Cognito

Sorry, to clarify...

Relative to any other AT, scrappers are easiest to solo (Possible exceptions like a super AoE heavy SPines/Dark wouldn't be as easy as a single target specialist like Ice/Energy).

So Scrappers, to my mind, are always nearer the solo-freindly end of the spectrum (and, no matter what anyway says, this comes at a small price.. being generally slightly sub-par in teams).

However, /DA is, IMHO the most "Team freindly" scrapper secondary, because it has a shed load more AoE effects.

For PvE, mathematically, AoE is far superior to single target effects (at least in big teams - small teams its about the samae, and solo/duo they loose out to single target effects). The only exception being AV's (where single target effects are better, although AoE buffs are still far superior to single target buffs).

So im only realy comparing scrapper secondary to scrapper secondary. A BS/DA Scrapper is going to be easy to solo (looking at all AT and powersets), but less easy to solo than a MA/Regen for instance (the king of single target effects). However, it will be better in a big team (and thus big spawns) than a MA/Regen.

For my 2influence, it depends on where you lie on the solo <-----> team spectrum.

/Regen is unequivically the best for solo'ing. No AoE whatsoever. Your "damage mitigation" is a flat rate of fast HP recovery, meaning that you mitigate damage at the same rate no matter how much attacks are flying your way. This makes it very good for solo.

/SR is the next best for solo. Again, no AoE attacks, although Quickness provides a bonus to all your otherpowers (some of which may be AoE). Damage mitigation is a %age of incoming attacks, which means it effectively mitigates more damage the more attacks you are receiving (unlike the flat rate of regen).

/Invun is very similar to /SR, except that you get a scaling defence/to hit buff with Invunerability. The more enemies near you, the tougher you become. This means the bigger the spawn, the better. So, it is a little worse for soloing, a little better for groups.

/Dark is the Team scrapper's choice. AoE damage, AoE regeneration, AoE fear/accuracy debuff, AoE disorientate. Conzequently, it is probably the hardest to solo.


Thats my thoughts anyway. If anyone tells you a set is good for teaming and good for soloing, they are lying. You can, however, be OK at both.

This applies to PvE only, by the way. In PvP AoE are largely useless except perhaps vs Masterminds.

Depends what you want this toon to do, if you ask me.

Xanthus, I thought Sonic Siphon didn't stack (doesn't seem to)? If so, not much point in recharge enhancements. And it does need at least 1 acc.

Disruption Field I would disagree with. Its a fantastic power, providing you have a good tank. Slap this on a tank and the team will absolutely rock. Personally, its my second fave power in the set after dispersion field. To my mind the thing that makes sonic defence stand out is its -res debuff (in my opinion the most valuable debuff in the game). And Sonic defending gives you TWO -res debuffs (I think the best set in the game for -res, although I guess Trick Archery is the next best). I would STRONGLY advise getting this power (it only needs 2 or 3 slots - end reducers, as well), but use it only with a tank, or when teaming with 6 fire blasters

/Poison is all or mostly single target effects. Marvellous for soloing, marvellous for AV's, and unmarvellous for big teams.

And yeah, it must be said /TA is VERY end light. I'm a stamina-less mastermind and I have no end worries spamming EVERY TA power (per, got all three), some of them with three recharges in, and all with 1xEnd reducer. AND im running two leadership toggles. Pretty much no way I could do that with /dark.

I'd say they all have advantages and disadvantages.

/Poison

Single Target (Good Solo/AVs, Bad big teams)
Excellent debuffing, including -regen for AVs.


/TA

Lots of BIG AoE (reverse of above)
End light
Debuffs a bit lacklustre
Highest damage secondary (Oil Slick, Disruption, Acid)

In principle Id agree that /Dark is better, and in fact over powered.

However, in very large teams spewing out AoE, I would say TA is better. Dark has marginally less AoE effects, and fear effects are less useful when enemies are getting constantly hit.

The problem with CoV is that large teams are exceptionally rare...

Anyway, rather than TA being overpowered, its a case of /Dark being overpowered (particularly solo/small teams) compared to anything else. Personally, I think it was a pretty bad call to give Masterminds a /Dark power. It needs rethinking. The main problem is the horrible effectiveness of its heal (or any team members AoE heal). A subtle rebalance like -25% effectiveness of heals on minions would go a long way to redress this.

Guys im just getting slowly over a thunderous Migraine... doubt I can make it this Thurdsay. Even if I can actually play the game I;m in a filthy irritable mood.

Hellfire had a few "Migraines" in the past but I didnt realise how awful they can be till yesterday...

I wish it was. But it wont be .

Granite is over powered - for one reason only. You can wear granite armour AND have the increased regen from rooted. This makes it extremely hard and fruitless to take down a granite tank. Granted its got is major drawbacks too, but these can be overcome to a limited extent. (Teleport, 3 x slot swift, 3 x slot sprint... and remember by choosing Granite you effectively free up three other powers and all the slots that go in them).

It would only need a slight rebalancing in my opinion. say an additional -25% debuff to regen and all heals coming its way. This would make it a little easier for a Granite to eventually fall by chipping away at it, and actually makes conceptual sense too (bit hard to heal stone, isn't it? ).

Firstly -

Debuffs only useful for the first few seconds? If thats the case you are playing on far too low a difficulty my friend. And perhaps I should untoggle those debuffs on that AV that is pounding you to the ground... Lets see if the tank likes that heh?

A couple of suggestions...

Firtly, a bind is helpful

Second, discuss with the team who you would like to anchor.

There are basically three choices...

Minions:

Advangtages: Means you can kill the boss (biggest threat first)
Disadvantages: Highly likely to get dropped anyway because so fragile. More likely to run. If mobs scatters, boss becomes free of debuff.

IMHO: Bad choice unless you have a team of boss killing scrappers. Which probably means you havent got a very good team anyway . Under no circumstances use this if you have lots of AoE flying around, or if any powers are being used that cause sctter (caltrops, rains, etc. )


Leiutenants:

Advantages: Allows Boss to get killed first. Allows some discrimination about who has been anchored.

Disadvantages: As above, but not so significant

IMHO: Good middle ground. Often the best choice in pick up groups or relatively mediocre teams.



Option 3: Bosses

Advantages: The biggest threat is always debuffed. That means he isnt a big threat. Pretty much always able to identify and avod the anchor. Highly unlikely to run. Even if attacked, likely to be last one standing.

Disadvantages: Some argue that bosses need to go down first (this is a bad argument IMO: a debuffed boss is hardly any threat to a decent team). Possibly slightly slows you down by the need to wipe out minions first (not my experience but hey).

IMHO: The best choice, particularly for good teams. Not good if you have a load of scrappers on the team (partially because they are so good at taking down bosses, partially because they tend not to think).


In a tight team with a tank and debuffer who know what to do, you can simply crank difficulty up to invincible and safely fight +3's by clustering them all round an anchored boss and letting rip with AoE's.

I have never ever had a problem with igniting Oil Slick within about 2 seconds of it being laid down.

If my robots AoE energy attacks dont ignite it, my innate taser (tech origin temp) always does.

Just hasnt ever been a problem for me at all *shrug*

The world is your oyster really...

IMHO...

/Dark is tasty with stacked -acc debuffs (my favourite debuff except for -res). Immobilises are usefull to keep this clustered in darkest night.

/Sonic would be my choice for solo-friendly (lots of single target, lots of control, -res for best damage).

/Psi good all rounder but pathetic when you get psi-resistant enemies (spend 10 mins killing a +1 clockwork minion... )

/Elec good secondary effect, nice AoE for teams, another hold power to stack with dark. Pretty fine!

/Rad similar to elec. Nice AoE. The -defence debuff covers a hole in dark's debuff and allows things like the heal to hit more reliably (which is a nice synergy)

/Archery. Bit of a redraw pain (not a huge problem with the toggles of dark but still a problem). Not good for most of the attacks but has one of the best Defender Nova's in Rain of Arrows (not a complete Endurance drain, rapid recharge) which is very helpful.

Only one I would avoid is /Energy. You dont really want knockback powers if you want to keep enemies clustered around Darkest Night. Although occassionally useful to reposition enemies, its probably best avoided unless you are VERY solo orientated.

Granite is far from a God...

As others have posted being the last to fall is the last thing a team wants. A team wants you to be the first to fall, or nobody to fall. If you are the last to fall you are, quite frankly, a complete failure, particularly as a Granite tank who does absolutely pitiful damage and is only there to protect the team. I can tell you Id be rather quick with the boot if you were consistently the last to fall, and Im pretty laid back... and I dont think Im alone in that regard. I get quite tetchy about tanks who are there to soak up xp and debt dodge while the rest of the team face plant.

You will have the worst damage output of any tank - its equivilent to about 1/5 of other tanks if you factor in recharge penalty.

But more importantly, you are the worst possible aggro grabber, being so slow, and having taunt and other attacks recharge at -70%.

With the AV changes, it appears taunt is now a necessity to keep AV's off the squishies. And even then its no joke. Im not sure a Granite could do it without heavy heavy slotting of taunt (3xrech, 3xtaunt) - has anyone tried this recently?

Personally, Id rather stone tanks kept Granite as an "oh sh.." button when they start getting pounded too fast. They used to be great vs AV's but with the taunt changes im not so sure...

Flavour of the Month seems Ice tanks if you really want to min/max.

PvP id say Fire tanks but not really my thing.

Holding my horses before final judgement... but....

Its all very well dominators getting buffs in teams, but until teams want dominators...

Holds are very very poor vs AV's. This is a generic issue. It effects Controllers to a lesser extent of course. A new solution needs to be found, or Dominators will continue to be completely unawnted level 40+, even if they had domination permanently up.

Lvl 37 Robots/Ta here...

Get every single dooda Trick Archer power... they are all superb!

Redraw problems... I'd miss ALL of the Primary Attacks (THe laser beam gun thingy)... Damage is NOT an issue as a Trick Archer - with two -res debuffs and the mighty Oil Slick which kills minions to fast for my robots to even get at them.

Back from Hols:

Derek regarding your troller: I'd say...

Dont bother with Team Teleport till much later on.

As always, I would get Stamina - I know its a pain getting Swift, Health, and Stamina, but it is extremely helpful. If you dont, be prepared to put AT LEAST one end reducer in all hold powers

I would say that up to level 22:

1. Lift or Crushing Field.
1. Personal FF
2. Gravity Distortion
4. Deflection Shield
6. Swift
8. Recall Friend or Teleport Foe
10.
12.
14. Teleport
16. Health
18. Gravity Distortion Field (the AoE hold)
20. Stamina
22. Dispersion Field (the AoE protection one if FF).

These are all the bread and butter excellent powers you should take.

Note the gaps:

You may want to fill with Lift, Crushing Field, Force Bolt, Insulation Field, Hover, or Propel.

If you are feeling extremely team centred, or it fits RP, then leadership pool (assault/tactics are the best).

But basically that would be my idea to be a good controller - and you have two gaps to fill according to concept.

Make sure you slot Gravity field with 6 slots as soon as possible. Its the main priority for you and something you will be using all the time. 1xacc, 3xhold is minimum. Personally I slot 2xacc, 3xhold, 1xrecharge.

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In fact, it really has only one non-control power - levitate.

[/ QUOTE ]Nice duration knockup, affects most bosses with one application, it's definitely control, just not conventional type.

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Pedantic mode on: Its not control

Real World mode on: It is control

Cant say fairer than that!

Please - I'm not knocking Illusion at all.

Firstly, I stand corrected - Spectral Terror is AoE, mebad

Secondly, I have repeatedly made the distinction between Control and Support. I agree with you entirely. Whilst I still maintain that Illusion is bad at a purist view of "Control" it still has excellent support powers.

Nevertheless, Illusion has a (relatively) poor amount of AoE powers compared to the other control sets (Earth, Fire, and Ice have only two single target powers for instance).

What does the lack of AoE mean?

Solo / Duo- you will have the easiest time (and many would say from experience that Illusion is the easiest to solo)

Small groups you come out about even.

In large groups you come out badly.


Its not "gimped" or "Bad" at all. Im just making the point the relative lack of AoE makes it less desirable as a support toon than other control primaries IF you are in big teams. THe flip side is its more desirable solo / duo.

Id still have to say that Illusion is, in my opinion, weak at control.

It also has very poor AoE capability compared to the other control sets - single target powers of spectral wounds, blind, greater invisibility - with Pet and Spectral Terror - all pets with largely Single Target Ability (Phantom Army
should probably at a push be considered AoE due to taunt ability).

Guess what - easiest controller to solo (suprise suprise with all those single target powers)...

I think as MaX said, Mind has the best capacity of any controller for "Control" - i.e. stopping the enemy doing anything... with TK, Confuse x2, Sleep x2, Fear, Dominate x2. In fact, it really has only one non-control power - levitate.

In terms of pure "Control" one would have to say - literrally, that Illusion is weak and Mind is strong - IF you take a narrow and precise view of what control is.


If you are looking at AoE effects - actually neither come out particularly well. Mind slightly ahead.

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Probably the highest AoE potential of any controller secondary (/Rad and /Dark have only one-ish aswell? - Mutate, Petrifying Gaze, Fluffy - I think thats it).

[/ QUOTE ]Since when is dark a troller secondary?

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Excellent point, well made...

Id agree with you that Earth tops the lot for "control" (maybe alongside mind)

However, we are talking "support". Some of the Fire / Ice powers debuff/damage - not control, but great support.

If you want control Earth and Mind top of my list.

If you want "Support" and AoE effects, Ice and Fire up there with Earth.

However, fires "Bonfire"... hmmm... AoE... but pants most of the time

As for Storm - this has only one single target effect iirc? 02 boost?. I suppose Lightning Storm probably counts as mainly single target effects. Probably the highest AoE potential of any controller secondary (/Rad and /Dark have only one-ish aswell? - Mutate, Petrifying Gaze, Fluffy - I think thats it). So i'd def be with you on the storm side of things.

(Empaths... i think its 6single target effects... heal other, absorb pain, clear mind, fortitude, rez, adrenaline boost ..... yuk yuk yuk! )

If you are looking at a "Team" character simply stuff as many AoE powers in as possible. This includes AoE buffs, or buffs that recharge so quickly they may as well be AoE (like speed boost, bubbles, sonic bubbles).

So it partly depends on what powers you pick rather than what sets.

Looking at the potential for AoE, for instance...

Earth does very well indeed (only 2 single targets effects, although pet is largely single target damage)...

Ice does suprisingly well aswell - the same as earth...

Fire pretty good too - the same as earth...

Mind does pretty well (4 single target effects - dominate, hypnotise, confuse, levitate)...

Grav okish (4 single target effects and pet)

Illusion poor (3 single target powers, 3 pets all with largely single target effects)


As regards to secondaries...

Bah count 'em up yourself!

Interestingly, empaths come out with least potential number of AoE powers of the lot.




Only worth considering. There is more to it than AoE. But in largish teams (5+) AoE is king, and if you plan to be in large teams regularly, the more AoE you can stuff in the better.

In the same way that /regen scrappers are more "equal" than other scrappers

In line, yes... but a bit too "in line" if you ask me

Ice is a very strong set... probably too strong if you ask me. It was thrown some good buffs due to the problems with defence... and these have remained even after the problems with defence have been sorted out in issue 7.

Invun is, as you say, slightly tougher and has a better level 9 power in unstoppable. However, Ice is more well rounded in its protection (probably tougher vs anything but smash/lethal/fire), has icicles for damage, and is the best aggro grabber in the business.

Whenever a team im on sees an ice tank, its smiles all around as we know we will be very safe.

I always pick powers for concept.

However, we are unfortunately somewhat constrained - if bad choices are made, the character becomes "Unworkable" - impossible to solo, and lets face it - undesirable in team.

If I give my Controller 5 powers from his secondary, 2 powers from his primary, boxing, kick and provoke... he's not useless but lets face it, most teams are going to be far from impressed. Teaming is going to be a nightmare.

To remain practical and workable, and not least to do your duty of being reasonably functional to a team, I think you need a "workable" build. Not Min/Maxed by any means, but workable.

To be honest, Ice and Invun play pretty similar (aside from what I said above), Whilst Stone is the toughest but weakest aggro grabber and Fire is most skwishy but most damaging.

The variety probably comes more from your secondary...

SS/ENergy - single target damage kings, good for solo.

Mace/Axe - middle of the road

Fire - AoE King. Excellent for big teams and more aggro.

Ice - Defence King. Will boost your toughness but least damage.