CriticalKat
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So the fact that test people want a test ladder should be an excuse for withholding any other type of organized pvp in the entire game while it forms up to keep from possibly conflicting with a test ladder forming up?
I normally agree with everything you say just about but sorry Vex that sounds beyond off the wall.
Either way we have a monthly feature coming out across all the servers as soon as Peril writes up the format. Other than that I know it would be atleast a few weeks before anything else significant comes out. Hopefully people will actually get this off the ground fairly quick and then it would be up and going and future events wouldn't be an issue.
Quote:Originally Posted by Vexington
You should agree. Making Ladders/Leagues competing with eachother's going to be an issue. If it's your job to help PvP grow, why put more stress on what's actually looking like it could get a great start?
Other events would create interest, and pointing them towards the Ladder would be great. Just can't use an obligation to further PvP as an excuse to put strain on it's best looking option. Irony. -
Quote:Sorry, don't agree with you. The PVPEC put off events for over 3 months for the League. We did that because A. It was our event and we needed to focus on it and B. It was geared towards new pvp'rs which is our main goal. People that are already hooked on pvp and good at it don't really need our encouragement or promotion of it.Originally Posted by Silit
HP made a good point about "barcode" teams as well. We should be sure to include something like that.
As for running multiple major PvP venues at the same time: True, the TPvPL, IPvPL, FPvPL (the old pentad one) and a few others were run at the same time as the test ladder. However, the test ladder was already established and in no real danger of being completely overtaken by other events. We should wait until we have a stable ladder before we do anything else major.
My mini-ladder idea is just an idea and I haven't a clue on whether I have enough tolerance to jump right in to something like that again. However something major will be coming out and continue to come out because that is what we are here to do. Those that can or want to participate in both, will. Those who don't, won't. -
Quote:I agree Vex. Not arguing one bit. When I first decided I wanted to get on the ladder I went with a team from my home server. Did the "friend of a friend" angle. Once I left that team I didn't try to get on the #1 or 2 team I went for the #6 team at that time and worked my way up as my skill level improved.Originally Posted by Vexington
PvP, to a certain extent, was jumpstarted a bit, and now there's a chance to get involved. There's absolutely no reason for anyone who participated and enjoyed, at the the competitive aspect, the League to not join the Ladder. Obviously some won't be leading teams, and some will play more than others. Basically, when you're deciding what team you're trying to get on, you'll want to pick one that matches your skill, or barely exceeds it. Why? obviously, that equates to play-time, which equates to more practice, resulting in either your team growing, or jumping ship, and getting on another. Basically, it works itself out given time/effort.
I understand most of these guys can probably get a team and am really exagerating a bit to make a point. There are some that are not going to get a team. There are some that don't want to go to test. There are some that want something way more casual. Plus as we have all seen pvp is a revolving door that seems to have more people leaving than coming. The only way to have a continuous feed to replace the people that leave from ladder teams is to make sure something is organized and promoted that is geared towards new pvprs.
Downloading test, duping IO's, trying out for teams etc is a bit much to expect from a brand new pvp'r. People keep mentioning examples of the old days where it was done but guess what pvp isn't what it used to be. There are not people banging at doors begging to pvp. I was only on the ladder a little over a year before it crumbled and in that short time I seen that most teams were not recruiting and were full a good portion of the time. I seen TONS of people apply and not get on teams because they were too new, not known or not good enough. That was during a time when pvp was declining already.
We have to be honest and realistic. We as a Community in general are still at the point of having to beg people to give pvp a try. There is no mad dash begging for more pvp. There is no huge entourage of people begging to get the opportunity. -
Quote:Kk. Glad to hear that, Elf Stalker already expressed an interest and is looking for a team. :-)Originally Posted by Vexington
If I wanted to play with the *people* on my entire team, they would all play matches consistently. Obviously some more than others, but that's the way it goes. Going on skill alone, yeah, they'd all get in the matches, Kat.
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Quote:I know that is why the PVPEC was created. Being a leader of the PVPEC is why I am arguing the fact that we need something server side besides regular random events. Something more organized. Some of the ladder people are disagreeing and saying its a conflict.....Originally Posted by DitzyBlonde
This is why the PVPEC was created,Kat. It's the PVPEC's job to create live events for all of the players with an interest in pvp. It isn't the responsibility of the ladder people to hold hands and indoctrine players. It is their(ladder guys//gals) job to provide a standard of example for great team play.It's the pvpec's job to provide events for novices and those that don't make the cut on a ladder team.At the same time the Pvpec should do blatant advertising about when ladder matches and practices will occur.That allows players with a taste to go observe and begin to understand what's needed to be on a ladder team.
I don't think the answer here for the ladder stuff is an open draft or splitting teams. The answer is letting the Ladder Captains run as they see fit ( with the teams they choose). Then the PVPEC steps up with more server events for people wanting to get their feet wet. In addition, it's alot easier to do events on ONE server. Barrage Freedom with events from lvl 4's to even perhaps a 1 v1 melee ladder. Add a zone war. There are many things that can be done to entice new pvp or semi interesteds without messing up the ladder.
I will happily volunteer time to doing server things for new pvp players on Freedom and know a few others willing to do the same.Beat ya to that whole" If you don't like it than volunteer !!" response.
In short, the Pvpec shouldn't be involved in the ladder at all. Theres plenty more stuff PVPEC could be doing to facilitate pvp.Guys and gals on the ladder are already participating in pvp as established groups.
disclaimer:^^ that's imho.
The PVPEC will not be involved in the ladder at all, besides some reps that might join or run teams. The ladder already knows how to run itself, there is not need for the PVPEC to do any work there. -
Quote:Some of what you said I agree with. Let me pose a question for you then. Anyone can join this ladder we are speaking about true enough. A new pvp'r or crappy pvp'r should not be running a team (proof = me just running CIGAL). Ok so look at your POWT, the entire team throughout the season. Now honestly ask yourself how many of them you would let join your ladder team. Maybe you are a nice guy and would let them all (which I doubt). How much play time would they get?Originally Posted by Vexington
Kat, what I think you're missing is the point/fact that anyone could join *this* Ladder and still compete in fun, competitive matches. Even if one or two teams initially are doing better than the others, there will be other teams of relative skill for the other lower-end teams to practice against.
Running two League/Ladders seems like it'd split the PvP community, rather than focus it into something more broad. Kickballs, and random Tourneys could still be regularly held on Test or Live servers with no conflict, or at least little.
As far as there never being conflicting practice/match times, I think it could easily be more complicated than you seemed to let on. It'd be easy if the Leader of one team was making sure a single other player or players on ONE other team currently involved in a separate Ladder didn't have an issue, but if people are more spread out, it'd be a mess to find out who's doing what, when, etc.
I'm in favor of the more random events with regularly scheduled kickballs. Again, any team can join the potential Ladder, so there's no need. If the only fear is of losing, PvP isn't for you, because even in a mini-Ladder, there are teams that will be dominant, and one team will be the worst. No getting around it.
The whole point of the retarded rules we had in the League was to get new people introduced in to pvp to build the community up. Each team may have a couple of those people that got good enough in the past 3 months to make it on a test team. That still leaves a huge percent of people that didn't. We (PVPEC and people that took their time out to try to teach new people) totally wasted our time and effort if we don't continue to not only provide organized pvp for those people but also for other new people coming in to the game or suddenly showing some interest in pvp. -
Quote:So a person brand new to pvp or still fairly new to pvp should make their own organized test team? Sounds like a recipe for pvp IO farming to me. Thats like telling a chihuahua if they want some bootie they should climb up on a step ladder and attempt to screw the rotweiller.Originally Posted by ConFlict
If they are that interested they can make their own teams.
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Quote:We have atleast 5 new pvprs on our team wanting more pvp so counting all the other teams I would tend to believe the numbers are much higher than that. I will however agree that retention definitely needs to be a top priority goal. Sadly though I don't think people leaving is anything that events are going to stop. As long as the pvp in this game is subpar and the pvpr's feel neglected or screwed by the devs its going to be like that. Factor in the numbers of people that simply just get bored and that is a huge equation of people leaving constantly. That is going to happen no matter what kind of events get ran or not ran.Originally Posted by iLostCountBarrier
i wish we still had buffing (not healing) positions. they're a good place for new people to start. i remember the first time i ever played in a ladder team practice.. it was against renegades and i'm pretty sure i threw out like 2 cages all match (but kept everyone buffed with clarity)... positions like that where evasion is everything and your progress isn't strictly binary (as an emp your target lives or dies, that's it) are what allowed a lot of people to learn how to get their **** together...
often, i hate this game.
also, the focus needs to be shifted at this point; anyone notice what this last league attempt did? yeah, we got like 5 new players that show up for pvp now... but like half of the established guys have quit or plan on quitting. retention needs to be the goal, introduction is overrated. -
Quote:I disagree. During the test ladder there was ALWAYS small server events going on simutaneously. Tvplp or whatever it was called also ran simutaneously. There should be no conflict being matches are scheduled rather than having to be weekly. Only an idiot would schedule a match for both at the same time if they know they have players participating in both.Originally Posted by vindizzLe
Running a small league on live alongside a test ladder is a bad idea. The intention isn't to split the focus, but rather to draw a majority to one area in order to strengthen it. As opposed to running a seperate league/ladder on live, you could opt instead to set aside a day every week where we run kickballs starting a certain time until there aren't enough players to continue on.
I understand that people try (and normally succeed) to get KBs going nightly, but back in the day, Friday night kickballs on test always garnered interest from not only the high end competitive players, but newer players as well. Posting on the boards about it regularly and getting a larger portion of players to try and make it on a set night isn't a bad idea, and achieves a similar goal that a separate league on live does.
On the note of high end teams allowing players to warm the bench more often, I can speak more from experience here than you can considering you're terrible and don't have much test league experience, but the best of 3 match option allows teams to rotate in non-starters so that they have a chance to prove themselves as well. This goes back to the issue of players practicing and proving that they deserve to start for a team. If we're running another league on live to accommodate "bench-warmers", that may eventually cause a division between players trying to run a test league successfully, and those who would rather stay on live simply because they don't have to try in order to start for their teams.
As far as it causing a division between players trying to run a test league successfully and those that would prefer to stay on live....ummm shouldn't pvp be promoted for everyone, not just the highend test leaguers? I realize that may be the only pvp that you personally care about but the world doesn't revolve around you and there are others that are not of your calibur that want organized pvp as well.
The whole bench warmers get cycled in to best 2 out of 3 rounds is bull and you know it. Every single test team I was on rarely even let the benchwarmers play practice matches against other teams more less do an official match against other teams. Being all the teams I was on you probably would label as ****** I am sure the top notch team (s) you were on surely didn't let crappy people start just to be nice. On the occassion that a subpar player was allowed in an official it was ONE match and ONLY if it was against a team they were confidant they could beat even with carrying someone subpar. That is the way it should be. I agree 100% people should have to take their licks and earn their way up. However there still needs to be an avenue for regular, crappy, noobs players to have organized pvp, regardless.
I can think of atleast 30 players from the current league that want to continue organized pvp that will never get on any of the teams so far that are showing interest. There are probably twice that many that expressed interest in joining the league that couldn't mid season that might join the next great event planned if they could get a team. They also would never be picked for any of the teams showing interest in a ladder. Sorry but to me those people deserve organized pvp just as much as the ladder people do. -
Quote:Wasn't even trying to insinuate it's crumbling had anything to do with people refusing to start new teams. Was simply stating that when it fell down to only 5-6 teams it became extremely boring and less and less matches were occuring. I think now with even less people that result would come even quicker.Originally Posted by macskull
The pre-I13 ladder fizzling out had less to do with people refusing to start new teams than it did with the I12 closed beta being retardedly long and many PvPers not getting in.
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Maybe the solution is pretty simple.
Have a test ladder or have it on Freedom, really the arguments for both are pretty equal. Those teams just like the old ladder with loli13 rules. If its just 4-6 teams then so be it. With it being matches scheduled between Captains and not having to play a certain number of matches a week people in general should have time for more than one source of pvp.
Second source of pvp is a mini league or ladder as suggested by me in the other thread. Smaller teams, more teams, thus more opportunity for new pvprs and subpar pvprs to get a spot.
Lets be honest here, none of the experienced highend teams are going to let a lot of people even warm their benches more less actually get match time. A mini-league that is not a draft but actual mini teams can be a revolving continuous door to feed the higher end ladder.
This would solve both problems. Leave a door open for new people. Leave a door open for people wanting a more casual pvp. Help feed a ladder to grow more. Even give the highend all I wanna do is pvp all the time people even more pvp to occupy their time. With it being a mini ladder rather than a mini league its a little less time constraining being matches are scheduled rather than having to be weekly. -
I notice the old test ladder thread is no longer stickied with the rules. My searchfu seems to be broken, anyone have it by chance?
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Quote:So here is a question. Lets just say for argument sake that the top 2 teams did split up. Say you ran one, Dex ran one, Vinnie ran one and Silit ran one. Say you each took 1/2 of your current team and then filled the rest of the team with noobs. Are you going to tell me that the team you ran couldn't competitively compete with the team Silit ran? Or the team Dex ran?Originally Posted by Vexington
Splitting up teams is a stupid idea. No matter how you distribute people, there will be 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place. If they're better, they deserve to be. You seem to have some reservations towards this Ladder unless you can remove the fun from some other pre-existing teams.
That's fairly ignorant. Not everyone can be the best at any certain point in time, and there may be teams you generally always lose to. But there will also be some you beat, and others you trade wins with. Just the nature of anything competitive. We don't get paid to be here. This is for fun. No one's being split up.
Essentially if you said that you would be saying the other guys are better than you, which is far from the truth. It really isn't the teams that are the issue, its the leaders. You have already proven you can teach noobs, look at your current d6 team. Splitting up would just mean more noobs get the experience of being lead by strong pvpr's.
Should you feel obligated to do so? Naw. However don't make it sound like it wouldn't work or that it would only make a bunch of mediocre teams because that is far from the truth. It all narrows down to the people on the top teams want to either A. play with who they want to. or B. play with people they know they can count on to win. You guys are not wrong for that but its also not the option that would help the community grow the most either.
Look at the League. Why did so many new pvpr's learn so much? Why did the community grow so much? Because the rules forced it to be so. Eventhough the Community grew by say 20% it is still 80% less than it was when the ladder crumbled. When the ladder crumbled it was already becoming stagment with teams constantly dropping out before I13 even hit. Now we have half as many players and half as many team possibilities. IMHO 8v8 ladder with no team size cap and none of the teams willing to split up to run other teams isn't going to last very long before it becomes stagment as well.
None of that changes that people should be able to play with who they want and really there is no obligation to do otherwise. That doesn't change the fact that it would help. :-) -
Quote:Wow.Originally Posted by Griefer_Dirge
I joined Kat's team originally with The League under the premise that we would be helping new pvpers. I personally have had no problem with being on lower skilled teams, but apparently I keep getting kicked off them and picked up by Vince, so as fate goes I guess.
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Quote:Our team didn't really have any internal drama either. The people that were good to decent pvpr's just got frustrated and stopped coming because some others weren't listening or getting any better. Wasn't drama, just no shows.Originally Posted by Silit
I'd like to point out once again that our team was the only one with no internal drama.
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I of course haven't asked anyone on CIGAL because I haven't been on yet. If how many showed up the past few weeks is any sign of how many are interested in continuing I would say it's not looking good.
I personally am not interested in leading a team. I am not good enough that I should remotely be trying to teach others. Our team started supposedly to be more about having fun and not worrying about winning so much and to really just have a team some less experienced people could join being all the other teams filled up so quick. It didn't take long before competiveness became more important than learning or fun.
I doubt the people that quit because they got frustrated at not winning are gonna come back. The last 3 weeks of matches we faught short handed and almost entirely d6 players. I will see if any of the team are interested I suppose or they could even express their own interest here.
As an individual I am always up for more organized pvp. If CIGAL doesn't continue I am sure someone will feel sorry enough to let me warm their bench I guess. -
Quote:About?Originally Posted by vindizzLe
Kat's mad.
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Quote:Fixt.Originally Posted by K l e s k
First of all i'd like to give props to my main man Spiner, we had a hell of a season and couldn't have done it without each other.
Second to Vinnie for his dedication, being biggest BOSS in CoH, his mad target calling skills, and smacking us around when we were doing sh**ty.
Best Emp: Spiner, Klesk
Best D6 Emp: Feo (man has skills)
Best Blaster: Silit, March, h0j, Z, Reaver (you saved us in playoffs.. thanks)
Best Leader: Vinnie, Silit, Dex
Best Leader who doesn't lead his team: Emo Bitter
Best Target caller: Vincent
Best Brute: Z, h0j
Best Tank: Kat
Best Annoying POS: Peril
Biggest Lion in CoH: Vert
Most Emo: Vert
Best Stalker: Vert (who doesn't have sharks)
Best lol Stalker: Kat
Best Improved D6 player: Seethe
Best use of CAPS LOCK: Treyy (JD)
Best MW2 Player: Justin
Best Hippie: Sneaky
Best Team who can't quit out of a match correctly: CIGAL (remember don't hit "quit to desktop next time")
Best Team who tries to tie with stalkers when we have a fort on our team: CIGAL
Best Team who can't run a jump team so they run garbage teams instead: CIGAL
Fastest Twinkie eaters in the league: CIGAL
Best team who doesn't like to be called "Fat": CIGAL
Being the only team to beat U2bg's D8 team that Silit couldn't pull a dooch DQ on: CIGAL
Team who's D8 managed to place 3rd eventhough they can't run a jump team and Kat is fat: CIGAL
Player who I have the biggest hardon for eventhough she is fat: Kat
Special thanks to Kat and Peril for keeping this league together... they took a lot of crap and deserve T-shirts! Don't be stingy NCsoft... hook em up! (or we can sew a couple of ours together for Kat...)
Special Special thanks to SMD for being such a worthy opponent... you guys put a lot of time and effort into this league and definitely deserve a shout out.
To everyone else..
Thank you to everyone who played with us and against us, without each and everyone one of you this league and game would be nothing. I'm going to quote myself from another thread because i'm lazy :
"One of the best parts of the previous league was how we were almost forced to reach out and discover new PvP talent. I know i've met a lot of cool people to team up with in the arena that I never knew previously. Since NCsoft isn't doing S**t to help the PvP in this game it's up to us to keep it alive and the only way to do that is to keep bringing new people into it."
For me this pretty much sums it up... New guys... you rock, you keep this game interesting and I hope we start to see some new teams forming up for the next league/ladder or whatever happens. -
Quote:That would have been some clutch emping if it wasn't against 2 taunters, 2 emps and 2 blasters. We couldn't even kill elf stalker.....Originally Posted by vindizzLe
Haunt + Savvy
Behind SMD.
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Quote:Yeah we heard about that one pretty much daily.Originally Posted by Smilin_Joe
Rei nearly s***ing a brick because Bleak had flame mastery on his blaster
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Quote:No wai.Originally Posted by __Divine__
Here it goes....
Instead of Jimmay raging at me I predict that Vex/Dex should rage at you for running the downie team. Pretty sure those points coulda made a difference. :-) -
Quote:Thats funny being he said you asked him to delete the thread.Originally Posted by B_Witched
Lmfao at catching kat in a lie about keenon and have her rage so hard peril had to type for her then her asking mod 8 to delete the thread
Telling you that you might want to consider changing it so some doochbag team (*cough* Silit) wouldn't try to call a DQ on you being the rule was a bit vague ='Quote:Originally Posted by __Divine__
-Kat calling us out at one of the first practices against her for breaking the "bar code rule" because 2 of our blasters had psy in the name..
s calling you out? Okkkkk. -
Quote:Paragon Studios has been most gracious in offering the following prizes to the winning team!Originally Posted by Daknah
Grats on winning the league guys.
- City of Heroes/City of Villains T-Shirt
- In-Game Gold Title
- Choice of Archetype Pin
- Blinking "Awesome" Button
The prizes that will be mailed will go to the mailing address associated with each persons global. I need an updated global list (1 global only per player) of the entire team p.m.'d to me by a Captain please. No you cannot get it mailed to some other address. So make sure that your account info is current so your prizes actually find you. The sooner I get the p.m. the sooner prizes will go out. If you do not live in the United States NC will not mail you prizes. I will be happy to get your prizes for you and mail them to you if you want to provide me with your info. Please P.m. me any questions. -
A few really memorable moments come to mind.
The clutch phase A.S. on lab map.
Barrier rageing at me and quitting match when I wouldn't let the team cheat.
Being the only team to beat U2bg's D8 team that Silit couldn't pull a dooch DQ on. <3 Z :-)
Farming Divine so many times in a match we had to hover over his spawn spot waiting for him to be effectable.
Getting a clutch kill against Psoma when she was lagging ftw.
Listening to Hell rage about getting perma taunted by a brute that one of our taunters was supposed to be taunting.
The 1000 HP flying rad :-(
Learning how to get my A.S. on with Vex and Dex night after night in RV. :-) Tricking people in to dueling in the train station to only triple AS them instead. Tricking random zoners in to doing matches against us. :-)
Listening to Burns rage because he couldn't kill me on my emp in a 1v1 on ATLAS.
LMMFAO while Miss raged about EVERYTHING.
I think my team had the biggest percentage of raging. En3my, Oz, Barrier, Rei and the most epic rage was when quiet and easy going Filipino Super Hero raged for like 10 minutes straight and the entire team STFU and listened. One of the most awkward moments of the season IMHO.
Too bad we lost so many people during the second half of the season. It was really fun to start with.
Ty to everyone who participated. Especially want to thank all the new pvpr's that stuck it out even through all the drama. -
Quote:I am not calling you out. I stated my opinion. I teamed with you. I have been attacked by you. I have watched you scoot around in zone on one toon. I didn't say you are a bad pvpr because honestly I don't know. What I do know is on that one particular toon you could be WAY better than you currently are with a better build. I see a lot of big ego's on the boards. The few big ego's I see on this thread though I either don't know anything about or if I do know them then I know them to be decent pvp'rs using adequate builds to do it. I also haven't seen any other actual WRONG numbers or inacurate information being given out by others so there is no one else for me to "call out" as you put it.Originally Posted by Dahjee
Really? You get that from me and no one else here? I don't recall saying I'm the best or great or bad or better... Hmmm others do but you won't call them out will you? I don't advise others to do what I do. I just say what I do and people love to hate me for saying so it seems. Hell, some peeps here would think that tping/flying toons are the only toons I have but whatever. Feel what you feel and enjoy your stay on the bandwagon.