in the code didn't break the underlying server structure that can't be seen with a small group of people. As once it gets to that stage, the chances of seeing fundamental changes to systems is slim to nil.

Constructive criticism offered once it goes Open, tends to get lost in the noise of everyone and their dog trying it out and complaining about X item.

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Waaaaaah! I hope the people whinng in this thread are 14 or younger, because if they are adults it is sad indeed.

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Wow, another ad hominem attack.

Guess you beta testers sure earned your spots huh?

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I'm not a beta test but does it really matter who is on the closed beta testing as long as it works and we get to play with it a little on the test server before it goes to the live server?

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It does matter for a few reasons:

1) Closed door testers have a much much bigger chance of being awarded Bug Hunter. A good portion of the total numbers of this badge being handed out have come from the closed tests. Why? Because they get to see the gameplay in unpolished-ness, which is more likely to have major bugs.

2) Gives the appearance of preferential treatment if the same people keep getting in.

3) Closed testers get a leg-up on market/economy potentialities, giving them an unfair advantage when the Issue goes Live.

4) Same group of closed testers time after time get a much larger chance of affecting the game as a whole than the rest of players, whose opinions are just as valid as the "Chosen Ones".

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Waaaaaah! I hope the people whinng in this thread are 14 or younger, because if they are adults it is sad indeed.

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Wow, another ad hominem attack.

Guess you beta testers sure earned your spots huh?

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Because he's a beta tester. And I'm a beta tester.

No, actually, I just realize that [censored] about it not only will not change anything except making people think less of you and being bad for your health, but also make you a worse candidate for the process.

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If you actually think I care what people on a message board think of me...well, you'd be wrong.

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Waaaaaah! I hope the people whinng in this thread are 14 or younger, because if they are adults it is sad indeed.

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Wow, another ad hominem attack.

Guess you beta testers sure earned your spots huh?

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If the same group of people get in each and every time, then it's obvious favoritism. Not to mention there may be others out there who are just as good, if not better, testers than the current crop, but will never get picked because to do so would upset the status quo. Sure, they can throw a bone to a random peep, but the core group remains pretty much the same.

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You are getting the question of "who matters" backwards. It's not us that matter for this process, it's Cryptic and PlayNC who matter. They will pick the group they KNOW to be effective testers. If you want to call that "favoritism", go right ahead ... but you're mischaracterising the situation, and if you have an ounce of sense in you ... you know it.


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There is favoritism on these boards, and you'd have to be blind to not see it. You have people who have been picked for multiple NCSoft betas, and yet, they don't get in. However, other players here do. You still haven't addressed the fact that there may be better testers out there, but since they see that only the same people continue to go in, they have no incentive whatsoever to help.

If it's not us that matter, then it doesn't matter if they change out the people in it, now does it? If they have a specific process that they go through, i.e. Test this today, then anyone with a heartbeat can do it. It's not reliant on the same people being 'necessary' every time.

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What people have to remember is: the Closed Beta is not for the players' benefit, it is for the benefit of Cryptic and PlayNC. Period.

The "player benefit, too" stage is called Open Beta. Those of us, yours truly included, who didn't make the cut this time around ... will just have to wait our turn, to get a peek at the contents of i11.

Remember, everyone: this is a testing process, not a sneak peek preview.


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Except those same people who keep getting in, have a better than average chance at directing which direction the game goes as compared to the plebian crowds outside. Once it gets to Open Beta, the chances of any significant changes based on player feedback (not to mention the needle getting lost in a haystack) happening is slim to nil.

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Still.

Does.

Not.

Matter.

The benefit is not "for players", it is "for Cryptic". Lose out the things that benefit the testers from your consideration ... the fact that you WANT to have X or Y that comes from testing, enough to protest not being in the group doing the testing (which is what yourposts amount to) ... is proof enough to me, that you are indeed complaining about not being in the test group yourself.

It should never be about you, it should always be about the game. Otherwise, you're not a good candidate for the test.

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You are really reading this wrong Pax. As well as putting words into my mouth. I know I'm not getting in, nor do I have any desire to. I do however, have a desire in seeing that the selection process is above-board and non-biased.

If group A have a personal direction they want the game to go, that may not match up with what the general public wants for the game's future, then by continuing to select only group A for these sessions, they have the vastly larger opportunity to affect their desires on the game. If this same group continues to have the devs' ears, then the rest of us might as well not even offer any suggestions, some of which could be extremely benefical to the game.

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The problem with this is, there is no proof that it is the people selected, and not the process itself that is causing the smoother releases.

The only way to be sure is a complete swappage of testers. No single tester should ever be picked for two events in a row, much less three. - Dark_One

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So instead of having people who actually know how to Beta test, just grab a bunch of people who have no clue? Just go in an start playing hoping to figure out they will figure out how to bug hunt on their own??

Personally I think they should invite people who make real bug reports in live, and then a smattering of others who have never been in a beta test. Have a mix of people who actually provide feed back and not just "Ha ha I got Beta and you didn't", and people who should be given a chance to beta who've never been before.

Again, just grabbing random people to Beta doesn't even guarantee they will actually participate in it. Lets say 50 people get choosen, there might be only 10 that might actually play at any length and test, other then make a toon, level it twise and go back to live.

It's not really about who get's in and the "stagnant" state of it all, but about the people who abuse the privilege of beta. These abusers should be excluded from future beta tests, not the people who are actually testing and providing feed back.

Take it as you will, the Devs know what they are doing, but when they need our ideas/help they have a beta test

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You have no proof whatsoever that it is, in fact, the result of the people and not the process itself.

It is about who gets in. If the same group of people get in each and every time, then it's obvious favoritism. Not to mention there may be others out there who are just as good, if not better, testers than the current crop, but will never get picked because to do so would upset the status quo. Sure, they can throw a bone to a random peep, but the core group remains pretty much the same.

Not a single person in the Closed Betas should ever expect that they will get an invite to the next one, but here we are. They can take it for granted that they'll get in. And that taking it for granted can lead to them believing they are better than us schmos who never get in.

Now, take me for instance. I've beta'd E&B, AA (and had several of my ideas put into the game), Eve Online, CoV, LotRO, TR, and Dungeon Runners. I know I'm not even in consideration for any spot in a closed beta, and I'm fine with it. I've bugged tons of text errors, found a personal client crash, and a salvage storage exploit in CoH.

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What people have to remember is: the Closed Beta is not for the players' benefit, it is for the benefit of Cryptic and PlayNC. Period.

The "player benefit, too" stage is called Open Beta. Those of us, yours truly included, who didn't make the cut this time around ... will just have to wait our turn, to get a peek at the contents of i11.

Remember, everyone: this is a testing process, not a sneak peek preview.


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Except those same people who keep getting in, have a better than average chance at directing which direction the game goes as compared to the plebian crowds outside. Once it gets to Open Beta, the chances of any significant changes based on player feedback (not to mention the needle getting lost in a haystack) happening is slim to nil.

And I'm not talking about a 'sneak preview'. I don't want to spoil the surprise on Live.


One thing that would be VASTLY helpful, is for the Closed Beta forums, once it is over, to be opened up to the public so we can see what's going on. Lock the threads, but keep them open for viewing. This secretive manner about everything is NOT helpful, especially with the same group going in ad nauseum.

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If the selection of people is repeated, maybe it is because the last few issues have been relatively smooth for release; I am sure they are adding 'new blood' to the mix as well rather than just the same people. I have read some people who were in previous closed issues who haven't gotten into this one.


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The problem with this is, there is no proof that it is the people selected, and not the process itself that is causing the smoother releases.

The only way to be sure is a complete swappage of testers. No single tester should ever be picked for two events in a row, much less three.


And a very excellent point was brought up about the recipes and the market.

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Doesn't matter, the whole mystery group of beta testers is a ridiculous and should never have been started.

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The whole closed beta and select few being chosen just makes those who are left to stand outside bitter and frustrated, especially if the same people are always chosen.
Just my thoughts on it.

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Very much agreed with both these statements. Quite frankly there is a lot of goodwill being squandered here. I don't care if it is closed for a day or months, the excuse being given is not good enough.

Someone mentioned a catch-22, implying that to get into the closed beta you have to have been in the previous closed beta. Quite honestly they are right.

No player should be in two closed betas in a row.

To do this only breeds resentment for those that do not have a chance.

This has been evident since Issue 7. The forums go nuts with prankers/trolls because they are bored. It has has happened with every closed beta.

Then there are the problems that get found in open beta that do not get changed because "it is too late to do anything about that."

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Snow, I know we have disagreements about stuff (like AFK'ing ), but this is one thing I am in complete agreement with you.

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Selection to be included in the closed beta test of Issue 11 is pretty straightforward. We have selected testers who were helpful with previous closed betas and also included accounts who had recently logged into the Training Room.



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Anyone else see the "Catch-22" in the above-mentioned quote?

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Pretty much.

I can probably name quite a few of the people who have been invited yet again.

Guess there's no Bug Hunters for the rest of us. *shrug*

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I'm thinking, to get a diverse pool of testers


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The problem is, it's the SAME people getting picked pretty much every time. Not seeing much diversity when someone else could provide a different point of view. Instead, a select bunch get a MUCH bigger say in the direction of the game. And no, once it hits Open Beta, it's essentially done. No really major changes will likely get put in.

And no, this isn't a whine that I didn't get in. The only reason I'd want to, is to get a fair shot at Bug Hunter. I prefer not to spoil myself on content on Test. And yes, I've been on Test a few times, notably for special events like CJ's going away party, sometimes to test out a respec.

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I believe Battle Axe and War Mace would be interesting candidates for power sets to be ported over to the Brute AT for a wider audience to enjoy this new feature.

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We tankers will give you Battle Axe and War Mace if you brutes give us Electric Melee and Energy Aura.

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We Brutes will be more than happy to give those powersets. Now we will gladly take delivery of our full powered (not watered down) /Regen.

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So Brutes are happy to give Tankers their cool toys, if they get a Scrappers cool toy? Sounds a bit unfair. :P

However that said, I've never seen why Brutes couldn't get /Regen. If they think it's to powerful in the hand of an AT with more HP...then adjust the percentage rate of heal to make it match scrappers at current rate. Seems fair to me.

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Holy Cow, a reasonable response. Would love to see the powers shared equally. The previous response just said tanks because it was in response to a tank. I live on the villain side, but definately think the hero melee toons should get the same power options. It is the one and only thing that heros can actually say that villains have had it better.

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What's funny is Tanks get Energy Melee, but not the accompanying Armor... It's a no-brainer that they should Energy Aura.

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It fits with Invulnerability.

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If by 'fits' you mean it has the same gaudy glow then yes.

But in terms of thematics, SS fits with Inv better than EM. A character can manipulate Energy to form attacks but can't form that same Energy to defense?

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I believe Battle Axe and War Mace would be interesting candidates for power sets to be ported over to the Brute AT for a wider audience to enjoy this new feature.

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We tankers will give you Battle Axe and War Mace if you brutes give us Electric Melee and Energy Aura.

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We Brutes will be more than happy to give those powersets. Now we will gladly take delivery of our full powered (not watered down) /Regen.

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So Brutes are happy to give Tankers their cool toys, if they get a Scrappers cool toy? Sounds a bit unfair. :P

However that said, I've never seen why Brutes couldn't get /Regen. If they think it's to powerful in the hand of an AT with more HP...then adjust the percentage rate of heal to make it match scrappers at current rate. Seems fair to me.

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Holy Cow, a reasonable response. Would love to see the powers shared equally. The previous response just said tanks because it was in response to a tank. I live on the villain side, but definately think the hero melee toons should get the same power options. It is the one and only thing that heros can actually say that villains have had it better.

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What's funny is Tanks get Energy Melee, but not the accompanying Armor... It's a no-brainer that they should Energy Aura.

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seriously does debuff in this game need IO set ?

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Why not?

It's a power effect that a lot of sets use. There's no point in leaving them out in the cold.

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That's not a good reason not to have female pets as the same can be done with male pets.

Heck I even have a bio on Cameron the Lovely that makes Dorian the Stronge (Bruiser) her boy friend and she cheats on him with my hero too.

Don't need female pets for people to go around acting like pimps and sluts. Besides that why would they care? One of the contacts in St. Martial is a ****. Jezebel Jones and Johnny Sonata is her pimp. Why do you think she has that rope around her and that couch.


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Just because you have a bio on it, doesn't mean it's game-affecting for everyone else.

It won't happen because of the deluge of complaints that will inevitably follow such a setup.

People can do it because that is their choice, but putting in female MM pets will only open up a very ugly can of worms. They would care because the game is rated T for Teen and they would probably like to keep it that way.

Jezebel is a different case because iirc, there is no specific mention of said relationship, but that's left up to the user's own interpretation.

And it's as good a reason as any for there to not be female MM pets.

Haven't you noticed the distinct lack of female NPC baddies in the lower level game? The only ones I can think of are the female Eidolons and female Longbow. Even though the Blue King comics showed female Vahz zombies.

All that being said, yes, I would like a female MM pet set, but I'm realistic enough to realize the chances of it happening are slim to nil.