Captain-Electric
-
Posts
1112 -
Joined
-
Quote:Originally Posted by Obsidius
Prove it.
Also, their Facebook page proved to fare no better in regards to critical feedback than the forums (and their supposed limited scope).I have to go back to work, but for now, all I'll say is that I hope we all enjoy our forthcoming homogenous outfits. The community wins!Quote:Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I always pick fights carefully. I have only maybe once or twice made a thread decrying anything. This is quite possibly my one Big 'Explosion' thread.
The fact that it snowballed so fast into 30 pages+ is clear indicator that I was NOT the only one feeling that way. And, yes, while the forum might be a smaller window of players than the game in general, it also tends to contain the longest playing and most paying players. The Devs can't just be fair weather friends when it suits them with comments like 'We are dedicated to our veterans and ongoing playerbase' one minute and then totally disregard perfectly valid feedback the next. That's just not on, ESPECIALLY not with paying customers. I almost dread to think how much I've sunk into this game, along with many of the board and in-game vets.
They can't claim to listen, not listen, and then throw a hissy fit when they get called on it. -
Quote:This is exactly what I expected when I voiced my opinion and stressed that the art team should listen to the community but avoid giving them the steering wheel. There are minority biases in the "Gender Equality" thread that do not reflect the tastes of the game's wider audience. All you need to do is log into the game to see it.Originally Posted by Frostbiter
"Zwill states that they will be starting to 'port over' male pieces to the female model rather than making female-only pieces with future costume sets from here on out."
This kind of sounds snarky to me. So the plan is to do away with female specific pieces altogether?
Of course a broader selection of choices would be great, but if the art direction wasn't ALREADY phenomenal in City of Heroes, I wouldn't be here. The community should pick its battles more carefully "going forward", and if a sea change does occur, I won't blame the art team. -
I gave a lot of feedback during the Issue 21 beta, but have not stepped foot in the beta forums since (a consequence of time, not desire).
-
Quote:Much respect for your opinions as well, Knight. I know both of us have shown some uncharacteristic frustration on the forums recently, and I know your intentions are genuine when calling me out on this. Perhaps you're right. I don't visit these forums often, or see them as "my community". And I've got a low opinion of their signal to noise ratio.Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I've known you to be of a rather reasonable mind and I can understand if you've grown to find these forums as dens of negativity, but be careful... Those feelings can easily betray you and make you an embodiment of it.
I bowed out of the discussion earlier in the day because I felt like another forum poster and myself were beginning to have a battle of personalities or wits. As a matter of principle in contentious threads, I try to debate the issues at hand, and resist the urge to drag personalities into the argument. The moment I referenced TrueGentleman directly with regards to male biases, I broke my own rules. Those rules are there to keep me from the pitfalls that this very post illustrates, veering away from the bigger picture to pursue self-serving goals (like defending my own image or slinging mud at someone else)-- things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic.
Quote:Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Mainly, you came into this thread putting individuals' opinions and feedback down. Mostly by the old method of pointing out that forums-users are very much a tiny majority compared to the rest of the playerbase... And that those speaking up here were just a vocal minority.I DO hope I accomplished something by eliciting responses from a few female posters. I often encourage people to speak up who otherwise wouldn't (a category I fall into on the forums), and I prefer, in no small way, for people to speak for themselves. I'm not sure that I'm speaking for female players in describing non-judgmental observations of their costume choices. But you're probably correct if you think that I shouldn't have attempted that either.Quote:Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Then you tout your own empirical evidence of female players that you know. So, our opinions are not good enough vs. the entire rest of the playerbase that does not visit the forums and the female players that you know and are now speaking for.
I hope you're right, but I suspect you're not. Very degrading terminology has been used throughout this thread to describe the female Gunslinger costume parts, and by extension those who DO enjoy them (and I'm not the only one who's noticed). Terms that stem from damaging biases and which do not at all describe my female (and male) friends (and favorite comic book characters hehe) who dress more provocatively.Quote:Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Claiming that some or all (or whatever your point was in saying that there is an over abundance of male chauvinistic bias in this thread) really seems to me to be unnecessary at best. -
Nice job there.
-
Quote:I came into this argument as a middle-of-the-line supporter of choice. I left it as a hard-learning apologist for feminazis everywhere, with a very small anatomy.Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Well done, little man - that's the closest thing to a laugh I've gotten out of this thread so far.
*Sigh*
Arguing on the Internet.
Will everyone PLEASE stop calling Techbot a girl?Quote:Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
On the other hand, it's interesting that you're more interested in arguing more with the male posters in this thread than the female ones are saying much the same thing.
-
Quote:Originally Posted by The Masked Shrike
I won't try to speak for anyone but myself, but here goes. For the record, I am a staunch advocate for complete costume equality between males and females. Let the guys wear corsets if they want, I say.
I am a female player. I make characters built around concepts that interest me. I like sexy outfits. I have a character named PinUp Girl, for goodness' sake. I even have one named Dancehall Girl, who will probabgly use a few of these new pieces (thanks to the devs for the hat-free Ringlets hairstyle, finally!) It is ridiculous that they run around fighting crime in their high heels and skimpy costumes, but I have fun with it.
I also like to make characters in outfits that are more realistic and practical--outfits real people might conceivably wear. My 1930s aviatrix is clad in something that would keep her warm in an open cockpit. My archaeologist/sharpshooter is covered from head to toe. Sexy is fine sometimes, but I don't want 24 -7 SexxxxyBabezTime.
I don't have a problem with the 'saloon girl' costume pieces. They don't offend me in and of themselves. I will likely use some of them here and there. I am always happy about more costume bits.
However, when I heard about a Gunslinger Pack, I was not looking to get more corsets or thigh-high boots. Thanks to the Steampunk and Barbarian packs, we actually have a nice selection of corsets as it is. Aside from the Ringlets and the cigarillo, I am disappointed in what this pack contains.
What I was hoping for from this pack: gunfighter coats/jackets, spiffy vests, new hats, new boots, a duster. For males and females. Maybe an actual cowboy gun--'73 Winchester or longrifle--for the AR powerset, at long last! Oh, and holsters. I mean, how could there not be holsters? I am still totally boggled about the lack of a gunbelt. Really?
Sexy is fine, but for the love of Edith Head, please give us more concept-focused non-sexy costume bits. I want to make a cool-looking female gunfighter. Tombstone is an awesome flick and a great inspiration, but not all the ladies want to dress like Katie Elder; some of us want to dress like Doc Holliday.
I bought this set, but I feel kind of conflicted about it. It is just not a Gunslinger pack, to my mind, yet I've put my stamp of approval on it with my credit card. I am weak. I am glad to see that the devs are listening (and I'm thrilled at the news about pre-tinted pieces).
Devs, please consider revisiting the Gunslinger theme in a follow-up pack. I will gladly give you money for it if it contains gunfighter clothes for the ladies. And holsters.Completely agree.Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Devs, if you're going to listen to anyone in this thread, ignore everyone else including me and just read this. I suspect this is the closest to the average person's viewpoint you're ever likely to get. -
Quote:Chauvinistic.Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
How about you come right out and say what you think these "true colors" are?
Which is wise, considering many of them enjoy the options you've railed against.Quote:Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
I wouldn't presume to speak on behalf of all the women I've gamed with about how they want or don't want their characters to appear.
Can't argue with this (heh). My female costumes are less revealing mostly because I play on Virtue, and don't want to deal with male invitations for "mature" roleplay. It comes up sometimes anyway, so a while back, I started putting names of characters they're dating in their bios (the names all refer to male characters of mine, its proven to be an excellent workaround).Quote:Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
I will say that I've noticed my own female avatars get treated noticeably differently depending on merely how tight their costumes are (it's creepy).
Again, no argument. I want to see a broader range of additional options too, but keep in mind that there's a demand for revealing costumes. This is what I meant by "throwing the baby out with the bath water."Quote:Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Perhaps I'm being merely self-interested, but I'd like a game that appeals as widely as possible and doesn't alienate a significant portion of its potential playerbase. The limitations in options that Techbot has amply illustrated and that have been complained about for a long time now aren't promoting that.
Edit: And I just saw the Masked Shrike's feedback. Hope this thread sees more like that.
-
TechBot, I don't really think me and you are arguing. We'd both just like to see the game's choices expanded to broader tastes. Like I said in the beginning, my own female characters tend to dress up less revealingly. I AM arguing with the "True Gentleman" and ilk, who are showing their colors by tossing words like "whorrific" around regarding wholly valid female choices. Many female players plainly enjoy their revealing outfits. But players like Eva Destruction have a genuine problem if they CAN'T FIND OPTIONS outside of the classic comic books, when male characters undeniably have a full range of choices available to them. When players of female characters of various tastes are reasonably happy across the board, Paragon Studios will have something to really be proud of.
-
Quote:A perfectly reasonable question. My answer is, I don't know how they feel/felt about that, because I didn't ask. I mean, how would you have expected me to ask?Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Did they have any other new options?
"Do you like my costume, Cap?"
"Yeah! So, would you look QUITE SO NAKED with more costume options?"
Wouldn't go over well.
Anyway, it would actually be nice to have more female feedback, because a different kind of male bias permeates this thread, and it's as out of tune with reality as any. -
Quote:Choices are GOOD. But for the sake of balance, bear in mind, most of the female players I know or have met in-game over the past two years (I mean provably female, owing to social networking, Vent or phone chats) have ALL preferred more skin, not less. Did they complain about male bias whenever new sets were released? Yes, of course. Yet, did they proceed to dress their characters like the sexified super heroines they enjoy playing? Yes.Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Well, thank god then that not every guy is the kind of shallow reject of society that you just described then. I'm a guy, and I'd rather see diversity and choice.
While that may sound like a double standard, there is a difference between women hating being objectified and enjoying looking sexeh.
-
Quote:Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
And Sue Storm? Even she has to wear a "cleavage window" outfit for formal occasions these days."These days?"Quote:Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
See #6 on this list of Worst 90s Superhero Redesigns. Here's another from the same era.
-
Quote:Correct. A vocal minority does not make up "the community". Most of the community has rarely (if ever) logged into the forums.Originally Posted by BrandX
But it isn't the whole communities request. Something to remember.
If you talk to people in-game--the people who actually log in and play--they generally seem to be very happy with City of X. I know because I spend way more time there than here.
-
Quote:Judging from the rest of the thread (including me), it sounds like he's the only one who GOT the cookie.Originally Posted by Frostbiter
What do you want? A cookie?
-
Quote:Yes!Originally Posted by Zombie Man
I hope the art team finds the middle way.
A few of you have latched on to one aspect of my post, but if you read my whole post, I'm arguing more than anything for CHOICES, OPTIONS, UNMATCHED CUSTOMIZATION. Which is something that has always made City of X great. Let's have more of that! -
Quote:Does anyone have a fact check on tap? What is this picture from? Something here just doesn't look right--especially with an ordinary Sue Storm waving in the background. And the art doesn't look anything like "these days", coming from a modern-day comic book reader. (In other words, I strongly suspect a misrepresentation for the sake of your argument, here.)Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
And Sue Storm? Even she has to wear a "cleavage window" outfit for formal occasions these days.
It is TRULY noble of you to come to the poor ladies defense, True Gentlemen; but I'm betting we'll see more and not fewer revealing choices as that parity continues to improve.Quote:Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
The other fact to keep in mind is that the population of video gamers is gradually achieving parity between men and women. It's now about 60/40, having once been overwhelmingly male. Moreover, women make up a significant percentage of the dedicated MMORPG playerbase in general.
-
Quote:The female characters I play are more modestly dressed, and I agree that it wouldn't hurt to see more variety in that department. But those four characters don't represent the average, and neither do your forum's complaints. Please keep that in mind! In the comics, for every Sue Storm, there are a gazillion Emma Frosts, Scarlet Witches, Wonder Women, Black Cats (here's looking at you, Virtue), Storms, Mystiques, Power Girls and She-Hulks. And it SELLS. Now, log in to the game and tell me if you see much difference.Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Because each costume piece has to be individually created (we can't CTRL+C, CTRL+V the pieces from male to female unfortunately
), this does mean that we will be offering less overall unique options, however we feel it's important to address this concern.
Back? Good. Now you know, many of your female players actually do enjoy their more revealing choices.
This is a comic book genre-based game, which is what the artists have been designing for. And the artistic direction in City of Heroes is the best out there. So please don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Do not hand the steering wheel to the forum community for the game's artistic direction. I'm not saying don't listen to the community. I'm saying we rarely represent your wider audience's tastes (CoT revamp and pre-tinting are probably exceptions, obviously), as sales have undoubtedly revealed time after time after time after time. -
Quote:Aha, thanks for linking that nice bit of history, I only just joined up a couple of years ago.Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Nemesis wanted a pony and Santa didn't give him one so he made himself one.
See this page:
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Third_Anniversary_Event -
Quote:Okay, forgive me my apparent ignorance, but...Originally Posted by Aneko
What the heck is THAT thing??? I mean, well, I see what it IS, but where did it come from? Is it something in testing, due for Issue 22?
WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN -
Win button with fast recharge.
-
Quote:This was my initial reaction too; but if you think it's creepy now, just wait until you see how Mot, a god of death, redecorates the place.Originally Posted by Gaming_Glen
I think the fog is great and don't have all that much trouble negotiating DA. I hope it stays.
-
Quote:Nice, that super hero is shooting a WATER BEAM out of his mouth!Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
-
Some good points. City of Heroes, owing to its comic book roots, has the perfect workaround for the "main character" debacle. And it's more than mere speculation-- whenever there's a new leader, you're notified that you're now experiencing the world as impacted by their actions.
Nerd explanation: Some quantum physicists suspect that in order for one possibility to exist, all possibilities have to be simultaneously occurring in their own spaces or potentialities (i.e. parallel dimensions). City of Heroes is not just a game about our characters, it's a game about other peoples characters and the potentialities they inhabit. When you join someone's team, it's a subtle shift, it's not designed for our characters to notice it, or even for players to think about it that much--but you're witnessing a world slightly different from your own. It's just an aid for internal consistency that allows us each to have a super hero's impact in a game with a lot of "main characters".
Gamer's explanation: Roll with it, roll with it. GO GO GO! -
Quote:Why?Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
If there were to be a CCG it'd be exclusive to NA
-
Oh, why don't you all go stuff it!
The turkey, that is!