DSorrow
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Posts
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Joined
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So I guess he has just been very unlucky with the drops then.
Thanks all. -
Quote:Now that you've said that, I'm sure one of the Scrapper aficionados will do that just to prove you wrongOriginally Posted by Acemace
That's just silly. My pre-ED/GDR fire/mace tank filled with HO's would destroy a purpled/pvp-IO Incarnated counterpart in virtually all measurable categories.
For fun after Hami raids I would tank 8-9 giant monsters solo, on a weak fire armor tank, which is certainly impossible post ED, along with many other implausible feats currently, Incarnate or no.
It was funny yeah, but I still prefer the game post I9 because I feel more powerful. I think if they just took away ED and Inventions without giving back the 50% HOs, which IMO are a whole other thing, most characters couldn't attain the power they have now.Quote:I prefer the post ED game and IO's because it's more challenging, but no character will ever be better then a pre-I5 with access to 50% HO's.
If you didn't experience those days, you missed out on some outrageously over the top game play.
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Quote:You can do it without being a master marketeer, trust me on that one. Heck, I haven't even finished school yet and I can do it. I spend on the order of half an hour a week managing my sales and I get my characters kitted out as good as I want/need them.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
You are probably right about my buildout. It is probably completely wrong, still going to complete it.
I am saying pcificaly that on the average of one character per year fully kitted out in purps/PvP I/Os should be available per account/per year, or the equivalent treasure split amongst all the customers alts. This without being a master marketeer. I have used the market since I started this game 3 1/2 years ago am am not even close to that mark. I find it frustrating, and I believe other consumers would too. How many years of constant content plaig do the Devs think is appropriate to completely finish only one character? Seriously, So if I play fifty years I have maybe 7 fully pimped characters? How the heck is that customer satisaction. Oh Wait, now is the point I am told about the fascinating game "City of Wall Street"...go to the kiosk..GO.
I'm sorry I don't have anything else to offer to you but say "learn to use the market efficiently". It has been repeated many times and I feel saying it at this point is quite useless. As I said in another thread, I believe the merit prices of the top-end rares are just fine, but I'd like to see the "lesser rares" and "uncommons" see a lowering in prices. For example, I don't think it'd be unreasonable to get a whole set of Crushing Impact at any level for 1 A merit.
The reason I think the top-end items are fine as they are is because in all of the other games I've played, they were MUCH more difficult to attain, and yet people were happy. Why would I want the "lesser" items made cheaper, then? I think people who want to skip using the market should be able to get builds with uncommon IOs faster than they currently can. To be able to get the real top-end stuff some sacrifices are needed, one being learning and having to use the market.
I digress, so let me stop here. -
That's what I've always thought. Any kill that awards any reputation should give drops, but because I stopped PvPing when I9 hit, I don't really have any clue as to how it's supposed to work, which is why I'm asking.
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Achieving the influence cap. That is, having 2bil influence on a character at once by any means (trades etc. are okay).
Jumping off of a skyscraper in Steel should also give one. -
My friend asked me a question about PvP IOs I couldn't answer, and because he's not familiar with these forums I'll post the question here for him.
Is a certain amount of PvP rep needed (like 1.00 reputation for each kill) to be eligible for a PvP IO drop or do you only need a "valid" PvP kill?
Reason he's asking this is because he got one of his PvP characters to around 400 rep some time ago and has been getting less than 1 rep (between 0.5 and 0.03) for each kill, and has had no drops in a few weeks now. -
Quote:After 5 years I have over 10 50s as fully kitted out as I want them.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
i am very glad you are enjoying your gaming experience. I am just saying, in my opinion, that the Devs would be better served if long term customers such as yourself could have 4-5 characters fuly kitted out in your 5 years, or the equivalent of that treasure spread amongst all your alts. In general, long term customes should see these reward, where I see them concentrated in the hands of farmers and marketeers.
Do I expect to be able to kit them out just because I want to do it? No. Do I expect to have to do something towards being able to do it? Yes. How do I do it? I learn the most efficient method of doing it so that I don't have to "waste" my game time doing boring stuff instead of playing how I want.
Expectations vs. reality, that's all this is about. Because reality is difficult to change, perhaps you should look into altering your expectations. -
I'm not sure why we're trying to convince a person who has said "I won't respond to your arguments from this point on"*. Is there any reason to keep this discussion going other than it being amusing?
*I'll provide quotes if asked -
Quote:And that's exactly what they get. They will be super with SOs and common IOs. They'll be super even with no enhancements all. It all depends on what level of super you're expecting. If you're expecting Batman super (take on a half a dozen thugs at once and win) you get that with SOs. If you're expecting godlike super (never get scratched, win even against armies of signature bosses) your choices are either to work towards it like or stop playing and start hoping they release City of Gods where everyone is god by default.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
They are looking for a super powered video game.
Excuse me if I'm coming off snarky, but it really seems to me the root of the problem are your expectations, not the game, and that's what frustrates me. You want this game changed because you don't like it.
EDIT: *mumbles something about Chaos Creator being fast...* -
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Quote:It is possible. Fury_Flechette had a thread here where they made two billion in one week starting from scratch with a non-farmer character. 6 months is half a year so 26 weeks. At that rate it's 52 billion in 6 months.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Would our current group of marketeers consider this a possibility? Call it 5 purple sets (only 5 per, for efficiency), so 25 purples, and lets say 15 PvP I/Os, a couple procs, a global or 3, and never forget the 5 LOTG 7.5%, this stoner will need them. Do that in 6 months on the market and have 2 billion change left over. Is this possible?
The better question than is it possible would be "is it smart" or "is that the best build". More often than not going for the best build doesn't mean just tossing in the most expensive items. Realizing that should reduce the stress of not being able to get the best single items. -
I sincerely hope Blue_Centurion reads this and doesn't consider the irony in this post personal insults, it's just how I am even to my friends. I'd tell you to ask them, but you don't know any of them so this would have no validity at all.
Quote:Did it ever cross your mind that others consider your theories wrong because, well, they could be wrong?Originally Posted by Blue_CenturionHowever, except for this Brute, only Doms could possibly benefit from recharge more. I am not going to present my theories for this again, I know many consider thm wrong, the way I am doing it wrong, whatever. I am chasing the dragon with this build, and whether or not i catch the beast I will not go off the hunt.
I could add a remark about how smart it is to "chase a dragon" if chasing it takes all your funds and catching the dragon isn't the best thing you can catch with those funds, but I won't bother. Oh wait, I think I just did that.
So you are saying that everyone getting them makes people play more? Or even getting them faster than now? Which brings me to that question you seem to be unwilling to answer. Why can't you do it with the current market setup when others can? Why do you think it is not approppriate that completely pimping out one toon with purples/PvP IOs takes some effort? If you are the market/newbie guru, why are the figures you constantly keep posting (250mil for purples, 500mil for PvP IOs) a good price and why do you believe this would help you get/retain customers when it has demonstrably been shown that many customers wouldnt like this change?Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_CenturionSo, you ares aying that by never getting this makes people play more? Or, get them once in a great while? Which brings me to that question everyone that disagrees with me seems unwilling to answer. How long? How long do you think it is appropriate to take to completely purple/PvP I/O one character, at the expense of all others? If you were in a marketing strategy sesson for the game, what figure would you throw out as to a good time range, and hy do you believe this wold help you get/retain customers?
See what I did there? On a more serious note, I think it should take long. I'm not sure how long, but I've been playing the game for over 5 years and my main is still far from finished even though I've poured multiple billions in the build (purples, PvP IOs, you name it). So I guess longer than 5 years is my answer.
I'm not sure what you are seeing here, because your post doesn't mirror my understanding of seebs' post at all. I'll try to keep it short. He says completely IOing characters happens, but isn't sure if we should be able to do it.Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_CenturionWow, within a few short sentences yougo from it is demonstrably able to be done to you are not even sure that it should be practically possible. And everyone you meet? I have never, ever said everyone in the cities should have this. At the rate of one character per year kitted out in this fashion people who play 3 years would have 3, and all their alts would be pretty much what we see now.Quote:Originally Posted by seebsOkay, first off, people can demonstrably do that in under a year if they really want to.
I am not particularly sure that it should be practically possible to fully kit out a character in "ultra rares". Ultra rare does not mean "everyone you meet has twenty or more of them".
Not directly, no, but a short search (2 minutes) with only one keyword provides these results which imply it quite strongly.Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_CenturionI have never, ever said everyone in the cities should have this.
Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_CenturionWouldnt it be nice to have a very active game with lotsa newbs getting 50s and having lotsa Purps? YES.Why do you still go on?Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_CenturionSet it so that in an average 3 month playing at 50 content ( 20 hours per week let's call it, so 240 hours at 50 ) there is a 90% likelihood of getting 6 high end enhancers, purple or Pvp. -
One way I thought of estimating it, but it's a bit rough.
Level 45-50 Gold Roll costs 4k tickets. It also costs 20 R merits, or 0.2 A merits, or 10 R merits and 4mil inf. (100 R merits equal 5 random rolls which equal 1 A merit)
First we need to value R merits in influence.
20 R merits = 0.2 A merits
20 R merits = 10 R merits + 4mil inf
10 R merits = 4 mil inf
1 R merit = 4,000,000 inf / 10
1 R merit = 400,000
4,000 tickets = 20 R merits
4,000 tickets = 20 * 400,000
1 ticket = 20 * 400,000 / 4,000
1 ticket = 20 * 1,000
1 ticket = 20,000
So 1 ticket is roughly worth 20k inf, which to me seems quite a bit higher than I'd have expected.
To get a more accurate result you'd have to see what corresponding abilities tickets and R merits have (What can you buy directly? Random rolls?) and then value these abilities in some fashion. Availability is also a question that would have to be answered. Then you'd have to choose a pricing point for both (Did you random roll both?) and probably take an average of all possible values for R merits and all possible values for A merits and tickets. Too much work for me so I'm just using the easiest dev given metrics (level 50 random rolls) to evaluate these things. -
Quote:Agree.Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
Or bothered to click on the NPCs at WW and the BM who will explain exactly how it works.
I mean, I have sympathy for new players, especially players who have little MMO experience. CoX was my first MMO, too. However, that meant that when I found something new that I didn't understand, I looked for a source of info, and there it was, right inside the market itself. Not only that, but I'd been specifically pointed towards it at the end of the IO tutorial.
I sympathize being new and not understanding, even not wanting to use a feature of a game, but I do not sympathize not bothering to learn or crying because of refusing to use an existing feature.
That said, I'd like to see better prices for certain items when bought with merits because often it is downright stupid to buy an item with X number of merits when you could get a much more valuable item for the same merits, sell it and buy a dozen of the things you actually wanted. The result would be that those who do not want to touch the market with a ten feet pole could get their own items a bit more effectively, while still being slower at it than those who make use of all the features offered to them. This would be very hard to implement correctly, though, because what's valuable today might be junk tomorrow... -
Quote:Originally Posted by DSorrow
Great post (EDIT: reply to seebs' wall of text), to which he will respond, "yeah, but I still want purples for less than what they're worth" and goes on with his crusade.What did I tell you?Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Worthy of repost, in entirety. As pointed out after this, I may still be like "It takes too long". Yes, yes I would. I have been very clear about what price points (250 mil for purps, 500 mil for PvP I/Os) and how long it should approximately take to kit out one character really sweet (including Purps, Procs, Globals, and PvPs, about a year at 50) I think this would suit the game well, and anything too much longer than this threats with being discouraging.Quote:Originally Posted by seebssnipped wall of text
While you make a very fine point, I have yet to hear people that disagree with me explain exactly how long they think it should take to "Ultimate I/O build" a character from scratch. I have placed my opinions out, and have made myself a giant target. Those who disagree with me use every tactic from taunting barb, to wall of I feel your pain text, to "you'e doing it wrong", but I have yet to see anyone with the courage to explain why the current market system works (please do not edit the rest out here) in a way that works for newcomers to the game, making it fun and encouraging. Nor have I heard anyone with the courage to say how long they think it should take to kit out a character from scratch. Although it has been fun to isten to 2-3 of the posters be like "I kitted mine out in like a few months, so everything is fine now, don't tell the Devs to change it, move along" -
Just you.
The animations are relatively fast. IIRC the three first attacks have comparable animation times to Claws attacks and only Concentrated Strike and Focused Burst have really long animation times, and CS does enough damage to warrant the animation time. The damage of KM is also at the high end of the scale especially for single target damage. If you properly leverage Power Siphon you should be pumping out some very heavy ST. AoE seems mediocre. -
Quote:I'm not surprised to be honest. He has presented many other "threads of logic" of the same quality, so he must be experienced in this kind of thing.Originally Posted by all_hell
It's interesting that he can hold both the position that he doesn't understand the market and that he knows how to 'fix' it. All the while telling people who're successfully using the market how wrong they are.
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Quote:I'm only continuing posting because this thread is so hilarious.Originally Posted by The_Ringer
Wow...just wanna give a little golf clap here. 27 pages of win.
Finally someone who understands! It is indeed very difficult to sell your drops to the market so I suggest price caps be put in place to make it easier.Quote:Was reading through this and I started thinking about how, when CoV first released, I would be very careful to sell all my TOs and take DOs to the store of their orgin all in the hopes of maybe affording a few SOs.
Yeah gee, the market is sure a bummer. The worst part about it is how hard it's made it for a new player to get started financially. Yep. -
Quote:Great post, to which he will respond, "yeah, but I still want purples for less than what they're worth" and goes on with his crusade.Originally Posted by UberGuy
I don't know if it will end up lining up with B_C's outlook, seebs, but I think that was a great post.
I don't think he's the right guy you should be trying to make know the difference between need vs. want and reality vs. expectations. After all, we've been trying to do that for almost 30 pages and what have we accomplished? Not much if anything at all.
Then again, I can just practice my English here writing snarky remarks that are tangential to the topic.
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Quote:I quit.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
You seem to not be reading my posts, so this is the last time I will respond to you. You have to use the market like a store in oredr to use the I/O system. That is, unless you want to collect every recipe and ingredient yourself.
Seriously, over 500 hundred posts several of which have explained to you that the market is not a store and you still don't understand. I guess for you trying to learn new stuff is an exercise in futility, so I give up trying to teach.
By the way, I did read your posts and my replies mirror what I thought the contents of your posts were. Basically you wanting stuff right now, but at a price lower than others are willing to pay because you aren't willing to put in the effort.
Don't bother replying, you can't possibly undermine your own argument any better than with the bolded section of the quote. I believe you can blow 42 months worth of savings if you really believe the market functions like a store. That said, the "using the wrong metric" sort of analogy is perfect here: if you don't use it how it's intended, don't cry when the effects don't work out to be how you'd like them to be. See? If you use the market as a store, you will be using much more influence than necessary. Smart use of the market will have you save your bits of virtual money, but I guess it's all about not bothering to learn stuff and then crying because of it.
Getting angry, are you? You know, caps don't make you seem any more intelligent or make your arguments any more valid. Rather the opposite. Then again, I guess "we wouldn't be saying this to your face in real life. We wouldn't." Perhaps you being a big chap and using an aggressive tone makes opposition quiet in real life, but sadly internet tough guys only attract opposition who mostly come just for laughs. Too bad.Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_CenturionYOU NEED TO USE THE MARKET IN ORDER TO USE THE I/O SYSTEM. You hear that? loud enough?
Lol at this thread and its purpose
EDIT:/agreeQuote:Originally Posted by NethergoatI'm beginning to think I was waaaaaaay too generous with my 'plate of onion rings' analogy. -
Quote:There is, I'll paraphrase it.Originally Posted by Lohenien
There is no logical argument you can successfully use to justify that kind of a position.
"It has to be changed because I want stuff without putting the effort towards earning them." -
On the other hand, you could still start leveling your Corruptor because you can start working towards the alignment shift at level 20 the earliest. This way you could have your Corruptor set at level 20 when you actually buy GR.
I don't know how much you play, but I guess it would take you some time anyway to get to 20 unless you PL. -
Quote:MMOs always favour farmers and long term marketeers. Always. Give me one example of a populated MMO that is not and I'll admit I'm wrong.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I was discussing my feelings. Lets just say that I know how I feel, and since yo refuse to read my words, or believe they are not true, you do not.
So, I repeat again. I FEEL the market is unfavorably weighted to farmers and long term marketeers to the disadvantage of new and content driven players. This is a feeling. It is my feeling. Saying it once, with honesty, is all that is required. I may be wrong, but my feeling is entirely true. The fact of the matter is I believe new and casual players may feel the way I do much more readily than they will come around to your position. So, the game is skewed in your favor, you want it to stay that way, even if it hurts new City of customers. In my opinion. My feeling.
If you set the price caps of purples and PVP IOs to 500mil, rares to 250mil or whatever arbitrary sum might be chosen, it would still favour farmers and marketeers. If they aren't the only ones who can get those items, they will be able to get more of them and yet again we would have people whining about it. The only solution to that is to make them so cheap that anyone can get full sets of purples faster than they can get to 50, which again would devalue the sense of achievement and in the end lead to people getting bored with the game. Is this what you want to happen?
Also, I'd still like to know why your feeling that a change is needed is more valuable and important than my feeling that a change is not needed. -
Quote:And why exactly is your FEELING (market needs to be changed) more important than that of the majority posting (market does NOT need to be changed)? Is it because you don't like it while we (the majority in this thread) do? I bet you the average player doesn't even care much about the market, so changing it does not affect their play much if at all. However, those who start using the market (and detach from their casualness) would see a big change and most probably would not like it at all. My advice to you? Stop using the market like a store. I'll once more reiterate what I've said, this time in a form so simple even you can understand it: "If you don't bother learning the rules of the market, don't cry when it doesn't work the way you want it to work"
I FEEL that the market needs adjusting, since after 42 mnths of play I must strip every toon I have of all treasure to fully complete one character, and still fall short of having the supplies needed.
Your marketing and playing skills, as well as earning/spending tactics in general have a direct effect on how much "treasure" you will amass when playing a character. Don't be ridiculous and say "these things do not matter".Quote:Now, many have commented on my play skill, my tactics, and lesser relevant things about me. Much like my market skill, these things do not matter.
Basically, all this thread seems to be about is you arguing market should be changed because you don't like it, and the reason you don't like it is because you refuse to put in the effort to learn more effective ways to get the rarest stuff in the game. Lol.
I'm not sure if I should even mention how ridiculous I find it that your "dream build" is just a bunch of the most expensive items in the game, while it could be much better and more effective with way cheaper slotting. Perhaps if you realized that you would cease whining. -
I think, unless BC comments something obscenely preposterous, this will be my last post because I seriously feel like I'm debating with a wall here.
Using the wrong metrics to measure things will get you the wrong results. If you use a stopwatch to measure the volume of a cup, you'll most likely get a bad result. At best, you'll luckily get the right result, but it's not valid because you cannot really find any proper data to support this result. Why did I post this analogy? Well, if you use your feelings to measure things you think are broken with the market, you won't get valid results. That is the important thing here. If you wanted to convince us that the majority (you do not make up the majority, sorry) of the players, especially these average and casual ones, think that the market is broken, conduct a survey and show the results to us. You see, when talking to people who are familiar with the market and who don't think it is broken, circumstantial evidence doesn't suffice.
Refusing to acknowledge other posts and learning their contents doesn't help your campaign, by the way. Even if stuffing your fingers into your ears and going "NANANANANANANA" might work in real life, it doesn't work here because we're all tireless geeks who will go on about explaining how and why you are wrong. Have you yet read my post about the burden of proof or was the truth about your position's invalidity too much, so you chose to ignore it?
I'd also like to know why you choose not to reply to so many valid counter-arguments. You mentioned having had a few courses of philosophy, so I'd think the first thing you learn there is that you lose an argument if someone comes up with a valid counter-argument you cannot dismiss. I also believe you should be familiar with the burden of proof, but I guess like in this thread, you chose to ignore whatever seems to make things harder on you.
I'm starting to question my own sanity because I go on replying to these posts each time expecting you to wake up from your dream world. "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein"