Clouded

So you admit it! KB is effective at moving things around!!

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Anyone else tired of this argument?

You can avoid the hoops...run the TFs as designed.

Hmmm, guess they should fix that exploit then.

Seriously, I would probably solo a TF here/there but I really don't see a need for this or an argument against it.

I was just trying to get some logic as to why, and more than "because it's dumb, idiotic, etc."

You have to be in Melee range, and allowing a boss to get that close is a poor tactic for most squishy ATs using KB. Using range attacks with KB is the best tactic since it gives the player the best advantage and provides better mitigation than KD due to ragdoll.

This is basic gaming 101 stuff here EG, it saddens me I have to explain this...

KO Blow contains a Mag 3 Hold though.

I love pratically draining mobs of their endurance using PS and LF while making myself an never-ending-attacking-machine-of-infinite-blue-bar DOOM.

I doubt they'll put this much work into the outcome. I hope I'm wrong but I see a hand-wavy time deal that still gives the CoV ATs their specific Patron Power selections.

Um...replenishing endurance is not the only use.

ARE YOU MAD?!?!?!?!?!?

Take Powersink.

Oops, your bias is showing.

When I can consistently juggle a boss on my Blaster using KB powers. I have just proven KB to be effective at mitigation.

The above example is basic common knowledge known by ANYONE playing this game and doesn't have such a myopic outlook on KB.

I hate to break it to you, but Power Thrust + Total Focus + ST blasts will work faster and provide better mitigation. This is a little trick I've used for a long time. While PT animates you can cue TF and have it activate after you have KBed the critter away.

Power Push is an exceptionally strong ST blast now. Why should I use an inferior attack on an AT designed for damage output?

I wish you would stop stating this as fact when many of us have proven you wrong.

When my Energy/Energy Blaster uses Power Thrust or my Mind/energ Dom uses Power Push on a Boss to keep himself safe, that's not for fun. It's for mitigation, and the mitigation is more effective at keeping mobs not attacking then any other secondary effect.

On CoH and on teams, my blaster does not need to use such specialized powers as frequently but they do come in handy when the silly scrapper aggros another mob or the herding tanks aggros more than their cap worth.

On CoV, even on teams, my dom gets plenty use out of KB. I imagine this is due to the solo-nature of the ATs on the redside and lack of the traditional tank role (since most brutes play like scrappers).

Sorry I've taken so long to respond. Contrary to what UberGuy said, EM/ELA Brutes were soloing AVs prior to the existence of Inventions on Live servers.

You're nuts.

ET on a 1 sec animation was what made EM the AV-soloer of choice for Brutes.

I'm not arguing that EM is an all around good set. I know it's lackluster having a 44 Tank and 50 Brute. However, it's ST damage is fine for the most part (compared in a vacuum )

I found EM to be a decent Tank set but not very effective for Brutes. On my tank, I synergized the secondary with Dark to get use out of Oppressive Gloom + EM's stunning capability. With Death Shroud, holding aggro was very easy and I'd pop a Wh hands when recharged to stun a few more minions, etc when stacked with OG. I could keep 5-10 critters stunned at any given time (including bosses) if WH chance for stun played in my favor.

So, EM is good for crowd control when paired with Dark Armor but I have a hard time finding other situations to boast about this set.

Overall, I'd give a EM a 5/10 and I don't plan to play it ever again unless serious changes are made or possibly to try it out once proliferated to Scrappers.

Let me put this so you can understand since you seem to be trying to bait people into spats rather than actual discussions.

Your position of changing KB to KD at the choice of the player using the secondary effect is a fair suggestion. However, when you are met with opposing view points that provide reason and logic in counter you begin a petulant child act as if that's going to be effective in changing anyone's opinion.

Your whole basis for changing KB is because you feel it provides no added benefit over KD. This is factual wrong and has been stated numerous times. Your other reasons are purely selfish due to the possiblity of exp/min loss or having to move your character a few paces.

I have no issues with people suggesting ways to improve the game, but allowing players to actively change their KB to KD might cause an even greater rift in this already pointless debate.

The next threads would be about KB-ers that refuse to utilize the KD option, and a differnt but similar witch hunt would begin.

By the way, this is a great way to pass the work day.

If you are including Rage then be sure to include BU in your calculations for attack chains.

There's one important factor you are forgetting; damage type. The most resisted damage type is Lethal followed by Smashing, and bringing up the rear is Energy. Most people seem to forget this simple fact that plays a huge roll in outright damage for Energy Melee.

AoE Damage is poor? Yes.

Mitigation is ok, but nothing to offset the poor AoE? Yes.

EM doesn't do ST well? Incorrect.

Hmmm, I do like this train of thought.

I like how you continue to prove my point(s) and I don't mind that you tarnish your name even further. Nice job.

Any if they don't change to KD should those players still worry about getting kicked from teams?

Like I said, the anti-KBers are the ones causing most of the todo about this and just need to get over themselves.

Energy Punch and Bonesmasher are both suitable ST attacks for any Brute, and then you add 1-2 heavy hitter to round out the set. Most Brutes go with the fighting pool giving them Boxing. So, Boxing + EP + BS + ET or TF. That's hardly gimp worthy for ST.

Let me phrase this differently, what ST attacks do you take on SS? How is Jab (or Punch) + Haymaker + KO Blow any different?

And yes, the AOE damage for EM is poor.

Why is it frustrating? Because it's different from the normal Huddle + AOE garbage that fills this game? Why is it so bad to have a little bit of chaos in such a mundane enviorment?

Pro-KBers and Anti-KBers will NEVER see eye-to-eye on this matter. No matter how many times this is brought up and discussed. Instead, each side will create dramatic examples of how KB is beneficial/determental to the team in a variety of circumstance. It's a no win situation and debate.

KB is in this game because it represents the power of a super hero and is an effective tool for mitigation as a secondary effect. Changing it to KD would benefit those who feel exp/min is the best way to play this game, and I have yet to see any information that dictates this group to be in the majority.

I loathe the idea of KB being changed to suit the playstyle of the efficiency experts that are too concerned with their huddle being broken up.

I Brute ALOT and I use KB ALOT. I know both sides of the coin and I've come to realize those that wish to change KB are more stubborn and more selfish than those that enjoy using KB for enjoyment. Do you ever here of people being kicked from teams for NOT using their KB powers? Do you ever here people saying "KB powers only please?" No, instead you here constant stories of "No KB please" and players being kicked for their KB use.

I've even been irritated by the use of KB when it was employed INCORRECTLY (though I've instructed the player rather then scold them), which brings us full circle to the main problem with Knockback in this game...

...INEXPERIENCE OR POOR USE OF KNOCKBACK. There is nothing wrong with the mechanic of KB, only the person utilizing the effect.

I think that sums up my feelings nicely.