Cobra_Man
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
Here's the thing, from my perspective. If you left the game over what other people were doing, and you had no access to players who weren't doing that, then I don't think the AE was why you left. It may have been the proverbial straw that broke your back, but I am incredulous that it solely was the reason a bunch of people left.
Is it possible that a bunch of people were hanging on by a thread and what they saw in the AE pushed them over the edge? Yeah, based on other posts in this thread, that might be reasonable. That would make the AE's execution (and the timing thereof) unfortunate, but I think would be a lot less damning of the AE itself.
Quitting a game like CoH over the rash of AE farming if nothing else was bothering you seems extraordinarily shallow and childish, especially knowing that it wasn't as if the devs intended for it to be a PL tool - and they were abundantly clear about that in statement, if not in immediate action. No matter how poorly they executed their punishments and nerfs, I was never unclear about how they wanted the AE used (or not used), and I found ludicrous the people who tried to defend their farming, even though personally had zero problem with them doing it.
Since I choose not to conclude that a significant proportion of our players are shallow and childish (perhaps a poor decision, but one I stand by), I don't accept that this alone explains any exodus.
Uber can you please refrain form the 'shallow' and 'childish' remarks.
I've been nothing but polite in my posts in here.
I stopped playing directly because of MA. Instead of normal, new content we got MA instead. The lack of new content added to the glut of power levelers put me off the game for a long time - and I certainly wasn't alone in feeling that way.
What really annoyed me - and others - is that we warned the devs that MA would be open to abuse before it came out.
Once it was released we again let them know in no uncertain terms that it was being abused and was doing the game irreparable harm.
No one cared and I was essentially shouted down on the forums.
I don't think I can access my posts back to 2009, but believe me I was as angry then about it as I am now.
The most annoying thing is that there was no need for MA in the first place.
What players wanted was new content - zones, enemies, arcs.
Another Fan ..... Not sure what you're on about. The revenue figures tell a story that's hard to ignore.
Not Rhino .... Don't feel sorry me. Feel sorry for all of us, because MA undoubtedly helped to put the game in this position ..... -
Quote:The revenue figures - and my personal experience say otherwise.Originally Posted by Zenlon
I disagree entirely.
MA added a lot to the game. From allowing players to expand their creativity to even drawing attention from major authors IRL.
Much like base editing, collecting and altaholicing - some players found this to be their cup of tea, including me.
It allowed players to enjoy new content and create their own. Not everyone was as excited as others, but, in no way did Mission Architect entirely contribute to the "downfall" of COH.
My opinion.
Those players that used MA as it was intended to be used - such as yourself - aren't what this thread was aimed at.
The problem was that the devs gave far too much scope for abuse with MA - and it most certainly was abused to such an extent that people left the game because of it. -
Quote:These boards are basically living on borrowed time.Originally Posted by American_Knight
So it would not hamper any organized efforts if these boards were taken offline? Unbelievable
We all know that.
The existence of the boards is not necessary for ongoing efforts to salvage something from the situation.
Most people come here to give their observations - some come here to troll and rub salt into wounds. -
Quote:Originally Posted by American_Knight
Given the threats to their business, the advertisements of competitive games and the general negativity being generated on the boards, what reason does this company have to keep these forums going. If they were shut down NOW, any organized attempts at generating a negative ad campaign or boycott would be severely hampered. The few posters - compared to the player base numbers - could try to organize on facebook or someother site, but that would most likely have little success.
So again I ask, why shouldn't this game just pull the plug on these forums - keep the rest of the COH site up but just place a "down for maintenence" sign on the forums?
I know what we could do.
Say nothing.
Don't voice our displeasure at the actions of NCsoft.
We could just roll over and continue to buy NCsoft products as well ... as if nothing had ever happened.
That'll work - right? -
It isn't about wanting people to lose their jobs.
You're over simplifying matters.
It's all about taking the honorable position in the face of an action that is simply wrong.
Buying GW2 sends a message that you don't care how NCsoft has conducted themselves here. -
Quote:As I said earlier.Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Edit: To continue, would i support NCsoft if i liked Guild Wars 2? Yes, I would, and infact have done (2 copies in the house, possibly a 3rd for the family, depends on interest from the little sister...)
Each to their own. -
Quote:I appreciate what you're saying but I need to point out that Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa are not this game, and I had no dealing with either game.Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Well, i can't speak for him, but no, i do not agree outright with the actions of Ncsoft concerning Paragon Studios.
But if i had done what other players *have* suggested, I would have never returned back to City of Heroes after they closed down Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa.
I would have never gotten involved with the EU CoX player meets. Christ, Kallandra and I would have never met in the 1st place.
*shrugs* As you said, each to their own.
But it is amazing what happens though if you don't cut yourself off.
side note: I have to admit that also being friends with several (now) ex-NCsoft staff did help me stay with the game. -
Quote:That surprised me.Originally Posted by TexasLonghorne
Actually the only thing that is really telling and significant for us that are still playing is that free to play made absolutely no difference. We should have seen a boost in Q2 2012 revenue.
I really though that it would have caused a dip in revenue after the initial burst of F2P purchases. -
Quote:You've got the wrong end of the stick here.Originally Posted by American_Knight
IT is this kind of thinking that keeps hate alive. Iranian government bad therefore Iranians are a bad people. The people that spent years of their lives developing GW2 had nothing to do with shutting down our little game yet you want them unemployed for some reason. And the funny thing is you are suppose to be a player of a superHERO game. Very honorable yuor thoughts are.
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Quote:Each to their own.Originally Posted by American_Knight
I am a loyal COH player AND I will give them my money on future games if I like them - like GW 2
I assume then that you agree with the course of action that NCsoft has taken with CoH and Paragon Studios? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
If, and I stress the "if" part, anything done by the game caused the sharp decline, I'm with those who cite lack of new things to do. That burned me out, as well as many on my friends list, most of whose names I haven't seen light up since. While I bought yearly subscriptions, I took longer and longer breaks from the game. I've logged more hours since the Freedom relaunch than the two years prior to it.
However, we all have our own anecdotal tales of what caused people to leave, and they usually are the things that bothered us personally since we tend to gravitate towards people who we have things in common with. Given that none of us know more than the tiniest fraction of total players, if any of those anecdotal reasons are truly responsible, it is sheer coincidence, not insight.
I personally believe that the AE was a great idea, badly implemented so that it harmed the game in that putting out the Architect Edition brought new blood into the game, who then thought the game was PL to 50 and have nothing to do so they left. Of course, it is also very possible that those people would never have stayed since they clearly thought PLing to max level is what you do in a game to get to the end game raids. I find it ludicrous to believe, especially after the ED uprorar and the I13 PvP squabble players left in droves over PLing in AE. UberGuy has the most logical explanation.
You've touched on of the reasons that caused many people to leave - lack on new stuff to do.
The problem was that the new stuff was MA. The devs thought they were giving us the ultimate tool to make new stuff, when what they actually gave us was a power levelers dream ticket.
The two are definitely linked - MA and lack of new content at that time. -
Quote:Do you have a source for the CoH2 project?Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
There were three different 'secret projects'. The first was CoH2, but the higher ups in NC shot down the project (that may of happened before the Devs ever mentioned a secret project). The next I can't recall at all (it also folded, again can't recall why)... and the third was apparently a Unity-based game. There was an article posted on the boards recently about it, was fairly interesting... assuming any of it was actually true.
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Quote:I won't be putting any cash to NCsoft ever again - if they choose to hang on to the game IP.Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Me either.
I'm open to reconsidering that position should NCsoft do the right thing. -
A few decent points have been made in this thread, although I would have to say I didn't start this thread looking for 'blame' - or anything like it.
I just vividly remember thinking that MA could cause this game a great deal of damage - once I realized exactly what it was capable of.
I know of several long time players who were dismayed at the abuse MA allowed - who did stop playing. I myself took an extended break from the game entirely due to the introduction of MA.
It was nothing to do with recession and everything to do with being disillusioned by the influx of newbie level 50's who had no idea how to get to Peregrine Island - or even the Hollows for that matter.
It's academic now in light of what's happened, but it would be intriguing to see what would have happened to the revenue figures had MA not been dropped on us back then.
It may not have killed CoH directly, but I'm damn sure that it certainly did the game no favors whatsoever and reduced the games ability to survive. -
Quote:+3Originally Posted by Dauphine
+2
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I've been trying to figure out what caused the decline in revenue of our game in 2009. The start of the second quarter heralded a sharp decline in revenue - according to the chart below.
The only obvious reason that I can see is the introduction of MA.
I know that I was extremely unhappy with MA when it was introduced (and I made that clear in forum posts), as it made it ridiculously easy for anyone to achieve level 50 in a matter of hours - and continues to this day to be a place where power levelers are happily operating.
I'll go out on a limb here and say that MA pretty much broke the game for a great number of people - and contributed directly to the situation that we're in right now.
Am I right, or do the figures point to some other reason for the drop?
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My take on the best case scenario is this;
1. First and foremost have the CoH IP secured by a new company.
2. Secure the playerbase that we still have, and perhaps evaluate F2P versus subscription only to determine what's best financially for the new company - and start marketing this game properly.
3. Carry on as before - in the short term, but shift staffing and design emphasis to the future (see point 4 ... )
4. Start work on a replacement for CoH - lets call it CoH2. This is absolutely vital. As much as we all love CoH as it is, it is an old game and it's starting to show. Even the most ardent fan knows that no game has an infinite life and CoH is rather long in the tooth these days.
5. Once CoH2 is ready (and before that) really push the marketing campaign out there. The Superhero genre has a mass appeal, but people need to know about this game - or rather it's replacement.
So .... that's my take on it.
If this game is saved - CoH2 is the only way forward IMHO -
Bring Statesman and Sister Psyche back.
I mean look what's happened with them gone ...... -
Quote:Ok, first off in early 2011 the planet was in the grip of a recession. Economic forecasts were pretty much all of the theme of 'it isn't going to get any better soon'.Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
In order to know what sort of state their finances would be in in Autumn 2012 when they began localisation work (in Seattle) on Blade and Soul in early 2011, they'd have to be psychic, not just 'not stupid'.
If you look over the earnings statements of that time, they were still expecting Guild Wars 2 to launch by the end of 2011.
Once again: blaming Blade and Soul's launch for the closure of City of Heroes is just plain wrong.
Like every other company (never mind gaming company) they would expect to have less income due to people either unsubscribing or simply not buying their product - due to said recession.
NCsoft will have seen this coming, so they wouldn't have to be psychic - as you put it - just professional.
So .. here we are - still in a recession.
You believe what you want to.
I'll go with the duck theory. -
The people at NCsoft aren't stupid.
That's what I'm saying .......
It's also the reason that they are highly unlikely to let go of the CoH ip. -
Quote:NCsoft West is the western arm of NCsoft, based in ...Seattle?Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
Of course I do. Such advance planning is entirely at odds with the suddenness of the closure of Paragon and the cancellation of CoH. That's why it's ridiculous to think that it was somehow planned to coincide with Blade & Soul's Western launch. Obviously I don't like the decision to cancel CoH any more than anyone else and I'll protest it every step of the way, but claiming it's down to Blade and Soul is just wrong.
A question for you: do you fully understand the distinction between NCsoft and NCsoft West?
Essentially they market NCsoft products in the west. -
Quote:Do you seriously believe that a company of the magnitude of Ncsoft will not plan well ahead and make decisions that will impact well into the future?Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
Do you seriously think NCsoft were planning in advance to cancel CoH and close down Paragon when localisation work began on Blade and Soul more than a year and a half ago?
In answer to your question.....
Yes I do. -
Quote:It's transparently obvious what NCsoft have in mind here.Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
No, it's not. You're mistaking the announcement of Blade & Soul as the beginning of a process. It's the opposite. NC West has been working on bringing Blade & Soul to the West for years at this point. They are finally ready to announce it.
1. They want to put their BS (their term not mine) out to the western market.
2. They want to be able to finance the roll out and budget for it accordingly, which makes sense.
3. They would like to have a ready made playerbase that already play other NCsoft games in the west ...... oh, hang on ... they have that already with the 100k - 150k CoH playerbase.
4. Axe CoH. Call it realignment.
5. Introduce BS to the western market.
6. Every single ex CoH player will subscribe to BS, because - hey it's an NCsoft game, and they make great games like CoH was ...right?
Right?
That was still civil, wasn't it? -
I can be civil.
If NCsoft allow the CoH ip to move on to a company that will continue to develop it, I may consider buying other NCsoft games.
If they don't ... well I won't be having any more dealings with them.
That was quite civil, wasn't it? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Xzero45
And no, MA was just as much a nail in the coffin as demon farms, pre-ED herding, DFB farming, and Magisterium farms. As in it actually didn't hurt the game much at all. I don't see how it could have killed the game at all, tbh, considering regular content was still being released and people still regularly ran it. But go ahead and use it as your scapegoat if it makes you feel better.
I feel fine about it to be honest, but there's no doubt in my mind that AE was one of the things that really damaged this game - far more than Demon farms etc ever could.
Perhaps 'nail in the coffin' was a tad over dramatic, but AE really did the game no favours whatsoever.
Just don't get me started on Incarnate trials, or the removal of Statesman from the game
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