Cognito

I wonder what people consider acceptable levels of "tanking" by a brute?

Now, I know Brutes dont literally "Tank" - they dont have the resources to stand their soaking up everything the enemy can throw.

However, they do have sheilds, a stack of hit points, and mez resistance - and are a lot more resilient than any other CoV archetype.

My personal veiw is a Brute needs to make sure a) the mezzer's are trying to mez him and b) a goodly proportion of the enemy are attacking him.

Not the lions share like with tanks, but even so. For instance, in a hypothetical 5 man (of all 5 AT's) team, I would expect the Brute to take about 50% of the aggro. A "goodly proportion" but not the whole whack.

I emphasise this is what I expect of a Brute as a MINIMUM. I would normally play my brute getting around 75% in such a circumstance.


I ask because I recently played my AoE Fire/Dark corruptor (around level 38 iirc) in a team of 7 with two brutes. The brutes had no taunt, no taunt aura, and no AoE attacks, and got piddling aggro - can you guess where it went? Thats right, on a certain corruptor who was actually doing most of the work with a shed load of AoE attacks / effects.

I quit that team.

By that level, I expect a brute to have AT LEAST either a taunt or taunt aura. To be honest, if you don't you are becoming perillously close to a liability.

I may have made an exception if these brutes where cycling attacks from enemy to enemy but thats a very tricky and usually ineffective way of getting aggro.

WHat are peoples thoughts?

Unfortunately, due to RL issues, will have to bow out.

Sorry!

Good luck anyhow!

I would probably be up for this with Force Commander, my Kin/Rad defender (with three leadership powers).

That makes plenty of speedboosting!

Basically, dont be afraid to quit, but do it politely.

I was playing my FIre/Dark corruptor a few days back. A very effective team toon, but one who, with all the AoE, draws a lot of aggro.

The good team I was in slowly descended into a lot of hangers on who where fighting +4s rather ineffectively. THis included two Brutes - neither of them had taunt, a taunty aura or ANY AoE attacks.

After a few face plants I basically said "Thats enough debt for me, I cant be an AoE corruptor in this team" and left. Sent a tell to the team leader who was nice chap and had formed the previously good team.

If people want to play solo toons (like the above brutes) thats fine, but I cant play my team toon with them. Im sure they were lapping up the xp, but I would have been much better of solo rather than compensating for their solo toons.

So dont be afraid to make your exuses and leave, but do it politely. "U SuXxx0r" is not a good way to go. But if you join an 8 man team with 4 scrappers and 3 blasters, I would say something like "Sorry guys, Im not really going to be able to tank for this team." - you could, I suppose, offer to turn of your taunt aura and skrank, but personally I wouldnt bother.

Similarly I dont like Powerlevelling, so If I see anyone fighting +5s in a team 3 or 4 levels higher than them, I often politely say I dont PL, and leave.

Sometimes you just cant play your toon in a certain mix, so just leave!

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When a tank is in melee range of an AV the AV does his AOE attack more and hurts the scrappers in melee range allot and thats not what we want..


[/ QUOTE ]Because every single AV in the game has a high damage PBAoE.

Or do they...?

Tauntless tanks work fine, you've just clearly never teamed with a half-decent one.

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I hate to dig up this old argument again. Some people feel taunt is an absolute must for solid tanking, some people feel it is a waste of a slot. Most people feel somewhere in between.

About the only concensus is that its a must for the Statesman Task Force.

Id be interested in how this go's. I think its pretty doable, with the exception of Ghost Widow.

I have done the STF twice. The first time we took down Ghost Widow with characters in melee. But only just. This was with 8 Shivans, radiation debuffs, and even then we made no headway unless we used fallout as an additional debuff. It took about 20 mins to kill her, and we very nearly gave up.

The second time was by staying out of melee range and pounding her. Far from easy, but we could do it.


I'm really not sure how 8 scrappers are going to manage Ghost Widow. Fight in melee and I cant see you overcoming her capacity to regain hit points. Fight at ranged (with epics, maybe spines and claws) and I cant see you overcoming her base regen rate.

Disadvantages of Stone: Slow Recharge, High End cost.

*looks at ELectric Armour*

+Recharge Auto power
ENdurance recovery power

*whistles*

Why avoid second?

Its cool animation!

Well, go with concept first is my motto.

Personally, I'd say power boost and Short Circuit - simply because power boost is a far more versitile power - but it does depend a bit on your primary.

Sheilds aren't necessary. However, it all depends on who you are facing and what your team is like. I wouldn't worry about NOT taking them, but personally I veiw them as a handy power.

Not necessarily:

e.g:

Telekenetic Thrusts / Crush could do smash damage

Summon a "Psionic Blade" Psionic / Lethal damage (Bit like the three fire sword powers)

Could also include (and probably should) some very low damage mez powers (like a stun, or maybe a fear or confuse)

"Psychic Drain" from the dominator set could sit in this set - and its not a damage power.


I imagine that they are contemplating "Mixed damage types". E.g. Electric hammer would do smash / energy damage, and Power sword would do energy / lethal.

I have more serious concerns about new power sets. They wont add any new flavour to the game.

Id like any good AoE set (we only have spines) that doesnt unbalance the game by doing relatively unresisted damage!

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Glacial Blade, Ice/Axe iirc, Only 3*50s? *cracks whip*

Too much time on the forums...

[/ QUOTE ]As well as too many alts, too much debt, and too little powergaming

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But lots of fun!

Gratz, and post a guide when you have the time. Im lost with battle axe!

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Granite tank with six slotted taunt. A tauntless tank on a LRSF is almost deadweight.

And I'd only want that tank in preference to others for LR himself.


[/ QUOTE ]Granite and invul both hit S/L res cap solo. Granite suffers from heavy -rech, invul does not.

I know which I'd rather have.

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Against single target, AFAIK, Granite will have higher defence, and higher +regen (assuming rooted).

Im not clear, however, whether LR does only smash/lethal or mainly smash/lethal? I was destroyed in 3 picoseconds by him with my defender so it was rather arbitary at the time.

Having said all that, as I said, the only real consideration for me on the STF is whether the tank has taunt adequately slotted to maintain his lordships attention.

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When I see LR with my Icetanker I have no plans in taking Melee damage and should be dearly loving a stormie on the team! Looking to pull an "out of the box" trick. That would require no knuckle dragging cavemen team mates.

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Exatly how to play it with an ice tank!. Dont get me wrong I would have no qualms with inviting an ice tank to a STF (THanks for correction btw), however I would have a lot of qualms about a tauntless tank.

When i did STF with an ice tank, the ice tank was without taunt. Tanks would be flailing away, I lay down radiation debuffs on his lordship (which may have kept the tank alive). His lordship instantly runs to me and pounds my defender to the ground in under one second.

Messsage: You want to be a tank in the STF? Please get taunt.

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A granite tank if we are doing the LRSF

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How interesting...

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Granite tank with six slotted taunt. A tauntless tank on a LRSF is almost deadweight.

And I'd only want that tank in preference to others for LR himself.

Iv'e done the LRSF twice now. Once with an invun tank, once with an ice tank. The first time was fairly straightforward (Ghost Widow caused the most problems), the second was extremely difficult and if it wasn't for our illusion controller, quite possibly impossible.

If you are looking at fixing tanks, the one thing that bothers me is how the Lord Recluse Rumble smashes through Ice tanks due to high accuracy. (Admittedly, a miniscule amount of game, but even so).

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. when teambuilding and i'm looking for a tanker. i think everyone knows what to choose...

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Yes, a tank with taunt, above anything else.

Second, I would choose:

A fire tank if we have a good amount of defenders/controllers so we need more damage.

A granite tank if we are doing the LRSF (however, would have to have heavily slotted taunt).

Otherwise, an Ice or Invun tank.


But quite frankly, any tank with taunt will do me fine, thankyou.

All tanks have pro's and con's.

Fire- more damage, less defence
Ice - good at everything but vulnerable to unlucky streaks
Granite - more resilience but weakes aggro grabbing.
Invun - superb at Smash/Lethal, a little sub-par against anything else.


Personally, Granite tanks are usually at the lowest of my list and I grin madly when an Ice tank joins, but thats just personal preference. Good taunting tanks are so rare now I'd be happy with anything.

Mael, just to add: I have a damage proc (chance of psionic) in cloak of fear for even more AoE damage

I would imagine you could also add a damage proc in quills (the slow set, chance of smashing damage) to make things even more unpleasant.

Throw spines could also accept one, or two damage procs (slow and ranged AOE?)


As regards to the whole Fire/Kin vs Spines / Dark debate - IMO both do extremely well and its a bit moot arguing about it. Spines / Dark does require significantly more investment in terms of IO to make it functional.

As with the rest of CoX it all depends who you team with and what you face. Im almost certain a Spines / Dark with a Fire / Kin would do more dps than two Fire / Kins, for instance.

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Bah, Focussed Accuracy > Torrent!

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Bah,

Terbenous Tentacles > Focussed Accuracy!

You are missing Combat Jumping and Manuevers!

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PLEASE GOD SOMEONE THINK OF A NEW FARM TOON.

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A Spines/Dark/Body with IOs.

More fun than Imps-on-a-leesh, just as fast (can beat fire/kins on maps with mobs that don't resist lethal damage), and it's far more survivable... Of course, it takes AGES to get the damn thing up to 50 and then you have to source enough IOs to make all the horrible, horrible endurance issues go away...


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Absolute rot.

Spines/Dark/Dark gets one more AoE attack.

I once teamed with a tauntless perma Granite tank who "forgot" on five occassions to run mud pots and needed "reminding".

Comedy debt dodging.

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Thanks to Cognito, who yelled many times "Shields are down" i felt i was making a big difference in team.


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Hey I didn't shout!

Panicked, maybe!

Well hope I didn't offend. Its just that people underestimate how awesome FF shields are. And if you noticed on that TF, my Ice tanks HP hardly blipped thanks to your sheilds - and started to plummet when the shields dropped. Hence the reminders!

I'd far rather not be hit at all than get pounded and need healing!

Assault and Tactics would be better IMO (and need less slotting).

Vengeance is also a nice power, particularly if you fancy doing end game (like the STatesman Task Force) but of course could be delayed till level 29 or so! (Vengeance works well with just one defence slot).

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I can only tell you about ice/ice.

Ice Control: Ice Slick good, Frost Bite and Flash Freeze bad.

Ice Assult: Power Boost good, Chilling Embrace not so good.

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lvl 30 ice/ice here, so not quite so experienced-

Flash Freeze quite nice actually

CE - remain open verdict. Praf, would have thought this would stack quite nicely with Arctic Air? (and all the other -recharge/-speed powers)

(Not saying I would be standing next to an AV, or even an EB, with it on of course... im talking for the run of the mill lots of minions etc stuff).

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Which would be better as an epic. Electric or dark?

Dark gives me another toggle which is a pbaoe disorient and dark consumption, and elec gives me power sink. Not much difference between the endurance with either one though.

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My only comment is avoid Thunderstike in electric epic. It has a tendency to cause a fountain of enemies - all swishing out of debuff zone and then looking at you in an irate manner!