Cognito

Irrespective, the dev postings Stateside seem to veiw that any buff/fix to Stalkers should under no circumstance aid PvP stalking. Imi too lazy to post a link, but its out there somewheeeeereeeeee.

EDIT: I know how to not get AS'd, of course. Bearing in mind im not really a PvP'er, I still dont know how you can actuall *kill* a well built (EM or DM) PvP stalker with placate and phase shift 1 on 1 - although I could certainly avoid them indefinately.

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How about, when teamed, a stalker has a 5% chance per team member of Hide not suppressing when they attack a PvE target?

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A reasonable idea IMO.

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Also I think re-hide time in pvp should be reduced, but I am unsure to what number, maybe 6 seconds?

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From what I understand, datamining has shown the last thing stalkers need in PvP is a buff. In fact, the way I read things, this is one of the things that complicates the much needed buff for PvE - any buff must definately not buff PvP and must have a low or minimal buff for solo play.

Aside from my excellent idea of 100% crits from AoE, the whole "Stealth fragility" problem is an argument for my other excellent idea - increased crit chance to held or slept enemies (not stunned).

Please keep plugging my excellent ideas!

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Stalkers do need a PvP buff, no question.

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What?Since when?All stalkers need is a fix of the placate bug PvP wise.

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I meant PvE, as PRAF correctly guessed.

Stalkers do need a PvP buff, no question. However, I think the trick is to make them better in teams. they dont really need and help solo.

My thoughts:

Increase chance of crits from AoE. I would be happy if this was 100%, like ST attacks.

Increase chance of crits from held or slept enemies (not stunned). This gives a great synergy with dominators, and would allow them to do more damage in teams.

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My eyes have boggled at a Energy / Energy Brute with no AoE attacks or taunt who didnt cycle his attacks over different targets and pretended to be a team player. Id take something like a Spines stalker over that muppet any day.



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Brutes aren't something I play, but I can think of plenty of reasons another player would reach such a build. And unless they were trying to present some pretence of capability in aggro management I'd be reticent to leap to what could be a condascending, blinkered, and way off the mark conclusion about team role and "muppets".

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I didnt leap to the conclusion. But bear in mind I was playing an AoE Fire/Dark Corruptor. And I was CONSISTENTLY face planting.

Now even if I had chosen to build a En/En toon with no AoE attacks or taunt and pretend somehow this was a reasonable team build - which I wouldnt have. THE VERY LEAST i would have done was cycle my attacks to take the damage off the poor corruptor who was doing most of the work for the team. And there is no way I would have charged in, aggrod the entire mob, then start poiunding all my single target attacks on one Leitenant leaving the corruptor to mop up everything else.

Trust me, I didnt jump to a conclusion. I gave it 10 mins, then gave up after face planting four or five times and even gently pointing the brute in the right direction.

Condescending/Blinkered/Way of the Mark? No. Everyone has to draw the line somewhere.

I dont call someone a "muppet" just because of their build.

(Incidently the Perma Granite tank without taunt or any AoE attacks and who "forgot" to run mudpots 4 times also gets tarred with this brush I am afraid)

Its not so much the AT, as the build and sets. My eyes have boggled at a Energy / Energy Brute with no AoE attacks or taunt who didnt cycle his attacks over different targets and pretended to be a team player. Id take something like a Spines stalker over that muppet any day.

But the reality is that Stalkers get very few or no AoE. There isnt any way to compensate for this at all. They will underperform in teams, and quite seriously so, as a consequence - as will any toon with only one, or no, AoE powers.

This is of course assuming equal play skill - but skill only compensates for so much hard maths.

For instance, 8 defenders would tear 8 stalkers to pulp and beyond without a shudder. Simple Maths - they all have AoE buffs, heals, attacks and debuffs, the stalkers dont.

I would agree with above, but would suggest you reconsider. Doms play best by mixing ranged attacks vs Dangerous, unmezzed enemies, and melee attacks vs less dangerous / mezzed enemies.

Im a bit of a dom-aholic. They are a difficult AT to play, and have real subtelty and depth to them. Missing out on melee attacks means you wont really mine their intrigue, IMO.

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*Sigh*

A mass of AoE isn't going todo jack squat to the Gunslinger boss thats owning the team with its over kill acc, or the sapper who just drained your aggro holder and now the corrs are under threat because they have been stunned to hell and back Examples above and many others we have all seen and done - the game isn't 'just' AoE = win and theres times when another AT pulls the team out of the fire when the brute has died in seconds. The Stalker isn't often that one because he wasn't invited to begin with. I believe that simply reducing the time it takes to regain Hide status from 10 seconds to 5 is enough to ramp up the damage without it being potentially imbalanced in PvE.Aside from Footstomp and KO Blow, I personally feel the brute is overrated for damage dealing in large teams, particulary if its loaded with other brutes stealing fury from each other.

Fighting AV's is a game wide problem for me and I wish it were more than simply 'spam hold & debuffs' at it but thats another topic

Edit: Essentially if Im on a team with a decent brute (rare on both accounts) then he's helping to keep me alive but I'm also keeping him upright by taking out whatever his set is weakest to. If theres no brute (rare) and its corr heavy then I'm aiming for the mezzers first and taking it from there. I'm _supporting_ the front line fighters like a dominator does with its secondary along with the corrs primary. It matters not that I'm doing 30 damage to 8 critters every ten seconds imho more that I'm taking out that critter than can kill you inside 10 seconds

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Of course, if a team *only* has AoE attacks, that would be true. But that is actually impossible. I imagibe there is a ratio of AoE:ST is high enough it becomes ineficcient, but I have yet to reach it.

Talk of Gunslingers and Sappers... so what? A ST hold will put one out of the action if its a Lt or Minion. If its a boss, it will need too, and one AS wont take it out. And by the time anyones facing Malta, they will normally have at least one ST mez effect.

To stalkers who say "I can take out an annoying [whatever]" FAST. I say so can all my other toons... take it out of action anyway. AND i'm destroying the rest of the mob too.

I was in an all corruptor team a month or two ago, when we all took as many AOE powers from AOE heavy sets as we could. The rate we were blistering through enemies was astounding, and no, the boss fell at the same time as everyone else, because we used all our ST powers on him. A stalker would be unlikely to even reach melee in time to attack on that group (heck, we sometimes couldnt fire off my than a fireball ourselves), much less go through the rigmarole of hide/AS.

This *was* an extreme case, but it was a useful experiment, showing that providing people ST the boss, there isnt reallly a weay to get too much AoE.

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Kinda going over old ground and away from the original point but not really a surprise.

Stalkers are shunned because their initial flaws still havn't been fixed - a placate thats not 100% reliable; an inherient that isn't good; powersets that near cripple player choice to ensure 'typical' PvE ability; player choices for PvP that drive down their value even further in PvE teams. Not to leave out a great deal of players playing Stalkers still to this day think its all about the AS and struggle todo more.

I believe each AT can be played in a variety of ways, the Stalker included and while the Dominator isn't the shunned AT it once was, the Stalker is because its received one rather underwhelming buff to Hide and its flaws and bugs still need addressed. Once thats done, hopefully the Stalker will be welcomed more often by more people.

In the mean time, I'll continue to play my favourite PvE AT and look forward to my fifth level fifty Stalker

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Fixing those bugs wont help much. AVs aside, in Big team PvE this game is all about AoEs which are mathematically far far superior to STs.

Stalkers have the least amount of AoE powers of practically any AT out there.

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Tbh although i love teaming on all my heroes I have found my stalker to be better as a solo'er. I usually get about 1 level an hour (mid teens) which will obviously get slower higher up - but also if I play for an hour before I go to bed (around midnight) I don't feel guilty for ditching my team after a couple of missions!

I think Harlequin will be my 'Antisocial Alt' for when I really can't be bothered talking to people or it is too dark to type with any degree of accuracy lol!

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Probably the best bet!

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I have recently rolled a Nin/Nin Stalker and as my only Villain she is good fun to solo. I am however, more of a team player enjoying the general humour and conversation in teams - not to mention the good xp!

Sadly I have been struggling to find teams for my little stalker and so far she has had to do the past 3 levels all alone Team requests and tells are either ignored or flatly declined - are stalkers really thart hated by the teaming masses or does she just need a bath?

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Stalkers *do* underperform in biggish teams, unquestionably.

However, part of the problem is that most stalkers dont take "team" powers even if they are available.

As a nin/nin stalker you could offset some underperformance issues as you have AoE powers like flashing steel, caltrops, and Blinding Powder.

The problem is partly a viscous circle. Stalkers build to solo, Stalker underperforms in teams, Teams dont want stalkers, Stalkers build to solo.

I think Posi made some recent, oblique post to Phase Shift being changed.

About time.

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Hmmm. Could someone give me an example of a PvP build thats not gimp in PvE?

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There isnt really a PvP build that doesnt perform exceptionally well in PvE.Even with single target builds you are insanely efficient due to high damage high recharge high stamina high hp high accuracy etc etc.

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Taking aside that taking no AoE powers gimps you IMO (especially in late game which is totally dominated by AoE), Arent you still forced (to be PvP viable) into taking highly inefficient powers like phase shift / dual movements / medicine pool etc?

Hmmm. Could someone give me an example of a PvP build thats not gimp in PvE?

It seems to me to be PvP'able you definately need to avoid any AoE attack (which gimps you in PvE), and you need at least some of +perc / stealth / phase shift / Aid self / Dual movement options - which seem, to me, often to be "inefficient" PvE choices at best.

Having no inclincation to gimp myself in PvE, I wonder if anyone can answer this query...

Is there anyway to PvP without gimping yourself in PvE?

And when I say "PvP" i do mean PvPing with a reasonable chance of success.

I have a lvl 14 one languishing around.

Looking at power sets, it looks like an AoE maniac, so its probably best suited to team PvE (which is why I rolled it).

IN particular, the combination of hot feet and thorntrops looked particularly exciting.

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and Psi damage (which all tanks fear)

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Will power is great at taking psi damage, and when dark/ tanks come out, they will be even better! I felt quite safe taunting Malaise and Mother mayhem. Anti-matter however, was naaaasty.

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Yep, forgot about Willpower tanks... mebad.

As you said, Mercs seemed to me provide more control than anyother set - dont judge on damage alone.

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yeah what are you personal opinion listing of the 5, because i started playin a ice but i got told that they are rubbish, and rather not start playin a tank then realise he can do the job as good as others. i always thought that ice was nerfed and weak

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Ice WAS a very gimped set, before scaling defence hit us.

TO compensate, they gave chilling embrace a -damage debuff.

Then they gave us scaling defence.

And they left the debuff in...

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....

Ice Armour is the best Aggro grabber there is, and ive played em all.

Ice Armour is the only armour that actually protects your team from AoE attacks (due to its debuff)

On my Ice tank (lvl 38), who has weave and a +3% def IO, I hit 40% defence to smash/lethal/energy/negative. Which is equal to 80% damage mitigation. This is BEFORE I hit Energy Absorbtion, which puts me into the 90% bracket. I.e. as High as you can get.

My Ice resistance is capped.

The only things I fear are Fire damage (which i have about 20% resistance to and 10% defence too, plus the bonus from energy absorbtion), and Psi damage (which all tanks fear).

Throw in a AoE damage toggle and excellent endurance recovery for fun.

The Ice Man rocketh.

Your mates are probably laughing at the old spectre of Defence before it scaled properly.

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Fire/fire or dual blades/fire would be my recommendations for rather tasty aoe damage.

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More like Spines/Fire

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Id agree there, Spines is FAR in excess of any other primary in terms of AoE damage.

/Fire vs /Dark... I'd guess fire has the edge: Combutsion/Burn/Blazing Aura vs Dark Regen/Dark AoE toggle (fortget its name). But it depends on the whole "Burn/Fear" issue. /Dark can throw a damage proc in CLoak of Fear.

Firstly, dont jusge TA till you have the jewel in the crown: Oil Slick Arrow. Every time you fire this it pings off enough damage to finish minions whilst at the same time giving excellent damage mitigation.

TA also functions much better on teams. Its strength is immense AoE debuffs which cant be detoggled. It simply does better in big groups.

Now, as for Mercs...

Comparing my (now deleted for concept reasons) 33 Merc MM and my 50 Bots MM.

Bots seemed slightly more resiliant, in general.

Bots seemed to do a similar amount of damage, in general (the problem was s/l resistance which could make mercs dip often)

However, Mercs seemed to do more Stun / Debuff effects, particularly AoE ones. And this is comparing them to Bots which have a good amount of these. I strongly suspect that Mercs have the best overall "debuff/mez" ability of any pet.

Medics stimulant and heal where handy

Commando used to run out of endurance a LOT

The Mercs STimulant was ok, compared to the Bots repair power which is poor.


Overall, Id say Bots were better, but only because of the over prepoderance of smash/lethal damage.


I have a lvl 32 Thugs MM. Yes they do more damage, although have less AoE. They have similar survivability, but they have comparitibly very poor mez ability.


Overall, I couldnt say any one of them was "gimped".

For What its Worth: Rad, Dark, Cold, Thermal, Sonic... in that order.

Kinetics has some single target debuffs but is the least debuffery of the lot.

Traps has some debuffs, including the mighty poison trap, but play is quite different. Hard to place.

Storm has some killer debuffs which come at a price: knockback chaos. I wouldnt know where to put it!

Get 7 like minded people. All of you roll corruptors. Set difficulty to relentless.

Any combination will leave others wimpering. But if you want particular speed make sure youare predominantly fire primary, and have at least one kin, a few rads, and a sonic in the mix for secondary (the latter mainly for AoE mez protection)