Captain-Electric

Samuel, I like the way your explained your thoughts. You described me, in a nutshell. I can play City of Heroes no matter what kind of mood I'm in, because I've created characters for solo and support roles. It would be a loss, for me at least, if the game stopped moving in that direction. This thread has devolved into an argument about an acronym, based on an extreme version of reality that I'm happy to say I'm not a member of. My experience of the game is very much an experience of degrees like you describe. So I can't really contribute much to an extreme conversation like this. I feel like my posts are dismissed out of hand, simply because I'm not angrily flailing my virtual arms around.

I guess I'm an introvert.

Whatever Golden Girl can be accused of, outright fabrication of facts and quotes is not one of them. She knows whose side she's on and supports that side often. Ninety-nine percent of the time I'm in the same camp, and if I had more time to post, you'd all know about it. When it comes to development, what we are just now hearing about has been in the pipeline long beforehand. This goes for any day of the week. So you're better off playing an MMORPG with devs that you like. That is why almost any MMORPG I've ever played only kept my business for three months, tops. And it is why City of Heroes has kept my business for over two years now. I sympathize with those of you who always seem emphatically to be at odds with the devs, but I cannot relate to you at all.

Tony, you're correct about multifaceted play being more rewarding. The incarnate trials aren't the only facets of City of Heroes that I haven't really dived into yet, but I'm always up to something new. I'm relatively new compared to the age of the game. There's a lot for me to see and do, and I'm in no rush.

But I still think you've unintentionally taken the OP's wishes out of context. I don't think Fritzy is asking for all content to be 100% solo-friendly moving forward, and I don't think Fritzy is even talking about the seven years of content looking back. Fritzy seems to be concerned about future content taking a more narrow vision, compared to the awesome past 90% of content you keep bringing up.

A clarification from Fritzy would be great, right now. But if that's the case, I can support her position. But NOT only her position. I also support your side of the argument, but I think you should be nicer about it. I admire you for how much you do for the community, but at least in your original reply to the OP, you come off kind of like an insensitive jerk with an extreme point of view. The OP was very respectful. You can tell they put the time and effort into carefully wording their post. You should never tell someone like that where the door is, I don't care in what terms you couch it.

You'll notice I'm in the middle. Well it doesn't mean I don't know what my position ought to be. I think this a GREAT position to support in an online game with many thousands of customers. But to be honest, I would sorely be tempted to delete my posts from this thread if I felt no one had really noticed them. Because really I think Issue 22 stands to give players like me (when I'm in my solo moods) more of what we want. Why start complaining right before dinner's served? I don't know.

I'd like to see a discussion started about the need for small forced teams. I'm serious. The Halloween haunted house was great fun. I often make small teams purposefully, four or five people, because roles and strategies become much more important at that size, while also giving people room to let the personalities show. You can't just steam roll every mission, and winning against the bad guys really gives you all something to talk about. I have good memories about small teams I was on. Most of the 8-person teams I've been on are kind of a blur.

Taking a militaristic view over definitions of acronyms is no help. We should be thinking about what makes the game fun for those who play it. All of them. If this devolves into a discussion over an acronym, as I fear it will, then it will be everyone's loss. We could have a great community brainstorming session for ideas about solo-friendly content.

What's interesting is how many "I'll see its" might themselves be on the main characters lists, if they were characters in the movie. I know a few short-tempered jerks are going to see this movie, who fully expect to identify with the main characters. People for whom it doesn't take middle age, an inoperable tumor, and sobering retrospect to get them fed up at the world (it takes much less). Think about the little princess who is the dude's first victim. Someone like that in real life (they exist) would probably expect to love this movie--until that first scene came along that made her shift uncomfortably in her seat, for some reason that she wouldn't quite be able to put her finger on.

It's all about perspective!

A friend and I were discussing something similar to this recently. In my little corner of the Virtueverse, I am well-known as an organizer. Not necessarily as a leader. I know how to get a great group of RPers together in a short amount of time, and I can recognize The Right Stuff in leadership traits in order to pass off the star in preparation for a really fun night. Several people hit me up when they log on, to find out if anything's going on that evening. I've gotten used to this and have learned to let it fit me.

So this friend asked me what I'm up to in the days and weeks that occasionally pass when they don't see me online. They were surprised when I told them I was still playing City of Heroes during those times, by myself, with the /hideall command activated.

They were even more surprised when I told them I was still RPing, all by myself, in my imaginary adventures. I'm very connected to these fictitious creations of mine, no matter where they go. And just like many of my favorite comic book characters, several of my own characters have their solo episodes. Lots of solo episodes. (Though I sometimes use /unhideall and crawl out of my shell for those particularly epic end-of-arc missions, not because I can't solo them, but because in some cases it feels like it adds something to those stories.)

Most of our frustration seems to be coming from a subtle but meaningful reframing of the OP's argument that I doubt Fritzy would agree with. In fact, I could boil Fritzy's argument down to the distance between the Earth and Moon--that's how far off the game is from a "sweet spot", with respect to various playstyles in high level content. Fritzy isn't asking for the game to be changed. He/she is asking for the devs to consider additional solo-friendly, high-level content going forward, and expressing his/her hopes that Issue 22 will provide some of that.

I'm one of the devs biggest fans, but I haven't touched any of their Incarnate content. And it's not as if I'm even boycotting it. Oh, maybe I'll get around to it; but not today. I'll be enjoying smaller teams who work well together, teams that allow everyone's personalities to shine.

Publishers in the MMO genre learned years ago that their games paradoxically attract introverts. Where there's money to be made, money will be made. Unfortunately, Golden Girl and TonyV are right in this specific case, regarding high level content. They've pegged the devs narrowing vision to a T.

Well, I wish we could all be right.

Of course, the game should not be 100% solo-friendly, but that was never up for argument in the OP. A lot of frustration could be avoided here simply by listening.

A moon zone isn't the right idea. Just hear me out for a moment. It isn't that important, when you consider all the fun that takes place in instances.

What this game needs is more mission maps that take us to a greater variety of environments. Let your imagination run wild here. Be as epic as you want. Because no matter what you can think of (within reason), your idea could be implemented in mission maps--those places you go to for the real action--for a far greater return on the devs investment.

Let me ask you this. Would you rather have one moon base zone, or a pile of new mission maps featuring space station environments (maybe with giant windows overlooking Earth or Jupiter perhaps), visiting other planetary surfaces, time traveling to wild west towns, 1930s era Paragon, or ancient eastern cities? As an aside, what if that giant windows idea could be implemented into SG bases? How would you like your base to overlook Earth from orbit, or to appear situated on a mountaintop, or desert, or jungle?

But more down-to-Earth, how are you going to like it when your mission on the moon sends you to another "tech lab" map, Praetorian lab, or...warehouse? You might think you want a moon zone, but the truth is, after people have flown or ran around it a few times, many players won't think twice about it unless it's got a Wentworth's or some other necessity. But then, they won't be going for the moon zone, will they?

We need to get Paragon Studios excited about making new mission maps, so that we can DO stuff.

I know if a character will be sustainably enjoyable before the character enters the game for the first time, but I pay a price for this.

Whenever a new idea for a character hits me, it's like a meeting convenes between all the facets of my brain. The writer brings his notepad. The artist brings his sketchpad. Inks, marketing, shareholders, editors, publicists. This is an analogy, of course, but a lot of questions will arise, and I'll inevitably surprise myself. I couldn't explain the specifics of it, because I'm not consciously aware of the entire creative process. Suffice it to say, when I signed up for City of Heroes, I had no idea what I was in for.

Unlike so much other entertainment, City of Heroes turned out to be exercise for my brain, not junk food. My first few characters were long standbys, childhood comic book character creations. But on the day of my very first new character concept, my brain introduced me to my editorial staff. It was pure frustration. I didn't yet know why, but I couldn't bring myself to just "make it look cool, with some cool powers and stuff". Believe me, that was my intention. But the muse wouldn't let me off the hook. Not with the opportunity for such a wide open canvas. Not just another video game, this would be art.

My editorial staff wanted to know why I was doing this. What need is this character satisfying? I wish I could say this was fully analogous. But my inner self really demanded an answer from my outer self. "I...uh..." wasn't good enough. How would I feel about this character in a month? Six months? Was this idea sufficiently different, or was I falling lazily back on already-explored territory?

Well, it turned out, my brain was right. After seeing a movie, I really just wanted to play Iron Man that week, and the editorial board saw right through me. A couple of weeks later, after some negotiation and compromises, Moravec Man was my compensation prize. A former cop, one of the first disabled in the Rikti War, given a second chance through a donation of old power armor. No millionaire playboy. Just a good cop, dealt a bad hand, in a big metal suit. Two years later, I still love this character. He has a story now. A long story. He's not Tony Stark.

Since then, I've discovered, the difficulty in bargaining with the editorial board varies, depending on the character concept. Mostly, I just daydream, sleep on it, pace around the room for a while, write and doodle--Several days of this, before I even open the character editor.

Around the time Going Rogue came out, the muse upped the ante. A new idea had begun to gestate somewhere inside my brain, but after a couple of weeks, it was still trapped on the tip of my tongue. So I tried something new. I went to my local comic book shop, bought a guide on how to draw anatomy, and started learning how to sketch my ideas, not just see them as murky ideas in my mind. A few characters have come out of this, and many hours of enjoyment, and I learned how to draw a little.

The average time it takes for me to create a character in City of Heroes, from first thought to character registration, is between two weeks and six months. I have 25 characters. They are like little pieces of art. I enjoy playing them all, and they all bring something new and different to the game world. I have never gotten bored with any of them.

Thanks Aggelakis, but now I'm even more confused. I found those inspirations in the game earlier (they are under the Inspirations - Team category). But here is the in-game description of the Defense Imbuement: "Good Luck Imbuement Team Inspiration (Large) (+25% Defense to Team - Duration : 120 seconds) Quantity : 5"



120 seconds is only 2 minutes. What gives? Is this a typo? Or are the 5 minute inspirations still on the beta server?

ALL of the imbuements have 120 seconds or "Duration: instant" in their descriptions (I'm in-game right now, alt-tabbing to the forums).

I'm willing to admit that the following opinion may somehow be naive, because I can't see why I'm the first to share it.

Watchmen was a self-contained story arc, yes. A masterful one at that. I can see how this much is true. But that there shouldn't be any more stories featuring any of those characters, I can't see how that's true. It just looks like an arbitrary sacrifice to me, made on the altar of Alan Moore's colossal ego, carried on ever since by geek culture. Some people have repeated Moore's sentiment without ever reading a comic book. Any comic book. Ever. I'm referring to people I know. People like to say this at parties.

Comic book characters are serial fiction. An arc may have a beginning, middle, and end. But by their nature, comic book characters transcend those boundaries. An end arrives. You see the heroes ride into the sunset, toward some new adventure. Next month, you see where they went. That's life, when you're a comic book character. And there's nothing intellectually banal about this. For those like myself who also read novels, it's almost a kind of wish fulfillment, never having to wave goodbye to favored characters.

This is why I'm excited to hear about these comics. I don't care at all whether they're able eclipse the original title. In fact, for those who will inevitably compare and contrast these titles with the original, I think they will be misguided to do so. I'll gladly flip through my new rag, while the geek culture eloquently formulates a few cheap shots, as if they were deconstructing Steinbeck or Hemingway.

But it's a TRADITION! *Slams a fist on the table.*

I mean, uh, masks. I was talking about masks.

Now, where's my Heroines Illustrated?

If those two were wearing nice vigilante suits, it would be one thing. But as it is, two ordinary, unregistered citizens going around killing jerks? UNACCEPTABLE!!!

P.S. Someone needs to make a "Jerks" enemy group in AE now.

Longbow Contact: "Stop those Jerks from double-parking! Lethal force authorized!"

I looked in the store and couldn't find these. They weren't listed in any of the inspirations categories, at least not for me. Are you all talking about something that's on beta right now? And what exactly are their names? The OP doesn't make any mention of beta, and everyone else seems to be talking like they're on Live too.

(Please forgive my ignorance here, I happily helped beta test Issue 21 but there are just too many things in Issue 22 that I don't want to spoil for myself, before me and my friends RP through the content. So I am not beta testing Issue 22. I do my part, I have sent in a lot of bug reports in my meager two years, don't glare at me like that. )

Clicking through those threads, I actually care a lot about this decision, I'm realizing. So I'm going to stare hard at all of the pictures, and then sleep on it, and come back in a day or two and vote.

For anyone who was reading along with this thread, you may be interested to know that my idea has been well received, after all. Through PMs, some people have let me know that they're extremely warm to it. Including of course, Sin Stalker, who posted his support above and is, coincidentally, the founder of City of Comic Creators.

Just to be clear, this isn't some vindictive plan for posting fan-made material or advertising where it doesn't belong. Not that anyone has brought that up--yet. It's a preemptive reassurance. I'm not a member of the CCC, or a fan comic maker. I am a comic book reader who has been including some of these fan comics in my reading queue for several months now. Now, I want to start talking about them, and to get a few other people to check them out. Right here, in the Comic and Hero/Villain Culture forum, with all of the other comic book fan talk.

Hundreds of issues exist. Many City of Heroes players--even those with a taste for comics--have no knowledge of the existence of these fan comics, something I realized after I began bringing them up in-game. Many others have no idea of the breadth and longevity of the CCC's work, or only a vague idea.

I've said some nice things before, I'm not exactly coming out of the woodwork with my support. I've even been asked for Captain-Electric to appear in an upcoming fan comic (of course I said yes). My only problem is, I'm not on the forum a lot. I have zero personal desire to become a "forum personality", but I'd like to see authors such as the CCC do just that. I've seen people referred to as "forum celebrities" around here because they had big post counts, and they argue a lot. About nothing. Or everything. Whichever. We have this really creative bunch of people, but where are they? Well, they have to post in very specific sub-forums, because they can't talk about their work elsewhere, that's advertising.

But they can be talked about. That's not advertising, while at the same time, as we all know, it's the best kind. I want to come up with a way to talk about these comics and authors concisely, and with impact. I don't have the time in my life to do this alone, which is why I'm requesting those blurbs and graphics.

A few things I'll explain now, for the curious - Some of these comics are very faithful to canon, others not so much. Almost all of the earliest titles began very playfully, non-noncommittally. Many since have grown up to embrace their own continuity and in some cases a shared continuity. Many central characters are several years old now--in real time. No, they don't have high production values. Yes, they're very raw. They're fan comics. But it is a pleasure to watch this ambitious hobby appear out of nowhere, and solidify into something more substantive with every new issue and story arc.

I say "ambitious" because it is. In many cases, authors work in their spare time for several months to release just a single issue. Did you know that? Well, now you do. (Having learned this, one last thing - re-read paragraph 3.)

Night Hornet, the response caught me off guard, but it's totally understandable. Like I replied to Kinetic, no hard feelings. I thought it was a cool idea, BUT on the bright side of things, it's a relief to hear ya'll say you don't need the publicity, at least not to the degree envisioned in the OP. When I first stumbled onto fan-made City of Heroes comics, I just wouldn't have heard that!

All the best.

The difference here would be in who is attracting attention to your work. A reader, or an author? There are sound reasons for restricting authors from advertising their own work. Chief among them, protecting the integrity of this forum's intended subject matter, and preventing abusive spam.

Marvel, DC,Top Cow, and the major entertainment conglomerates do not hold a special Family-style territory over this forum. If a fan wants to bring some attention to independently created comics, he or she doesn't need a moderator's permission, or even the author's. If a moderator were to remove my single thread catalog listing from the constant stream of many hundreds of Marvel and DC related threads in this forum, the removal of my thread would not represent the prevention of spam. It would represent a belittling value judgement for independently produced comic books.

Within this forum, myself and others have posted lists of new, upcoming and noteworthy comics for discussion, review, or just to say, "Hey, check this out!" We're all just readers, talking about comic books. That's what the Comic and Hero/Villain Culture forum is for. And a good read is in the eye of the beholder, not the moderator.

In your replies, you both sound satisfied with the way things are set up, and don't seem enthusiastic about further exposure for your comic books through an additional channel. That actually surprised me to read! But I'm not upset, I promise. Awful ideas ought to remain on the cutting room floor, where they belong. What concerns me more is the notion that a fan shouldn't bring attention to independent comics in this forum, because that's exactly what the CCC makes. A stifling notion like that ought to be challenged and discarded in good taste. CCC comics are comics too!

P.S. Kinetic Kitty, I'll PM you later today; it sounds like you may have had a change of heart, but my idea just might not blast off. Right now my PM box is empty of blurb submissions, which doesn't bode well for a catalog listing.

P.P.S. If some of that sounded grumpily terse, it was unintentional, I was in a hurry before getting ready for work.

Hello, Kinetic Kitten. Yes, those are all sources that I'm familiar with. I use them regularly.

So, what I offered to do is a little different. A single catalog-style post, more akin to the reading chronologies that you can pick up in the comic book stores. The idea wasn't to supplant the official CCC thread and website (both great resources), but to offer something different in addition. A meatier version of the Announcements thread, each issue followed by the possibility for reader feedback and discussion. Where this would differ from the Announcements thread is in bringing more attention to the stories, authors, and readers. Lots of blurbs, lots of images, covers and previews, entire series and arc summaries, lots more of everything. Right here in the Comic and Hero/Villain Culture forum, along with all the other comic book talk. Working in public relations, writing press releases and press kits for a few years taught me that good press is often only a small effort away.

Well, here I am, a fan and reader, telling a CCC founder what comic creators could use around here. In truth, if comic creators felt they could use this avenue, I wouldn't need to talk you into it!

Either way, I'm one of your biggest fans, but I'm not crazy about this idea if you're not crazy about it. I appreciate the honest feedback, and absolutely no hard feelings--this wasn't for me, it was just an idea to give something back to ya'll.

Isn't that what this is?