Cognito

Very pertinent question.

I have done the STF with an Ice tank (without taunt). A success, but painful. I doubt we would have succeeded without a Phantom Army. My rad defender couldnt effectively debuff LR - as soon as I did, LR turned around, ran at me, and pummeled me to death from full health in 2 shots (in the blink of an eye).

Provisionally, when I finally get my Ice/Ice to 50, I would like to try the STF with him, for a challenge.

My thoughts on the matter:

To start with: The basics.

1. Accuracy Tower MUST go down as soon as possible. With it down, things are a lot smoother.
2. To start with Hoarfrost up.
3. ENsure you have TFC and all +HP accolades.
4. Tough 3 slotted.
5. Well slotted Aid Self.
6. Full Insp Tray of Oranges (maybe purples and greens).
7. Taunt slotted with 3xSO (Possibly 2xIO) taunt enh.

Next:

I would play to an Icer's Strength. Unsurpassed and unslowable mobility. I aim to have well slotted fly and taunt with 3 taunt durations. Float above LR (So he can't superspeed - has to fly instead), taunt, fly, taunt, fly, taunt, fly. This would require very careful timing of taunt but if you max out taunt durations you could minimise the times you taunt. Because this is the one time you will really be open to being hit hard: fly supresses, LR catches up with you, wham... etc. Depending on this tactic, Aid Self could potentially be used - but again, Fly supression kicks in and may be better off swallowing greens or relying on Mr. Empath. Hopefully you will have LR debuffed with at least one Rad (Now thats a powerset thats invaluable for STF) - but this means you MUST perma aggro LR.


Im not saying its easy, but I think it requires a taunt and run. LR packs a whallop at range, but he wont obliterate you like he does in melee.

Your fire blaster not dying, and even more importanty, feeling completely free to let rip with AoE is going to contribute a lot more to damage than any tank.

When I tank, the way I increase damage is to team with people who have shed loads of AoE and let them frolic on my nice clustered enemies, not slot my attacks with damage and recharge, miss taunt, and think rage is great because it increases my damage (Hint: It WILL drop, and your team mates will stop doing damage).

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True, I use EMP Arrow as an opener on my Grav/TA rather than as a panic button which is why I love it so much, I use EMP as a panic button on my Fire/Rad, which is why I don't.

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*nod* I can certainly see why Grav/ would need EMP as an opener and Fire wouldn't...

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Because?

IIRC both Grav and Rad have almost identical holding powers. The only difference is Hot feet and Smoke Vs Lift and Dimension Shift (and I cant see much in it here), and the Pets - In actual fact Sing provides much more protection than imps in the form of holds, lifts, and the not often used but extremely effective KB Aura.

Then concentrate on clustering the enemies into a nice shiny bundle for your team mates to decimate.

Id say it would be a lot more fun with a Rad defender (or controller) or AoE blaster (Fire/Fire preferably) who will really appreciate your magnetic powers in keeping all those baddies into a tight bundle of debuff goodness or AoE damage.

Use terrain to your advantage, under platforms, around corners, etc.

Above all, team.

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I think waiting until everyone is in the red is a bit to long to wait before using a panic button.

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Live... on... edge...



Fair point, I do use it earlier than that, but when I do use it, I want a fairly fast activation. EMP arrow leaves me a bit nervous in this regard... although I still use it as such and jolly good it is too.

Mepardon. Ice Tanks are best at grabbing aggro.

They do, of course, suffer in other ways. No set is better than another. They may be better than others under certain circumstances of course.

As a fire blaster, you will want to be (and be wanted by) big teams. Big teams want AoE. Fire breath is a fantastic AOE hitter.

Dull pain is, of course, a carbon copy of hoarfrost and earths embrace respectively. A slightly less interesting animation but thats about it.

Having played a lvl 50 MM Trick Archer and a lvl 50 Rad defender...

I use both EMP as "Oh..S..." buttons. Id rather be sure it was there when needed instead of every x minutes having an easy fight and then when the s hits the f it isnt available.

In such a case, I find EMP superior simply because it has a faster activation. And thats what you want when the plan goes a bit pear shaped. Both are good, but that EMP arrow takes an awfully long time to fire when everybody is in the red...

Interesting point tho.

And fair point. Let me clarify,

Ice Tanks grab aggro best
Stone [Granite] Tanks survive aggro best
Fire tanks kill em all best
Invun tanks dont do anything best but are still rather splendid.

I cant recall the current to hit formula. I seem to recollect that "To hit buffs" still scale with defence but I cant be sure on that. Any source on this?

DOes Vengeance still stack from Nemesis? Or is it the same effect as non-stacking on players. I dont know the answer but I am finding Veng'd Nemesis less of pain these days (may be my imagination)/.

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I have an ice tank. Sure it has a bit better aggro control options, but the invul can still keep the entire spawn taunted most of the time.

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THe challenge with a tank is not to keep routine spawns taunted. Its to keep the patrol / accidentally aggrod second spawn / knockbacked / wormholed / flying cabal / teleporting skyraider (or Rikti) taunted aswell.

Ice Tanks do it best

For teams, id say invun pips it by a shade. It controls aggro, and in large spawns you get proportionally more accurate and... well... hard.

If you really want to go for a team build, go Dark Armour. AoE damage, AoE fear, AoE Heal, AoE disorientate. Heck, even the self rez is AoE in effect.

Not sure I entirely agree with Shannon, myself. Whilst most of the post quite correct to my mind, one thing... In a team, it will be the other team members (usually) who are far more efficient at bringing down enemies than Mr. Tank. Therefore slotting "damage" on tanks attacks will not, proprotionally, bring down enemies much faster in a big team, because, proportionally, you are contributing small amounts of damage to the kill.

A team would prefer you absolutely ensure that the enemies are attacking you, rather than them, as first priority. Damage is second. Loosing endurance is a surefire way to minimise taunt (from gauntlet anyway) and, in the worst scenario, get pounded to the ground as your toggles drop.

Any would go well. Kinetics does fill a gap in Stone (movement speed) or Fire/Dark (Knockback) but I would go with what you want.

If you are primarily a duo, I would say /Fire, to up damage.

Good point. One of the core functions is to cluster everything together for AoE hell.

Ice tanks do it best!

Well, when I play my tank I set myself a totally arbitary task. Only my hit point bar should even move. If anyone elses does a will scream and rant at them for dissing my rep!

Its not the most efficient way of play but it does add a bit of spice. "I saw that! your HP bar blipped!"

Anyhoo...

It sounds that you will never get a real kick out of tanking. Possible things to think about, however, are: GO COLD!

Ice armour: More danger in that your HP can suddenly plummet. Whilst on average no more (or even more?) resilient than other armours you face the randomness of defence. This makes things less predictable, more interesting. In addition, you have a funky damage aura, and enregy absorbtion is a more complex power (you could try a stamina free model if you are feeling brave). Chilling embrace is so wonderful you may (like me) be loathe to play any other tank afterwards, so good is its aggro gathering capability.


Ice Melee: Ok, its the lowest damage. But I never find button mashing for damage particularly interesting anyway. This turns you into a tankroller. Ice Slick is a fun power. Freezing touch is a nice hold. Frost is an intrestin cone with more slow effects.


Just a suggestion. But I think you may have chosen one of the least interesting tanks sets. Invun is a few toggles, and the only interesting things are the need for herding and when to hit dull pain / unstoppable. Resistance based, so incoming damage is fairly predictable. Energy melee is largely cyclical button mashing.


Just my 2 inf anyway.

Thanks Synergy. It looks like Granite without +recharge isnt going to cut the mustard with LR aggro then?. Probably for the best as otherwise non-Granites wouldn't get much of a see of the TF.

I would have thought Invun would go nicely with Spines or to a lesser extent claws, which have lots of AoE and rely (for most effectiveness) on lots of enemies around you.

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No taunt necessary for an AV? what planet are you from m8 gauntlet is rubbish without taunt and AV's will break from gauntlet the second a blaster opens with a barrage of attacks and his face quickly introduced the dirt but answer me this would you team with a tanker on the STF that didn't have taunt?

[/ QUOTE ]AV's in general and +4 AV's are two quite different kettles of fish.

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Ive know tanks with 1 slot in taunt have managed to perma-aggro Lord Recluse (something I understand is impossible with gauntlet / aura alone).

I would be very interested to know if a Granite can do this (lets asume no +recharge buff) with -70% penalty and if he can, what slotting would be required on taunt.

The face of with lord Recluse is something I wouldnt want to face without perma-aggro from tank unless the team is exceptionally good/well built (e.g. 8 rad defenders ).

Does anyone know if a Granite can do this and if so what slotting he/she needs?

Until

1. Team PvP becomes regular in Zones

and

2. AoE damage is buffed in PvP

I cant see PvP builds being anything but deadweight in PvE teams. And dual builds aint gonna come as far as I can see.

Not sure. Maybe around with Force Commander, lvl 35 Kin/Rad. If you see me hanging around Citadel with a white Tux on at 8:45 invite me.

Im afraid I wouldnt. Success is so "in the balance" in a STF that a tauntless tank is a liability a team cant afford.

I would possibly accept a tank with taunt if there was no other tank around (or there was allready a tank with taunt) and the rest of the team was largely, or completely, STF built, but only with tredidation.

Sorry, IMO, taunt is a requisite for STF, and good luck to you trying to get into a team without it.

Good question this.

My 2 inf.

Firstly, its the worst power in the radiation set. However, that is praising it with faint damnation really. The rest of the set varies from spectacular (LR, EF, RI) to average (Radiant Aura, Mutate, EMP) with the excellent Choking Cloud and Accelerate Metabolism inbetween. The problem with Rad is there are so many great powers.

*ahem* anyway

My advice is to take it at level 49, and leave it slotted with 1 accuracy.

I dont use it for damage (although its a respectable whallop). I almost always use it for its debuff effects.

It usually only gets a shine on an AV mission. The damage is small fry vs an AV, but the debuff a) really takes the sting out of the AV and b) allows you several seconds of HARD pummeling.

I did the STF with my rad fender a week ago. I seriously doubt we would have succeeded without Fallout. Ghost Widow was laughing at us. Even with all my debuffs (NB: I was only debuffer in team) we just couldnt make a respectable dent in her HP - when we did she healed. We just about had her at perpetual status quo.

However, every death in the team and it was mutate + vengance. Even with this, we didnt really make headway - slight gains but then back to status quo again.

When I used fallout, however, we had several solid seconds when we could really pummel her and she missed with her heals.

My suspect (no way of knowing) that without Fallout we would have given up.

For the price of one solitary slot, It was an star power. I have always been, on balance, in favour of fallout, but now I am certain I am keeping it. At level 50, its only AVs that can really kick a team in the happy sacs, and Fallout seriously helps.

TA would be my choice too.

With regards to AV, they are the smallest point of the game, but the place where teams can stumble. As this is a 5 man team, AV's might be a particular difficulty.