Call Me Awesome

UPDATE for Issue 20 including inherent Fitness
Since I wrote this a couple of years ago the Dev's have seen fit to grant every AT in the game with a sizable buff by making the entire Fitness pool inherent. What this means for all of us is that we no longer need to devote three power choices to acquire the Stamina power thus giving us far more flexibility in our builds, particularly in our pre-level 20 builds. Because we no longer need to shoehorn Hurdle/Health/Stamina in by level 20 we're free to get powers that help our durability and/or our offense.

As an added bonus we also got a brand new inherent ability, Bruising. This ability was added to our Tier one attack and it applies a -20% resistance debuff on our target for 10 seconds. What that means in plain English is that the enemy you hit with your tier one attack will take more damage, an attack that would normally do 100 points of damage would hit a Bruised enemy for 120 points of damage. It's not just your damage either, you've softened up that baddie so your Blaster teammate can hurt him more as well.

Now, on to the revised guide:

I've seen people asking about just how to build their Invuln tanker, and I thought I'd post a mini-guide to help new tankers through the first 20 levels. Many Invuln tankers end up with very substandard builds in the early levels, mainly because they had no idea what the critical powers to get were. This guide applies to any secondary you might want to pair with your Invulnerable tanker.

Those of you who already know the game can skip this part.

For those just joining us I should probably digress a bit and discuss the way damage and your powers work in the game. First, you need to know that damage comes in different types, with Smashing and Lethal being most common (abbreviated S/L) while other types such as Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold, Toxic and Psi being less common (E/N, F/C, T, P). Defenses and resistances typically protect against a pair of damage types hence they're referred to as S/L for a power that protects from Smashing & Lethal, E/N for a power that protects from Energy & Negative and so forth.

Expanding on that a bit any attack that uses punches, kicks, hammers or anything like that is what we would call "smashing" damage. "Lethal" damage includes things like guns, knives, swords, claws and similar. "Energy" damage is things like electricity, lasers and other "light" attacks while "negative" would be dark attacks. An example of negative damage is the blasts that the Skul's gang in the low levels use. "Fire" and "cold" are pretty self explanatory, fireballs and flamethrowers are fire while ice bolts are cold. "Psi" is the catagory that mental attacks fall under and it's quite rare in the game. "Toxic" is poison attacks and it's the rarest damage in the game.

Smashing and Lethal are the most common damage types and those you'll encounter most often throughout the entire game; from the figures I've seen roughly 70% of all damage falls into that category. Energy and Negative would be the second most common damage and it accounts for about another 20% of what you'll face while Fire, Cold and Psi are quite rare. Toxic is almost nonexistent outside of a very few situations, although you'll face a fair amount early dealing with Vahzilok (sp?). After level 20 Toxic nearly vanishes from the game until a few high level encounters in the 40's.

Here's an outline for your Invuln tanker's early career:

A good thumb rule for building an Invulnerable Tanker would be something like this:

• Level 1 - Temp. Invulnerability & tier one attack - TI is one of the four most vital powers in your build so get it right away. It provides three times the protection that your other choice, Resist Physical Damage, does (30% S/L resistance vs 10%). The Tier one attack is an example of Hobson's Choice although thanks to the new Tanker inherent power of Bruising it's usefulness has climbed dramatically.

• Level 2 - Dull Pain - This is another of your four cornerstone powers; I wouldn't delay it much and given the lack of choices this is, in my opinion, the ideal time for it. It provides a huge heal for you and it drastically increases your total hit points for 2 minutes after you hit it.

• Level 3 - 2 slots available, place in TI or Dull Pain.

• Level 4 - Tier 2 or 3 attack depending on your secondary, some you're better off with one over the other. For most secondaries the Tier 3 is the better choice.

• Level 5 - two slots into your level 4 attack

• Level 6 - Your travel power prerequisite. (For Fly that would be Air Superiority or Hover, for Super Jump that would be Combat Jumping, for Super Speed it would be Hasten and for Teleport it would be Recall Friend)

• Level 7 - 2 slots to distribute, candidates are Temp. Invuln, Dull Pain or your level 4 attack.

• Level 8 - Unyielding - this is your Mez protection and the third and arguably most vital of your cornerstone powers and you want to take it ASAP. With this power active you're almost totally immune to all hold, sleep, knockback, immobilize and stun effects and it provides minor S/L resistance and a bit more E/N/F/C resistance.

• Level 9 - 2 slots in Unyielding

• Level 10 - Taunt, you have to wait until 18 for your taunt aura. Alternately whichever of your attacks you didn't get at level 4.

• Level 11 - 2 slots to distribute, candidates for them are TI, DP and your attacks.

• Level 12 - This is an "open" selection, good candidates are Resist Physical Damage or Boxing (from the Fighting Pool, you'll need that pool if you want to build for maximum durability)

• Level 13 - 2 slots available, by this point you're probably starting to notice endurance being an issue so I'd put them into Stamina.

• Level 14 - Travel power (Fly, Super Jump, Super Speed or Teleport)

• Level 15 - 2 slots available

• Level 16 - This is an "open" selection, good choices are RPD, Boxing or Tough (Fighting Pool) or another power.

• Level 17 - 2 slots available

• Level 18 - Invincibility - this is the fourth of the cornerstone powers in your build and should be taken immediately. It provides a large amount of defense that increases with the number of baddies around you, provides a tohit bonus that also increases with the number of baddies around you so it's easier to hit them and it's your taunt aura so it attracts attention and makes the baddies STAY clumped around you.

• Level 19 - 2 slots in Invincibility

• Level 20 - Another "open" selection, candidates are your tier 5 or 6 attack, another power from the Fighting Pool or a power of your choice.

• Level 21 - 2 slots available

At this point you should have roughly the following:
TI - 4 slots
Tier 1 attack - 3-4 slots
Dull Pain - 5 slots
Tier 3 or 2 attack - 5 slots
Unyielding - 3-4 slots
Invincibility - 3 slots
Stamina - 3 slots

Your other powers are fine with the default slot for now, you may look to add some to them later on in the build. Now on your slotting... I would suggest slotting TI & Unyielding with 3 resist/1 endred, Dull Pain should get 3 recharge/2 heal and your attacks should get 1-2 accuracy/2-3 damage and 1 endred. Invincibility should get 2-3 defense/1 endred. You'll save more end with one endred in an attack than you will by slotting 2 endred in ALL of your toggles, so keep that in mind if you have end problems.

That pretty well covers your bases to level 20, from there on it will depend on your secondary. Boxing/Tough/Weave from the Fighting Pool are needed if you want to maximize your durability, thanks to Inherent Fitness you can get them early now. Also be sure and pick up Tough Hide at level 26, it's a nice chunk of endurance-free defense. I recommend fitting in Resist Energies sometime, probably in the 20's... it can wait until very late if you're really tight on your build though. Resist Elements is entirely skippable. If you're building for the defense soft cap (see the guide in my sig) you may find Unstoppable to be skippable as well.

[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to the trouble of deleting it, why not kick your friends? That way you'll have your base when you come back? It sounds kinda rude to kick them but you'll do it anyway if you delete the SG.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the only way to delete a SG was for it to have no members... in other words kick everyone and then quit yourself. Am I wrong about that?

Let me preface this by saying I'm a blueside player; I've never played a villain past level 15. With that said, I have teamed with several high level Brutes on various ITF's.

To play, Tanker. I've tried Brutes to the mid-teens (highest I've gotten anything redside) and I find Fury to be detrimental to survivability. Brutes are way too unpredictable; I know exactly what my tankers can do, and they'll do it in any situation. The Fury mechanic causes too much extreme variation in ability. And, of course, Brutes don't have the aggro handling abilities of a good tanker.

To play with, assuming I'm NOT playing one of my tanks, definitely a Tank, provided he's competent. Absent a competent tanker give me a good Scrapper any day. I've teamed with many Brutes on ITF's and frankly I've found them to generally be squishier than some Scrappers, to say nothing of a true tanker. I haven't ever teamed with a Brute who didn't decide to run off and taste the floor. Tanks are much more team friendly.

Hmm, well my stable of Scrappers goes something like:
BS/Regen - 50
Spine/Regen - 50
BS/Shield - 45
BS/Regen - 25
Claw/SR - 18
Spine/Dark - 15
Kat/WP - 9

So from that we can deduce that BS is the most common attribute of Scrapperdom Whodathunkit?

In seriousness I've noticed that Regen is probably the most common secondary and DA seems to be the least common. Primary wise the Swords seem very common with DM being fairly rare... the others seem to fit in between. This is, of course, a totally unscientific and anecdotal listing based largely on my perception.

My first 50, Call Me Awesome, an Inv/Stone tanker hit 50 in roughly 250 hours back in issue 3 (technically issue 4, as he made the ding on day one of issue 4).

Really, hours played is the only way to fairly measure the 1-50 time; someone who plays 6+ hours a day, 7 days a week will obviously advance faster than someone who plays a couple of hours a week, and someone who focuses on one character will move faster than someone who plays a lot of different characters. On a straight time measure I think it was probably roughly 3-4 months after I joined the game before I got CMA to 50... he was the second character I rolled up.

Since that time I've gotten 11 characters to 50... and they've taken from 400 hours (the longest, on my Dark Defender) to 75 hours (My Archery/EM blaster on a SG team). I expect that record to change shortly as my Broadsword/Shield scrapper is currently sitting at level 45 with 40 hours of play; nearly all of that with a superteam of 4 Shield scrappers.

Over the issues there have been several changes to XP and leveling speed; today it's MUCH faster to level than it used to be even without using the Architect missions. 1-22 is easily doable in 12 hours for a good player with a decent team, even faster running some of the Architect missions.

Like Kruunch said, Stone followed by a soft capped Invuln are the tanks of choice for the STF. I've done it with both and it's pretty much a tossup; the Stone is slightly more durable but the Invuln doesn't have the mobility & recharge penalties. Of the two I prefer the Invuln.

One thing that doesn't make sense, you're having problems finding a STF team with a Controller? When I'm recruiting for a STF I look first for 'trollers, then defenders. Blasters & Scrappers come after I've gotten all of the 'trollers & defenders I can find. One tanker is plenty for any team.

I look primarily for Fire, Illusion or Earth controllers, for secondaries I look first for Rad, then Kin. Defenders I want Rad, Kin or Dark as a first choice but really any well played defender is an asset. Debuff sets are generally stronger than Buff sets, but I certainly wouldn't say no to a force fielder or a sonic.

[ QUOTE ]
Heh, side switching is going to be interesting....

Imagine Siren's Call with 50 Villain Stalkers vs 50 Hero Stalkers...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, my reaction to the entire PvP thing has basically been a big "who cares?" I've been in the Arena exactly twice since issue 4... once right after they were introduced and again for an event a few years later. Both times it amounted to a waste of my time without offering much entertainment.

I've twice gone into the zones with the intention of PvP, once shortly after issue 6 and once a few issues later, both times left me completely cold. I do go after Shivans frequently and very rarely see any opponents... when I do nearly every time both of us leave each other alone.

The few times I've gone into Warburg after nukes I've run straight into the 12 year old trash talking mentality... I won't tolerate that at home and I'm sure as heck not going to tolerate it in a game. I don't mind competition, I don't even mind loosing. What I will not tolerate is the attitude that seems to infest PvP.

In looking over the boards and in my own conversations in-game that's the biggest contributor to the antipathy the CoX playerbase has towards PvP. This is, for the most part, an adult population game; I believe I've seen figures pointing to an average age in the mid-20's with many players in their 30's & 40's... I even know a few in their 60's. PvP tends to attract an immature attitude that sits poorly with the more mature playerbase as a whole. As someone who's... shall we say south of 40, I dislike dealing with a gloating, trash talking kid.

A couple of thoughts...

First, I'm not sure that third Zephyr in CJ and SJ is worth slotting; I'd yank those slots and toss them into Stamina; you'll need them there.

Secondly, I've always found Hurdle to be far more useful than Swift, particularly with a jumper... it stacks for a highly noticeable increase in jump distance and speed.

I'd slot Dull Pain up a bit more as well.

Invincibility, once you're 47+, is best slotted with 3 Hami-O Cytoskeleton; that ED caps the def/tohit/endred. I add one common Taunt IO in a 4th slot.

You're WAY over the soft cap for S/L/F/C/E/N defense, I would rob a slot from TI, Uny & Res Elements and use them in Siphon Life. I'd also move Taunt quite a bit earlier in the build. You can easily sacrifice the defense; outside of a very few situations 50% is no better than 45%. Personally I would almost completely disregard the F/C defense; those are very rarely encountered damage types.

Your build will work; it offers good damage in your attacks with overkill defenses... I think a small amount of reshuffling will end up with a better overall build however.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A Kin who doesn't have or use SB probably won't get booted from my team, it takes more than that for me to kick someone. However, they also won't be picked for the team next time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice to know you define an entire power class by a single power within it.

Note, please, that I'm not saying you HAVE to team with these people. That's your prerogative. I just find the definition being tossed around for a "gimped" or "lazy" Kin somewhat self-serving at best.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have played several Kins myself, including a Mind/Kin controller to 50. I know well just what a well played Kin can bring to the team. Speed Boost is a rather large part of just what a Kin can bring however... it's like an Empath not bothering to use Fortitude. Sure he can contribute in other ways, but he's neglecting a major team force multiplier. It isn't the +end of SB that's most valuable for a mature build, it's the additional recharge.

But I've said all this before and at this point I'm not sure if you genuinely don't understand just how much that 21 seconds of effort every 2 minutes buys the team or you're deliberately being contrary. Apparently you've made up your mind that somehow a Kinetic doesn't need SB to provide maximum benefit to the team... and that's simply dead wrong. He can contribute certainly, but he's not going to provide the same level of contribution that a Kin who uses SB does.

Let's turn things on their side so to speak... Let's say the Kin can't be bothered to take or use Fulcrum Shift instead of SB. Would you say that he was still contributing as much as one who did? How about the Empath who skips Fortitude, would you say they were providing the same benefit as one who didn't?

[ QUOTE ]
well, let's see. the hami raid gives 40 merits or a hami-o. with 40 merits you can get 2 random rolls in which you could end up with 100 mil+. with a hami-o you can get 1 random hami-o and it could be 2mil - 25 mil or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your odds of getting something worth over a million are higher for the HO than the Merits, but you won't get anything enormously valuable (50 mill or more). It depends on what you want to do, if you're going for cash then do you feel lucky? Then you may want to take the merits for the (small) chance of getting something highly valuable, a moderate chance of something in the 1-10 million range and a good chance of getting vendor trash.

Personally I would take the HO; sure there's a decent chance of a worthless Centriole (dam/range) but there's also a likelihood of getting something valuable. Even the worst HO is going to be worth more than a Crap of the Hunter.

Unless the drop tables for HO's have changed you're most likely to get a Nucleous (Acc/Dam) which should have decent value followed by a nearly worthless Centriole (Dam/Range). The real winners, Ribosome (Damres/Endred), Microfillament (Travel/Endred) and a few others are pretty rare. From issue 4 until issue 9 I participated in probably 500 Hami raids... in that time I got 8 Ribosome drops and 3 Microfillament drops. Cytoskeleton were relatively common however and have decent demand; pretty much anything but Centrioles and Lysome (Acc/tohit debuff/def debuff) have decent demand and value.

[ QUOTE ]
You still miss the point. That it's their toon. NOT YOURS.

If they wish to forego a power to buff themselves or the team in another way it's none of your business. If you don't like it, don't team with them. Do them that favor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. Something I can completely agree with.

They can build however they like, however build decisions and play decisions do carry consequences. Good players are remembered, poor players are as well and I try to maximize the good to bad ratio of players I team with. A Kin who doesn't have or use SB probably won't get booted from my team, it takes more than that for me to kick someone. However, they also won't be picked for the team next time.

A Kin who keeps buffs up, handles all the other various chores of the powerset and is a competent player? Definitely a place on my "look to invite again" list. One who is hit or miss on buffs but isn't a complete waste of time? A place on the "adequate" list. One who can't be bothered to buff? A place on the "don't invite again" list, but unless they're disruptive not a kick. One who not only can't be bothered to buff but gets snippy about it? >Kick<.

Just like when I'm playing one of my squishies if we get a good tanker I will certainly remember and try to recruit them again. If we get a bad tanker I will also remember and won't recruit them next time.

On rare occasions I'll keep a really, REALLY bad player around if the team can handle the dead weight and if the bad player is entertaining enough. I remember one character, a level 50 "tank" who had taken a grand total of 2 powers from his primary... naturally his aura and mez were NOT among those. Yet he still insisted on Leeeroy!! at every group and couldn't figure out why he kept dying. Of course he was always one group ahead of the rest of us so we couldn't keep him alive, nor, after the 3rd death were we inclined to do so. Naturally the rest of the team couldn't possibly know anything about his powersets so they could be safely ignored when they tried to offer advise. After all, we were playing Controllers so what could we know about tankers?

Well, we just let him get faceplanted, then we would move up to the group he died in, someone would toss a mutation his way and we'd continue on. We were facing Council Empire in one of the portal missions. I lost track of his faceplants after 20; for the record the rest of us (6 'trollers) didn't have a single close call. His constant excuses for his frailty (I think the longest he lasted against +1 Council was less than 10 seconds) really got to be funny.

"You're too squishy, I need to go in first!"
"I'm the best tanker in the game!"
"What happened?"
"Rez me, if I'm not there you'll die!"

He was, of course, complete dead weight, but he was entertaining. Oh, he was Inv/Stone, just like CMA. Of course I couldn't possibly have anything to tell him about his build. He had, as I recall:
RPD
Res Elements
4 travel powers
Most of the /Stone Melee attacks... except Fault of course.

There may have been something else in there somewhere but that captures the essence of his so-called build. He was level 50 and his name was Beastly something or other on Pinnacle. I've run across him a couple of times since, and his build hasn't improved any.

[ QUOTE ]
I have a problem with this build here... im invul/nrgy and with all the changes i can't seem to fit in Energy transfer can i get help with that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at the powers you want, prioritize which ones are most important and then drop those that are less important. Any soft capped Invuln is a tight build that requires sacrifice; my Inv/Stone had to sacrifice several things I really wanted in order to fit in the things I really wanted more.

The final build had to drop Stone Mallet and Fireball in order to fit everything else I needed in, and yes I miss having those two powers. Way back in issue 4 I used to have Hasten as well and I haven't had room for that since issue 5. There are probably 5 more powers I really wish I had room for, but they are less important than the ones I chose.

A quick look at the powers and I'd do something like this:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 48 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Barrage -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Taunt -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Whirling Hands -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Resist Physical Damage -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Tough -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Weave -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Energy Transfer -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Total Focus -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Resist Energies -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Resist Elements -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]
That's how I would prioritize your power selections.

For slotting, slot Reactive Armor (4 pieces, level 25-35) into your armors, slot Kinetic Combat (4 pieces, level 25-35) and two Pounding Slugfest into your single target attacks, slot a full Mocking Beratement into Taunt and you're in good shape defensively and offensively. I generally toss the Doctored Wounds set into Dull Pain and Thunderstrike into Laser Beam Eyes.

[ QUOTE ]
ok explain to me why people expect sb to be spammed, but dont spam taunt. I would rather have one tanker spamming taunt than 5 kins spamming sb on me. Awesome you said you dont use taunt every group, but wouldnt that make you a better tank if you did. I mean its a usefull power.... thats all im trying to figure out. If spamming a power on one AT that makes the group more effective as a whole, then wouldnt spamming another power that enables the group to focus on damage instead of healing or buffs make it just as effective? Hey if you spam taunt mabye the kin will have time to spam speed boost...

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you wouldn't rather one tanker spamming Taunt... you want one tanker holding all the aggro the team is generating. Those are two entirely different things.

As a tanker my primary purpose is to hold aggro. Spamming Taunt on mobs I ALREADY have a solid aggro lock on is pointless. If something I DON'T have a lock on suddenly aggros then sure I'm going to grab that aggro using whatever tools are appropriate.

Same thing with a Kin, SB is an incredible +recharge buff for the team and helps immensely in the team's efficiency. Spamming SB every few seconds on the same teammate is pointless though; the buff lasts for 2 minutes and all you're doing is refreshing the buff, not increasing it by spamming it too often.

A tanker who has all the aggro under control and locked onto him cannot improve the team's efficiency by spamming Taunt on mobs he already has under control. He can increase the efficiency by contributing to the damage at that point.

A Kinetic who already has SB up on the team likewise can't improve the efficiency by spamming SB... so he does other things until the last 20 seconds or so of the buff's duration, then he refreshes SB on the team.

[ QUOTE ]
and why wouldn't you spam taunt constantly as a tanker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if you've already locked all the aggro down tight it won't actually accomplish anything. Unless you're playing Willpower and have a weak taunt aura then anything in melee of you is going to stay locked on you unless you completely stop attacking. (AV's excepted here; Taunt is needed to guarantee you keep their aggro, but once every 20 some seconds is plenty.)

Let's look at it this way... spamming Taunt on mobs you already have locked solidly down in your aura is like constantly spamming SB on the same person every 5 seconds... it's a waste in other words. Hitting Taunt on a mob over there that just aggro'd on a blaster? Heck yeah, that's what the power's for. Same with SB, ideally you'll be refreshing it sometime in the last 10 seconds of it's duration. Refreshing it after only a few seconds is a waste of time.

[ QUOTE ]

I think your missing my point. We both agree that its a tanks job to hold aggro and taunt, and that its a kins job to boost and provide support. What im saying is just because the kin isnt spamming sb doesnt mean there not a good kin. You said yourself you dont taunt every group, but its a handy tool. SB holds a place in the tray of allmost every kin. Why? Because its a valuable tool when needed. Its up to the individual player to decide when that tool is neeed, and how to best put it to use. Just like taunt is a valuable tool....when needed


[/ QUOTE ]

What I was getting at was that a tanker is there to maximize the team's effectiveness by holding aggro and dealing damage thereby freeing the rest of the team from having to worry about aggro. The Kin maximizes the team's effectiveness by several means as well, and the recharge buff from SB is one of the set's most powerful means of doing that. The whole point being that giving an entire team significantly more recharge means that attacks recharge faster allowing for more damage/buff/debuff output.

We're comparing apples to oranges here with Fulcrum vs SB, both are buffs and team efficiency boosts but they accomplish it in different ways. And there's nothing stopping you from having and using both powers... you're playing below your peak if you do.

SB recharges in 2 seconds and takes 1 second to cast... you'll spend roughly 21 seconds every 2 minutes keeping SB on 7 teammates. That leaves over a minute and a half free to do other things like blast, control, pop Fulcrum, hit Transference/Transfusion or whatever else you need to do. It almost never is an either/or situation with using SB or some other power; you should have plenty of time to do BOTH and that 50% recharge bonus makes a very noticeable difference. There's no time in combat when a team won't benefit from that recharge buff.

Early game SB makes the difference between your scrappers and blasters having a complete attack chain and having gaps while waiting for powers to recharge. Later on it allows them to use their heavy hitter attacks more often and avoid having to use lower damage "filler" attacks thus increasing their DPS... this is regardless of what other recharge boosts they may have. It's like the old Scrapper saying on recharge, until your attack chain is Headsplitter, Headsplitter, Headsplitter then you need more recharge .

Is having SB drop in the middle of combat for a few seconds a disaster? Of course not; but the more consistently you can maintain the buff the better your teams overall kill speed will be. You want your team using their most powerful abilities as often as they can; you have the ability to give them almost 2 more SO's of recharge for every power, unaffected by ED. Why wouldn't you want that?

Ah yes, I well remember when I first started playing and ran into much the same issues you're having now. Fulmens gave you some good pointers already about teaming and letting someone else open the fight. I had much the same problem with my first Blaster 4 years ago, I played him just the same in the teens and 20's as I did when he was level 5 and kept getting pounded into the ground in 3 seconds flat.

It took me nearly 3 years before I attempted another Blaster I'd hated the character so much... and you know what? I'd learned a lot in the meantime and I DIDN'T play like a solo level 5 blaster anymore. My first rule solo was don't attack anything I couldn't kill quickly and restrict the AOE to avoid over-aggro, and for sure on a team don't use an AOE before the tank/scrapper/controller has the mobs under control. Over-aggro will kill you faster than most anything else.

Now for powersets... my only 50 blaster is Archery/Energy and it's been a monster from around level 10; at 50 it's perfectly capable of dropping an entire 8 man spawn in 5 seconds at 90' range. The single target damage is really good and quick recharging... it's end friendly as well; even at 50 I've never needed Stamina. I've really enjoyed the combination but from what you're saying I'm not sure it really fits what you want.

You say you want to stay ranged... in that case /energy is the set to take for Boost Range, we just need to figure out a primary for you. Fire offers massive damage and very good AOE potential... not quite up with Archery's AOE but very respectable. Soloing you'll probably mostly depend on the single target attacks, you'll have some tasty AOE for teams as well. This is my second favorite primary after Archery... I've been working on a Fire/Energy lately and just got to 28. If your concept can take shooting fire and throwing fireballs then this may be the one for you.

You're pretty well ruling out Energy/* due to the knockback and that's probably a wise choice at this point in your experience... later on after you learn how to use KB effectively it can be very useful. Unfortunately KB can very easily be used IN-effectively, particularly by an inexperienced player.

Ice is a fantastic single target damage set with limited AOE. My only experience with it is from a mid-20's level Defender but it was quite effective against one hard target. Large groups however it struggled with due to the lack of AOE. You get a pair of Holds with the set however, so you'll be almost a "controller lite".

Sonic, at least the Defender version (I have a mid-30's Rad/Sonic Defender), is great damage; and subsequent attacks do even more damage due to the -res debuff in the set. The graphics and SFX leave a bit to be desired though; you'll be yelling at the enemies instead of blasting them which may not fit what you're looking for.

Electric wouldn't be one of my top pics, the damage is lacking and the end drain secondary effect is basically worthless... unless you can drain a mob dry and keep him there he'll still attack you. Again, my experience with the set is as a Defender, this time a Kinetic/Electric. I built him as a "sapper" to drain mobs of end... unfortunately the concept didn't pan out like I'd hoped. The attacks do look and sound very cool... I just wish the damage was better. It gives you a hold though, so that's a point in it's favor. If I wanted a hold though I'd go with Ice; it does more damage and gives you TWO holds.

Well, I'm out of Blaster primaries that I've any personal experience with, either as a Blaster or as a Defender secondary. Hopefully others can give you thoughts on the rest of the primaries... in the meantime I hope I've given you some food for thought.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You just can't play at the level that other people better than you at playing anything kinetics do, evidenced by the fact that some people can keep sb up and do eveything else you do on a team.

I don't think any further justification is necessary, you just aren't that good.

[/ QUOTE ]

So from what I can tell your saying that your a crappy kin. if you cant, or dont keep sb up on everyone at all times.....isnt that kind of like saying your a crappy tank if you dont keep everything taunted at all times...i mean its the tanks job to taunt right....so he should be able to taunt everything all the time, and he should do it because its his job? Some kins dont like keeping everybody speed boosted....some tanks dont taunt all the time (i know i dont)...doesnt make them any better, or any worse than other players. They are just choosing to play that particular toon a little differently than others

[/ QUOTE ]

In my opinion yes, a tank who doesn't hold aggro is a waste of space. That's always been my philosophy ever since I rolled up my first tanker way back in issue 3... if there's any stray aggro then I'm doing my damnedest to get it under control. That's what I'm there for. There are, of course, a lot of ways to accomplish that goal and Taunt is simply one of several tools I have to do that. No, I don't need Taunt every mob, but it comes in handy more than often enough to justify it's place in my tray.

I've always felt that anytime a teammate faceplants while I'm tanking that I should have been able to prevent it absent gross stupidity on the teammate's part. If I'm doing my job correctly then the rest of the team should be able to pour on the pain with impunity. If aggro gets loose then I've screwed up somewhere. If that loose aggro kills a teammate then nobody is to blame but me... it's my fault I lost control of that mob. That's not to say I can't contribute damage as well; damage is after all my secondary reason for being on the team... and it adds to my ability to hold aggro as well.

I admit I have very high standards for any tanker's performance... those are the same standards I hold myself to. I'm a perfectionist in that regard, and no, I don't always manage that perfection but I'm ALWAYS trying for it. I haven't teamed with very many tankers I respect but the ones I do have earned it.

So yes, I do think it's part of the Kin's job to keep SB up just like it's part of the tank's job to hold aggro. And you know what? I've always found that keeping SB up and handling all the other functions that a Kinetic/whatever may have is much, MUCH easier than being a good tanker. Somehow my 50 Mind/Kin 'troller manages to lay down controls, deal out damage, hold troublesome mobs, confuse other mobs, pop Fulcrum Shift, refill the Blaster's end after a nuke with Transference, hit Transfusion as needed, kill mobs and still keep SB up on the entire team. Come on, it isn't that tough and it has a dramatic effect on the team's performance.

[ QUOTE ]
Okay there is a build out there that makes a invul tank as strong as a stoner if you have the build pls email me under @tempstra

[/ QUOTE ]

Check my guide in my sig... it's not quite a well-slotted Granite but it isn't much below. I haven't found anything it can't tank as well as my Granite tankers.

[ QUOTE ]
While I'm not a veteran of 5 years, I've been in the game for about a year or so, but rather than having gotten lots of toons to 50, I've got so many toons spread out over the various servers and many been deleted and remade. But most of that time has been spent playing defenders, with some time spent on blaster, controller, a bit on scrapper and the least on tanker. It is only recently I've really taken up the role of the tanker. However before this I had no idea invulnerability was such a... well, I guess I'd use the word weak, though it might not be really fitting, set.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weak? Invuln?
Not since issue 13 it isn't... it's second only to Stone in terms of raw survivability if built right and completely blows Stone away in mobility and damage.

[ QUOTE ]
I've always gotten the impression that Stone was the one with most survivability, which made sense, since they had superior defense. Secondly came Invulnerability, which lacked defense, but instead had very high resistances (yes, getting not hit is better than just resisting, which was why I figured stone to be overall best, but invulnerability not far behind). Willpower was a strange mixed set, which was meant to be decent against everything, but not superior in anything. Ice was a defense set, less defensive than stone, but not having the drawbacks. And dark and fire were both less protective, more damaging, due to their auras.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lacking defense? Invuln?
At base, Invuln has 11% def to all but Psi... that's completely unslotted. It has 17% def slotted up with one mob in melee range. Add Weave and you have 25% defense to all but Psi... leaving just 20% more to find to reach the soft cap.

I think you're looking at Invuln wrong, it is not a resistance tanker, although it can easily cap it's S/L resistance. It's not a defense tanker, although it's capable of soft capping it's defense. It's not a regen tanker, although Dull Pain is a HUGE heal and HP boost.

What Invuln is all about is layered defenses... Defense to keep mobs from hitting you in the first place, Resistance so that when they DO hit they don't do as much damage and Regen/Dull Pain to recover from damage that gets past the first two layers.

I'm a firm proponent of getting as much defense as you can (up to the 45% soft cap anyway) as that will mitigate more damage than anything else. Second, you want to cap your S/L resistance at 90%; something that's trivial for an Invuln. Remember, the vast majority of damage will be Smash/Lethal. Of the remainder the majority is Energy so you'll want high defense to that. Fire is rare, and Cold is extremely rare, more so even than Psi.

I'm also a firm believer in using your secondary; not only does it contribute damage but it greatly increases your ability to hold and control aggro. A tank without a means of attacking is at a huge disadvantage. Just because you do less damage than a Scrapper doesn't mean you should ignore it altogether.

[ QUOTE ]
So, basicly we agree it isnt a need but a want. Thats cool, I love getting SB myself, but I have never asked for one outside of an AV/GM fight because its not important enough to me.

I enjoy 7 out of 9 of the kinetic powers (hate the bounce bubble and SB is alright) so by some of the reasoning posted because I dont enjoy playing buffbot with SB I should skip Kinetics altogether? That seems silly.

I have played a Kin/ to 50 another Kin/ to 36 and another /Kin to 45 and not once has anyone complained about the work I have done as a Kineticist, ever.

But obviously all the people I have played with in the last 3 years werent as skilled as the "Must have SB on all team members at all times or I'll kick you." people.....or the people complaining are such a small fraction of the playerbase that this is just a silly debate to get into as the remaining "I dont really care how you play your toon." people are the vast vast majority on the matter and I can just not care what the vocal minority has to say.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me repeat myself from my previous post:

[ QUOTE ]
SB does more for the team as a whole than anything else you can do short of possibly Fulcrum Shift.

[/ QUOTE ]

While all characters should be self sufficient, having buffs available allows the team to step up to another level of effectiveness. Of the buffs a Kin has available, only Fulcrum Shift is arguably more powerful than Speed Boost.

But I can see that there's no convincing you of that fact so I'll leave you to play at less than your best. Personally my feeling is that a Kin who can't be bothered to keep SB up most of the time is playing well below his potential and should probably be playing a different powerset. I probably won't kick him from the team but I'll avoid teaming with him in the future.

I feel the same no matter what character I'm playing... if I'm playing a second Kin on the team then I'd appreciate the buff as well, and double stacking on the rest of the team does awesome things for the team's DPS.

[ QUOTE ]
And as soon as you can show (from my post points that you ignored) why sb is NEEDED and not just wanted to maximize xp/drop/inf rates and why you believe powergamers are some sort of be all end all of playstyles everyone should adhere to I will be happy to take on your points. "


[/ QUOTE ]

Needed? No, usually it isn't NEEDED. However, it is ALWAYS a large force multiplier. It's the same as Fulcrum, it isn't needed in order for the team to function, but it greatly benefits the team to have it. And it's not like you can't do everything else a Kin needs to do on the team and still find the time to keep SB up on everyone... that's just what a good Kin does. SB does more for the team as a whole than anything else you can do short of possibly Fulcrum Shift.

I've been on both sides of the debate; I have 3 Kinetics characters myself. A 50 Mind/Kin 'troller, a 35 Kin/Rad defender and a mid-20's Kin/Electric defender. I haven't ever had any difficulty maintaining SB while also dealing with everything else the characters may need to do. Saying you're too busy to bother with SB is just taking the lazy way out.

It's kind of like an Emp not using Fortitude on anyone because they can't be bothered to keep the buff up. When you invite an Emp to a team you expect then to hand out buffs like Fort... and a good one will do just that. Same thing with a Kin, you can tell a good one by how they keep the team SB'd in addition to taking care of everything else.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you've only seen people teleport into mobs with it you've been playing with poor players. Using it while surround is much better since then you get the damage buff from AAO. You have to teleport, but you can teleport to where you're standing. It has a long recharge, 90 seconds, which is why you don't see it more than once a spawn.

[/ QUOTE ]

The knockdown effect is very useful for avoiding the alpha, and frankly, if you hit build up first, you're killing the target cap anyway.
So I wouldn't call them poor players, it's just a different strategy.
(I use it this way, sometimes I need to follow-up with whirling sword, most times I don't,)
But yeah, it's an awesome power and should be used as often as it's available.

but returning to the OPs question, There isn't enough +Rech on the DM/Shield (it's also just short of the def cap, Phalanx fighting in mid's, blah-blah)

From a survivability standpoint, I'm guessing the Claws/Inv will have the SD beat by against groups such as Cimerorans (And who at the upper levels doesn't spend a lot of time on ITFs)
Or anything that is mainly Smash/Lethal (and many AVs are too)
Both sets suffer from the "Psi" hole though

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, how are you killing the target cap with buildup + shield charge? My 45 BS/Shield scrapper is an awesome killing machine sure, but I can't kill a group with only Shield Charge... it ALMOST kills minions with BU + saturated AAO but not quite. I need Whirling Sword to finish the job. All my attacks are slotted to ED cap damage as well.

I am really loving the character, it's replaced my Spine/Regen as my favorite scrapper Solo without Weave he's running 43% def to ranged/AOE and about 46% melee (figuring one parry in there).

Not to derail things, but in looking over numbers I'm coming to the conclusion that Tactics is actually a better choice than Focused Accuracy since FA got the nerfbat. Am I all wet there?

It's your tanker, so what you do with it is up to you. I've given you some suggestions earlier in the thread on how to have an effective offense and a more effective defense than you have with your current build. A good build will have MORE survivability than you have now without sacrificing your entire offense to get it.

A Granite tank is durable, but it comes with a lot of downsides in limited mobility, a sizeable recharge penalty and a 30% damage penalty. Prior to level 32 a Stone Armor will be a lot squishier than your Invuln so be aware of that as well.

I happen to like Stone tanks, of my 3 level 50 tankers two of them are Stone. Frankly, my tanker of choice for anything in the game is the Invuln... it's nearly as tough (more than tough enough for anything in the game) and it has none of the drawbacks of Stone. A Granite is a little more of an "easy mode" for survivability but it's considerably more challenging to hold aggro with due to the mobility issues.

[ QUOTE ]
Healing is highly overrated by half the game and highly overrated by the other. The thing is that unless the ones taking the damage has self-heals or extreme regeneration, healing will help you more than anything. But if they do have that, healing is mostly useless and buffs would help you more than anything. There's two parts of survivability, mitigation (defense, resistance, crowd control) and recovery (healing and regeneration). The more you have of one, the better the other gets.

A team with a good willpower/fire/dark tanker and a FF will never miss a healer, I promise you that. The same cannot be said if the Tanker is SD/Ice/Invuln, who wouldn't even be helped by the FF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually when I'm playing my Inv/Stone tanker I really could care less about heals for myself; if I start getting more damage than my def and res can handle, which doesn't happen very often even on a STF, then Dull Pain is available. Lord Recluse buffed by his towers is the only thing I've run across where that wasn't enough; and for that situation I simply fall back on my Insp. tray. The last two STF's I've tanked have had no ranged heals available... which is perfectly ok, I've things under control out of my own resources.

When I'm tanking with my Invuln what I look for in a team is:
First, debuffs. Gobs and gobs of debuffs! We can never have too much.
Second, damage, preferably AOE damage and lots of it.
Third, buffs like AM, SB, FF/Sonic and the like
Heals as such don't really enter into the picture although by getting the debuffs and buffs we'll probably have some form of it available. If I'm doing my job then the team shouldn't need heals unless someone does something stupid.

[ QUOTE ]
Last question about survivabiltiy. Who survives longer and does the best job at lead tanking against 52-54 Bosses in AE and Original Content?

[/ QUOTE ]

Granite armor followed closely by a soft-capped Invuln, same as most of the other answers you've gotten. Against 99% of the stuff out there a soft-cap Invuln is about equal to a Granite... you have to get to some really extreme cases where Granite's greater survivability will matter. By extreme I mean something tougher than the STF extreme.