Cognito

Personally, i look at the debuff effects (or secondary effects) of the blasts, which are considerable for defenders.

Rad/Rad is sub-par for me. It has some nifty attacks, like cosmic burst, but you really (in general) dont need extra -def debuffage when you play radiation primary - everytone should be hitting most of the time anyway. (The point about choking cloud/irradiate is true tho).

Sonic - excellent damage boosting by further -res.
Dark - further protection from damage by more -acc.
Elec - different effect altogether, a useful end drain (two short circuits will sap most things), and the small end recovery (bigger for defenders) allows you to blast without so much end worries (which can be buig for rad)

For PVP id say mind/nrgy. Good variety of unresisted single target attacks. power boost in secondary. Stuns in secondary.

But it depends how you play. /Psi for instance is very good at getting your domination up fast (with psinoic dart) IMO. The trick is surviving to get your domination bar full!

Given the (IMO) rather silly system of triangles for AV's, I doubt a longer hold will be the buff for dominators, as Posi suggests its a buff for them in the Recluse Strike Force.

Might be wrong here of course.

My suspicion is that the devs have always gone by the dichotomy of sub par/uber dominators depending on when domination was up. I know people sort of like it, but it seems to me most people dont want the dichotomy to great. However, thats what the dev's want it seems.

The main problem/concern seems to be dominators particular uselessness against Arch Villians. They really really underpeform.

Putting these together as wild speculation... I wonder if dominators will be able to treat Arch Villians as "triangle down" ALL the time, if domination is up ?. This would really make them useful, and would still avoid the "perma-hold" problem that occured pre-triangle system.

Nice to see Fly/Mer'de and new Nightsparrow tonight.

Sorry for cutting out later that evening. As I explained, I just got a call that a friend died that evening. Im still feeling pretty shocked and numb about it. Much as I love the Militia, even after the phone calls, I didnt really have the heart to Roleplay later that evening.

No awakens for him

Anyway, hope to see you next week.

Bear in mind that defender "Blasts" are far from just damage. Defenders have a very good multiplier for secondary effects.

Getting you accuracy debuffed from several dark blasts is far from pleasant, or getting end drained by elec can be annoying to say the least.

I think the high values of secondary effects from defender blasts are often discounted, everyone being hypnotised by the solid reality of red numbers.

To be honest, in a RP team a little of powerset mis-matching can be fun...

Mr. Rad the Rad Defender stomps feet and tries to slap Mr. Blastsy the Energy Blaster after scattering all the nicely clustered enemies 'round Mr. Toughice the Ice tanker...

etc etc

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Considerably is too harsh of a word, the power drop off isn't that bad.

To be fair, for example Empathy, many Defender sets would be better as controller secondaries as Power Boost is up so much more than Power Build Up.

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I dont know the exact figues... but I estimate 'Trollers are 2/3 the value of defenders. 80% effectiveness from being a secondary and aprox 80% effectiveness of a defender in terms of AT multiplier (judging from the leadership pool anyway).

As you say, no a huge difference, but certainly very significant. Certainly significant enough to say that defenders ara a cut above trollers in this regard.

Anyways, I was posting this as a reply to the opinion that why bother with a defender when a troller does what a fender does AND controls. They do, of course, do what a defender does, its just that do it significantly worse!

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I was wondering how defenders fit into PvP in general and specifically as I have a rad/elec defender.

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Nothing wrong with defenders in pvp. Problem is with sets like rad that a controller could easily do the job well and add a bit more with holds/soft control and what have you not.

You should definately take your defender into pvp. Arena/zone or base. Just remember not to stand still if you're in the zones (unless you're with friends )

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All defender primaries are considerably more powerful than their controller secondaries due to a) it bieng a primary and b) Defender AT having bigger effects on buffs/debuffs.

So controllers never do the job as well as defenders in this regard.

I honestly think Granite is rather rubbish in PvP, even when backed with a /kin or two.

Sure, the /kin will speed up the Granite. But the /kin will speed up the other tanks too.

If you consider damage output, Granite's will always be lowest of the low.

If you consider Granite as a PvP team, and that there job is to lockdown by aggro grabbing - no matter how fast a Granite moves/taunts/punchvokes with /kin, All the other tanks will do it masively better with /kin. All Granite does is be able to take massive quantities of damage. As people have said, an Ice tank with Hibernate is a huge job to take down, and will be hugely better at grabbing aggro.

And if you paired with a kin/elec defender, I would have thought the extra end drain from energy absorbtion is a rather nice synergy, no?

PvP? Id say an Ice/EM or Ice/SS wins. Boring, predictable, and dull, but hey ho.

Fire/SS or Fire/EM is a good skranker build, Id guess.

My level 50 rad/elec is PvE / team built, but I have had some test server fun with a PvP / solo modified build...

As to the comment about Rad defenders not being in useful as Rad trollers - bear in mind that Defenders will have considerably more powerful debuffs (aprox 150% i estimate), since it is a) their primary and b) they have a greater multiplier for debuffs than trollers. So I dont entirely by this argument.


Solo, Rad is probably your set of choice, as it one of the offenders set of choice (/dark is another popular, and TA not bad).

My advice for Rad/Elec in PvP

Acrobatics is a must.
AM as soon as possible. You live by your debuff toggles. Getting held means downtime on your toggles.
LR / RI / EF are, unsuprisingly, musts.
Radiant Aura is more useful in PvP than PvE, suprisingly.
Most of the other set is missible, although Choking Cloud can be fun vs stalkers, and the mighty hold and End effects of EMP can be amusing.

From electric:

First two tier attacks vital for an effective attack chain (bear in mind your worst problem is do to enough damage).
Telsa Cage is a must.
Short Circuit not as good as PvE, although still attractive for your End draining tactics.
Voltiac Sentinel is very good. Keeps on shining when you are held.
The rest is missible. Aim and Snipe has its obvious attractions, especially when you are holding an enemy.
Under no circumstances take the nova - out of end = out of debuffs = dead meat.


PvPing as a defender is a real challenge, but Rad/Elec is one of the least bad PvP'ers from a solo perspective. You will certainly give Regen scrappers a heap of trouble with your slows and -regen.


Team wise, its not bad by any means, but id go with a buff set in a team.

Dont like it in PvE because it makes the tank safe, and the rest of the team, suddenly used to the awesome aggro grabbing power of the ice tank, suddenly have to shift into "oh my gosh! enemies are attacking me!" mode... which can often lead to complete tactical disintegration

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Having said that, you will be unlikely to die I suppose. The only way of effectively destroying a granite is end drain, which they have no defence against, which leads to a detoggle.

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Unless they are also running Rooted.

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DOes rooted protect vs end drain?

My mistakes... Stone tanks can fight...

But Granite will basically reduce your mobility, recharge, and damage so much that you cant fight for tofee. You will certainly only get into melee range if your opponent wants to, and even then, its unlikely you will be able to kill anything more than a squishy squishy.

Having said that, you will be unlikely to die I suppose. The only way of effectively destroying a granite is end drain, which they have no defence against, which leads to a detoggle.

I played an Ice/Ice tank in the RV event on training. Although I was not a huge hitter, I was practically unkillable. Ice primary + Ice Slick + Aid self .... I only got taken down by 2+ dominators laying on thick and fast mezzing, combined with a few AS. I once had nine villians around me who simply gave up trying to take me down...

Aid self, Aid self, Hoarfrost, Aid self, Aid self...

Oh, finally got me into the red have you?

Hibernate...

Back to square one folks...

Aid self, Aid self, Hibernate... and so on.



I think the thing is, that Ice level 9 power is rather underpowered in PvE, but is simply the best level 9 Tank power in PvP. Granite is frankly useless... at best it lets you draw, but Granite tanks cant fight for toffee. Unstoppable is pretty rubbish - you just wait for it to drop. Rise of the Pheonix is ok... but Hibernate is just silly useful. The amount of effort it takes to take down an ice tank is ridiculous, and then they hit hibernate - and you have to start right back from square one and... get this... manage to take them down before Hibernate recharges again! (which isnt to shabby with 3xSO in it).

To be honest, this is precisely why I dont like roleplaying members of the opposite sex (ie female)... it feels awkward. I wouldnt mind roleplaying a female if I was with roleplayers (although it does stretch one a bit), but its this peculariaty you describe (very accurately) that puts me off.

Its a shame really, since I have a few female toons with great (I think) concepts that I would like to do some light-RP with. For some reason, some concepts for me only fit females, some with males for historical/cultural reasons

YOu may be interested in "The Militia" a gang of roleplayers who meet up every Thursday evening for RP and In character missioning. Good fun. Let me know if interested.

In PvE Teams, AoE is the king. Anyone telling you their build is godly is just saying they like their build. AoE in teams is unequivical.

Therefore for primary sets:

Spines > Claws/Bs/Katana > Dark > Martial Arts

Secondary

Pffft.. Regen effects ONLY you. Its a good set, no doubt, but since it effects only you, has no AoE its not good in big teams. Super Reflexes is almost as bad, but you could say that Quickness power would improve your AoE primaries, so it has the slight edge.

Invun has a power that increases your accuracy and defence in proportion to amount of nearby mobs, so probably has the edge over Super Reflexes.

Dark wins clearly in secondaries. AoE effects all over the place.


Therefore, for big teams, you cant beat Spines/Dark. If you dont like spines, id go for broadsword, katana or claws. If you dont like Dark id go for invun but not much in it.

Sorry to all you Ma/Regen scrappers out their. You good at PvP and solo, but thats balancing for ya

Probably going to be late to very late tonight guys... thats RL for you

Or Forcefield, surely? (Dispersion bubble?)

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Essentials as decided are: Gloss Tights, Top Stripes 1, Bottoms Stripes 3 and the SG emblem 'M'.

Colours are based on the colour of your AT-icon.

I'm afraid I'll be away for a long long time. Will see you guys early next year at best.

It's been ace, see you soon.

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Bejezuz! Why so long?

DM is probably the most "Defensive" melee sets, with ToF and accuracy debuffs. So what do you expect, equal damage to the rest of the sets? . Bear in mind it also does negative damage which is less commonly resisted than S/L.

I think the thing with DM is it requires a slightly different playstyle to other brutes. To my mind, it works not by massive big hitters, but by facsilitating full fury more than any other sets. Its self heal, control, and debuffs all allow you to carry on pummeling away and getting attacked (not hit) allowing you to reach levels of fury better than any other brute, IMO.

If you have a corruptor who can replenish your end and HP, then DM isnt going to shine... but otherwise, its good.

It plays differently thats all - its not "gimped". I play mine by having ultra rapid cycling low attacks (NOT shadow maul) with just accuracy, end reducer, and recharge enhancers. By doing this you can quickly lay on the debuffs and build fury.

Excellent STuff!

Ill get FC kitted out!

Okey dokey lets give MOnday a miss then!

Any chance of an alternative date?

Guys, May I suggest a cozzie compitition for Militia?

Plan: Make an alt on Zukruft server - with the militia costume, go to Atlas, and meet under the normal statue. We then decide on look.

I suggest Monday at 8pm for the meet-up?


A few suggestions:

1. Make the costume distinctive but unfussy. DIstinctive because we want to look the same, Unfussy because we can add little trills and frills according to our background (e.g. Portent may want a tech belt and shoulder straps, Dragonfly may want Gladiator shoulder armour, whilst Banshee might want nothing on top).

2. As far as colour goes... Id suggest a primary colour like black... and the secondary colour according to our archtype (like the icons)

Tanks - Grey
Scrappers - Gold
Blasters - Red
Defenders - Blue
Controllers - Purple

This would allow us to recognise each other a bit easier in combat - or at least recognise that the Grey goes in first and that purple surrounded by enemies needs some attention!

Im thinking "Star Trek" (And no im not a trekkie), but I understand that the basic cozzie and colour is the same, but there is a different secondary colour according to position?

I have drafted up an alt on Zukruft with this in mind.


Please toss in your thoughts. Its time we got the costume up and running!

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Bit cheeky but I can't really bare the thought of reading all this. was the conclusion yes or no?

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Its not black and white... thats about the only conclusion you can come to!

General concensus is that not taking taunt will make you less able to hold aggro.

Possible majority is that taking an attack instead of taunt (as opposed to taking a defence instead of taunt) makes you more "Skrankerish" than "Tankish".