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Posts
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I'm logging into the game if you want to team up, mark one item off your list, and save some old ladies purses.
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Please consider doing yourself and us a favor, and deleting the link in the OP. No, not to censor yourself. Please realize you're HELPING that guy. Right now is not the time to be focused on whether people like that are right. Right now is the time to believe in ourselves and do what we've always done--demand what we want as customers. Paragon Studios never told us to stop doing that, and never wanted us to stop doing that. Why should we change now, because of some dude's blog? The answer is obvious. We shouldn't.
The energy that it takes to get worked up over some jackass on the Internet--think about it--where does that energy ever go? What does it DO? What are you LEFT with? In the end, you're left with nothing but lost time; and lost time means lost opportunities. Especially right now.
There are a dozen "Calls to action" by the Titan Network littered throughout this forum that would only make you feel GREAT if you responded to them, or came up with your own ways to help. The same energy expenditure, but for something that'll raise our odds of keeping our game and community with every extra person who helps. In most cases, just by TYPING STUFF!
Or, yeah, you can like, sit at your computer and be angry about jackasses on the Internet. And type away about that. Choice is yours. But I really think it should be an easy choice. -
[Redacted.]
Felt great to type, felt responsible to delete.
I WILL say this. It's just not the time or place to be pushing that crap in people's faces. Not here, given the circumstances.
Show some restraint and tact, if you have any. Some of us aren't ready and willing to throw our arms around the publisher who nuked the best studio ever without warning. Don't tell me about other studios. You can't give your money to ArenaNet without also giving it to NCSoft. -
Sure. Great. With loyal customers like you, NCSoft might not regret closing City of Heroes.
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Quote:Net-7 decrypted, reverse engineered, reverse hacked (no dupin naow folks, sowwy), spit, greased, bled, sweat, cursed--and then got to work proving that a EULA is no match for love.That is good stuff there. How did they do it? Did they aquire the IP and codes and go to work from there or did they just replicate it?
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I wasn't going to post anything about this until after November 30, because I'm here until the bitter end, and I wish everyone else felt like I do, but it seems like a bunch of you are dealing with it in your own ways. For those readers who played (or ever wanted to play) Earth and Beyond, I want you to see another choice.
Earth and Beyond Emulator, an Online Role-playing Galaxy
http://www.net-7.org/
http://forum.enb-emulator.com/
EA shut Earth and Beyond down in September 2004. The exact sunset date was etched into my brain for years--it was one of the saddest days of my gaming hobby, second only to August 31, 2012. But a community rose from the ashes, surrounding a group of talented programmers, animators, artists and bug hunters--all players--calling themselves Net-7 Entertainment. The Titan Network's dedication has often reminded me of Net-7 Entertainment, and I always suspected that if CoH's final days beckoned, the Titan Network would step up.
If you want to imagine how far a group like the Titan Network's dedication can stretch, think about the fact that hundreds of disenfranchised Earth and Beyond die-hards spent nearly a decade getting their beloved game back to a feature-complete beta state--and those were different days, with probably less than a quarter of the player base that City of Heroes enjoys. Five years of that were almost completely thankless, filled with seemingly insurmountable bugs and other setbacks. My biggest alpha-testing guinea pig was a nephew that helped me find bugs on my private server to report on the forums, before they had a publicly funded server that could hold several hundred players without crashing.
I recommend this game because it still looks and plays great (the way that textures work, your higher resolution video cards and monitors will make you think you're seeing a graphics overhaul). Also, part of the reason City of Heroes lured me in was because of all the similar design elements in the areas of class customization and a rich, story-driven game universe that's GREAT to team up in and benefit from role-based abilities, ship components, and buffs. Plus that, when you're done customizing your character, you get to design a ship using various parts, textures, and colors whose concepts were imagined by Doug Chiang. And Net 7 Entertainment has taken it to the next level(!), adding in-game features like shared character vaults, offline access to your inventories, entire new solar systems and accessible planets, and those three mythical character classes that never made it into the game (including their ships). And--folks, the content designers have the original Story Bible (it's available for anyone to see if they want).
It's a tight-knit community all on one server, a community that knows what hard times are like, paid for by grateful (and optional) player donations that have always exceeded the funding goals, enabling the dev team to power this player-run game with some dreamy technology. When school's out, the concurrent users have spiked to nearly a thousand. There are always players flying around and looking to team up. The players didn't just take back their game. They made it better. -
Quote:Word for word, this describes the stance I'll default to after November if NCSoft carelessly sacrifices our community (carefully worded form letters to the Press notwithstanding) without first seeking another home for it. My stance certainly does not matter in and of itself, but I have a feeling it matters along with thousands of other customers and all the ill-will they're capable of spreading over the next decade. I was there in September, 2004 in the last moments before Earth and Beyond's servers flickered out for the last time (Galileo server forever! Jenquais forever!). I watched (and helped) that community stick their thorns in EA's side for years and years afterward--efforts which did NOT go unnoticed LOL (and now we're all playing our game again--for free on our own serversI don't want to speak about the legality of the whole thing, but I will say this:
If a company takes a 6-month subscription from me and then shuts down the service three months later (as is my case), it owes me three months of subscription. If the company flatly refuses to do the right thing and instead gives me vouchers for its other products that I don't want, then I no longer want anything to do with the company.
I know I have a reputation as a hothead around here, but this only extends to situations where I actually care and respect the source of the argument. I'll argue and rage about City of Heroes because I love the game. But NCsoft? I find their conduct throughout all this to be repugnant. To the point, in fact, where I no longer care to be angry at them. This has gone beyond anger and into blacklisting. If that's how NCsoft treat their customer, then I will simply take my business elsewhere and never come back.
Keep my money and keep your vouchers, NC. You no longer interest me in the slightest. Welcome to the ranks of UbiSoft and EA.). Trust me and stay away from the lame-o club, NCSoft. Not the road you want to go down! Do the right thing while there's still time!
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Quote:This is the ONLY thing in your (admittedly sensible) reply that I take issue with, because it is contrary to everything I wrote in my post here and in my open letter to NCSoft. Electric-Knight's analogy of another shelf to rest on is what I'm getting at: when it comes time to clean house, a book worth reading is a book worth passing on to a willing steward. I think the individual consumer can get away with tossing a few books in the trash over the course of their life, but when a big corporation dumps an abandoned warehouse full of crates--crates full of books worth reading--it takes laziness and unethical irresponsibility to a whole new level (sorry, couldn't help it). A society that doesn't take big businesses to task for this is a society that accepts its own collective culture as disposable. The diversity of media does not change our responsibility to preservation, where preservation is possible. In this case it was, and is, wholly, entirely possible. But NCSoft never reached out for a new steward.But to imply that NCSoft has some sort of moral obligation to keep the game open for the sake of knowledge?
Might seem like a lame opportunity to bring this larger issue up, but then again, this IS one of my largest issues with this mess. Surely, it would be worse if no one ever said anything. -
Quote:Sorry to keep posting, but I just want to say, yes, this is how I meant it. I think we'll need more of that. A lot more. More than we've ever given and possibly more than any game community has.for how i read his post, it wasnt that yesterday was small, but rather that we need to keep on doing things to get attention, not just have yesterday and forget it.
Sure, I'd rather be wrong.
(But I do think, in the event that I'm right, that we ARE the community for the mission.) -
Quote:That final point I made in my post was actually the first tragic point that entered my mind when the news broke. I alluded to it in the second paragraph of my open letter to NCSoft, if subtly. And, truth be told, it has concerned me that more people haven't brought it up, and don't bring it up when situations like this arise. It makes me feel like I'm living in a culture that is willing to embrace the reality of that final sentence in my "td;lr" post with nary a second thought.This is a terrific point, and runs parallel to something I've been chewing over since the announcement.
Thanks for articulating it for me, I'll give you a shout out when I finally finish the post... -
Lulipop. I took you off ignore. I probably shouldn't have told you to go screw yourself.
I suppose this is the part where you think about how to punish me for giving you the benefit of the doubt. That's fine if that's really all you think you amount to. But I remember when you first showed up here, you said some real sensible things here and there. Maybe I just missed all the trolling posts you were making, but I remember thinking you seemed like a bright person.
Quote:I know this is the Internet and I'm supposed to be debating your disagreements or something, but ya'know, a reply like this is just really great to read. Maybe rose-colored glasses are bad, but optimism is essential. Your attitude is why this game and community rocks, and is worth showing up for, and worth saving.I do know for a fact that it's been more than enough to be heard. And there's no intent on letting it end here. -
Phoenix, I would love nothing more than for you to be right, and for all of that to have been enough. Believe me.
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Actually, Lulipop? Go screw yourself. And congrats on being the first person on my ignore filter.
Repost below.
There might be a likelihood they were planning to push their other (completely irrelevant) games on us as part of the normal sacrificial routine, and now that it's clear it isn't going to work this time on this community, the CEO has ordered his minions to scramble for some other self-serving plan.
What we as a community NEED to keep in mind, is that NCSoft COULD make themselves out to be the "hero" of their industry by caving to our demands. And that would be great! However, big companies do not normally stay ahead by caving to everyone's demands. It only works when it's a very publicly visible demand. If yesterday's Atlas Park rally represents our outcry's crescendo, then we may as well pick up all of our toys and go home. But if we did that (or something just as noticeable) EVERY Saturday? Maybe now we're talking.
This will ONLY benefit NCSoft if it is crystal clear to anyone watching that NCSoft is responding generously to an enormously massive outcry. We keep thinking about our interests, but it's only effective (for them, as a business), if it's an opportunity for them to be publicly recognizable as a company that "listens to its customers" -- not just a company that panders to 'just another angry flash mob crying about the end of their game'. I hope most of us recognize there's a difference. We need to KEEP handing a GREAT PR OPPORTUNITY to them on a silver platter.
Please take all of this with a grain of salt. I'm just another blowhard on the Internet with an opinion. But after yesterday's rally, I noticed that most of the Internet-at-large had branded our community the "City of Children" (and a bag full of other colorful titles) within hours, and completely misunderstood our protest banners as being, well, PROTEST banners. THE PUBLIC AT LARGE IS STILL NOT AWARE THAT WE HAD A UNITY RALLY. And if you want more of my opinion, I think a significant portion of the player base also believed themselves to be attending an angry protest against NCSoft. Someone mentioned that players should have been using the /e lotus emote instead, or other similarly non-aggressive postures. That person is a genius. Wish we'd listened to the genius. Oh, well, maybe next time.
The public at large, the larger media outlets, and bigger celebrity endorsements aren't going to attach themselves to our community if they believe we're just blowing off steam before we give up, succumb to ADHD and move on to our next fix. A dozen EVEN BIGGER rallies (and whatever else Tony and his Titans have up their sleeve, I'm excited to find out) could prove that assumption wrong, and could prove that we're standing up for something substantially meaningful. I can't speak for what you, the reader, is most upset about. You all have your own reasons. But, personally, I came here for the stories. So many stories, intricately tied to such a rich universe, created by developers and players alike, many of which any successful author might have labeled masterpieces of fiction, moral wisdom or insight into the human condition.
For those who are crying out that this isn't just about "a game," I believe many of you are more right than you may realize. There is no humane excuse for NCSoft to sacrifice such valuable cultural artifacts along with its customers interests. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT THAN BURNING BOOKS. City of Heroes and its wealth of shared creations represent a new kind of publication in a new age of media. As we head further into the Digital Age, people will occasionally HAVE to make a stand for the public value of knowledge held within server-based storage media, as well as our inherent right as humans to continued access to the wealth of knowledge, imagination, and experience we build in these shared environments. Otherwise, say hello to a future where the human legacy that has mattered the most since before the dawn of civilization (shared knowledge, from thousands of years of campfire tales all the way to new media) is terrifyingly disposable. -
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I'll be there, but I'll be using the AE TF trick (mentioned plenty above) to stand on the steps without going AFK and autologging while I'm out of the apartment for the evening. So, for any in-game friends who see this post, please let anyone know what's up if you see them attempting to communicate with me.
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Quote:You need to print that out and send it physically to the NCSoft offices...In any case, this is a fantastic letter. It needs to be sent physically.
Something awesome. Something appropriately symbolic. Something better than that burning suns line everyone laughed at. Well, here it goes!
The OP is handwritten and certified mailed.
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If someone from NCSoft reads this, I just want to say thank you for everything you gave to Cryptic and then to the wonderful Paragon Studios over the years, and by extension, gave to your customers. I greatly admire NCSoft for all that you have have accomplished over the last decade.
As a City of Heroes fan, it should come as no surprise that I admire stories that enrich the mind and spirit. There are books of such stories that have remained in print even after thousands of years, and will hopefully remain in print for as long as people exist who need to read them. I have no doubt that NCSoft's management has benefited from some of our species most ancient written wisdom. And, lo, how many publishers did it take to get those stories into your hands? A long lineage indeed. City of Heroes is full of stories that enrich the mind and spirit. Stories of honor and heroism unique to its fictional universe, stories which are in danger of forever disappearing from a world that desperately needs them. These stories made City of Heroes into what the Press has called a cult classic among MMOs: a much sought-after sentiment for publishers and their game studios.
Dear NCSoft, Paragon Studios and its customers are the most loyal developers and customers I have ever seen in any MMO since subscribing to Ultima Online in 1997 or any MMO since. They deserve special treatment, because by industry standards, they are special. They are honorable, and they deserve to be honored. They deserve a few extra miles, because they've gone a few extras miles. How many other games have City of Heroes retention rates? How many other games enjoy such respect by fans in multiple industries within and outside of MMOs?
NCSoft, if you and any potential investors will listen to our most passionate plea, let me assure you and them that after the dust settles, these players will still be here, doing what they they've done since the launch of City of Heroes: Freedom. Opening their wallets. Most of us don't seem to be going anywhere until you make us leave. And even then, most of the games that people are going to aren't NCSoft games. They're super hero MMOs. Please don't let that happen. Please help give City of Heroes a lasting legacy that will stand as a testament to NCSoft's ingenuity and commitment to its fans for many years to come. A home that can care for it. City of Heroes is so much more than just a product or service to so many thousands of your customers.
I just have to say, I'm SO PROUD that there are SO MANY players and groups within the game who are doing their best to keep people having fun, keep them together, and KEEP PLAYING CITY OF HEROES while it's still breathing. It's the end of their world and all of its stories, and they know it, but they're not leaving unless and until City of Heroes is ripped out of Paragon City's cold, dead streets. This is what any potential investor could have access to--the holy grail in this industry: customers who don't just like it here, but LOVE it here, and will fight tooth and nail to keep it.
There is a whole army of players who sprung to action immediately and are doing their DAMNEDEST right now to hold things together on their end, organizing impromptu events, trials, mission teams and parties 24/7. They're playing to their strengths, in the best way they know. Many of our community's biggest heroes right now have a post count of zero on the forums. The outpouring of support you see when you visit these forums is spectacularly immense, but what you might not know is that it isn't adequate to describe the overwhelming number of fans Paragon has--you're only seeing a fraction of it.
You'll never know just how much some fans have done, and are doing, never see how devastated they were and yet how quickly they got back up and started DOING something inside their beloved game and community. Their spirit and loyalty is greatly inspiring, and such spirit and loyalty should not be scattered to the winds.
Please don't forget them. Please don't send ANY of us away without hope. You have been so lucky to have them, NCSoft. I understand and respect that you're a big company with a big vision, and I fully support you making decisions that reflect your goals. When I ask that you consider giving the game another home, I do not do so in order to imply that you should be charitable to another publisher. I do so in order to request, with much respect and admiration, that you might consider a final charity to the fans of City of Heroes. Even though City of Heroes numbers and sales have naturally declined in the course of industry realities, many potential investors and publishers might still see a satisfactory benefit from having the game in their stable. Everyone would win, and your customers would show their respect and gratitude (and open wallets) to you in the years to come. By our perception, you would quickly become better than your competition. That perception would remain profitable for you, NCSoft, long after City of Heroes had moved to its new home under another publisher. -
Quote:Even though we're on the same side, this post does kind of make my point above. The difference between the Golden and Silver ages of comics is not a matter of semantics, and maybe in this case, we've presented the devs with a real problem in our pursuit of these pieces. I'm willing to admit that, even if it flies in the face of some of my previous posts. We may need to start trying to do a better job of defining exactly what it is we want to the devs. I say "we" because consensus does matter when it comes to getting what we want. We could use a little more cooperating and a little less mud slinging.You know, I thought about responding to your points, but then I actually looked at what you wrote and saw that your own bolded word of semantics is precisely what you're arguing. Done with your ridiculousness. Enjoy tilting at another windmill somewhere else. It's apparently your forte.
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Quote:I do agree with this, however unfortunate that seems for my cause (to use the word loosely). The reason I throw in with the Silver/Golden Age requests is partly because, well, my personal requests may sound great to you Premonitions, but look how much feedback they've gotten in this thread since you replied to them. None. That is how much feedback those ideas generally get. A positive nod or two at most. People just don't want contemporary era super hero costumes. I wish they did, but more posting would probably not earn me any more traction than it has here.My point is the request for "Gold/Silver age" is not as coherent as those asking for other things because it's actually two, and maybe three, different requests pushed together.
So what's the next best thing? Well, the Silver Age. Except, I began to realize in Xanatos and Noble Savage's threads that a lot of people were referring to designs from Silver Age comics as Golden Age concepts, and I remember how Noble Savage had to struggle to pin down people's actual tastes. Within the game, I can't tell you how many times a player has run up to a Silver Age-inspired character of mine and said "Nice Golden Age suit." So, here is a problem that I guess I noticed a long time ago: lots of people don't know the difference between the Golden and Silver ages of comics. I'm not the only one to notice and I've seen people create huge posts full of comic book art depicting the differences. However, evidently this hasn't helped enough because, like you say, people are still asking for Golden/Silver Age packs. My suggestion would be for a dev to make an official poll, including comic book art depicting the differences right smack in the OP--so people have to look at it and think about it. -
Quote:Show of hands - how many people would be OK with "painted-on" clothes and masks being turned into actual separate 3D meshes that apply as details AND NOT parts of the base texture? I actually wouldn't mind, because this retains the utility of "painted-on" clothes, in that you can apply them over a variety of base textures, but it also stops them looking like paint.Quote:Right, right, right, of course. But I mean as a means of getting base skin customization AND dual-colour customization on the actual costume pieces AND solving the problem of "the wet t-shirt." I'm never in favour of taking things out of the editor, I'm just brainstorming a way we can have everything nice.
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I like exclusives, I like them a lot and I think they'll always have a place in social games, but none of the supporting studies I've read have tracked or considered the benefits of individual exclusive items over the long term. It's also been a couple years since I've read a study on them at all and the landscape has changed in the industry. But I think I agree with those who would prefer the exclusivity of these perks to be timed. I have an unfounded suspicion that exclusive items in games like City of Heroes, as wonderful as they are, do lose their benefit over time for the average player, both the have and the have-not. It's easy to suspect by reading occasional threads like this one that we have these perks that were great in their day because they helped sell a pre-order or special edition; but now, the way they're packaged, I don't know, maybe they're causing the studio a disservice. They're a resource that takes money and time to make, but can no longer be monetized, and they inevitably lose value in the eyes of the players who own them while creating a negative experience for players who don't. Candy for the players today, poison for the studio tomorrow.
I thought it was great how dual pistols and demon summoning were handled.