CriticalKat
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Pure win.Originally Posted by The_Masque
My money is on Barrier.
I dunno though, Barrier doesn't have PFF......... -
Quote:Gud.Originally Posted by Jaso
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Quote:No that was not what I was saying. I was saying we knew he was playing someone elses and that is fine for him to continue. As far as the other account I guess we need to discuss that.Originally Posted by Psoma
Okay then. I just wanted to make sure there was no problem with us adding his real global to our roster since it wasn't listed before.
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Quote:Best post of the thread.Originally Posted by Pixel
As a D6 player, the league has already taught me everything I need to know about high-end pvp: if you can't beat it, ban it, DQ it, or ragequit.
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Psoma,
Answering your p.m. here because for some reason I can't reply to the one you sent me. :-(
We have always known he was playing someone elses account. It is not an issue. People play other peoples accounts all the time and there is no fair way for us to police it, so we don't. -
Quote:Are you saying no is your vote or no to everything Peril said?Originally Posted by __Divine__
no
Peril did an actual motion get p.m.'d to you because I don't have one in my p.m. box? -
Quote:Obvious troll not obvious?Originally Posted by Zacharias_NA
WTF? There was a Gladiator ladder?
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Quote:What it is saying is that DR of enhancements is broken. I am pretty sure if we did more testing taunt is not the only victim.Originally Posted by LuxunS
Either way that statement says "Taunt res is broken". If someone has no taunt duration enhancements in the power against someone with assault/double assault its going to last the full duration. At minimum its going to last the full base duration regardless of the person's resistance or the taunter's slotting. Taunt has a base 10 second duration and recharge. Even unenhanced for duration, its easy to slot recharge to get the power below 5 seconds. That means that barring a person's evasion skill its possible to keep them at -150% range and stuck on a single target an entire match. I don't see how this is not broken. On open maps such as graveyard, eden, etc the player is effectively perma-caged.
I provided several points for why taunt teams are not good for the league and reasoning for why it should be limited, but I haven't seen any real legitimate reasons to allow such things.
- ATs shouldn't be limited and lineups shouldn't be banned.
Some broken powers have been banned. Taunt certainly falls in the broken category. How is perma -150% range and locked on a target less powerful then Corruptor LR? Besides no one is saying ban taunt, just limit the number of taunters per match to at least make things competitive.
- Don't QQ about lineups, if you can't counter them stop being a noob.
Really? There are obvious counters to the taunt lineup, one being stalkers which was demonstrated in thursdays matches. The points have already been made. Taunt lineups don't teach D6 players anything, they're not fun to play, and they don't encourage good pvp. Spending 10 minutes running around at -150% range while someone has me on auto follow and hits space bar is a waste of time. I could go to RWZ, target a pylon and hit 1,2,3 keys for 10 minutes and at least i'd be able to say I accomplished something.
I find it amazing that the people most against banning taunt teams are accusing people of not knowing how to run a counter. They're the ones hiding behind broken powers and a really weak lineup.
Remember D8 players, you get to play D8 matches and potentially help your weaker players in D6 matches. I'm only guaranteed to play 1 round a week. Playing against taunt teams IS NOT PVP. Its a stalling tactic.
I'm disgusted that things like this are allowed for D6 matches. By not limiting things like this the pvp community is encouraging fiteclub garbage. The i13 changes were 2 steps back, arena options to turn them off was one step forward. Allowing fiteclub lineups in the arena is a step back.
Hell if -Divine had lineups like these from the start, Eagle would still be leading that team.
Taunt lineups may not be fun for you to play against but it may be fun for the team playing them. In fact I can assure you while I find them boring myself several of my D6 really enjoy those matches. When I was on Divines vent yesterday most of his team said they had a good time. So if fun is an argument it is a moot point.
While I understand your disgust who is it that determines what is and is not pvp? Jump teams are not the only legitimate form of pvp. MM teams are not the only form of pvp. Player Vs. Player means exactly that. Now you can argue that maybe its not the "best" option for pvp or argue that its "weak" but your best and your weak is another persons good times.
While I can sympathise with you not finding those lineups fun I also can sympathise with those that like to play them. Whether the reason is 2muchpsi/em damage, IRFiteKlubber or IWannaAtleastTie they should have the option to play those lineups.
On a side note we did discuss taking away the tie option and make those replays. The reason behind ties to begin with was to keep fight nights short and simple. For those that were ever on test I am sure you remember how long match nights could get between the lineup switchouts and the tie breaker matches. I know of several times that a team finally ended out winning not because they were better but because it took so long the other team ended out having key players need to log out. -
Quote:Well Divines reasoning might have been out of like/dislike/revenge or whatever. My teams reasoning when we did it against U2bg didn't have anything to do with like/dislike etc.Originally Posted by Daknah
It is the new norm for when u2bg or us play other teams. If you dont like our d8 so be it dont take it out on our d6
Making lineups based on emotions is retarded. Its about having fun and for some teams, getting points. -
Quote:Yes it was. Though I am not happy that was said on the boards to possibly hurt that emps feelings if they figured out it was them, but yeah.Originally Posted by Daknah
Im just saying that it was not run because of lack of people having toons it was run because you had no faith in an emp.
d6ers are going to quit the league and probably pvp all together if the only matches they see are vs 4 taunters 2 emps. I know if i was a d6er id quit if that was the case.
Do we really think 4 taunters / 2 emps is going to be the norm? Yeah its been done a couple times total but there have been 50 times more matches that were way more competitive since this started. -
Quote:All very valid arguments. Again I was being dramatic. My personal feelings are that NOTHING should be limited if it is not broken, including stalkers. I however vote for my team based on what they feel.Originally Posted by LuxunS
Isn't there a 2 stalker limit for matches? If so thats not really a valid argument as there is a limit on stalkers, but not on taunters. If a team brings 2 stalkers to a D6 match, at any given time during the match they only have 4 visible players. If against a jump team, easier locks (from less targets) could even out the spike damage advantage. A fort is an appropriate counter for a stalker, able to virtually nullify them for an entire match. However a tank can do so to any target they desire. A fort is a rock to a stalkers scissor, a tank is not even a close comparison. PS. on a fort I'm arguably best equipped to counter a taunter also because double assault = double taunt resistance. I'd need some more testing to confirm this, but 99% sure taunt resistance doesn't work at all because the full duration lasts on me. In addition -range seems to stack or is bugged in some way. With 2 taunts on me I can't land a melee attack standing on top of someone.
TAs and doms are not comparable to tanks. TAs can be a boom offensively and offer excellent disruption. Same for doms, nice disruption and starting a spike with a long hold is excellent. However, unlike tanks, they suffer from defensive vulnerabilities. There is a big difference between a TA cycling targets for debuffs/a dom locking and holding before a spike and a tank choosing a single target and auto-following/auto-taunting. One requires skills used in most pvp encounters (locking, evading, spiking), the other requires picking a target, auto-following, control click on taunt, press space bar, and eat a snack.
Every match that I have played in D8 and D6 I've played my Fortunata. Its my toon that I like to play. I have a psi blaster, an ice/cold, a rad, a taunter, but I decided that I'd only play what I enjoyed. Even with glad jav/purple procs I'm 20% behind blaster un-procced damage. Every official I've played in we've won, even with that damage handicap.
Even with my limited organized pvp experience its painfully obvious that fast locks/tight spikes and good target calling > procs. Everyone pretty much uses the same blaster builds anyway (save -divine's team taking force mastery). Our D6 and D8 teams are similarly equipped and watching participating in practice sessions where we play against the D8 is no less painful then the ones your team experienced.
This is exactly the reason I spoke up. I could care less about D8 match rules, but for D6 how can this be considered legitimate. 4 taunt bots completely nullify the match. Notice in a majority of the official matches where tauntbots have been brought there have been no kills by the tauntbot team. It is an intentional draw tactic. With a rule in place 2 taunters would nullify 2 damage. The taunt team would still have the possibility to spike with 2 blasters + taunter kob/fossilize on a target. Scores would be lower as you desire for team morale, but there would still be a match going on.
This fightclub crap is exactly what everyone plays in the arena to avoid. I find it unbelievable that so many people are lolfiteclub or lolzonepvp, but are not discouraging the same crap in D6 matches.
Stop thinking about this from a team score perspective, and look at it from a "Is this in line with what our goals were for D6 matches" perspective. Honestly, are these the kinds of matches and tactics you want to expose and encourage among newer pvpers? I'm not a team captain but I implore you, consider proposing this rule change.
Edit: sorry for the overlap with Dex, went afk while writing and didn't see his post till afterward.
There are so many lineups and such a variety of possibilities of what could be played that is already limited based on all the nerfage called pvp2.0. I am not in favor of limiting that even more. While I can totally agree again that forcing ties is gai, my own team has done it so I can't exactly say we wouldn't. :-)
Perhaps our next major pvp league/ladder will go by best 2 out of 3 scores instead of point values with ties and totally eliminate the ability to force a tie. I would personally actually be more in favor for a motion to make ties replays than banning any powers. Not saying my team would agree, just speaking on my own opinion.
As far as this particular proposal if it does get made, again my vote is what my team wants regardless of mine or Bitters opinion, ever. -
Quote:The story hasn't changed. That is why we did the 3 taunters/3 emps match that particular night. We did so based on who we had to play and when we realized we wouldn't have enough damage based on who we had to play to kill anything we decided to just go all the way and try to get a tie atleast. That was the 3 taunters/3 emps lineup.
Kat I dont like how your story has change over time on the 3 emps 3 taunters vs u2bg. The orginal story was that you had to play an emp that was bad and therefore had to bring in 2 other emps to keep everyone alive, and with that you couldnt get a kill with 3 other people so you forced a tie. Now the story is that you have 4 people on your team that only have brutes and they all showed up and no one else did. This is not an attack at you but you cant play the ever calm victim of the engagement here o wait thats silit's phrase for -divine.
4 people that only have taunters doesn't = 3 taunters and is a reference to an entirely different match that wasn't even an official. So yeah.
I don't need to change storys or make excuses. My teams lineups are based on whatever they want to bring or think will work based on who is there at the time and who we are fighting. The reasons for each lineup vary. The end result is that any team should be able to play whatever works best for them in the situation they happen to be in at the time. -
Quote:Nice thought out post.Originally Posted by LuxunS
Since no D6 players speak up I'll throw in my 2 cents. I thought the whole idea behind the D6 teams was to allow players new to pvp to get into the scene and be coached by the older players. Point rewards are attached to the D6 matches so that the D8 teams put stock into getting their D6 players better. It seems however that the competitiveness has taken away from the original goal.
Quick Recap: This weeks matches for us was...
D8 - 8v2 find 2 stalkers, get a kill and win so that it isn't a draw.
D6 - 6v6 4 taunters and 2 emps, try to get a kill while everyone is taunted so that it isn't a draw.
The only match that was an actual fight was the first D6 match jump vs. jump
I'm not going to go back quoting everyone, but someone mentioned these were high-end matches and lineups are whatever the teams bring and shouldn't be limited. While I wouldn't argue about that for the D8 matches, does that hold true for the D6 ones?
What's the big deal about limiting D6 matches to 2 taunters? From what I've seen, no team has brought more then 2 taunters unless they're playing for a draw anyway. Playing for a draw is sound tactically for the overall league score, but keep that crap for the experienced players to deal with and let the newer D6 guys play. The initial worry about limiting taunters because D6 players might be a lot of fightclubbers and won't have more traditional characters is invalid. There isn't any team that "has" to run more then 2 taunters per match to get everyone rotated in for D6 matches.
Playing against an all taunter team is not fun, it is not an experience anyone can learn from, and it is not making new players any better (on either side). I thought the idea was to bring new players into pvp. Do you think that taunt/emp lineups are going to interest players, get them excited to pvp, or look forward to matches?
PS. I'm going to have to agree that taunt can be broken on the tech lab map. Against the storm team with the 2 stalkers I had a tank following me the whole time and didn't have a problem keeping the stalkers revealed.
PPS. -Divine touted how good his D6 team was, and then brought a taunt lineup with they lost 13-4 jump v jump. Our D6 even had a fort in that match, which puts them at a disadvantage. Nothing against -Divine or his team (I don't have any problems with anyone on that team and I think they do decent). Talking like you have faith in your team, then playing for ties is pretty <&%$#`@!> lame.
While I can feel your pain about fighting taunt lineups not being fun if that is what we base rules on then we need to ban a lot of powers. TA's are not fun. Ever. Not in the least bit. Being AS'd by stalkers totally sucks. That isn't competitive, if you don't have a fort there really is no counter to stalkers because every attack a squishy throws off roots them. (The arguement that stalkers with the way we submit lineups and can't counter lineups is a valid one) While we are at it we should ban all holds. Being held blows being there is no counter to that either.
I am being dramatic because obviously none of those suck as badly as a taunt lineup. I will tell you what does suck as bad as a taunt lineup though. 6 people that signed up for casual pvp in what was supposed to be a casual pvp league wanting to play their casual toons and getting ***** by 4-5 psi blasters. There is no counter to that either besides being hardcore and not casual and being really really good. The argument is equal to both sides. You guys don't want to face taunt bots and other teams don't want 20-2 rapage scores that are only partially based on skill and partially based on builds & glad jav procts. I remember a while back our D6 did a practice match against you guys (this match was how the original taunt lineup idea started) and your jump team farmed our d6 guys like 20-2. The sadness and low morale on vent after that was ridiculous. The next match we came back with a taunt lineup and you guys beat us but it was like 2-0. My guys were laughing and having a good time for that match.
Playing matches for ties is a dickmove, I will agree with that. It is a legal dickmove though. Teams are going to bring what they think is best to get them the most points. One teams 4psi/em blasters is another teams 4 tauntbots. -
Quote:You actually know who that is? I thought that was just some lulzy troll post. It is someone who actually pvp's and thinks they are that gud?Originally Posted by Psyrene
lol, you are definately not The Rad, and I am definately not dreaming. Now please run off to CO and cry moar because you continuously were farmed in RV.
riiiiiiiight, I am pretty positive I can and know of a couple other rad defenders and corruptors that I believe can also. -
Quote:If Mage's team wins I will get his stuff and mail it to him.Originally Posted by __Divine__
I hear that NcSoft wont mail overseas mage. =( Might have to get on the phone and flirt with one of the operators over there.
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Quote:You can break taunt on any map. While its annoying and while the team won't get to trow as many spikes and needs to stay level headed to time breaking the LOS and getting on target. It can be done. As terribad as I am I know how to LOS taunt so not sure why all the qq tbh.Originally Posted by Slax
We could break taunt on lab last night. n00bing it up and worrying about stalkers rather than staying offensive, that's a different issue.
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Quote:Where is a misquote? In fact where is any mention of who anyone was talking about? Furthermore I was on that vent with Mage for a long time including after you had left and my comment was not just based on what you said.......Originally Posted by AresSupreme
You mean the one where I told you if I didn't want to play I didn't have to? Ares = Captain regardless of how much or how little I do/choose to do. Divine can't sit me for three matches. He knows I'd rather not play half the time, and if I have to sign off the game just to satisfy your lovely rules I will do so. Don't misquote me. Also, the match was set for fairy to join, which never happened. Before that, we had 3 emps total, to the best of my knowledge we always put her in for at least one match if she was available.
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Volley Ball.
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Quote:Tech lab is not broken.Originally Posted by Borderline Boss
Tech lab I believe and as much as he is bad he is right, taunters r bad.
Dex is bad and dies a lot, vex is a drunk, and they both need jobs.
And I have the link you're looking for. http://www.ballyfitness.com/
Ty for the link but I already belong, they host my VB league.
BTW Hai thar Hot! What week is it that we fight your team again? -
Quote:Being an *** doesn't somehow make you right. You are the only person on your d8 team that cannot effectively break taunt. Dex, Vex etc have been bragging for weeks about how easy it is and how ineffective taunt bots really are. They learned how to do it, so can d6, so can you.Originally Posted by IcyKiri
1) There are maps that are bugged that you cant break taunt.
2) Taunt is autohit, cage is not.
3) A competent WASD'r (re: not you) can easily keep someone perma taunted to the point they cant break it for more then a few seconds.
4) Taunt does not properly supress like it should.
-Kiri
Being I am a noob which maps are bugged that you cannot break taunt? Is there a post saying taunt is supposed to suppress and it is not working as intended? If it is bugged it is a bannable power. Link please? -
Quote:Well while I understand that its frustrating going against lineups like that comparing it to cages isn't even close to a fair comparison. There is no evading a cage, no inspiration you can pop and no power you can add to your sets to give you any resistance to it. When you are caged you are just caged.Originally Posted by Mirage_Mage
The difference being teams werent brigning almost a full team of cagers
Taunt however is not that hard to break. Yeah new pvpr's might not know how to but that is part of the reason behind this whole league is to teach them things like that.
Just like they need to learn how to play on a standard jump team they also need to learn how to play and evade on every type of lineup. Taunters, Ta's, Colds, Therms....etc.
There are counter lineups to taunters that work. Proven by the matches. If anything I would say if you think a team might run a crazy lineup then just come up with lineups to counter anything possible.
If Dex actually does file for this motion we will vote with whatever our team votes. However the spirit of d6 was to be relaxed and let these new guys learn to pvp on whatever they have. Our team didn't go and pl our d6 team a bunch of psi/em''s. Lots of our guys have nothing but tanks, brutes and scrappers. That is reasonable to expect from new pvpr's. -
Quote:Well I have no opinion of course on that lineup they brought. However if a Captain would like to make a motion........Originally Posted by Mirage_Mage
Indeed it does Kat and while i was joking about taking it further then, i`m not so sure after last night.
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Quote:This sounds very similar to a vent conversation........Originally Posted by Fairy_Heal
I never stood anyone up I got tired of not getting played ;]
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Quote:Good thing our team is what votes on these issues or someone might just take you seriously. :-)Originally Posted by Emo_Bitter
Proposing that in D6 matches we limit the usage of Taunters to 2 to ensure the value of play is retained for those who D6 was designed and intended for. This has been an ongoing debate and will eventually be brought up. If this goes to a captain vote and I am not there I want to go on record that I VOTE YES TO LIMITING D6 TO 2 TAUNTERS.
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I am sleepy so someone please check my arithmeatic
SO MUCH DAM: 28250
Used 2 Be Good: 26600
Can I Get A Lock?: 19650
dUmb: 18850
Eternal P A I N: 152250
- Division 8:
- - Win: 1000 Points
- - Tie: 550 Points
- - Loss: 350 Points
- - Forfeit: 0 Points
- Division 6:
- - Win: 750 Points
- - Tie: 450 Points
- - Loss: 350 Points
- - Forfeit: 0 Points