Cyber_naut

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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Werner View Post
    You make a change because you believe the game will be better overall if you make that change.
    This. And this should be the first and most important question the devs should answer before making any change to the game. Does the change improve the game, and why.

    From my standpoint, this change will make the game less fun for me. My SD has given me one of my favorite toons to use when I feel like going on an all out offensive. Cutting it's best attack to 1/2 damage will probably ruin that toon for me and take away one of the options in the game I enjoy. It also makes me feel like I wasted a lot of time and effort to build it to where it's at, and makes me less confident in building up new toons. I'm certain may people who have SD's will feel the same way.

    And having an SD hasn't had any negative effect on the game for me. It hasn't caused me not to play other powersets or at's and I still have several other toons that I rank at the same level as my SD that are better at some things and worse at others.

    I think I could understand those who support the nerf better if they could explain how SC is specifically hurting the game for them, in terms of their gaming experience.
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
    Yeah...I think I broke sometime around the combo killer that was 4am, someone telling Castle how bad he was at his job and, to top it odd, someone basically trying to insult Arcana...
    I mean....Aracanaville? The devs themselves even use the phrase 'Arcanatime' for pete sake! Thats like...like...messing with someone I dont actually have a parallel for!

    (And before anyone shouts fanboi/devpet, etc, make sure you read up on the ongoing rants in the art/revamp camp fan I am, gloryboy I ain't.)

    OK, ok, I'd like to recant my 'devpet' statement, lol. It's not fair to label anyone that, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
  3. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    Well, snapping my fingers takes only about one second, so it wouldn't set the devs back very far (I said "if I could snap my fingers...").

    On a more serious level, replacing the current implementation tools cold-turkey would be disruptive. But in situations like this, the best way to phase them in is to design the new tools to interoperate with the old ones, and supplement them. That's possible, and in fact in a certain sense that exists now, just in a very unofficial and unconventional way.
    First off, I wonder what their original 'design tools' were, they must have had some method to their madness. The problem with 'phasing in' new tools is that you could create new imbalances that were bigger than the original imbalance if the new standards don't mesh with the old ones.

    You talk of assymetric balance, and I think this game has that. Energy melee, for example, WAS assymetrically balanced in that it did ridiculously good single target damage vs ridiculously bad aoe capabilities (though I would argue it was actually, overall, underpowered due to the value of aoe vs single target capabilities), while other competing sets were more symetrically balanced. Energy Transfer was ridiculously good but it was balanced by the fact the rest of the set was pretty ridiculously bad. Then castle came in with his new balance equation and busted em down to single target capabilities that are on par with several competing sets, while still being ridiculoulsy underpowered in the aoe department, specifically in comparison to some of the sets that now were on par with em in single target strength. Instead of a set with one great redeeming power, em was left with a set of mediocre to poor powers. Phasing in his new design tool left em an underperforming, underplayed mess.


    Quote:
    I disagree in two senses: I disagree they would constantly fiddle without some really strong cause, and I disagree that implementing a reasonably balanced game is a hopeless cause. It just requires the right numerical approach. Unfortunately, the only way to demonstrate that thesis would be to actually implement an entire game system with that philosophy and demonstrate that there is such a thing as good enough in balance terms, and that it has a reasonable chance of being reachable in a real live implementation. At the moment, there isn't one I can point to, unfortunately.
    It's human nature, imo, to fiddle with things, especially ones own creation. Most people don't settle for 'good enough' even if what they have is working fine and getting the job done.

    And if you support the assymetrical balance, then some things will seem better than others to players, players will complain, and you'll end up with situations like this, or like the situation with EM, where devs would feel compelled to react to player outcries.

    But ultimately, I just don't feel the perfect set of design tools and/or design equation exists, without dumbing the game down to ridiculous levels. I don't think humanity is capable of creating some flawless design that would never run into an unforseen problem and not require tweaking down the road.


    Quote:
    This presumes balance is synonymous with equality. Nothing could be further from the truth. Real game balance supports a greater amount of diversity than imbalance does, because real game balance allows you to hit what you aim for. The reason this is not obvious is that the real cost to being unable to balance effectively is that an entire range of possibilities is simply never attempted, because they cannot be controlled. There is an entire shadow of our game that would theoretically work just fine, but you and I will never see. We can only guess at what that loss actually is, but consider this: the cost in time and resources to bring just the defense sets from where they were at launch to where they were in I5 was quite possibly comparable to the effort required to add all the defense sets added to the game since that time. We could have had those *then* and an entirely new set of things now.
    To be fair, a lot of what was accomplished from the start of this game to now REQUIRED trial and error. New games can draw from what they've learned from older games, but unless their games utilize the exact same mechanics, they too will go through a trial and error learning process because nothing we make is flawless.

    Quote:
    Now, as to the issue of whether good game balance requires exact equality, I bring you Exhibit One:



    This game should be required study for every games design program on Earth. It should also be required study for every person that wants to claim that reasonable game balance is impossible without making everything identical.

    According to a lot of MMO players out there, this game is an impossibility: an asymmetric, balanced game (in fact, an asymmetric balanced *PvP* game).
    If you look at some of my posts you'll see I've argued against many people who seem opposed to this type of balancing.

    I think some sets are getting wrecked because they're balanced with 'ogres'. People see the ogre and immediately assume the set is overpowered without realizing other sets are just as good, they simply use a nice mix of infantry and missile tanks. Just because a set's strength is more obvious if it lies in one or two powers does not necessarily mean the set is overpowered. I think this is especially true with what happened with energy melee.




    Quote:
    When I was in Seattle a few years ago I went to the museum of glass. On the wall was a quote that summarizes my thoughts on this perfectly. I'm going from memory, but I believe this is an exact quote:

    There is no art without craftsmanship, and no craft without artistry.


    In my mind, talking about the numbers in an MMO as if they were something separate from and less important than the "art" of the MMO is like saying there's no need to practice the piano when throwing bowling balls at the keyboard is just as artistic and equally acceptable.

    Which is why I implied a nice mix of artistry and craftmanship is important, and that I felt this game has that, which is probably why I like it so much.
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards View Post
    Well Cyber_naut, you have to realize that there are others that are not interested in Brute or Stalker mechanics, as well as their AT modifiers.

    Powerset proliferation is low hanging fruit; easy to do. However, I don't expect any to be done until after Issue 19.

    Hey, I've been begging for SS for scrappers for about 3-4 years now. But with the way the devs seem to be influenced by forum posts, I'm betting scrappers would end up with 'mediocre strength' rather than 'super strength', and it could even end up damaging SS for brutes and tanks, but I'd love to be proven wrong on that one, lol.
  5. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim View Post
    Strangely, I'm more keen on getting new sets that proliferation. Dual Pistols and Electric Control hold a lot more appeal for me than anything else right now.

    Though I suppose Axe and Mace will be fun spread about... they're both quite visceral sets.
    I used to be all about proliferation, but with GR coming out, not so much. If you want a SS scrapper just roll a brute. If you want ninjitsu, roll a stalker. I'd rather see some new powersets come out than have the devs spend time converting the same sets for another at that is pretty similar already to the at that already has the powerset I'm looking to use.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    I can't think of any other way to judge the design tools as being "better" other than to be able to generate the same desired results faster and more error-free. Every balance problem Castle works on is a critter we don't get: every error correction translates to powersets we won't ever get to play. Think about where we would be today if just *half* of the balance problems and typographical errors from release to now were prevented by better design and analysis tools.

    The more I think about it, the more I think I should just write some.
    True, but this far into the game, can you go back and reset all the design tools, then force all of your existing material into that setup, while still providing new content to keep a player base?

    And even if you had a better set up/organized design system, devs would still tinker with existing powers looking for that elusive 'perfect balance' which imo, is nearly impossible in a game with so many variables involved.

    Even with what appears to be a bit of a haphazard design system, the game works pretty well overall, and even though there are clearly imbalances, it still provides an enjoyable gaming experience. It seems everyone has accepted the idea of balance equates to some sort of nirvana, and I'm not so sure that is an unquestionable truth. It can be argued that having some imbalance allows for more variety and adds flavor to the game. If all the sets were perfectly balanced and all did the same exact single target damage and aoe damage overall, to me, that would be a boring, uninspired mess.

    I think it's the old math/science vs art thing, some people have to keep the color absolutely inside the lines, others scribble all over the place - i think this game is somewhere in the middle, and it works, for me at least. I just wish the games 'artists' would stop messing with the pictures they've already completed and make some new ones.
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim View Post
    Yeah... I really do enjoy how the game is set up. I kind of understand how it can get a tad unbalanced, but I also like it. I'd be interested to see what the new endgame stuff does to make the game more challenging. If it ups the difficulty for that content without changing how the AOEs work, I'm fine.



    I snipped this down a bit. Basically, I would say Werner is overdoing it, since all Castle has said is that Shield Charge would get toned back (he even said what the numbers were supposed to be which are still QUITE good). Of course, it's up to him to decide what he wants to invest in.

    There is still the basic problem that other people pointed out, and it's that things are going to change in the game. Preferably it won't be too many nerfs, but it is going to happen. You just can't expect things not to change, even if it has been in the game awhile.

    And believe me, I do also feel the irony you describe of Fiery Aura now needing improvements (well, on top of others that have been made over the years). Really, Burn was the more overpowered portion of the set, and it got smacked down overly hard... which revealed other weaknesses in the set (oh, and I do think Consume could use lower recharge as well... a lot of other end recovery powers have much less recharge). Burn needed to be toned down, that's for sure, but I wish it had been adjusted well when it got hit so hard.
    I just hope when they look at SD, they look at what they did to sets like FA and EM when they 'looked' at them, and not make the same mistakes, and overnerf the set into becoming an underperforming set that isn't fun to play. And IMO, SC is a HUGE reason why SD is fun to play and worth leveling up. Obviously, I'd have to wait to see how badly they weaken it to see if its still worth playing for me, but cutting the damage in half would probably ruin the set for the way I enjoy it.

    As many people as there are who complain that SC is too powerful, a similar amount of players complain about SD being a bit weak comparative to other sets leveling up. If they're going to hamstring SC, maybe they could throw people a bone by buffing up some of the other powers so it's a bit better on SO's and at lower levels.
  8. Has anyone else noticed the irony of talking about undoing nerfs that were made to FA so long ago to a supposedly 'overpowered' and 'imbalanced' powerset, that is now an underpowered and underplayed powerset in the wake of SD's castration?
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
    Congratulations! I have yet to slot a single purple enhancer, ever, and I do anything I darn well want to. Purples are far overpriced, and simply not that neccesary.





    Yeah, I suspect there will be nothing good whatsoever in Going Rogue, and the Incarnates powers/abilities are going to be totally boring, too.

    ...wait. No, there's CRAP-TON of neat stuff looming on the horizon. I suspect alt-itis will keep us all going for years to come. SD is just another FOTM.




    Stay strong, man! STAY STRRRRRONG!

    The point he was making, i think, is - there probably is some really good stuff in GR, and he'll probably invest a ******** of time into it only to find out the thing he liked was 'too good' because someone put the wrong values in, over a year ago, and then it would get nerfed into something that didn't appeal to him. That's what this kind of activity creates - uncertainty, which pisses off many customers, even if it doesn't bother you specifically.
  10. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    As I've said before, if I could add anything to the game by snapping my fingers, it would not be new zones or powersets or task forces: it would be better design tools.
    There's nothing in this game right now that is so terribly broken that I would prefer 'better design tools' over new content, but opinions vary I guess (unless the better design tools resulted in faster production of new content in the future...). I think most of the playerbase right now is flat out dying for new content, not sitting around angry that SC is doing so much damage, so thank god GR is on the way.
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Silencer7 View Post
    It's kind of amazing to me how much stock people put in the influence of the forums. If /shield is going to get nerfed it's going to get nerfed, so matter what kind of messaging people try to propogate in the scrapper forum. The devs aren't so clueless that they have no idea what /shield is capable of.

    I have an SS/shield brute and I'll cry as hard as anyone if shield charge gets toned down, but... it needs it. And that's on my brute, who has to balance defensive needs against damage. I can't imagine how nuts it must be on a scrapper who can just go all out for damage and recharge.
    What are you talking about, scrappers need to worry about 'defensive needs' as much as a brute, especially an SD running AAO, and they have less health as well...
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frosticus View Post
    IMO the set needs more slow resistance, like upwards of 60%+, it still relies very heavily on its heal, the 20% added to temp protection was mildly pacifying, but is still easily overwhelmed by pretty much any and all -rech thrown at it.

    Blazing Aura is just a tiny bit better than other damage auras. I think it needs to inherent the standard chance of additional fire dot. Obviously pretty low value, just ticks of like an extra 2 damage. Does two things: makes BA better and gives it the impression of setting things on fire cause even if they leave the aura they can still take a small amount of damage. Increase radius to 10ft (this can happen to all auras imo)

    FE needs to be improved a lot. 30 duration for fire damage (to match brute/dom), 20 duration for non-fire. Reduce rech to 150. It provides no tohit buff so it should be a bit better than buildup at boosting damage.

    Love to see Rofflecopter of the Pheonix made usable while alive. Even if it comes with a heavy damage reduction down to 150-200 base.

    Some great ideas for burn have been presented in this thread already. Back when we were all happier about life I'm still a huge fan of making it into a firewalk kind of drop pet, but that is probably a pipe dream.
    I'd like to see consume improved. At least lower the recharge time considerably.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by SBeaudway View Post
    The points you make are why I, and many others, play this MMO and not one of the others. If I want to single mob pull and fight things by ones and twos, I'll go play those games. In this game I can fight piles of minions, several LTs, and a couple Bosses all at once. That's always what the game has been, that's why I'm here. It does make me feel more superheroic than the other MMO model.
    Same. It's a super hero game, I don't enjoy having a super hero getting killed by two hellions, lol. Now in a game where you're just some regular schmo, you could get greased by anybody, and that's fine. And I'm not saying it's that bad in this game either, I'm simply saying I'd rather see more powers like SC, and less powers like whirling hands.

    Thing is, I think most of the people who play this game want to feel 'overpowered', you know, like a super hero... I noticed this fact when AE came out and whenever we played one of the more challenging missions (ie. the ones that could kill off players regularly) everyone seemed to despise those, and seemed to favor the easy ones (ie, the ones where they felt really powerful). Does that mean let the players be invincible? Of course not, but powers like SC don't make you anywhere near invincible.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Werner View Post
    Yeah, I don't think I'll continue forward with my IOing plans for my Fire/Shield, and I'll probably dump what I've bought so far back into the base. My intent was to make a damage powerhouse. The AoE portion of that now sounds likely to take a big hit, probably about the time I finish earning the billions of influence and dumping it all into the character, since that takes me months. No thanks. No longer worth the time investment.

    I'm not saying that it shouldn't be examined. Perhaps it should. I'm just not going to bother IOing something that's definitely going to be examined. I am way, way too tired of fixing or abandoning carefully-crafted characters that the devs nerf or even buff into something not at all like what I planned. Perhaps if someone could just tell me what powers and which IOs might be STABLE for a couple years, it'll be worth the investment. But obviously that can't happen. At this point, I'm kind of thinking I'll never bother with a top end build again. I'll just keep leveling up alts until I tire of that, and then give up on the game completely.

    Again, not saying not to nerf Shield Charge. Not working as intended, blah blah blah, fine, whatever.

    But I'm just not sure if I can take it any more.
    And here is a great reason why you don't mess with stuff that's been in the game for so long, this late in the games life, unless it's ridiculously broken. And sure, SD does lots of damage, but it hasn't stopped people from playing other sets, nor is SD an 'auto win' button. It's exceptional but not game breaking.

    People like werner will abandon their build and move on or quit, while a lot of other angry players will have to strip their sd's of IO's with the limited respec system and move on to something else, while a bunch more will rage quit. All that for what? Is SD damaging the game that much? I'd argue no, obviously, lol.

    If you're going to make massive adjustments to a powerset, that is what beta is for. If you miss it in beta, catch it within a few months. But to wait over a year is just flat out ridiculous. And yeah, I've heard the argument 'all the other mmo's do it' - ok, but they almost always have the results you see here, disgruntled players who lose confidence in what they are playing, and end up losing the desire to play it.
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
    *heh* So "devpet" is your preferred equivalent to fanboi i take it. A term used to automatically dismiss and deride anyone who doesn't agree with your constant negativity and contempt for the Devs.

    i have to wonder why you continue subscribing to this game the way you constantly state your contempt for those running it. From what i've seen of your posts in this thread and similar threads regarding the Devs' approach to balancing the game i don't see how any characters could survive combat with a single even con minion at this point if the Devs were as incompetent and nerf hungry as you constantly assert.

    i certainly can't believe the Dev team your posts seem to describe could add any functional new sets or powers to the game. They certainly wouldn't put in something like IO's unless they added character-wide penalties for slotting them.

    If the Devs are so stupid, vindictive and incompetent, and everything's being nerfed into uselessness, why are you even bothering to post? They'll just nerf shields into uselessness anyway, just like they recently did to DP with i17's changes. After all, they're too incompetent and out of touch to do otherwise, right?

    i hardly think the Devs can do no wrong, but i actually think they can (and do) get things right on occasion as well. My expectation is that sometime in the near future Shield Charge will be nerfed and FA buffed. i don't think either will be that extreme, but i will reserve judgment until i have more information. Probably because i'm some sort of devpet and fanboi who thinks the Devs can occasionally do something right.
    I think the devs get things 'right' most of the time. If I see something I disagree with, I voice my disagreement, it's as simple as that.

    Now, you equating that to me hating everything the devs do, and that I think all the devs are completely incompetent is simply wrong, untrue, and complete nonsense.

    I'm guessing that stems from me mentioning 'devpets', lol. That would refer to posters who do exactly what I described, in that they defend anything and everything they do, absolutely. Now if you don't do that, then you're not a devpet and I clearly was not referring to you, so why be so upset? Come in close for a big hug little buddy.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shrikefire View Post
    I know what you mean, since dual blades/pistols both seem more style than substance, but otherwise, sets seem to be generally improving. DS, for instance, is not only adequate, but one of the best MM primaries now.

    So hopefully KM will have some power to go with its flashiness.
    Actually, dual blades can be pretty top notch. If demon summoning is a top set like you say, then hopefully dual pistols was just a... mistake, lol? We'll see 'soon' enough I guess, so probably some time in late december...
  17. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
    What current trends? Oh, you mean DP?

    Because Willpower, Shields and Demon Summoning all kick pretty hard ***, lol.
    Yeah, I meant DP obviously. Long flashy animations that lead to an underperforming set. Like I said, I fully hope that I'm totally wrong...

    Willpower isn't exactly a current trend, nor is SD really, but with SD, from what castle has recently posted, it's not going to kick pretty hard threestars for very long, lol.

    Haven't tried DS, but i"m not sure you could make a weak MM set could you? Maybe hamster summoning or something.
  18. Cyber_naut

    Ice Melee?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards View Post
    Owch. Now that one hurt.
    With that lady, it looks like it would hurt...
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards View Post
    I personally wouldn't mind if Castle left the numbers as they are, or if he reduced them to their proposed numbers.

    Yeah, I doubt many people will mind.


    "Yo Scrappers. I'm really happy for you, I'm going to let you finish talking about how much you hate the fact Shield Charge doesn't even kill elderly poodles on life support now, but whirling hands is one of the best powers of all time. OF ALL TIME.
  20. Cyber_naut

    Ice Melee?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    Am I weird for being a bit turned on by this pic? lol never happened with any videogame character ever.

    Now I want the magic booster and ultra mode just to make a toon with tighs like these lol.

    Not at all, she look pretty horny too.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards View Post
    Yo Scrappers. I'm really happy for you, I'm going to let you finish talking about Shield Defense nerfs, but Castle said one of the best things of all time. OF ALL TIME.



    Yeah everybody, don't focus on shield charge getting de-balled, you might get one point of kb protection in rise of the phoenix!!!
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frosticus View Post
    I hope the people(s) responsible for the series of separate and distinct errors that have resulted in SC being what it is today get the wet noodle beating they deserve or however PS doles out reprimands to prevent such future easily avoidable mistakes.

    It is a big disconcerting though, the "clients" have been sending in reports that should have been "audited" for a long time regarding Shield Charge. If the issue had just gone unattended that would be one thing, but it received green light for a major change and wasn't "audited" at that point either.

    Is there a lack of communication at PS where the QA team doesn't have access to proper information on how the power designers have implemented powers to function? Something is amiss internally because this issue was easily preventable and is now either going to result in a massive nerf or at the very least another ill afforded time sink from an overworked power design team to rectify the issue.

    What the old saying? "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". Test stuff better before it goes live please and at the very least please don't authorize changes to powers without some form of audit performed on said power (this is honestly what is bugging me most). You're a busy guy and now look at the mess that has been created. We all want the game to succeed, but players have a right to be upset in this case. You strike me as being overly defensive about this issue, but regardless of where you want the blame to be placed it is not in the hands of the players. We have performed our due diligence with regard to Shield Charge and the same can not be said of PS. If you are getting upset at what players are saying now just wait until you go through with the necessary (and large) reduction to the power, it will be worse than ever because it was approved for a massive buff. And All in a short time frame relative to the evolution of other powers in this game.

    We all understand that this may not be your fault directly, but you are the one addressing the issue and afaik you oversee the powers team. You are welcome to throw an underling under the bus if you want, some managers do that, or you can accept the responsibility inherent with overseeing a team.

    I'm not interested in the forthcoming apology that has accompanied many of the power changes recently. I couldn't care less if you guys are remorseful about changing things. I personally think it is pretty tacky to attach emotion to the process and seems manufactured actually. I care about the specific breakdown in the process that allowed something like this to happen and making sure it is corrected so that future development is more efficient and productive. If the limited time card is going to be played constantly then I'm interested in making that finite resource stretch further.

    Agreed, but I'm standing behind you to avoid all the devpet shield charges that are sure to ensue...
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
    And you know what? They nerfed accuracy!
    Again?! Even if they did, the devs wouldn't know about it for at least a couple of issues...
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by DR_EVIL_NA View Post
    You are so right, me.
    Lets slow down and take a breath here. Lets talk up some positives about secondaries kids.
    I'm tired of constant worry of my beloved powersets being nerfed, so why not rather concentrate on what we love.
    If you love it (and laugh at other people for not loving it on the forums), the nerf will come... lol.

    I'd like to propose a new name for the power - Shield Tickle!

    And while we're reworking the power, if you're charging into a group of enemies and hitting them with your shield, shouldn't you take some self damage as well?
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by DrMike2000 View Post
    Based on the original conversation with Castle quoted here, there could be a toggle that provides a damage buff based on incoming damage.

    Not an inherent, as Castle says, but similar.

    That sounds like a great idea.

    But judging by current trends the set will look great but have mediocre to poor overall performance. People will play it when it first comes out, then it will disappear. I hope I'm completely wrong, because I'm a melee addict and dying for a new powerset, lol.