Cognito

Which is all good.

Personally I would have preferred a buff which boosted team performance, and not solo play, rather than one which is a mediocre team buff at best (and more significant solo play). For instance, increasing crit chance on held / slept enemies to 50% which would be of no use solo (or very little) but would have made them much stronger in teams (especially with dominators).

Sorry should clarify that team wasnt a "farming" team at all. Whilst it was a maxed out AoE team, it wasnt a min/max team, and it was quite informal. Sure, we ratched up the mission difficulty to tops, but it felt quite different to the "farming" teams I have been on which are quite a snoozefest.

Did we defeat mobs in 8 seconds? no. Fast, but not farming.

I merely used it as an example. It is *extremely* hard to get "too much AoE" in my experience. So arguments like "Sure, but if you dont take ST damage you are less flailing against a boss" in practice just dont wash.

I absolutely agree that the most important thing is fun points and the character of people you play with.

But this is *why* im dissapointed with the stalker "buff". I tend to think that if people are constrained by a mathematical disadvantage of the game to much they a) feel like a spare part (not fun) and b) slow down / frustrate othe playes (not fun).

So im actually more concerned about stalkers gimping fun points, not experience points, in team.

I have played on some maxed out AoE teams. Even these toons are forced into taking some single target attacks.

Provided the team focus these attacks on bosses, even with an ABSOLY+UTELY maxed out AoE 8 man team, the boss has fallen about 1 second after the minions.

(For reference, this was a team of 7 corruptors and 1 MM, all of who took all available AoE attacks).

Seriously, providing nobody looses their bottle and dosent focus ST fire on bosses, it is an incredible feat to take "too much AoE". When we did it, the bosses literally dropped about a second after all the minions.

Of course, occassionally things went a bit askew, mob got split, ambush etc etc, and things slowed down slightly, but I couldnt see a Stalker adding much to this.

The one and only advantage of ST attack is dropping a particularly undesirable enemy fast, as far as I can see. And in large teams that dosent seem to be needed very often, unless your team is lacking in support / protection.

If anyone has been on an AoE team where bosses survive longer, let me know, but it certainly wasnt my experience. I must emphasise that this requires all ST attacks to be focussed on a boss (or maybe a lt.)

As an additional argument, Stalkers remain slow pace AT's. They have to wait to hide, get in position, and then use a long animation AS to really work. And big teams are, by and large, fast teams (Especially at higher levels).

Im not knocking the buff, it seems cunning to me, but AVs aside, I cant see many "we need a stalker" shouts in a team.

Whilst welcome, I still cant see stalkers being anything other than a courtesy place in big teams.

Whilst this will give them a huge, much needed boost vs AV's, AV's are still less than 1% of PvE game play.

In large teams, large spawns, A0E remains king, and stalkers have the worst AoE potential of any AT. In addition, unlike other melee toons, they have neither the ability or capacity to absorb any aggro off squishies.

Its a strong idea, and will help resolve some issues of Solo Stalkers vs EB, but it seems it will remain a solo toon.

Thats true, but that's not the issue for me really. If you could tell me which AV you where successful with then I can try myself.

I dont need to survive long, just 30 seconds should tell me if I can overcome an AV's regen rate.

Could you give details?

I have a Bots/TA mastermind, who would actually do more damage than Bots/FF (due to two -res debuffs), who has assault and tactics.

I cant say I have come anywhere close to overcoming a AV's regen rate.

SO good is Ice Patch, I put 2 recharge reducers in it. REason? Flexibility. It means I can put it down at any appropriate pause in my (limited) attack chain, and also I can move around to different areas if need by and still pput down the patch.

I wouldnt consider putting an end reducer in it at all. Ice tanks, with energy absorbtion, have a pretty easy time of it with the blue stuff.

I would agree with Maelwys on the above, except to reiterate that Medicine is a very useful power for ice tanks if you want increased survivability (which you may not), and that I find the energy absorbtion power is not workable as a PvP end drain.

Well im not a great PvP'er but I know the principles.

From Ice Armour:

YOu probably want Frozen and Glacial armour, but be aware that defence is somewhat lacklustre in PvP. However, you will want both of them on at all times anyway. Glacial armour gives +perception, a useful attribute in PvP.

Hoarfrost for +HP is a must in PvP as well as PvE. Slot it 3 recharge, 3 health - although some Invention combinations would work as well for less slots.

Hibernate is the reason you take Ice Armour in PvP. It is absolutely sick. Slot it with 3 recharge and an Ice tank becomes incredibly hard to take down. Basically an enemy will have to take off ALL your hit points (posibly including hoarfrost) before it recharges, you hit it, and come back into the fold with full hp. THis is almost impossible for anything other than a brute or a blaster to do, and its no joke for them either.

Other Ice armour powers:

Icicles is virtually worthless. Its damage is slow and AoE, and in PvP you want high "Spike" damage and single target effects. I suppose it has some fractional worth in terms of hitting stalkers, but they have very high defence vs AoE attacks so fundamentally its pointless. Skip.

The passive temp protection power is almost as worthless. I would skip. Fire damage is one of the more preferred damage types in PvP, but its still not worth taking this power.

ENergy Absorbtion, whilst great in PvE, is not so good in PvP. YOu will only get endurance / defence of one enemy. Overall, its pretty skippable. However, this puts you in a dilema, because its a bread and butter power in PvE - the backbone of your tanking. And you need to PvE to level. Overall I would say take, and once you hit 50 consider dropping it.

Wet Ice. Take it. No question.

Chliing EMbrace is a must have. Slows, -recharge, and -damage debuffing. All great. One of the reasons to fear the Ice tank.

As a side note, Ice attacks are very popular in PvP, and Ice tanks have superb protection from that. In addition, Ice tanks have very high protection from slows (a crippling and popular debuff in PvP) - watch them glide over caltrops, for instance.


From Energy Melee - I havent had an EM Tank, but the obvious things to say are that Total Focus and Energy Transfer are the reasons to take this power. Slot em big.

WHirling Hands is extremely droppable. You dont want AoE attacks.

Stun isnt (generally) recommended as you have better stuns in Total Focus. Take it only if you have the spare slots.

Taunt is recommended if you are thinking of Team PvP. If you just want to duel PvP its pretty pointless. Taunt needs to be slotted for accuracy in PvP. There are some very good and cheap Invention sets for taunt aswell.

POwer Pools:

General: Unlike PvE, getting two travel powers in PvP is worth consideration. Mobility is the key.

Fitness: Pretty obligatory
Flight: Generally not liked in PvP, due to the amount of -fly although I dont have an aversion to it myself. Note that as a melee toon you may have a job getting to flying / hovering toons without it.
Jump: Tends to be the PvP power of choice. Very little -jump in the game and gives you relatively fast movement.
Superspeed: Impressive mobility but will leave you powerless vs airborne toons if you are a melee toon. A popular PvP choice. Hasten is an excellent power even if you dont get superspeed because it brings hoarfrost, total focus, and hibernate up that much quicker.
Teleport: Virtually impossible to PvP with *just* this travel power, but a popular choice as second power. Teleport Foe is a perennial PvP choice, and Teleport is great to get out of sticky situations (however, you probably wont need to get out of them as an Ice tank)
Fighting: Not so recommended in PvP. Tough is pleasant, but I would avoid Weave.
Medicine: Aid Self, as I said is very good for Ice tanks, and it is an extremely valuable power in PvP. I would recommend getting it.
Leadership: Getting Assault and Tactics is popular because Tactics gives +perception. Worth a think about if you have the spare slots but dont break your build over these (you allready have some +perception from glacial armour).
Presence: For the taunt powers, see my comments above. THe fear powers are very popular in PvP because there is little protection from them. Worth serious consideration.


Well I think thats all I can think of. good luck!

Playing a Sonic/Fire Blaster, with a cone and PBAoE, I have to say that I spend only a tiny amount of time darting to and forth on my blaster.

Whilst this may fractionally slow down my AoE (I'm not sure about this... it may slow down my overall DPS by stoping me firing ST attacks, but not my rate of AoE/Cone firing), it does allow improved flexibility and survivability.

So my 2 inf is that darting in and out for cones is not a major drawback.

I suppose it might be for fire/fire as fire breath is fairly narrow and has a long animation, but am not convinced.

RL is being erratic today, so I may not make it, and if i do turn up, may not complete it.

Apologies.

I will be there at 14:00, but unfortunately RL may interrupt me prior to end

If anyone else wants the space, I suggest they take it, otherwise I will start with you and there is a 60-70% chance I will finish with you.

Its just ive seen a lot of people say they have killed (pwnd, owned, whatever) AV's when in fact they have been downgraded EBs.

Survival against AV's is quite feasible, even for indefinate periods.

But no amount of skill can compensate for the mammoth HP and regen of AV's if you simply dont have the DPS/-resistance debuff/-regen debuff available. And there are precious few solo toons who actually have the maths to feasibly do this, AFAIK.

I would like to be there as Diamondlight, lvl 20 Illusion / Forcefeild Troller, if there is space.

I should be able to pop up with Diamondlight, an ill/FF troller (lvl 20, or maybe a bit more by saturday!)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me will power aura is bugged and not doing a respectable job in aggro management. At least fromm my experience. There is a thread on it.

The OP's testiment to the failure of Willpower just adds to the anacdotal evidence

[/ QUOTE ]

Where is the thread on that? I couldn't find it myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

here

I can certainly swallow a /poison MM, with large ST debuffs taking down an AV (althought not without difficulty). /Traps I could also see, if Poison Trap could be fire off enouigh. I could just about take a dark one (with the lesser -regen).

But I fail to see how a /FF or a /TA could actually do it?

And I cant beleive anyone could kill an AV with ease. I can onlly asume this applies to downgraded EBs, who are a vast magnitude easier.

Can I be clear you are talking about AV's here.. not down graded Elite Bosses?

Because without a Shivan (which may well underpin the reports here) I find it hard to beleive that AV's can be solo'd without very specific circumstances.

Without -regen, I can see how any mastermind could mathematically do enough damage (solo) to an AV to overcome its regen rate?

It seems to me will power aura is bugged and not doing a respectable job in aggro management. At least fromm my experience. There is a thread on it.

The OP's testiment to the failure of Willpower just adds to the anacdotal evidence

Mass imob isnt very good for solo play to be honest. You would be better taking wormhole / single target lift or a psionic attack from your secondary.

In big teams it can be helpful, particularly when you have "Scatter" powers (like rain of fire) which can cause chaos. Usually you want enemies to be tightly knit so you can get the most out of AoE attacks.

Interestingly, Gravities AoE immob can be slotted with three inventions: Proc chances of lethal, smashing, and damage (from Immobilise, SLow, and AoE damage invention sets). Put all these together and it can become a reasonable AoE attack from a damage point of veiw.

Sometimes immobilises can provide good damage mitigation. It depends on the enemy. For instance, longbow mainly used ranged attacks so it is practically useless against them. In contrast, against mainly melee toons (like Carnival strongmen or Council Warwolves) it can be excellent damage mitigation.

IMO

Firstly, they work better on teams. Dominators are the least solo freindly class on CoV.

Secondly, things improve when you get Single Origin Enhancers. You can get your second target hold up pretty quickly then (e.g. slot 2 acc, 3 hold, 1 recharge)

Thirdly, I would avoid getting the AoE hold to later. They have such a large timer they are generally only useful in big teams as a "whoopsy daisy" power when things start to go wrong. Save for emergencies, dont use routinely.

Thirdly. Get Wormhole, this recharges much more quickly and will stun all your enemies.

Fourthly. This is my sequence when locking down when I play my Gravity controller.

Vs 3 enemies:
Hold no 1
Lift no 2
Hold no 3
Lift no 2 again
Propel (or in your case, any attack) no 3
Hold no 2
Rotate holds on 1,3,2 according to how dead they are.

for Lt / Minion
Hold Lt
Lift Minion
Propel / Attacks
Hold Minion
etc.


In other words, Lift is your freind.

(PS is it lift or levitate? cant rememeber)

I think there are some guides out there, but heres my take..


ICE ARMOUR

Must have
Frozen Armour: You need Smash/Lethal defence. Period. Never take it off.
Wet Ice: You need Mez protection. Period. Never take it off.
Hoarfrost: You emergency HP boost when luck turns sour. Highly recommended.

Must have (unless you plan to solo exclusively or PvP exlusively)

Chilling Embrace: Protects you (and your team), best aggro magnet in the game. You need it. Take it.
Glacial Armour: Your energy / negative defence. Only take it off if not facing these energy types. However, when facing this damage, you WILL need it.
Energy Absorbtion: ENds your enduranbce worries, and a big boost to defence. More important in biggish teams. Possibly skippable if you plan on very small teams (but wouldnt advise it).

Take it or Leave it:

Icicles: Modest AoE damage. Good if you are in big teams, but by no means necessary.
Hibernate: Emergency button that saves your skin and leaves the rest of the team in big trouble as they start beating up the squishies (and ignoring you). A cowards button. I skip.


Skip It:
I forget its name. Because it is totally useless. It the passive cold / fire resistance one. THe cold resistance is absolutely worthless to you. The fire resistance is tiny and unless you plan on being an absolutely "maxed out" tank this is one to completely avoid.


ICE MELEE (I appreciate i have the order wrong, sorry)

Frozen fists. Take it. No choice
Ice Sword. Take it or leave it melee attack
Taunt. Long debate. I consider it a must for a serious tank.
Ice Slick. Take it. Take it. Take it. This is the reason you took Ice Melee. Amazing protection. 2 recharge slots is all it needs (or one if you are cutting it fine).
Build Up. Generally skip it unless you really badly want to scrap.
Frost: Reasonable short cone. Probably best melee attack but easily skippable.
Freezing Touch: Fairly good damage and hold. A better than average melee attack but also skippable.
Greater Ice sword: Another take it or leave it melee attack
Frozen Aura: Miss. AoE Sleep, wont last more than half a second around you.


Pool Powers:

Flight. Valid option. Air Superiority helps. Hover would grant you a very small bit of extra defence but only recommended if you are going for an absolute all out tank.
Leaping. Valid option. Combat Jumping gives a small defence boost
Speed. Valid option. Hasten always nice. Can be awkward when you need rapid vertical movement in a tricky situation.
Teleport. Not much to recommend it. Can be awkward when you need rapid vertical movement in a tricky situation.
Fighthing. Tough and Weave good for any tank, but Weave is particularly good for Ice tanks.
Fitness. Pretty mandatory, even with energy absorbtion, but you could skip it with energfy absorbtion if you are feeling clever.
Leadership. Not much to recommend it. You dont get good bonuses as a tank. Manuevers eeks out a little more defence for you if you really want.
Presence. Not much to recommend it. Your taunt power is far better, and the Fears are nothing to write home about.
Medicine. Very good for an Ice/Ice tank, as Aid self is much easier to use without interruption (you are defence based, and Ice slicks stops them hitting you)
Stealth. Best to avoid. You could get stealth to eek out a tiny bit more defence if you are going all out tank, but it realy isnt worth it. Reduces your aggro aswell, which is not good.


Hope that helps.

If you elucidate what you are looking for, may be able to give you more direction. Are you looking for PvP, PvE, Solo, small teams, or big teams, or a flexible tank for all.

Cant do everything im afraid.

Fire/Fire blaster would do very well in PvE teams, but rather bad PvP and PvE solo.

Fire/* Troller does well in PvE teams, and can be servicible PvP / PvE solo.

Spines/Dark scrapper does very well in PvE teams, is servicable in PvE solo, and pretty bad in PvP.


But a lot depends on how you build your toon.

Personally I dont take isolated cases as the STF as above as indicitive of anything.

Subtle changes can tip the balance. But it could just as easiliy have been you *didnt* need to come down to fight LR, because the empath had an extra sonic attack. Or, the TF could have failed because you took an extra attack or two instead of tough/weave, and couldnt handle the punishment you were taking.

Ultimately, "Pure breed" ATs of any type are more useful than hybdid breeds in big teams - ON AVERAGE. Of course, it depends on rest of team setup.

Personally, I think hybrids are fine. I think trying to fit a square peg in a round hole (e.,g. A pure Skranker) is unsatisfactory.

IMO you just have to decide where upon the Solo <---> Team spectrum you lie.

Bearing in mind even a MA/Regen Scrapper can team (although wont pull his weight) and a FF/Dark Defender can solo (although it will be painful).

Of course, most toons fall somewhere in the middle.

My advice? if you want to solo, roll a solo toon.

With regards to your tank, either respec him into a scranker, (but dont expect to be Mr. popular on teams, and for team effective ness to drop), or keep him as a tank and make a solo alt. Personally I would do the latter.

Im pretty clear that I have a few toons built for insomnia and solo play. And im pretty clear they would be an embarressment in a team.

The majority of my toons are team built. Most of them are able to solo to a degree although its not quick or easy. Personally, my tank has three attacks (Frozen fists, Air Superiority and Boxing) and soloing him with him is fruitless. However, he is incredibly hard and an aggro magnet (Ice/Ice tank with fighting and medicine pool, and taunt). Some of my other team toons (Grav/Rad troller, Spines/DA scrapper, Sonic/Fire blaster all for instance) are pretty much team built but are able to while away the time solo on Rugged without too much difficulty.

You may want to choose a middle ground is want im saying.