Clan_Jericho

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Hmmm. So, your sustainable damage as a kin/sonic defender - that is, your personal sustainable damage - is within a hair's breadth of the blasters. And this is before level 32 and Fulcrum Shift... Hmmmmmmmm.

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Specious conclusion. Your premise includes two (2) siphon powers at all times. That means your attack chain is roughly half as efficient as the blaster's...because you need to toss a SP in there throughout your chain to keep yourself doubled.

The rest of your thesis suffers from similar logic errors...but then most class v class comparisons do tend to ignore the little details in order to stretch to cover the premise in order to do a little nerf herding.

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I wasn't ignoring any details. Note that I didn't intimate parity - I merely pointed out that your damage scale was within a hair's breadth. My conclusion for post-32 damage is much more final, and it is supportable.

First of all, a single Fulcrum Shift takes you to the cap. No real diminution of attack chain for that. The sonic debuffs are automatic to the attacks, so no time lost to those. Siphon Speed need only be cast once every 60 seconds to maintain (though stacking it is a good idea). Also, my end thesis includes the fact that Siphon Speed makes the Defender's attack chain much more efficient than that of the blaster - which is to say, your high-BI attacks will comprise a greater portion of the attack chain.

If you're going to call me illogical, back it up by pointing out specific fallacies. If you don't then you're simply trolling.

~Gabriel

Ok, some of you will already know this. No doubt you figured it out on your own. This isn't for you. This is for those who aren't numbers people.

So, why should you build a kinetics/sonics defender?

Kinetics is an awesome primary. It has a lot of utility: two built-in travel powers that totally negate the need to take a travel pool; a self-speed buff that lets you nearly perma-Hasten; and a bunch of team and personal buffs that put everyone at the damage cap. But it's the offensive buffs that I'm going to talk about.

Sonics is generally panned for its lousy sound fx. True, they're horrible. However, it has one thing going for it: damage resistance debuffs built into every attack. Because you're a defender, the damage resistance debuffs will be more effective for you than for a sonics blaster. What this means, in short, is that every one of your blasts will increase the damage of any subsequent hits to that(or those) enemy(-ies) by 15% for a short while - about 7 seconds, I'd say.

So, the numbers. You're a defender, so your damage scale is 0.65 in comparison to the blaster's 1.00. Let's compare our prospective kin/sonic to an electric blaster AFTER buffs/debuffs are accounted for.

You're at 0.65. The multiplier starts out at 1.95 to account for 3-slotted damage. Now let's pad our test by assuming that Siphon Power is only being applied twice - which is easy to achieve after you get Siphon Speed at level 6. That puts you at 2.45. Let's also estimate low and say that on average you'll only get a single application of your -res debuffs - where in reality it's not too hard to stack. So any damage you do is increased by 15%.

The blaster is at 1.00. Our multiplier starts at 1.95...and ends at 1.95. Don't worry, I'll account for Build-Up and Aim later.

So, for the kin/sonic: 0.65 x 2.45 x 1.15 = 1.831
For the blaster: 1.00 x 1.95 = 1.95

Hmmm. So, your sustainable damage as a kin/sonic defender - that is, your personal sustainable damage - is within a hair's breadth of the blasters. And this is before level 32 and Fulcrum Shift... Hmmmmmmmm.

Now, let's give blasters their fair chance. Let's include burst damage.

Defender: 0.65 x 2.95 x 1.5 = 2.205
Blaster: 1.00 x 3.5745 = 3.575

So, the blaster can outdamage you when he needs to. Good, because he's about to get trounced.

Let's calculate for the best-case, high-level scenario for both ATs. This means Fulcrum Shift, Aim, and stacked debuffs for the Defender, and...well, just Aim and Build-Up for the Blaster.

Defender: 0.65 x 4.00 x 1.3 = 3.38
Blaster: 1.00 x 3.575 = 3.575

.... Yes, you're reading that correctly. You'll be doing, sustainably, the same damage that the Blaster can only do with both Aim and Build-Up; both of which are only up about 1/4 of the time.

Now, I haven't taken into account many factors. I have not factored in Siphon Speed. I have not factored in the two extra powers gained by not needing to take a travel pool. I have not calculated the benefit to your team of Speed Boost, Siphon Power, Transfusion, Transference, and Fulcrum Shift. That those powers can easily double the damage output of a team is a matter of statistical fact, and I have not accounted for them. I have only addressed your personal damage potential.

So. You should go roll a Kinetics/Sonics defender. Your damage will rival that of a blaster, and ultimately surpass it. Your buffs, debuffs, heals, and movement powers will make you an unequaled boon to any team you join.

Do it soon, because the devs are probably going to nerf us.

~Gabriel

Disclaimer: I have not mentioned that blaster have those wonderful melee attacks. Before you go claiming that those will allow the blaster to ultimately outdamage the defender, let me remind you that the Kinetics/Sonics defender is always operating at 100% potential, where a blaster is only able to boost himself above 1.95 twice every 45 seconds. Even with the additional attacks, the blaster will be outpaced. Also, remember that blasters have no defense to speak of. Kinetics defenders have heal, debuff, and endurance recovery powers.

Castle, I really don't think you'll ever know how much I (and others) appreciate you. You're our own little CoX messiah...you do know that, right?

~Gabriel

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BTW Stun is by far the worse power in that regard. DPS isn't everything in a power. TF is a Mag 4 10 second Disorient. With the right slotting, you can chain stun a Boss, in addition to the massive damage.

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Stun isn't really a damage power. It's a hold. I didn't line it up with the others for a reason.

~Gabriel

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I love Barrage.
Fast power.
Good DPS.
Great animation.

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Barrage is horrible DPS. What kind of evil crack are you smoking?

Even within its own set it's horrid. Look at these numbers:

Barrage: 1.41 BI per second
Energy Punch: 4.87 BI per second
Bonesmasher: 3.04 BI per second
Energy Transfer: 12.6 BI per second
Total Focus: 2.99 BI per second

It's the worst DPS in the set by far. The next-worst power is Total Focus, which is still over twice the DPS of Barrage.

~Gabriel

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Although I think of the Envoy of Shadows and Baphomet with a boosted Healing Flames and worry just a little.

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Well, remember the old Statesman Standby: strength in numbers.

Or, in other words, bring more friends.

~Gabriel

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That makes me wonder: What would happen if you hit someone with a taunt then immediately placated them afterwards?

Looks like I have a new project

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Doesn't work anymore. I abused it completely in our PvP testing and was nearly lynched. Now, whichever is the most recently cast takes precedence.

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I'd just like to say...I love you, Castle.

;;

~Gabriel

Haha, has anybody else noticed that there are forum members that have 100 times as many posts as War-Witch?



~Gabriel

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this really makes me want to go and just fight the NPC spawns now!

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Yeah, me too. Weird how that works.

Personally, I think Arachnos is gonna win any protracted match above level 25. Why? They stack more buffs and debuffs than Longbow does. Wardens and Ballistae are individually tougher than any Arachnos, but with buffs and debuffs the Arachnos minions overwhelm the Longbow peons.

~Gabriel

P.S. I -need- to go smack some Longbow around.

Nooo!

Thanks, and good luck on your next assignment.

~Gabriel

G'bye, Awry. Many thanks for the time you've spent with us.

~Gabriel ;;

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2. We'll be putting in a check that prevents "one shotting"; if anything occurs within a fraction of second that brings a player from 100% Hit Points down to 0, we instead give the player 1% Hit Points.

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Surely you're joking, Mr. Feyn - er, Statesman. If you think for even a moment that this addresses the heart of the problem with one-shotting (which is the psychological impact on the player), then you are woefully disconnected from your playerbase.

~Gabriel

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Castle challanged Chuck Norris to a duel - He WON!

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I met Chuck Norris once.

Once.

(Thanks, folks!)

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There were no survivors.

~Gabriel

I have to admit that you've made me ashamed of myself for posting that in the first place, Castle. I didn't mean for it to come out quite so high-handed. I'm sorry I dragooned you into that.

~Gabriel

I agree with DrObvious. While I am frankly horrified at the insight you've provided us into your decisionmaking processes, I do appreciate that you've taken the effort to do so. In the past we've simply been confused as to why decisions were being made; now we can be certain and depressed.



This is the most disheartening developer post I've ever seen. The lack of an apology, even while addressing the issue of a lack of an apology to the defenders who tested Enervating Field, is an appalling absence of manners. Explaining why you made a mistake does not excuse the fact that you flat out told prominent members of the community that they were lying. A simple "we're sorry we treated you poorly" would go a long way, and would cost you nothing - but it will probably never be voiced.

The doublespeak continues unabated.

~Gabriel

You speak as though groups of heroes weren't intended to be brokenly powerful. Given that the contribution of a defender increases dramatically with the addition of each new teammate, it is already -easy- to achieve virtual immortality on a team.

Will Maneuvers suddenly become a good power choice? Yeah. Will it be more broken than Accelerate Metabolism, or the two RAs, or the shields of the sonics primary for defenders?

Not really. Remember that super-ness is OK in CoH only so long as it happens when you're on a team.

~Gabriel

You know, this only looks like a buff to Tankers, Defenders and Scrappers. In reality this is also an enormous buff to Blasters and Controllers, both of whom are now going to be able to use the (admittedly few) defensive power-pools to great effect.

If all defense starts scaling then CJ will provide a true 5% damage mitigation. Stacking with Hover and Weave that becomes a rather impressive 15% across-the-board damage mitigation. Stacked with the personal defensive powers available from secondaries, this is rather considerable.

Just something to think about.

~Gabriel

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Rise from your grave!

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Holy moly, is that an Altered Beast quote?

~Gabriel

We shouldn't be penalized for the Devs' fuzzy thinking. If they can't make each AT appealing without withholding powersets from them, I really think they should address the problem directly.

~Gabriel