Cognito

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Personally, I play my tanks as aggressive meat-shields. I will attack for as long as I can afford the endurance cost and on the condition that it's not causing me to lose track of aggro - the last thing you want to do as a tank is for your actions to get the whole team killed, especially if it's because you were too busy beating on that Boss to notice that you'd lost the attention of the other mobs.

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Follow this simple guide, and you will be instantly be a good tank.

Is it time to resurrect the tank / taunt thread?

Personally, I view things simply as can the AT do the AT's job reasonably well.

In the case of the Tank is boils down to: Can a tank take the lions share of the aggro; in essence allowing the rest of the team to get down and do their job free from the burden of taking care of themselves.

Ive come to see how tanks are "facilitators" more than any other AT. They allow the team members to get down and do their job(s). When tanks dont do their job, you see blasters, controllers, and defenders all running around and chaos. With good tanks on the team you often see how quickly things fall apart when and if they fall.

With any toon, I think all a team wants, and quite rightly expects, is that you can do your job reasonably well. This comes down to skill, build, and attitude. To be honest no-one should get to upset about wether your tank attacks or not - but they WILL get upset if in a 6 man team you are taking 20% of the aggro.

Indeed.

Even a toon taking every single primary power and slotting them optimally will still have plenty of powers to take from secondary, or even pool, and the slots to put on them.

Clearly, providing you have the endurance and the time, you should use every power in your disposal. This goes just as much for defenders who blast. Once you have buffed / debuffed / healed, you may as well contribute to taking down the enemies by doing damage.

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I have an idea, I'll put a suggestion in to get rid of all secondery powers sets. That should make the game even more interesting!

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Didnt say that. I said one should generally focus on your primary. Thats an absolutely different thing from ignoring your secondary.

Ultimately, A tanks primary is better than his secondary.

Whilst no tank will be optimal in any team, all toons should normally focus on their primary first (bacause they do that much better) and their secondary.. umm... second...

If everyone stopped worrying about aggro and took AoE's, players could whip through spawns and levels at a blistering pace.

Take AoE, team with other AoE'ers and laugh.

If you join a team full of single target specialists, groan and leave. You do most of the work, you take most of the risk

Dont know to much about Rad attacks, although I understand that X-Ray Vision looks cool but isnt . I find the Irradiate power is a nice AoE attack if you like teaming a lot.

The Rad primary is where you should really focus your attention however.

Must Have Powers:

Radation Infection ( with 3 to hit debuffs)
Ennervating Field ( probably with 3 end reducers)
Lingering Radation ( looking at 3 recharge boosters, probably an accuracy aswell)

Why Must Have? Because you are, in essence, first and foremost, a debuffer. And a very good one. VERY good. By using these powers and keeping all the enemies tightly bunched around the "anchor" (the target of the powers), your foes will become wimpering and feeble. Teams will not realise how awesome you are until one day you show them by letting them taste whats its like when you have not debuffed (and every suddenly starts missing, hitting for less damage, getting hit, and getting hit HARD). (PS dont do this really! )


Good Powers to Get

Accelerate Metabolism:

Buffs nearly everything, but not by a lot. 3 slots with recharge so its up as much as possible. Maybe 1 or 2 end modifiers.


Worthwhile but average powers:

Radaiant Aura... you are NOT a healer. This is just to soak up the little damage that does get through your debuffs (which on a good team, keeping the enemies clustered around a tank, should not be much). 3 heals, maybe some recharge and end reductions depending on how you feel.

Choking Cloud

Either total pants or excellent. Only use when you are next to a GOOD tank. It adds a lot of holds to a lot of minions. In fact, I was able to tank myself by running this and having everyone around me debuffed (and using heal).


Mutate

Ideally no-one should die, but hey, it happens. At least when it does they bounce back super buffed and ready to pound. Its probably the best rez in the game after howling twilight. I just leave it with one recharge. You need it more? lower the difficulty or find a new team

EMP Pulse

Final power, its a VERY long hold in a VERY wide area. Just make sure they are killed by the time they wake up or its aggro on you. I normally use this as a "Oh... bother" power, but its your call. Slot with accuracy, hold, and recharge to your taste.



Take it or Leave it Powers

Fallout.

Damage is unspectacular, debuff is spectacular. But, its hard to use as you need the corpse of a team-mate (excellent if it was the tank who fell and you have fast reflexes before they scatter) and its a smallish area of effect. Don't worry about the damage - it helps, but its the collosal debuff that helps more.

Generally thought of as the worst power in the Rad set, and I agree. However, its not all bad. I found it more usefull at the end of the game (lvl 40+) when you face a lot of very nasty AV's. Debuffing is the name of the game vs AVs (you will be the most popular defender at this time), but your comrades do often fall at the feet of an AV. Cast fallout then mutate, and you have several seconds of a very enfeebled AV to help turn the tide.


Hope this helps. The biggest thing to grasp is that you are NOT a healer, you are a debuffer.

Rad is an extremely powerful and effective set, PROVIDING the team appreciates your debuffs and knows how to use them. The trick is to bunch the enemies all nice and tight around the anchor and get them all debuffed.

You will come to love skilled tanks (particularly ice ones) who can do this

You will come to loathe knockback. Prepare to groan when you see energy blasters. Prepare to shriek when you see storm users spam gale.

Personally, I found soloing with my Grav/Sonic pretty easy (level 32 for some time now.. might dust him of soon).

Very safe anyway, lots of single target control, dimension shift for pear shaped moments, and repel for singularity making me pretty much immune to melee.

As for sonic?. Well, powers such as disruption field are great on a tank, but useless solo.

However, you will have...

a) Mez resistance (which only forcefielders can claim), which is probably a 'trollers nightmare (get mezzed and its goodbye - hit points are so low).

b) -res in the first sonic power. Which is actually very useful.

Couple b) with Propel and I can whack off 2/3 of a minions health in one hit (with containment). Throw in a lift and a crush, and that normally enough to finish of a minion.

Grav / Sonic is not the fastest (Nothing like a kin/fire), but it is not the slowest (Earth/Force Field for instance). It is, however, a good single target damager, and gives you personal safety in sonic dispersion field.

Again, only level 32, but I really have no complaints soloing on medium level. I could ratch it up a bit but will probably wait till sing is properly slotted. At medium level now, I dont think I have ever died soloing.

Dark Armour stuffed full of AoE - Good for "Team" Stalkers

Ninjitsu - only two AoE - Better for "Solo" Stalkers (But not a bad comprimise compared to /SR and /Regen)

(Applies to PvE only)

If you are going /TA MM, the important thing is to be able to light the defining power of the set, Oil Slick.

Bots will do this very nicely
Ninjas (with Oni) or Thugs (with Arsonist) will do so, more unreliably.
Or, get a Origin based power with energy component, like the taser of tech (cant remember the other one), that is fairly reliable.

Other than that? Synergy? Nothing in particular. I suppose /flash arrow goes well with ninjas but nothing spectacular. And I suppose the ability of /TA to keep things at a distance (with glue arrow, entangle arrow, oil slick) makes ranged minions (/bots, /mercs, /thugs) slightly more useful.

And if you want to attack (use your primary personal attack powers), which personally i never do as a MM, but if you do, then you will have redraw problems unless you take /ninjas as your primary.

Basically, its pretty much your call.

COuldnt find an appropriate place to post this on the Militia Forums...

Anyways, I have been a bit absent from forums / Militia over last week due to health problem - basically I have had nasty neuropathic pain which has made me very grumpy and tired.

Its getting better but to be honest I'm shattered and irritable and in no mood to roleplay tonight. I'll probably be online thumping things with an alt to get out my aggression. I really enjoy playing FC and the Militia, I do love FC's character and mannerisms, and so I cant really enjoy myself and play him properly when Im so knackered and to be honest a bit spaced out on painkillers.

Fortunately, Im on the mend (Hellfire, two days ago I wouldnt have been able to type this), so I hope to be back commanding the forces next week.

Sorry to you all. I feel quite bad over the last two or three weeks being so uninvolved. I know FC is entirely replacable but don't give up on me yet!

If you are going for PvP manuevability, I would fit Inertial Reduction in there. Cant be toggle dropped, no movement supression on attacking... Its a PvP'ers dream really.

Fairy Nuff!

I still think combat jumping isn't a worthwhile choice myself.

Whereas provoke (from presence pool) for a perma granite may well be?

Why going Superspeed?

Personally Id swith Superspeed and Combat Jump for Boxing and Tough. An extra quick recharge attack will always be handy for a Granite tank, and Tough for... well... being tough (er)...

I know some Granite tanks who have slotted Brawl with an accuracy and recharge to maximise on gauntlet but only if you can spare a slot or two.

You may wish to consider Teleport with two end reducers as you may well being using it a lot in combat.

The challenge for Granite tanks is not so much staying alive, but for being worthwhile tanks (i.e. maintaining aggro) with their mobility and recharge problems. In my experience they do very well when things run smoothly, but when things go badly (knockbacks, second spawns, fllying/teleporting enemies) they struggle.

Honestly, the only thing that sets dark apart from TA is the AoE heal. Guess what, other than that, they are balanced.

Dark provides a heal, more defence

TA provides better damage, lower end cost.


TA IS a late blooming set. And thats because of the absolutely murderous combination of Glue Arrow, Disruption Arrow and Oil Slick Arrow setting us a zone of falling down and rapidly dying enemies. Anyone who has discounted TA, I would say, simply hasnt seen this ghastly combination. Get your henchmen takingo ut the boss (with the addition of an acid arrow) and its hey presto. A no risk, very quick encounter. The only downside is the long recharge (up every two fights or so - although Glue and Disruption should be up every fight or so).

/TA will always outdamage /Dark. But, /Dark provides more protection and is safer.

Redraw to me isnt a problem. Mastermind attacks are pretty weak IMO. Dont take em. I just spam every single TA power.

IMHO it depends entirely upon you...

If you want to solo more, then Lightning field is an end hog for damaging, at most, 3 enemies. Drop it. In addition, you would benefit from aid self to reduce down time.

Personally, I never get aid self, but it is good for PvP. A blaster with at least one stun/hold power should be able to mitigate enough damage in order to rapidly dispose of enemies (providing they have the health power) without too much downtime, but thats me...

As the teams get bigger, AoE get bigger. In large spawns, Ligtning field becomes a highly effective damage power - BUT, you will need a tank or a shed load of control / buffs / debuffs in order to either avoid the aggro or survive it. Really, its a power to use whilst standing beside a tank.

Lastly, if you are doing the whole "End drain" thing with short circuit, Lightning field becomes a whole lot more useful. Because if you can drain the end of everyone near you, Lightning field "tics" fast enough to at least prevent moest enemies from using the REAL big hitters, as they wont ever get enough end to use the nasty powers.

But it depends how you slot it. Of course, it gets more effective aswell if you are using shortcircuit, and depending on who you team with. Ice tanks, Kinetic defenders... all good.

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I also agree that the BEST soloist will not be the BEST team-orientated toon, but IMO there are some builds out there that are very, very close to the top of both spectrums.

Having said all that, I can see that this is something you've thought a good deal about and I don't expect to change your mind about it. Differences in opinions and playstyles help keep this game interesting!

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Player skill, and indeed "Build" skill are, to my mind, the most important variable. But we are all, to some extent, slaves to maths.

A team with ONLY AoE attacks would be pretty difficult. However, even the most AoE characters likes Spines/Dark scrappers of Fire/Fire blasters still will have a fair number of single target attacks.

Personally, I have never ever been in a team with too many AoE attacks. Has anyone else?

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Agree, my main point, however is that /regen is a Flat damage mitigator whilst /SR is a proportional damage mitigator.


[/ QUOTE ]Regen, however, can utilize the most +res and +def buffs, since those values have a cap, which the other secondaries reach easier, while there is no cap AFAIK (and considerably less buffs as well) for regeneration.

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Quite true. No build is, of course, the best in all situations.

Agree, my main point, however is that /regen is a Flat damage mitigator whilst /SR is a proportional damage mitigator.

/Invun is proportional and has an additional scaling protector in Invincibility.

/Dark has proportional damage mitigation and a shed load of AoE's that benefit the entire team.


Personally, and this is a gripe, I get a bit tired of people saying they are very valuable to teams AND great solo. Its just not possible. You cannot be great at everything in this game. I play a MA/Regen and a play a Spines/Dark scrapper. I fully accept my /Regen is not so good in teams (but can blitz through solo missions), and my Spines/Dark is absolutely marvellous in teams, but is much slower solo.

Most toons are of course somewhere in the middle. But Imi afraid cold hard maths pretty much dictates that AoE win in PvE big teams. And /Regen is, mathematically, very strong solo or in very small teams (and visa versa, relatively weak in big teams).

Reason for /Regen being mathematically weaker than /SR is long but here goes...

Firstly, if we take the position that the tank in a team, then damage mitigation / heals are irrelevant. In this case, /SR has a very marginal advantage over /Regen because of quickness power - it will boost the dps of the scrapper slightly, making it more effective for the team.

Now, if we are looking at damage "Migtigation". /Regen has a "Flat" rate.. i.e. damage mitigation is static and independent of incoming attacks, because it is based on healing HP. /SR, however, will mitigate an amount of damage dependent on incoming attacks...

E.g. Lets say Scrapper R, a /regen, heals 100 HP/second as his "damage mitigation". Scrapper S, a /SR has 50% damage mitigation.

[NB these are not truly reflective, just illustrate my point].

In a small team, and a small spawn, lets say the scrapper takes 100 HP/Second average damage. In this case, Scrapper R has, on average, total damage mitigation, whilst Scrapper S will take, on average, 50 HP damage / second.


In a big team, with a big spawn, lets say the scrapper is receiving a shed load more damage (and he should be, if there is no tank on the team and he is doing his job). Suddently, on, average, the scrapper is taking 300 HP/second damage. (Hopefully, of course, with the defenders and controllers he is protecting from this damage, in turn helping him). In such a case, Scrapper R will effetively take 200 HP/second damage, whilst Scrapper S will take 150 HP/second damage.

These are only ball park figures, but it demonstates the fact that /regen has a basically "Flat" damage mitigation, whilst /SR (and all other secondaries in fact) have a basically "Proportional" damage mitigation. Hence, my argument that /Regen is better solo and worse in teams.

However, there is an argument that if a team could very carefully modulate the amount of aggro a tank / scrapper gets it would be possible to make the /Regen superior. Impossible to do in practice

Sorry i was including Cones in the broad definition of "AoE". And as you say, Broadsword/Katana have a few good cone / AoE attacks in.

The endurance per damage cost of cones / AoE is of course, far lower than single target attacks in big teams / big spawns.

As you say, a Fulcrum shifted fireball can wipe out some minions and a few broadslaps take out the boss. But then, something like Blaze and Firebolt could, aswell.

However you cut the mustard, AoE effects (not just attacks) are more effective in PvE big teams. The only exception is vs AV's, which is actually a fraction of your time (even on AV missions).

Back to the original post, mathematically /Regen is great solo poor in teams, /SR and /Invun somewhere in the middle, and /Dark is great for teams. I can categorically say a tank would far rather have a /Dark next to him, damaging everything around him, debuffing their accuracy and disorientating him, than a /Regen whose powers effectively do diddly squat for the tank.

Cloak of Fear must also exceed Disruption field in end cost.

Quills, Feery Aura, Dark Embrace (if thats the Dark Armour secondary AoE damage one), Hot Feet, That Electric one which damages everything (Lightning field is it?). AFAIK these all have very high endurance costs too, I think in excess of disription field?

Personally, I have never been on a team with too many AoE's, weheras most of the teams I have been on have to little.

Even primarily AoE characters likes spines scrappers or fire blasters mix in their attacks with single target effects.

No, I have to say the real reason that people dont take AoE attacks is because the game is riddled with cowardness. People are terrified of aggro. Even some tanks, like the tauntless Granite tank (yes, thats level 32), who decided not to run Mud Pots most of the mission.

If everyone in the team stopped worrying about aggro and let rip with the AoE they had, teams would sweep through missions at a furious page. But people don't take AoE, they take single target powers. So the AoE'rs end up contributing more for the team and taking more debt. Bitter, Moi?

AoE rules in PvP big teams. YOu may argue about a boss. HOwever, if the minions are quickly wiped out, a lone boss is no challenge to an 8 man team.

Ive never ever been on an 8 man team when people have AoE'd the minions in seconds and then stood around for hours struggling to kill the boss. I am struggling to see how on earth that could happen, actually. Maybe with 8 Fire blasters who only used fire ball and rain of fire. But they don't. They would all use these and then Blaze / Fire bolt on the boss and everything would drop at the same time.

Hover would do ok to fill the kb whole if you ask me, with the added benefit of combat mobility (staying out of melee), lower end cost, and a tiny defence bonus. Personally, if you already have status resistance, I'd go with KB.

I forget, does Aid self give sleep resistance?