Cavatina

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I'd like to see something added to AE & I think it would give something extra to work towards.
Give any AE mission the option to choose regular rewards instead of ticket's.

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Stop creating Mito Farms, write a good story worthy of Dev's Choice and you'll have that option.

The only thing stopping your arc from getting a Dev's Choice rating is you.

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And the fact the devs pick a new one once in a blue moon.

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I sometimes actually liked doing Scanner/Paper missions, especially in PuGs!

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I never did. For every good pug I ever tried I can remember at least 2 failing miserably due to a variety of factors such as noobish teammates who knew nothing and tried to tell you they did, to people unwilling to have the star attached to their name, ro just being morons. Not to mention, papers were just an inefficient farm m ap. it gets really boring on the 4th or 5th freakshow mission. ;/

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the gall to call you uptight? umm yea i guess... not really sure what a gall is but yea i can go with that.

look obviously you are becoming a little obsessed with this thread and honestly i don't know why. at this point you just amuse me to no end. sorry but i just don't take this stuff seriously like you do.

my opinions are based on what i have seen. i play on liberty. not the most populated server but it was always steady and with lots of really solid people. the kind that like to play for fun not turn it into a substitute for real life. anyway it used to be pretty easy to find a team or a TF or whatever. almost every zone had toons zippin all over. now its like a ghost town. my friends list which was comprised of dozens of solid long standing veterans that were always around is now reduced to a long grey list with a green name now and then.

sure theres still stuff going on but no where near the scale it was before AE.

the 20x times faster comment obviously isnt some exact science. but when i see someone claim they rolled a 50 in 6 hours then yea id say thats pretty damn fast. actually sounds faster than 20 times but i suck at math so yea.

and this post of course is entirely based on opinion.

im not anti AE (think i might have stated that but maybe i didnt) i just think its abuse should be managed a little better.

so that should give you all you need right there right? so you wanna hug it out? or just allow ourselves to have differences of opinion and move on?

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Ugh, paper missions. I'm glad those days are over. paper missions were the most boring thing EVER. ;/

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Oh please. getting a 50 fast doesnt automatically make you an idiot. Dumb people rarely, if ever, learn. And if AE hadnt been available they would have quickly found their way to PI

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That still sounds tons better than never leaving Atlas.

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Maybe to you. But then, like I've said beforem I avoud pug teams and only group with chat channels where I hang out, so this whole "AE means I cant find teemz" thing is something I never even notice.

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Basically, if it's just an opinion, frame it as such. Don't expect other people to be mind readers. Seems to me the problem isn't their grasp, it's your delivery.

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Can you prove he expected other people to be mind readers??!! If it's just your opinion that he did, then you should have said so in that sentence!

Or maybe, instead, people could realize that no one without a red name is some Paragon Studios insider with access to info no one else has, therefore when they spout "facts" that are not available to everyone they are stating opinion.

I don't know, doesn't seem to me that requires much mind reading, just a modicum of intelligence. But, that's just my opinion.

And Cavatina, if we can't state an opinion without factual evidence on a game forum, then there won't be much posting here, will there? There is a great difference between claiming cancer is a myth, which can be proven wrong, and stating that CoH's subscribers are declining, which cannot.

Oh, and just as a disclaimer here, I think all of the OPs opinions are wrong. It's the "you need to put 'in your opinion' in every sentence" crowd that rankles me.

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My point is, he was treating it as though it was totally 100% factual based on his observations and trying to use "it seems" as an excuse to then go off on a huge rant on it.

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You login and realize that all your inf is gone? Not just you, but cross server wide. Everyone begins anew.

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Unless they make all auctions and bids on the auiction house disappear, it woudnt change much. and even if they did, within a few months we'd be trading for smaller amounts but the rich types would be right back on top and the poor would be complaining about how unfair it is that they cant be rich while doing nothing about it in a constructive manner..

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i think the devs stopped with the" you dont HAVE to use i.o's "and stil be effective statement

i think they realize now thats not true at all...issue i have is..they clearly arent balancing that way. in fact their not even close to making it ok for casual's to make it in this entire game let alone in pvp.

maybe someday the devs will understand what their doing..but i think its time for a few devs changes again..their way to into themselves and not the game.

hopefully they straighten up.. their only a month away from losing people. and frankly we have nothing on the horizen to keep people here.

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Uh...except you dont need IOs to compete in PVE. Nobody's ever said "man, we woulda won that STF if our tanker had purples"

and lets be frank. CO has a totaly different gameplay style. Not everyones gonna like it.

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well sir i do apologize for having an opinion. if the forums allowed me to edit my post at this point id gladly like to put up a warning. something along the lines of

"warning: this is all opinion. some people cant grasp the idea that not all conversations revolve around cold hard facts. so take notice this is opinion".

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Or you could use phrases like, "in my opinion", "I think", "my impression is", "it appears to me", and so on.

Basically, if it's just an opinion, frame it as such. Don't expect other people to be mind readers. Seems to me the problem isn't their grasp, it's your delivery.

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Not to mention, using your opinion without any factual evidence to back it up doesnt work as an argument. tell anyone who's done public speaking or english composition courses that you plan to use your opinion as the sole basis for an argument and they'll laugh you out of the room.

Besides. You cant exactly say "in my opinion" and then spout stuff that has to have a basis in fact to be credible information and expect people to not react negatively.

I could say "in my opinion, cancer is a myth and people who die from it are actually committing suicide" but it wouldnt make it any less of an attempt to deflect me saying something incorrect and silly by using Opinion to hide behind.

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TL;DR version - you don't understand the difference between extrinsic and intrinsic motivation.

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I'll break it down so that you can even understand. Real PvPers rely on intrinsic motivation. In all sorts of PvP formats (FPS, RTS, and even RPG), the desire to face against real competition, the fights, the drive to be the best is the ultimate motivator. Luring fake PvPers with extrinsic motivation will just result in bunches of wannabes running around going "where's mah lewt!" That does nothing to improve the actual PvP gameplay.

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This is just flat out untrue. Have you played Guildwars? Powers in that game are more like loot here. They are so desirable they offer the ability to BUY them with real money (along with pvp items).
*That would be like the option to buy a lvl 50 with full pvp IO's (and maybe purples) here. Would that be good or bad for pvp in Cox?

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Yes, I played GW for quite some time. Unlocking of the powers there is much easier than what you make it out to be. The differences in real loot in GW are so small that they don't make nearly as much difference as here. In addition, once you unlock loot, you can apply it to as many of your PvP chars as you like.

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PvP'ing for the sake of pvp'ing is NOT reward enough evidently. Are you new to this game or other MMOrpg's? PvP for the sake of pvp was in this game for 10? issues and it didn't take off. And that was when it was actually a FUN system to use.

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It was enough reward for the real PvPers. Lets go back to Guild Wars for a moment. You don't get any significant loot from PvPing & GvGing there. In fact, any mention of introducing uber, unbalancing loot met with huge uproar from the PvP community. Loot is and will never be the focus of true PvPing.

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By your faulty logic we could just as easily claim that pve'ers pve for the sake of pve and rewards provide little to no driving force.

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As I've been stating all along, PvE mindset is very different than PvP. What drives PvErs and what drives PvPers are completely different. That's why the goal should have been to convert PvErs into a PvP mindset.

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See, I did pvp a lot in this game, probably far more than you and quite frankly I put in the hours to get very good. This whole block of text I just quoted is just flat out ridiculous. It is inherently exclusive and implementing massive barriers to entry.

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Your assumptions are wrong. Try again.

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Don't bother unless you are already good? Ya that is a recipe to success.

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No, it means get good first, then worry about the loot second. It means having thick skin, asking questions, observing, reading the forums. It doesn't mean don't bother, unless the ONLY reason for someone is loot, then yes don't bother.

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What part of your brain is telling you that video game users subscribe to the belief that they need to practice for hours before they are entitled to some sort of tangible reward? It can't be the part that is grounded in reality.

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PvPing is THE tangible reward for PvPers. Let's put it this way. If a player isn't having fun from actually doing the things required to get rewards, then it's not really for them. If learning to be good at PvP is considered "worK" and can only be properly rewarded with PvP IOs, then it's not really for them.

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Please stop attacking my integrity as a pvp'er. If you insist I'll go to the arena and wipe the floor with you. I've spent more time making suggestions of how to improve pvp in this game than you have probably spent pvp'ing.

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Ya, I highly doubt that you'll wipe the floor with anyone, so that has no impact on me. I'll continue to question you, since you seem to be approaching things solely from a PvEr perspective who just wants this new shiny for PvE.

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Not everyone is intrinsically motivated. In fact most people are more driven by extrinsic factors (especially in video games where they are offered). Pvp'ing for the "fun" of it just isn't enough to drive many people. That isn't a bad thing, it just is. For MANY people, being extrinsically motivated IS fun.

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Then, those type of people are not needed in PvP.

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You don't understand how DR works.

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Ya, actually I do.

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I'd point out, that one of the biggest pvp crowds I know of in an MMO is World of Warcraft, wherein the "best" pvpers are the ones who are most motivated, sure. but also the best geared, best specced and overall most tricked out in phat lewt. And they liberally bash anyone without that lewt as a failure at pvp

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Ok...I don't think this has been suggested yet...at least I hope not

To fix farming without making drastic changes to the way the MA works, and at the same time revitalize an old zone that hasn't seen use in some time, the devs could remove ALL AE buildings from the rest of the game and put a single, unmarked, building containing the MA in the Shadow Shard.

Also make the Shadow Shard a coop zone and give the villains access...
I can just imagine the lowbies trying to navigate those stupid jump things.

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I see this working about as well as the reichsman SF has for popularizing Masterminds in lowbie teams.

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I love how you spout all this BS without a single fact to prove any of it.

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well sir i do apologize for having an opinion. if the forums allowed me to edit my post at this point id gladly like to put up a warning. something along the lines of

"warning: this is all opinion. some people cant grasp the idea that not all conversations revolve around cold hard facts. so take notice this is opinion".

but hey thanks for turning another post into a flame war.

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Just posting the topic was enough to create a flamewar. This has been a hot debate for weeks now between people convinced the sky is falling and those of us who are still playing TFs and teaming with friends and never even touching the AE and wondering what on earth you're talking about.

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I'd assume its because some people relied heavily on broadcast pugs pre-AE and therefore never actually developed any real friendships or found an active SG. or something.

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I find I have some of the most fun in PuGs

And some of the SGs I have been in...though they are great for getting teams, I've had to leave because they seem to support censorship, and say things like "I don't team with energy blasts"

I've been blacklisted by an entire SG/coalition for my response to THAT particular leader.

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heres an idea then. Find a better SG. Just because one SG was full of ignorant [censored] doesnt mean all of them are. I know of quite a few SGs on my home server who welcome pretty much anything, and are loving and accepting and friendly. Including the one I belong to.

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Even if i try to stay away from AE, i still can't find or get enough people to do regular missions... Gonna have to move on to another game looks like...

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So, if the problem is AE, then why do others not seem to have this issue? I have no problems forming or finding teams on my server, and rarely touch AE at all.

* Find an active SG with good players
* Use your server's global channels
* Global friend other active players that like to do the same things you do
* Use the server section here on the forum

Teaming is easy. It only requires some effort on your part.

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I'd assume its because some people relied heavily on broadcast pugs pre-AE and therefore never actually developed any real friendships or found an active SG. or something.

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your question obviously has no correct answer but i have come to appreciate AE. Now im not a PL type player. Im one who enjoys the journey and once you've reached the destination of 50 in this game you realize there isnt any end game content.

AE does two things for the game one good for the veterans who choose to play the old fashioned way and one that will put a serious hurt on the game as a whole forcing either a shutdown of the game or a complete rethink of what CoH is.

AE (for PLing) attracts all the new players and sucks them in. they burn through levels 20X faster than any other player. they in return get burned out. now two things happen at this point. some will say hmm wonder what the other parts of this massive game are like and will actually play the game. but all the greedy non team oriented players will disappear out of boredom. which means we wont have to deal with them later on a STF or LRSF.

the other thing to consider is how AE affects everyone rather they use it it any capacity or not. people have been leaving since its launch. CoH is loosing its hardcore dependable player base at an alarming rate. sure the new players bring in revenue but most of it im sure is temporary and they are bound to get burned out and leave. but loosing the veterans is really bad for business. they are the ones who help bring in consistent revenue. consistent revenue is what keeps all businesses flowing.

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I love how you spout all this BS without a single fact to prove any of it.

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There is only one solution to the "problem" of level 50 noobs: Don't team with them. There. That was easy. Now they're not your problem.

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If they hadn't become a level 50 noob, there's a good chance they could've been worthwhile teammates.

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Not really.

If theyre the type to not ask questions, hit 50, and refuise to take advice because theyre 50, they would have been a worthless idiot either way.

the AE doesnt magically burn out your braincells and turn you into a drooling moron.

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No it just gets them to 50 quicker at which point they refuse to take advice because they are 50 (your words). Maybe prior to 50 they would have taken advice, but they didn't need to because everything was being handed to them?

Also properly playing up, people often learn much more than just being PLd. . .NOT ALWAYS, but often.

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Oh please. getting a 50 fast doesnt automatically make you an idiot. Dumb people rarely, if ever, learn. And if AE hadnt been available they would have quickly found their way to PI

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In other words.

Waahh, wahh, i cant find pugs and I'm too lazy to form teams or go looking for teams elsewhere than broadcast therefore the game is dead?

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Though to be fair, I have tried to form teams, people get on team "Oh, you aren't going to be running AE?"
"No, I plan on running regular content. . ."
"Ok good luck with that!" *person quits team*

And I took the time to tic every little bubble other than Atlas park in that selection. . . and I sent a tell asking if they wanted to join a "Mission Team" apparently they thought I meant an "AE farming mission team"?

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Then maybe you should, I dunno. Join some of your servers global channels and stop trying to use pugs? Theyre usually horrible experiences anyhow.

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There is only one solution to the "problem" of level 50 noobs: Don't team with them. There. That was easy. Now they're not your problem.

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If they hadn't become a level 50 noob, there's a good chance they could've been worthwhile teammates.

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Not really.

If theyre the type to not ask questions, hit 50, and refuise to take advice because theyre 50, they would have been a worthless idiot either way.

the AE doesnt magically burn out your braincells and turn you into a drooling moron.

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iam a 24 vet player, and now my 50s have nothing to do. i go to PI and no one there, then to RWZ and nothing. finally i step into Atlas Park and everyone is there doing boring farms. Game should be renamed to "City of Atlas Park AE". Since most players are in one building trying to Power Level.

Even if i try to stay away from AE, i still can't find or get enough people to do regular missions... Gonna have to move on to another game looks like...

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In other words.

Waahh, wahh, i cant find pugs and I'm too lazy to form teams or go looking for teams elsewhere than broadcast therefore the game is dead?

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One more question. Why do people try to become an ebil billionaire selling crafted enhancements? Isn't there more money and faster money to be made flipping recipes?

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For me, its both knowing that i helped someone get th enhancement they want, and the fact it may be slower, but damn if it doesnt feel good to see something I bought for around 2 mil sell for 8 mil

Oddly, I underbid even on salvage. My inner flipper refuses to let me pay buy it nao when I can list a price, goof around for 15 minutes roleplaying in SG chat, then pick up my goodies.

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What do we do about the people who got to 50 the traditional way and have been playing since beta and suck?

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We'll always have those, its not like they have gone away or will go away. I'm worried about all the good/great/amazing players who are getting a poor start in the game and have no clue there is much more to it.

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Then make an active effort to invite them to teams outside the AE?

Be [censored] constructive about it, don't whine on the forums about "omg the ae is ebil wut can we dooo"

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(Guess I lied, here's another response) I totally agree with you B_Witched - the suggestion I made originally (albeit not the greatest) wouldn't affect players like you at all.

To Grae - that's a small % of the player base, like others have said, you'll never get rid of that, plus, sucking at playing a character is all in the eye of the beholder - you might think a person sucks, another might think he's good, no one is right and both people are right at the same time.

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Uh. trust me.

If an Invuln/SS tanker is level 50. Has the stealth pool, waited till 38 to get his aggro aura, skipped rage entirely, and has 18 months worth of vet badges, i don't care what his friend joebob the pure empath thinks about his playskills, he's still a horrible player.

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What do you agree with? That the Devs will eventually smooth the leveling speed AE missions offer these days to be more in-line with the normal game content?!

And if you agree with that, who're you calling a Troll exactly?!

And if you've suddenly stopped shouting at us with your all-caps posts... then who are you and what have you done with our ChickenChaser?

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Its already in line with our stuiff as long as you arent farming. Actually, its probably even worse than normal content if you arent farming. No rested xp and no end of mish bonus and no arc complete bonus. ;/

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To the OP, I feel the same way regarding AE. And I'm tired of hearing the "let us play the way we want" argument. It's a community-based game (ie., MMO) - if 80% of said community is in Atlas or Cap, the game is pretty lackluster for anyone going against the grain.

A game based on how many 50's someone can PL in a week is a far cry from what the game used to be. I've been playing off and on since issue 2 and this is the first time I doubt I'll be returning should I take a break.

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Except this isnt how the game is at all. MOST of the community is playing other stuff than the AE. They just arent standing around in town zones screaming in broadcast for pugs. the pugs are in the AE. the rest of us are gladly doing whatever we please.

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I have a quick suggestion to solve the problem of brand new people getting characters to lvl 50 and not knowing how to play the game - make MA only available to people who already have a level 50 character (like the epic ATs). That way new people coming to the game have to play the game before farming their way to lvl 50.

What do you all think?

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I think if they want 50 that fast they'd just farm peregrine island.

Almost any MMO you can rush to cap if you're willing to use the right sort of means to do it.

Besides. do you HONESTLY think all the idiots out there are totally new to the game? Or that vet badges are an automatic sign you arent a waste of a team slot?