Cavatina

[ QUOTE ]
Run a Katie on a non optimized team and watch the team wipes accumulate. Srsly. At level 34, taking down 10 AVs, the last +3, can be a real challenge. Lots of us are spoiled, making sure we have Rads or Emps on that TF, but it can be a real pain. We had a worse time running Katie TF with all tanks than we did running States TF with all tanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

UH..to be fair..You dont need an optimal team. You just need a team with varied powersets and at least a few support toons. some of my cleanest katie runs involved cold and trick arrow defenders galore with nary a rad or emp in sight.

[ QUOTE ]
Forming your own team doesn't work unless it's peak hours and you get very very lucky. Or happen to be in one of the 4 or so SGs that have enough people and theme to support doing non-farms.

People who think that it isn't 95% AE farming now are fricken retards. I'd rather they jump in front of a car then continue to post their iraqi information minister bullsh!t.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play rarely at peak hours. I rarely have problems finding teams when i want one. Usually during primetime I'm busy roleplaying.

Not to mention, not every server has an atlas crowded with people all hours of the day and if you think they do, you're somewhat deluded and narrow-visioned yourself. You're on virtue. Its a server with lots of people. therefore theres proportionally more farmers. It doesnt mean they all fram all the time. I play on Infinity. its lower pop. the farm proportion is therefore smaller.

Perhaps its not that everyones farming, perhaps its that the vast majority of the people who dont farm are either on hide, grouped with buddies, or otherwise don't care to play with people who they don't know and trust to contribute to the team.

I assure you. almost EVERY time I've ever said "well, pugs arent always bad, what could go wrong?" I've ended up on such amazingly fun runs as a 4 hour Synapse due to our only tanker having the stealth pool and no taunts (and he was a levell 50, he had bought all his important powers at 38+))), or a 3 hour fight with the Reichsman, or a fire/kin ditching because he wanted a team 5 levels higher than him or nothing.

[ QUOTE ]
Because everyone else is too lazy to form their OWN teams.


*keeps farming*

[/ QUOTE ]

Prtety much. If you don't wanna make an effort to create a team, dont expect brilliant results by screaming in broadcast when the other passive types have all relocated to Atlas where they can be even more passive

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't say AE sucks, I said I'm tired of the AE farm missions which seem to be the main thing people are doing.

But thanks for telling me I suck. You are very right. I'm a terrible player since I enjoy the game at a slower pace.

I just miss the game I've always enjoyed being dominated by one thing for so long. It seems we have the people that enjoy XP farming since they enjoy leveling fast to try out various classes. Others enjoy experiencing the stories and history of the game and like abit of role playing and aren't there just to get the next level. Two different kinds of players, but from my limited experience the past few months the XP players seem more plentiful. Is that wrong? Obviously not since the devs are happy with things as they are. But people like me aren't so happy.

That's all fine though if there's more farmer players, then NCsoft gets their fees and makes there money. Losing a few wackos that don't like that type of play so much won't hit their bottom line.

Again, thanks so much for reminding me what a loser I am. It's great to know these things about yourself. Builds character. You sure must be a fine person since you point out other's limitations.

[/ QUOTE ]\

all I see is "whine whine whine I'm too lazy to form my own teams whine whine I hate AE whine whine someone cater tyo me because I can't stand the thought of actually making friends to run TFs and content with and therefore it must be the AEs fault"

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't blame him for your tunnel vision. This string is not going on my favs, because it seems one side is adamant about what they believe, while the other is in denial about what has happened to CoX.

It's a common complaint. And he's right. This main focus of this game has become farming*. (PL'ing is now heavily incorporated in to the game. And I am just as guilty sometimes.**) Maybe NCSoft will do something about it or just keep gathering money from people who'll now pay for extra AE slots (to further help keep a bad implementation of a great idea), alts, and booster packs.

Personally, I am finding this game to become way to redundant and boring because of AE in it's present form (but it's not going to change - the implementation of selling AE slots boosters that idea). I read about people forming teams outside of AE, but other than some TF's, and after trying to form teams (beyond sewer teams), and some on the most populated servers, Freedom and Virtue, I have found them to be vary rare, and in most cases, way too long to build. I have come across the occasional farm on Grand, and PI, but still a farm.

Why am I still playing? Couple of reasons. To build more and better 50's because I can do it easily and without a challenge because all the speed limit signs have been removed from the highway. Also, to kill time while waiting for Champions and DC Online to go live.
---------------------
*First it was Rikti/Lt farms. But as money poured like water and you could slot better, it become Boss farms. But money kept pouring to where it is AV farms. And now, the farms have become very creative to where there is a bubble farm which is like chopping wood (really kindling when ya got a supped up 50).

**Why do I do it? Because it's an easy way to remove the challenge of the game to get to 50 without needing a mentor. Easy way to get money, rare salvage, and build and slot my 50. WHOO HOO! AE has removed the challenge of the game. It's Windows 9X(TM) for the MMO user. (No matter how many blue screens ya get, ya keep using it because it's easy and without a challenge.)
---------------------

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe thats the case on your server. On mine, farming is relatively nonexistent outside a small crowd in Atlas. Freedumb and DemonAngelCatgirlland , er, virtue, are not the entirety of the game

On Infinity, if I want a group for something, its relatively easy to ask my friends or the server global channels if anyone's interested, and we have lots of TF runs a night. I frankly never see any pressure whatsoever to farm and in fact the last time I went looking for an AE farm, I plain couldnt find one.

[ QUOTE ]
Lets not kid ourselves here. What keeps most humans doing what they do, both IRL and especially in RPG's both single-player and MMOs' is the *DING!* factor. WoW knows it very well, and NCSoft has proven that at least with CoX, they know it too every time they "smooth-out" XP rewards into positive gain.

So, if for most people it's all about the *DING!* the faster you get to a situation where there's no more *DING!*, the faster those people essentially figure out that any gameplay activity they do eventually is futile, or at least a lot less entertaining because there's no more *DING!*

In other words, no *DING!*, no subscription... and believe me, I personally already took several breaks after getting to Lv50 with some of my characters. I happen to come back because I do like the game mechaincs more than the *DING!* itself... this also keeps me playing my Kheldians even after they're Lv50... but how much longer does one stay after there's no more *DING!* and other games out there offer their own *DING!* factor?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Your argument seems to attack itself. Yes, people like levelling. But not everyone gets bored the second they hits cap. thats why most mmos have MOST of their timesinks at cap to keep you playing. CoH encourages alt-itis. Either way, capping a character doesnt mean burnout, else the devs would NEVER make it easier to level.

[ QUOTE ]
Not any more anyway. The original design was that you could beat the Katie TF without defeating Mary MacComber 10 times, but if you stuck around and did because your team was so awesome you got a prestigious badge and a new costume piece. Now? Now you can't beat the TF without earning it. I think a redesign is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arent there accolades more worth complaining over? like mission engineer?

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't say AE sucks, I said I'm tired of the AE farm missions which seem to be the main thing people are doing.

But thanks for telling me I suck. You are very right. I'm a terrible player since I enjoy the game at a slower pace.

I just miss the game I've always enjoyed being dominated by one thing for so long. It seems we have the people that enjoy XP farming since they enjoy leveling fast to try out various classes. Others enjoy experiencing the stories and history of the game and like abit of role playing and aren't there just to get the next level. Two different kinds of players, but from my limited experience the past few months the XP players seem more plentiful. Is that wrong? Obviously not since the devs are happy with things as they are. But people like me aren't so happy.

That's all fine though if there's more farmer players, then NCsoft gets their fees and makes there money. Losing a few wackos that don't like that type of play so much won't hit their bottom line.

Again, thanks so much for reminding me what a loser I am. It's great to know these things about yourself. Builds character. You sure must be a fine person since you point out other's limitations.

[/ QUOTE ]\

all I see is "whine whine whine I'm too lazy to form my own teams whine whine I hate AE whine whine someone cater tyo me because I can't stand the thought of actually making friends to run TFs and content with and therefore it must be the AEs fault"

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

It is indeed slower than regular missions for xp. Notice I said regular, not farms. All for the reasons already stated.


[/ QUOTE ]

MA includes regular and farms. There is no distinction. They are all task forces created in the MA. So when i refer to MA i include all forms of content, not just the one type that suites my argument best.

But at the risk of blowing your mind, i will simplify....

MA Farm XP >>>> Regular Content Farm XP.

[/ QUOTE ]

And?

Thats hardly a reason to remove xp entirely when that means nobody would use the AE except the /very/ small minority who has no interest whatsoever in character advancement even at a normal pace.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I use the market quite extensively, so I can tell you you're flat out wrong here. The market trends clearly and inarguably indicate that a substantial portion of the player base has returned to playing regular content.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No it has not. If you use search, you see almost every zone is barren. The only common salvage I have seen really drop in price is that which most common to lowbies. Mostly because they have gone back to doing sewer teams on blue, and Kalinda/Burke on red. I belong to four chat channels: one for finding Teams/TF's on Protector, Liberty, Pinnacle, and a cross server channel. The Pinnacle use to always have 200 to 250 people, but now it is in the mid 100's. Protector which use to be 125 or so is almost dead. The Liberty channel, which use to rank in the low 300's is low 100's. The cross server has dropped and mostly are asking for AE teams. Realistically, we can argue these pseudo facts and numbers for our point, but NCSoft has the real stats, and if it was not a huge problem, they would not have made it such a public problem and implement dramatic measures. That is a business fact no one can ignore.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



My wife and I made new toons on freedom last thursday. Level pacted and already at 18. I see a bunch of lowbies sitting in ae atlas trying to get on a team(and failing) a few vastly overleveled toons forming ae teams with other overlevel toons(not inviting the lvl 2-15's). Occasionaly someone will attempt to start a posi tf(but not often) ITF and LGTF and KTF are starting every now and then. Whole lot of solo'ing going on around them. If the lowbies in atlas would start a sewer team, they could be lvl 8 in an hour. They choose to stand there and bleat looking for AE farm. NOT finding them from all appearances.

So do we need to eliminate xp or institute a IQ test in outbreak?

------------------------------------------------------------------


funny

pay to play a game and they end up sitting, waiting...

edited to include quote

[/ QUOTE ]

SNAP! Ya got me for not clarifying. TY dude.

[/ QUOTE ]

so the moral of the stoiry is, the AE needs no xp because you want the morons who cant be bothered to form their own teams on your non-ae teams?

Uh...Okay.

The market is fine, supply is completely fine on pretty much any useful salvage, high prices benefit lowbies trying to make money. And frankly, if you want the sort of moron who would scream in broadcast for 3 hours looking for a team as your ITF teammate, don't blame me when you fail the TF.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If every MMO were working on your principle, there would probably not have any left going on the market. You know that?

Devs certainly did not create 50 leveling steps to see them bypassed in less than a week, a day or even a hour.

This is non-sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you a complete newbie to the MMO genre? If you're not then you're doing a bang up job in sounding like one. Do you actually believe that the PL issue is exclusive to CoX alone? News flash, PL has been around since a decade ago when MMOs were first introduced. Some may even argue that they've been around even longer, since the days of MUDDing. Through all this time, people like you have been predicting the doom of MMOs due to PLing or farming. Yet games where PLing is rampent such as Everquest 1+2, FFXI, WoW, are still all around. In fact, coming back to CoX, PLing in every shape or form has been around and 4+ years later, the game is still alive and kicking.

Your act is nothing new nor is your candidness refreshing. The only non-sense here is your penchant for making melo-dramatic, far-fetched exaggerations regarding issues that has time and again been proven to be less of a concern than some drama queens made it out to be. Way to beat on a dead horse of an issue. Color me unimpressed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yet you FAIL to mention that EQ (at least back in the day when I played it) and WoW (which I played for 2 1/2 years and finally burned out on) BOTH enact HARSH penalties for explotive PLing - and they don't bother to warn you either, you just try to log in to find your accounts been banned and you can no longer access anything.

Yes, PLing does exist and is indeed tolerated, but explotive PLing in quashed by EVERY MMO currently on-line, and some are not as nice or selective about it as the CoX Devs were (again WoW just bans entire accounts, as opposed to just locking or deleting the 'offending' character on the account).

So, while forms are indeed tolerated, it's clear that the Devs of all MMOs would rather the majority of the playerbase play the game as they intended - and DO try to shift the playerbase toward that end.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nevermind that all it takes to powerlevel in a sanctioned manner is World of wearcraft is use the recruit a friend feature to start a second account, and then as long as characters on that account are the same level, and teamed, they get triple exp, right? more than a few players just dualbox their way to 80 like this and the devs dont care at all.

Not to mention WoW constantly nerfs old content and raises exp rewards to make it faster to get to 80.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I will never understand why some people are so obsessed with how fast *other* people are leveling. How fast I PL my alt has nothing to do with anybody else. The world would be a far better place if people would just direct all that misguided energy to more worthy... causes.

[/ QUOTE ]

If every MMO were working on your principle, there would probably not have any left going on the market. You know that?

Devs certainly did not create 50 leveling steps to see them bypassed in less than a week, a day or even a hour.

This is non-sense.

[/ QUOTE ]
world of warcraft does that all the time, actually. Their major timesink is when you hit cap and can only do the dungeons you need for gear once a week.

Done right you can cap out in a week or less due to the xp smoothing and the 3x exp offer that can easily be taken advantage of by opening a second account.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If i want Superior XP for my time, i go to the MA.

[/ QUOTE ]

...And get on a PL farm team and go into a farm map.

Because otherwise, it's not even remotely "superior".

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats obviously implied Professor

No shortage of AE farm Teams for AE farm maps.

Its funny that PI is a ghost town now. I wonder where the best/convenient place to farm xp is now?...

[/ QUOTE ]

/yawn.

And then?

The point is that if you take out or significantly reduce xp, AE WILL be a ghost town.

It is indeed slower than regular missions for xp. Notice I said regular, not farms. All for the reasons already stated.

The number of folks who play it just for the story is VASTLY exaggerated by certain people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Outside this forum I know of nobody who does.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I will never understand why some people are so obsessed with how fast *other* people are leveling. How fast I PL my alt has nothing to do with anybody else. The world would be a far better place if people would just direct all that misguided energy to more worthy... causes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I ocassionally find myself ranting about those L45+ ishs without a single Vet badge who (for some strange reason), still haven't figured out how to utilize their AT/powers decently.

You know, the ones who got PL'd and cause wipe after wipe until leave/kicks occur.

So, in more cases than are comfortable, it does effect others.

[/ QUOTE ]\

I've seen people with tons of vet badges who still cant play for crap. its got nothing to do with how new they are. some players are just terrible.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
'd imagine it has to do with the pets somehow. Is +regen more beneficial to pets, thus the change? Or is it a case of periodic heal would be too powerful, thus the change?

[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty much.

The Heal Tick power (Soothing Aura) is actually almost twice as powerful as the +Regen power (Suppress Pain). Simply put, this was shown to be too powerful for a Mastermind in Bodyguard mode and made them nigh-unkillable.

It was changed to be +Regen so that there'd still be some level of threat to the MM.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can believe it. with a few inspirations to keep me from getting held my pain corr can tank like a regen scrapper. Having an army of bots with that support would be outright retarded

[ QUOTE ]
"Entitlement whines" such as claiming that one specific playstyle SHOULD and OUGHT to have far better rewards than any other, even to the point of claiming that anything that takes away from that one preferred playstyle is a "backwards idea" by the developers? It has always seemed to me that the first people to start saying "entitlement" like it's an actual argument are the biggest hypocrites in defending the sense that their own preferred playstyle should be inherently more rewarding than any other.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, entitlement means that you believe yourself deserving of something you did not earn or work for, usually.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The result you experienced is not exclusive to the AE.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless there is some way for a single level 50 to SK 7 people under level 40 then it probably is.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. But its totally possible to SK a 7 to a level 46 and send them into a level 50 mission with level 52 mobs and have one tricked out 50 burn them to the mid 20's in a couple hours.

Besides. if you noticed there was a ron of mobs, and one guy was able to burn them himself, it didnt even strike you as even slightly obvious this MIGHT be how a farm works in the AE and if thats NOT what you wanted you should quit the team?

Geezus. what the hell ever happened to personal responsibility?

[ QUOTE ]
Given how MCM always asks on Freedom's global channels how he should roll and in which pool for best bang for your buck recipes, I slightly doubt Cavatina's rant was aimed at him specifically.

Or maybe it was a comment you made a million years ago

[/ QUOTE ]

No. it was mostly a jab at how one time him and me got into an argument in the MA arc finder channel over how "unfair" the market was.

[ QUOTE ]
is the bugs. I just posted in the tech forum about the latest bug to hit one of my missions, and it annoys the crap out of me you have to basically keep play testing your missions every week even after they are published just to make sure the latest patch hasn't screwed them up.

I've published two arcs. One was unplayable for weeks because the devs pulled a map without telling us and I had no way of knowing about it until a freind let me know. The other one fails you as soon as any hostages reaches the exits.

Great track record so far, eh?

[/ QUOTE ]

One would think you'd have the sense to occasionally check on your arcs.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Face it, the end goal of this game is to keep as many of us paying $15/month as they can. If they give us a "You Win" button, then there's nothing left to do, people quit, and the game dies.



[/ QUOTE ]

but if you get sick of grinding as i do and feel that by lvl 50 at least one power should be uber and your influence bank and merit bank empty the day you slot all that up in 1 power is fine

what i expect from a good game is not what is being played out now --grind --grind --no real end game or chance to earn uber rares but grind --GRIND!! that kinda play makes me think of--say other games that reward my long play

merits should have been
save all of them during toons life and get one set uber rare at the least!!
quote from memory for other topic on merits --you can play all the tf's in game once and do most of all the story arc's in game and all you will have the ability to get after that with merits is 1!! set!! of regular named IO's

that is where i see a fix is needed --not in real world drop rate

just fix merits to --"ohh I play this TF and that stuff for this long or so I CAN get what i want
not GRIND -- GRIND maybe!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Use the market, then.

I play it for about 25-30 minutes a day, tops. and I have almost an entire purple set bought now. plus 70 mil stil I'm using to start building my fortunes again.

Not that I think you'll listen, as you're probably one of those types who wants "everything right nao because I need it"

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While it's nice to hear from Horatio, his letter leaves me with a question. He admits that rather than wait until it was ready, they instead rushed out a flawed product to meet a timeline without informing the playerbase that what they were experiencing was still under development and repair, and he doesn't apologize for it.

How is this an appropriate customer service model?

[/ QUOTE ]

You must be new to the video game industry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Typical forumite snark. I think he has a point. The SF/TF *was* rushed. The MM power is bugged as admitted by Castle himself.

When did the video game industry get a pass for sloppy work? I like this game, but don't excuse sloppiness by implying such standards are acceptable fare.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thinm it was about the time people bought Morrowind/Oblivion/Fallout 3 and raved it was "teh best gaem evar"

[ QUOTE ]
Try the Hero side version. It'll be the new speed Katie within hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

supposing you always have a cold or a rad handy

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

However, though...why is there an expectation that casual teaming should yield so-and-so amount of loot for players? Highly-sought after stuff should require more effort.
...
If you're so concerned about getting items as efficiently as possible, then start soloing.


[/ QUOTE ]

When I want drops, I DO solo. And I get drops. I have plenty of purpled out characters...although less so now that one purple can finance an entire mid-range IO build.

It's not about entitlement. I'm just saying this is an MMO, and MMOs are usually designed to encourage player interaction. Most of the game is set up to encourage teaming, so why is this the exception?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if you don't cater to solo players sometimes too you lose the interest of a sizeable fanbase who sometimes enjoys not having to risk looking for teammates of questionable quality if their friends arent online?

[/ QUOTE ]

Still, changing team drop rates wouldn't affect soloists one bit, and it would increase the rewards for those that do team, whether it be PUG or group of close friends.

Kinda sad, the thread became yet another farm thread. I thought the market forum might be better than the rest of the forums at keeping things on track.

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally, we marketeers rely on farmers to generate most of our supply for us. or the demand for our goods. .

[ QUOTE ]
do purples drop for end mish completions?

[/ QUOTE ]

newp

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I'm just saying its downright idiotic and arrogant to assume anyone who didnt like your arc and didnt explain why MUST be a griefer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can agree with that, but pre-I15 I had all sorts of arguments with people who just refused to believe that the griefing was happening at all. This was at the height of it when people were openly talking about 0 starring everything on the front page to be sure their arc could get there instead (which is completely self-defeating since even if their Naruto fan-fic made it there, it would just be hit by the same group of people and bombed into obscurity anyway).

It was happening before and I'm sure it's still happening now, but without the 0 star weapon, they have a lot less impact.

I've gotten reviews from people who just plain haven't liked some of my arcs and even had them explain all the reasons why. I've come to realize that there are folks out there giving such great advice as "too many commas" when they're handing you their 1 star rating that you simply have no chance of pleasing. And that's fine. Their opinion might be on the fringe at best, but they're entitled to it.

And now they can't magically tank my arc with their one vote. Hurray for the loss of the 0 star!

It's hard to not take it as griefing sometimes when the only feedback you ever receive is "one of the best I've played" and such (of which I have dozens) because you assume everyone must have similar tastes, but they just don't. One man's trash is another man's treasure, your mileage may vary, etc etc.

But 5-10 0 stars all within a few minutes with zero progress on your playthroughs? That was always more than a little suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, well, I agree with that. i'm just saying, its a kneejerk to automatically assume theyre all griefs. Griefers do exist though. they do on every game ever that has multiplayer.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...., maps the mission

[/ QUOTE ]



Always wondered... what does this do? I'v heard others say they do it but never understood why? Just curious....



Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Mobs not in sight range dont spawn until you come near. therefore if someone runs through the whole map while theres 8 people on the team, the spawns will all spawn for 8. the other 7 can leave, and the one can solo 8 man spawns.