Cavatina

Originally Posted by Nethergoat

I've got that one in the Goat's Rain of Fire.

Super fun- the more the merrier!

Originally Posted by Hugginator

The_Alt_oholic, is bang on the point.

Most PL'rs and Farmers are too short sighted, they can't see the forest for the trees. Its a self destructing pattern of short term thinking and greed.
(yes there are exceptions and caveats, but the overarching concept is true)

The truth, as Alt and others have tried to explain, is that the trivialization of the game is dangerous long term.

Maybe the devs want to push the subscribers to more of a churn rate subscription type where people play for a month or 2 and move on, away from the previous type where people generally subscribed longer term, if so they should let us know asap.

But I doubt it, its more likely they are busy elsewhere and maybe they are even clueless about the damage this thing is causing. It could even be they are trying to figure out how to close pandoras box, but I doubt that as well.

Whatever it is, pretending that you and others are somehow 'explaining' away the points that Alt and others have made isn't working.
All 'you' have done is present another opinion, and in my opinion they have been generally myopic.

Maybe some of the points have value or are even correct in a vacuum, but against the bigger picture they don't carry much weight.

Originally Posted by JohnX

People are only poor relative to the super elite stuff...which is bid up as a result of RMT created and purchased inf. All the extra inf purchased from the RMTs that is spent on the elite stuff does get spread out on lower demand items thus raising costs of everything, but supply is appears generally adequate to keep inflation under control for most common items..

The flippers and ebil marketeers ARE contributing to price increases as they are creating the motive for people to use RMTs. All accused are guilty to contributing to any perceived problems in the market. The statements made by the self proclaimed ebils demonstrates a lack of accountabilty. Nonetheless, the current system allow Ebil marketering, so it's not really their fault. Where the opportunity exists, there will be profit.

Originally Posted by UberGuy

Truth. After ignoring the crafting badges for a long, long time, I got off my virtual duff and am going for Field Crafter on my hero badger. I had a nice stockpile of mid-level common salvage saved up, and used it to get going. Of course, I eventually ran out and had to start getting more. I chose the market as my source.

In general, I have been buying salvage anywhere from 50% to 10% of its peak price. I have seen things going for 100k apiece and gotten a stack of 10 of them for 10k apiece. I've been buying recipes for somthing like 10% to 50% of their purchase price at a crafting table.

On the flip side, I have been selling my crafted IOs for 200% to 300% of the non-outlier minimum prices I've seen. I just leave them up for a few hours or overnight and they all sell.

So here I am doing this thing that, once upon a time, made my teeth itch just looking at the raw crafting costs, and I'm making money off of doing it.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat

So, as I've mentioned a few times I have this experimental stalker I've played to 30 in "casual gamer" style, the goal being to see how much inf someone could earn playing inefficiently and selling drops.

I logged him in last night to move him to another day job spot and checked his market slots.

Uh oh. That stack of lowball bids I made on Gift of the Ancients + runspeed IOs had some winners.

(as often as I disparage silly RP logic around here, it's slightly embarrassing to admit that I 'RP' this stalker as being a normal guy with a sword & no superpowers- so, no travel power. He just runs everywhere. Thus his thirst for the +runspeeds)

Opening the price window was like cracking the door to Bluebeard's Closet- I knew I shouldn't, but I couldn't help myself.

The 'last 5' were in the 10,000,000 inf range.

The little Marketeer with the horns and barbed tail on my right shoulder was hopping up and down screaming FLIP THEM! FLIP THEM! And while you're at it, respec out of the ones you've already slotted and SELL THOSE TOO!

Simultaneously the little RPer in the white robe with the wings on my left shoulder was calmly saying Now, you know the rules- you made them up! No marketeering, no flipping, just selling drops!

Grrrrrrrrrr!
>:

Originally Posted by Space_Goat

Sellers already face steep monetary and opportunity costs for overpricing their wares. i don't think a proposed 60-day erasement penalty is needed.

Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino

i don't think even 100 million is enough to qualify as 'rich' nowadays, but that's the point at which I begin feeling that I don't have to worry about money. It's a big enough cushion that I can take a bunch out of it to give another character some starting cash, or buy another of my characters some enhancements, and not feel like I'm running myself dry. Since I don't buy the sort of enhancements that cost 5+ mil each, it's a relatively comfortable cushion.

On the other hand, if I'm not worrying about giving money to other characters, I stop worrying once they've got 10-20 million or so, because that's enough to keep them personally in enhancements their entire career given that I frankenslot by default.

If you wanted to be considered actually rich, I don't think even 1 bil is enough anymore - you can blow that entire amount on a single PvP IO. I actually don't think it's possible anymore for a single character to carry enough inf to be considered rich. The amount is probably somewhere in the 10 billion range.

Originally Posted by MsMisery

I find myself poor often I agree I make plenty under normal conditions. however the bm lately is far from normal and requires immediate dev intervention they should flood the market with everything to kill the farmers that have the billions and keep buying then flipping salvage at rediculous prices like ... 1,000,000 for a hydraulic piston hello?!? I can understand a panacea recipe +hitpoints +end costing a lot because of its rareness but 500 million?!? nothing in game should cost that much.

we need intervention please

or if not please make the bm zones PvP'able and show the names of those hiking the prices so I may at least be the hand of justice and retribution

Originally Posted by Pheonyx

If an item has not sold after 60 days, it is nuked from the system. Unless you pulled them on day 59 and relisted them, they would have been gone. If you did pull/relist them, then you couldn't have "forgot" about them.

If the said items did stay longer than 60 days, then this is obviously a bug in the market system and should be /bug reported.

Ashes to ashes,
Pheonyx

Originally Posted by DumpleBerry

I can talk red-side. I've bought an entire set and a half of purple IOs for less than 100M each. And I'm not talking crap ones, either.

Time is just as important a currency in the market as inf. is.

As has been said--if you elect to purchase something for 250M instead of 75M and 24 hours, that's your own choice and not something anyone here is likely to over-sympathize with.

Originally Posted by TheSwamper

Clarification: this post is not in any way a complaint about current prices, the market, ebil flippers, waa-waa I'm poor, etc. I think everything is just fine the way it is.

I'm simply looking for opinions. With the steadily increasing prices I see on the market, how much do you have to have to be considered rich? Let's face it, 10 million won't buy you what it used to.

My opinion: if you're at the point where you ready to start tuning up your toon, showing off some bling, or you just like a big fat (wallet) bulge in your spandex, you need to be approaching 10 figures.

Again, I don't feel that's good or bad, just where things are about now.

Originally Posted by AlienOne

Again, as I quoted in my original post before (and as I'm stating again here), I'm not a poor person. I never meant to imply that. If I need some money, I'll grind for it, and usually have entirely more than I need within a couple days. On top of that, the original statement WAS (and yes, again, still IS) that I made 50 on a Brute during double xp weekend. I didn't say that I spent all that same day.

My complaint was, and still is, the fact that AE is causing a general spike in prices from before AE. Remember, I posted that I tried to get those things a week after double xp weekend. The prices had already dropped in a huge way since the double xp weekend spike. The point is, they're still high. For any of you who have been around for at least longer than how long AE has been around, you'll know that Obliteration average prices are HIGHER than what purple sets went for before AE!

I'm sure most responses (based on the "you're the problem" "no, YOU'RE to blame" "Whatever you say is PHAIL"-type statements) in this thread will amount to more poo-flinging and fewer actual solutions, so I'll go ahead and bow out to your "superior knowledge" of economics.

"The One"

Originally Posted by AlienOne

Not sure exactly what you mean here... Are you implying that leveling up a character during double xp weekend isn't "the right thing to do?" That wanting to set out a lvl 50 Brute is an automatic "fail?" Still trying to figure that statement out...

"The One"

Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork

I'd like to see a Double Drop-Rate Weekend sometime. With no bonus XP.
*smirk*

Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail

Ok, I am usually the first one to say that we should remove AE or limit the feature... but this morning I tried to do a mission, the one about croatoa and lil rose? Well I found that I did not get any XP for it, I was so happy to just do missions in croatoa and croatoa themes that I didnt care about the XP...why do I have to ge XP for running a simulation again its like earning driving credit towards your drivers license by playing mario kart!

Everyone on the other anti-AE thread says that the devs intended this to be an alternative to leveling...but I thought the purpose of AE/MA was to have users craft stories?


What if the devs allowed us to decide whether we would get XP for not? If the devs coded option to allow XP and to disable XP for those missions?

Originally Posted by Nethergoat

With a genius plan like that, I don't see how anything could go wrong.

Originally Posted by Ahmon

I did not realize that blue market was that bad. Makes me less inclined to switch sides if they don't mix markets in GR!

Originally Posted by Miss_DeStalker

1. Capped the XP to the same or as less as 'normal' missions,
2. Removed auto SK,
3. Limited the spawn sizes and amount of bosses per map?
4. Finally, Made maps only available to zones of that lvl?

Would be interesting to hear you answers on this!

Thanks

Originally Posted by Nericus

Or dare I say that a reevaluation of certain badge requirements is not out of the question?

Dropping the zero from Empath was a great start. However it can still only really be obtained via the Arena, just a lot less Arena time.

Damage badge 3 and above (especially Immortal) are best obtained to only obtained via AFK farming.

The money badges: only via normal game play, transfers and marketing do not apply nor does money from AE mishes/farms/arcs. Yet the requirements for money badges 5 and 6 (Popular, Leader) do raise a question of their accuracy. 1 billion and 2 billion respectively.

Also there are some of the KILL X-AMOUNT badges that some question the requirements of: ie: Illusionists, Rikti Monkies to name a couple.

Originally Posted by RagManX

Ur d0ing it rong!

I bought a level 26 Miracle +recovery crafted IO for 17 million in the past week or two. If you spent the 100 million it typically goes for, then you are the problem, not the seller. Why are you in such a hurry to get every IO you want? If you were to take your time to IO your character, you could do it for 30-60% off what you just spent.

RagManX

Originally Posted by Xanatos_NA

Guys can you stop killstealing me please. I'm trying to farm Epic_ for a Forum IO.

He hasn't even slotted for logic defense! I keep hitting him.

Originally Posted by Cardiff_Giant

Finally, something I can agree with you on - the GM's have always been great in this game.
Any & every time I've actually had the need to interact with the GM's over the years, they've been great - althogher it hasn't really been all that often - which is just one more good thing...

Originally Posted by AgentMountaineer

Tried hard to make cash? Hmmm, I seem to recall you bragging about selling a handfull of PvP IOs for just a little more than the OP over 2XP weekend. I am quite sure that in order to reach this level of influence gain, you didn't just list those IOs (were they just the recipes or did you craft them first?) for 1 influence. I don't know all the numbers involved in generating PvP IOs, but I know they don't just rain from the sky either. One could easily make the argument that you worked just as hard to make some cash as the OP, you just took different routes to get there.


Are you serious with this bit of rant, or are you just trolling? Again going back to your boast of selling a bunch of PvP IOs for almost 5 bil in inf, how is this not just as "exploitative" as what the OP did? You 'farmed' innocent PvPers just to generate some drops and then listed them at the 'going rates' and made some very good profits. Your own greed certainly didn't seem to get in the way of making as much as you could for your time spent 'playing the game'.


I don't know what is inspiring this statement; but if nobody's buying the warez of the OP, who is going to be buying yours? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.


I almost want to think you haven't been paying attention for the last several issues. Issue 13 was the first market nerf when pool c recipes no longer dropped from TF completion and boss kills. Issue 14 was another nerf on common and uncommon salvage. Then there was further nerfage when the ticket cap was implemented. Not to mention the nerfage of PvP IOs. All of these have resulted in a decrease in supply, which is what leads to an increase in price, not the greed of ebil marketeers. We are usually more than willing to help others learn how to make just as much influence as we do on these very boards. The asking price for this knowledge is simply that they be willing to make a little bit of effort to learn how to use the market and then sacrifice a little bit of play time on the market. It doesn't require nearly as much time 'not playing the game as intended' as you would make it sound.


Yeah, insulting the devs is sure to gain you a lot of points. It's bad enough that you come on this forum with your little tirades, but you have to go a step lower and blame the very people who brought you this game for your woes. Pure childishness!