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Quote:Sometimes it's worse to regret something you didn't do, or didn't try. History is full of times that seemed just as hopeless if not more so, when customers or other groups made a stand and got their way, or at least a compromise in which everyone came out a winner. This passes the duck test, as they say. It appears hopeless, but we're in an excellent position (with the gaming press on our side) to make a stand. Later, when you see other games shut down, or look back on past games shut down, you'll realize just what a golden opportunity we have here, comparatively speaking. I know of two MMOs that are shutting down right now with loving fan bases that NO ONE is talking about. Whether we succeed or fall may just depend on how much we take our opportunity for granted.Alot of this seems to be interpretation of what people say.
When someone comes on and says things like, be realistic or nothing is going to happen no matter how many letters you send in...it ends up being interpreted that the people who are holding out for hope and are sending in letters and doing things are idiots and just wasting their time. Even though the person never actually said "You are wasting your time." It is interpreted that way.
Also, people who come on and are all full of energy and hope and are actively doing all sorts of things to save COH can come across rather annoying and condescending. Even without saying direct words it can just come across this way sometimes. Make people feel something is wrong with them for not speaking more positively and sending in capes and letters.
I guess everyone just needs to give people a little grace.
No, I'm not telling you that anything's wrong with any of you. All I'm doing is asking, pleading, begging. Help save City of Heroes, or, failing all hope, make a final show of solidarity alongside us. Making these small steps costs so little effort (see my big post above). Two hours here and there out of your entire life, compared to all the life this game still had left in its development pipeline. -
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Quote:Exactly.Encouragement and support are best right now. Failures can be dealt with after they come. People will or won't lose themselves either which way and we can all deal with things when things come to pass.
Folks, not saying this latest argument isn't important in some way--and this isn't me nagging, it's actually me pretty much begging, with all my heart: if you haven't yet hit a party store for masks and capes, or printed out the Titan Network's templates for masks and mailed them in to the addresses they've provided, please take just a short while out of your time and do so. AND STOP, WAIT. Before you click away from this (I say "you" rhetorically for those who NEED to listen to me right now). Don't think it'll make a difference? This ISN'T a task that requires much effort at all, and it's not solely about making a difference. This has been one of the greatest online communities there ever was. No one in their right mind would argue this, and if you've played and enjoyed City of Heroes at all, you're a part of it.
You could wrap up this Call to Action in under two hours, easy. You'd get a little exercise and fresh air, could hit a store on your way back and reward yourself with a treat (heck, buy GW2, you earned it if you do this for your community...even if I won't join you--personally, I'm all about some dark chocolate and a new indie game on Steam.), and it's quite possible that no forum argument today, this month, this year, or this decade* will give you the same sense of satisfaction as responding to this Call to Action.
Not because you know or don't know whether it'll work. The odds were never in our favor, and I've never felt any other way about it. But I also know that an online gaming community has never risen up like this. For better or worse, our community's antics have put us right up there with Lord British's virtual assassination--history will remember this. And we're not even done! Since we've already set a precedent, we may as well do it right.
*How many of you had to actually think about that one? I know I did!
Also, the best City of Heroes-themed cape and mask (as in, created or modified extensively by you, and then judged by the best panel ever of judges ever, the community) will win a free copy of Defense Grid on Steam and a free copy of ALL Defense Grid DLC, or whomever you want to gift it to (or ask me to gift it to). I got some free copies for helping kickstart Defense Grid 2, and have one left that I haven't promised anyone. (Hidden Path Entertainment couldn't get a publisher to listen to any idea that isn't trying to be BIG HUGE MEGA BLOCKBUSTER crap.) All of this would cost you $15.99 if you bought it. -
Quote:Cool story, bro. Listen, I've got to go to work. Wish we could just type about this all morning long, but you should probably be checking the Titan Network's Calls to Action instead, anyway. You know, that thing we're all trying to do. Saving City of Heroes. I promise you LOTS of forum debates if we succeed, but first things first, okay?Right. But I'm not laying into her. If I were, I'd be calling her names or laughing in her face. If you don't understand the severity of hate and what it can do, you don't have the perspective enough to talk down someone who's at that state. Saying 'I know how you feel and it'll go away' only goes so far (if anywhere at all).
Once you find real perspective, you start to hear more about what goes on and why or how. It stops being about what grudges you keep with you but how your decisions affect you and those around you. -
Leo. Have some class.
If she's brave enough to examine herself for error in front of this forum's unforgiving peanut gallery, she's probably got more character than you're giving her credit for.
By laying into her directly following her apology, you're telling us WAY more about yourself than I suspect you want to share. -
Quote:I've seen it. I've also seen other sunsets. Lines get drawn in the sand, some that stay drawn, many that soften over time.In nearly 20 years of online gaming, I can't recall anyone ever taking the pretendy fun-time game this seriously before. ... Congratulations?
It's that last part that I'm writing to you about, Atlantea. I recognize the frustration you feel when you see people giving money to the publisher who will cut this game and community down before its time. But you MUST be content to take pride in those who boycott NCSoft alongside you, and respect the minds of those who won't. I don't just mean a token amount of respect. I can tell you're impassioned, but I can also tell your heart's in the right place, so believe me when I say you'll probably come around to this frame of mind later. And I'll still be here alongside you. Whatever mistakes we make now should be forgivable in advance, folks. It's a tough moment for us all.
My decision not to support NCSoft's bad business behavior will help me sleep better at night, and anyone who challenges me here will find an immovable target; and I'll gladly continue to encourage people to stand alongside me, but if they won't? These aren't all bad people you're tossing to the side--and in fact, some of them have done a great amount for City of Heroes over the years.
There are reasons why it's dangerous to draw such a hard line in the sand between yourself and others here, not the least being that it will divide you from other people who are just as well-meaning as yourself. It will also cause you to stiffen rigidly in spirit during a time when you ought to be the most open and forgiving--this is not the time to open new wounds that cannot be reached for closure later. Even people with the same moral fiber as you have many different opinions about what represents a tough moral decision--though they might share the same caliber of morality, where they pick and fight their moral battles can be very different. And in every case, a person makes these decisions alone, for themselves.
Some of the most instrumental people in helping to resurrect Earth and Beyond and its community did NOT join my boycott of EA that lasted for nearly a decade. I suspect the same would happen if we, the players of City of Heroes, are forced into a similar circumstance. We will need each other regardless, and our common purpose WILL outweigh any other nuanced detail. -
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Quote:That's where you need a little education. This isn't about what I can do to hurt NCSoft. See, long after the end, when the dust has settled and I've moved on from my anger, I'll still have my self-respect to contend with. Don't confuse this with pride, or petty arrogance. This world is still filled with small and family-operated businesses who depend above all else on their customers trust. Those businesses have a lot to feel good about, but so do their customers. When someone does right by you, you ought to do right by them. If a business treats you badly, you ought to take your business elsewhere. Be kind to yourself. Expect better, demand better. These are simple, self-evident principles; and the worst part about this mess is that it's convinced me that the world is filling up with customers for whom respect is neither expected, nor demanded.Trying an American boycott of a company that gets 95% of it's profits from Asia, even more now with the closure of CoH, isn't really gonna do anything.
I went YEARS without buying a single game from EA, until the new CEO stepped up and point-blank admitted that their reputation for buyout-and-shutdown strategies for studios like Westwood was both accurate and unacceptable. I was HAPPY to open my wallet after that--I had been itching to play UO again and a couple other titles. Boycotting them after what they did to me and my community in Earth and Beyond DID hurt their sales, we know this now, but only because we weren't the only game community doing the boycotting--EA made many enemies of MANY customers of MANY shutdown studios within just a few short years, something NCSoft seems poised to do. I wish those studios under NCSoft well, but I cannot in good conscience support a business who treats its customers and studios (especially a darling of the industry like Paragon Studios) poorly. No industry veteran would tell you that NCSoft did right by them, or by us. -
Atlantea, you don't have to explain or defend yourself, it's not worth your effort when there are better ways to focus your time and energy; and ANYONE around here who has been paying attention should know by now that you're doing your part to save City of Heroes. And anyone who rakes you over the coals over where you choose to spend YOUR money is just looking to distract you from the real goal: Answering Calls to Action, and saving City of Heroes. It's also none of their fracking business in what direction you open your wallet.
As a customer, stand your ground and be proud of where you stand. I'm right here beside you, along with MANY others. I won't be giving any more money to NCSoft. Heck, I wasn't interested in any of their games anyway. I'm a super hero comic book fan. I DO wish their other studios well, I wish them the best, in fact. But what I don't wish well, or support in any way, is careless, clumsy customer service and NCSoft exemplifies it. And you know what? I bet anyone in any of those other studios would choose to understand and respect my stance.
So, the rest of you who have a problem with my stance? With Atlantea's stance? With any of us? You can whine, insult, bait us with silly mindgames all you wish. We. Aren't. Budging. Trust me. I didn't budge with the last publisher I boycotted. I've got practice. -
Golden Girl's sense of loyalty is old-fashioned and pretty extreme, which is why she'll still be fighting for this game and community long after the game is taken away from us. She'd be indispensable in the case of a Plan Z, still slogging away and helping in any way she could, long after many others lost interest in a game they could no longer play without getting a ton of hard work out of the way first. Despite everything ya'll throw at her, she'll still do her best to save the reason for our being here. That's why Golden Girl is one of the biggest real-world heroes here, and it's why I'd throw my chips in with her any day of the week.
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Quote:This, very much so.One with the Statesman star saying "We're heroes. It's what we do."
Another with the Arachnos spider saying, "We're villains. What's ours is OURS."
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
And also, the Paragon Studios logo!!! Please!!!
And various versions of "AP33" that people have contributed. I liked the ones that incorporated a burning torch, but the Atlas silhouette is also cool. But some of those have lots of detail and tiny print; it shouldn't be too busy, it's a protest sign, not a giant work of artistic complexity. It should be readable at a glance. -
Glad to hear it, Golden Girl. These are just my suggestions, but I hope ya'll won't skip a beat after November 30th--because we'll need the momentum of sliding neatly into the next phase if we want the community to stick together post-sunset. And sometime before sunset (end of October/beginning of November--or even sooner?), we should also make a push to have the forum community adopt the Titan Network's forums as City of Heroes default "official forums". Just in case NCSoft pulls these forums out from under our feet before November 30th.
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TITANS
Yes, in all caps. -
Quote:THAT made me laugh.Responding strictly to the topic:
1.) Shake my fist at my monitor for a second.
2.) Go play Champions and have fun.
3.) Make sure I take screens and videos of all my most awesome COH stuff before the game ends.
4.) Never play an NCSoft game again. Not because I think it will matter, or to join a rogue group of 16 year olds in their internet movement. But just because they personally pissed me off, so I personally won't give them my business anymore.
5.) Champions has Batplanes. Dude... Batplanes. Cheer up.
Thanks.
Hey, at least you're being honest. As a consumer, that's a fine, principled stance you're taking. No great scheme or movement, just... "You personally pissed me off--I'll take my business elsewhere." Businesses in my country (the United States) used to thrive or fall based on their customers principles and loyalty. If we were still living in a world like that, we wouldn't be in this mess. -
Quote:The group of players who successfully resurrected EA's Earth and Beyond are already making preparations to form their own legitimate studio and pump out something grand; working for nearly a decade to put EnB back together showed that they could do the impossible--what next?Yes. That would do nicely.
Something like maybe someone start a new, independent company from scratch and a new superhero MMO? Yes. A pipe dream for now. But there are so many of us, and surely some percentage of us have the business skills (or are in the process of developing them in college and elsewhere) to do such a thing in the future?
If in 10 years, there is a new, shinier City of Heroes, based on the lore from this game and IP and at that time NCSoft is nothing but a bad memory?
I'll take that as a win.
Those guys and gals didn't have HALF the fanbase and fan resources that we have here. What are we capable of? Can't wait to find out. So one thing's for sure. If our efforts to win over NCSoft's charity fail, we need to take all of that anger, and all of that passion, and all of that love for our game and community, and use it to BUILD something from the ashes.
THAT is what I would most like to stick it to NCSoft with.
THAT is how I'd like to see revenge.
Our unmitigated, unstoppable, unbreakable spirit. -
Success is the best form of revenge. Seeking to harm NCSoft would, in the end, corrupt us just as much as their corporate greed does them.
We'll do something that fills fans of City of Heroes with joy, something that leaves NCSoft behind to become a small, dim, unimportant memory. -
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Quote:That's because CCP (EVE's studio) did something unique (and smart) several years ago: they bought Eve Online from their publisher Simon & Schuster, and never had to ask for permission for anything again, or beg S&S and compete with rival studios for funding. I wish more studios would have been taking that risk in the previous years--the landscape might look different today. Imagine a world where friggin' Origin was still around!I've now been playing a lot more EVE Online as a consequence - a game that has been around longer than CoH and is still going.
CCP has made its share of dumb mistakes, but they were able to bounce back. I played EVE a lot before City of Heroes and I applaud the risks those guys took. They've been well-rewarded and are well-loved for it. Publishers ought to have been made into dinosaurs by now. One of their biggest promises is always funding for advertising (ADVERTISINGLOLOLOLOL). Yeah, right. We know better. Why don't more studios go their own way? I wish Paragon Studios would just stick together, even if it meant making a new game. Maybe there's some angel investors out there. Well, a guy can wish.
Quote:Lots of GW2 people are on our side. I see stuff in map chat about it every SINGLE day. Heck, I found out about the closure in GW2 map chat. People are not blind as to what this means for the entire stable of NCsoft's western games.
Maybe GW2 is good for something after all. -
I actually signed up for City of Heroes because of Issue 14: Mission Architect. In childhood, I always appropriated toys for my own fantastical universes and learned how to write my own adventure games in Basic (sometimes I wonder how life would have turned out if I had continued learning how to program). I didn't just read comics, I created my own comic book characters. Captain-Electric and several other characters have had long lives. I used to play a computer game by pre-evil Electronic Arts named Adventure Construction Set, that let me design my own worlds, quests, and characters. I loved it.
I waited many, many years for CRPGs to get back around to my dream game--one that let you participate in its creation. Years later, I learned how to emulate an Ultima Online server, but not for the reason you might expect (I still paid to play the official servers): I learned enough JavaScript to appropriate the engine for my own single-player Britannia, filled with custom gumps, characters and chained-together quest-lines. Only one other person ever played any adventures in my Ultima: Forgotten Tales world, an emulator engineer from Brazil who used to help me with troubleshooting. But they loved it. Good enough for me!
Mission Architect brought me in, but it would be a year before I picked it up. Instead I found friends, a dev team, and official story arcs that lured me into their official game world like no one has since my first year in Ultima Online; and also got me back into reading comics, which has added much enjoyment to bedtime reading for three years now.
For the past couple of years, Architect has added immensely to my play experience. This system brought me to City of Heroes, and I'd say it represents at least 1/3 of the reasons I stuck around. I was lucky enough to befriend a couple of players whose talent for creating stories has put them firmly among my favorite comic book authors, despite this being "a game". Several other authors also adorn my list of favorite talent, many of them largely undiscovered and with few ratings. I have SO many architect tickets and I never "farmed" for any of them. They're all from playing stories for the story's sake.
When one of my friends greatest works yet, a massive story arc trilogy pitting heroes against an unexpected Axis America invasion, was due out around the same time as the new Pandora's Box SSA, I realized I was actually looking forward to his arc more; which is saying something, considering I was REALLY looking forward to the new SSA. And that's when it hit me: this was another great first in gaming for me--fans becoming huge fans of other players content within mainstream MMORPGs--so much so that if he had been accepting donations, I would have opened my wallet.
The worst mistake Paragon made was to confuse the system's initial player reaction for an overall failure of the idea itself. Mission Architect should have blossomed over successive issues, giving players the power to create (and the power to reward, even if those rewards were particular to instanced Mission Architect content) their audiences with increasingly mind-blowing special effects tricks, worlds, maps, access-points (beyond the AE building's rather unimmersive access point), and multiple NPC contacts, contact chains and complex mission trees.
Other games have picked up the torch, and games will continue to pick up the torch, but it was a sad thing to see a great system with so much potential receive so little care after its creation. Still, it was amazing to see what my favorite authors did with so little. We created worlds. -
Quote:Which is also why the Blade and Soul and Guild Wars 2 fans should be ranting and raving in our corner right now, picking up banners alongside us, impassioned alongside us, called to action alongside us. For those who are--I salute you.Sounds a bit familiar.
Here is Pastor Martin Niemöller's poem as it was originally written in German, then as it was translated into English.
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For those who are telling the rest of us to just get over it? I'll only join your future self, when we're both smacking you upside the head. -
That was quick.
If I can get back on my feet, so can anyone else, Snow Globe.
If you haven't sent in your handwritten letter, your masks, capes, if you haven't attempted to dream up, fund, or organize every new and crazy idea you can think of, then you ought to get back on your feet and keep trying. Give yourself something to look back on later and feel some pride over. Not just pride for yourself. Pride for something larger than yourself. The effort to save City of Heroes. -
I guess I'm not surprised to see that this thread is still chugging along, after two requests to have it nuked. (Hint: not surprising because our red-named allies in Paragon are just a little bit busy these days.
)
At this point, they might as well leave it up. But for the record, those requests weren't owing to me wanting to take back what I wrote in the OP. I wrote what I felt; and what I still suspect: that these "talks" are merely related to the services cessation process; and that our kindness and patience has been exploited by NCSoft's NDA gagging of the Paragon team, while the Paragon team bleeds out into the workforce at large--and that we should have been more ruthlessly aggressive in our media-grabbing antics these past two weeks, not kinder and gentler.
But the problem with creating a thread like this is that it doesn't help cause ACTION. It becomes a meeting place to vent (and waste) steam. Like protesting in a park right outside NCSoft's iron fortress, when the park is completely concealed by trees.
Shining a spotlight on my anger is not wrong, per say, and several of you have written in support of my expression. And I'm not refusing you, but I want to acknowledge those who have taken me to task for this. Yes, even those who came bearing insults. I wouldn't have regretted posting the OP if we truly knew, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that our strongest displays of unity had been in vain and that we truly had nothing left to lose. But what we need right now is not a spotlight on our grief, which we'll have all the time in the world for if we fail as a community. What we need is a laser-like focus on our purpose: Saving City of Heroes.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, this really started to dawn on me the moment I pressed 'Submit New Thread'. 99 percent of what I type around here is straight-up encouragement for calls to action. Now? Straight-up rabblerouser. People have short memories, which is the other problem with creating a thread like this: words immortalize you at the specific point in time in which they're typed. Always a good idea to keep in mind when you're in the heat of a moment. -