Call Me Awesome
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Posts
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Quote:I've tanked most everything in the game with a Stone and an Invuln; now that it's relatively easy to soft cap an Invuln the gap between the two has narrowed quite a bit... to the detriment of my playtime with the Stone/Fire. If he wasn't on another server from my Inv I doubt I'd play him much at all, he just doesn't bring much to the table that the Inv can't do as well.Originally Posted by Desitre
Ahh yeah. I was just curious about like what the average a wp/ss could take because I'm currently working on a Wp/ss brute.(EDIT: I know brutes are different from tanks just like to get a feel) he's 33 and I'm loving him. What I usually do to test how much my tanker can take, I go into ae and create custom but similar to what you would see in game and I'll see how many I can take when thier powers are on normal, then how many I can take on Extreme.
Most the time though I see what my greatest weakness is and then I'll create a few AVs that address exactly what my weakness is and see how many of those I can take(not many though lol)
Although you gave a pretty dang good answer, is the tank your talking about your stone?
The 4 patron AV's in the STF example was with my Stone/Fire tank, Granite Flame; and as long as I had the mez protection to handle GW's godawful hold I was in no real danger. At that time I believe that tanker was running a HO/SO build with minimal if any IO sets; this was early in the IO era... maybe issue 9, certainly no later than issue 10.
I've done the same once or twice with my Invuln/Stone tank, Call Me Awesome but I'll admit there were some buffs floating around
. This was back in issue 9, so I was a long way from the def soft cap but that team had 2 sonic defenders and a FF controller so my durability, or lack thereof, wasn't an issue.
There haven't been a lot of other situations I can recall where I've had to tank more than one AV, I've generally avoided AE and most missions will only have one, at most two widely separated AV's. -
Quote:It depends entirely on the tanker and the AV's in question. AV's like Chimera are easy, and you can handle multiple of that type for quite a while. AV's like, oh say Ghost Widow and you'll probably need outside buffs to handle only one.Originally Posted by Desitre
So I'm just curious, have you tried to see how many AV's you can take on at once, not necessarily kill them but take the damage and not die?
Different tankers have different levels of survivability; and different AV's are strong vs different things. There's really no way to meaningfully answer your question.
Raw numbers, the most I've ever had at once was all four of the STF patron AV's on my Granite tanker... with the stacked Increase Density to beat GW's hold I wasn't having any problems. If I hadn't had the MAG 100+ hold protection from 7 ID's on me then I'd have been dead the instant GW hit me with her hold.
I've tanked Reichsman and one of his "support" AV's with my Invuln... that wasn't any issue. Of course other than his obscene hit points Reichsman is a wimp. -
Overall it looks like a decent SO build; I'd use a recharge rather than a range in Taunt's base slot... more often is usually more valuable than longer range.
I'd suggest Boxing rather than Kick as your Fighting prereq, Kick has a chance to knockback a target. I tried it on test while I was working out a new build in the aftermath of the issue 5/6 nerfs. I found it fairly annoying when it would KB something.
Personally I'm not a big fan of the Earth Mastery epic; and remember that Stone Prison is only a single target immobilize. Since you've only one slot open you may want to go with either Ice or Fire so you can get a hold... holds are more useful than immobilizes. Pick whichever you prefer; the graphic is more obvious with Ice but both are equally effective. Char animates slightly faster though. Holds are useful for taking that problem mob out of action... Malta Sappers are an excellent choice for a quick hold.
Oh, you've an extra slot in Resist Energies; thanks to ED only the first 3 SO's are worth anything.
If you want to think about IOs there's some pretty cheap ways you can go. Smashing Haymaker for your attacks is cheap and gives you some nice S/L defense; you can finish out with two Pounding Slugfest for a regeneration bonus... the PS are dirt cheap.
Mocking Beratement in Taunt is another dirt cheap way to get some nice bonuses; I wouldn't be surprised if you could buy & craft the full set for a half million.
Moving up a bit in price there's the Reactive Armor set, you'll eventually want to 4 slot it into your armors. It'll be a bit more than the Smashing Haymaker though, so if money's tight slot the attacks first.
The Steadfast Protection unique (resist/+3% defense) is extremely useful as it gives you 3% defense to everything... it'll be a bit expensive though so you may do better buying it with Merits; it's only 75 merits. That's about what you'd earn in a couple of the signature task forces; Positron is worth 50 some by itself. -
Quote:It could be done with an Invuln; you'd need to have considerable recovery IO bonuses though. The problem is having the recovery for non-stop attacking over the 20+ minutes it'll take, actually surviving is trivial. My BS/Regen scrapper has solo'd a few AV's and even with that character my biggest problem was endurance.Originally Posted by Maverick_Babylon
Nice accomplishment I like tanks and am back after not playing for a while I might give this build a shot. i have never played a WP tanker.... would it work with Invulnerability? I have always wanted an invulnerability/SS tanker.
P.S. I like your GUI layout I may have to copycat you
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Quote:Indeed. There's always the super-hard core option of liquid nitrogen... that'll add considerable horsepower to the rig. Wasn't there a write up on that on Tom's Hardware a couple of years ago? The joys of running with your processor at -200 degreesOriginally Posted by BlackberryThorn
<---Decidedly not hard core. Consider water cooling all the time, not willing to risk an entire machine to my startling ability to roll critical failures on my skill checks >_>
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Quote:I've used that sink on several builds; it does do a nice job although it's a bit of a PITA to mount. Of course, I'm told that the hardcore people use water cooling....Originally Posted by Maverick_Babylon
Nice lookin machine! That heat sink is HUGE! lol It looks like an air conditioner or a jet turbine
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Quote:How long did it take? I'm guessing probably close to 20-30 minutes? In any case it's a nice accomplishment. From what I've seen most tankers are just barely above the sustained DPS to overcome an AV's regen; the challenge becomes keeping enough recovery to sustain the damage output.Originally Posted by Vitality
I just used Haymaker-Jab-Punch-Jab-repeat...I used Knockout Blow whenever it recharged.
I was just using my regualar overall Tank build.
I'm in the process of planning out a pure DPS build that will make this process easier and faster. -
Is this an existing character, or one you're just now creating? In either case there are several places where you can significantly improve. Off the top of my head, from the top:
RPD is useful sure, but you should absolutely take TI first; sometime in the mid-20's is fine for picking up RPD.
TI does NOT need recharge! It's a toggle you'll activate when you log in and then leave on permanently.
Dull Pain, slotted with SO's needs 3 recharge/3 heal.
Combat Jumping doesn't offer enough def to justify added slots, and it uses such a tiny amount of end (0.07 eps) that slotting endred is pointless. Stick with the base slot unless you're using it as an IO mule.
Resist Elements is, by far, the least useful power in the entire primary... I recommend skipping it completely or, at the very least, delaying it until MUCH later.
The same comments I made for TI also apply to Unyielding... and it should be taken at level 8.
Resist Energies, while it has some use is another power that should be delayed. I generally plan to get it at 49.
Invincibility once again is a toggle that you'll activate and forget... you do not need recharge. I also strongly recommend getting it at 18.
You're REALLY going to be hurting with Stamina at 35! I cannot stress this enough, plan your build to have Stamina at 20... 22 at the VERY latest. Also, Hurdle is far more useful than Swift; particularly in a jumper. It stacks for jump speed and distance.
I find Build Up to be entirely skippable in any tanker; there's too many other powers that are more useful.
Unstoppable will hard cap your resists all by itself if you keep your toggles up; there's no point slotting it for resist. 3 recharge at the most is all you will ever need.
I'm not familiar enough with Axe to offer specific power suggestions, but I will say your slotting is, frankly, quite poor. And trust me on this, you do NOT want to EVER slot knockback in a tanker. You really don't want to do that. Basic SO slotting for attacks is 1 accuracy/3 damage and finish off with endred and recharge.
I suggest you read my guide to the first 20 levels of Invuln, it will give you a much better base from which to create your character. You may want to think about an IO build; for not too much inf you can create a tanker who can rival Granite in survivability. I've put together a guide for doing that, also linked in my sig. -
I played a Shield/Elec in the closed beta and it really was a nice combination. Even on straight SO's at level 50 it was able to easily solo 8 man/+2 missions and it could survive 8 man/+4 solo... it just takes forever for a tank to kill +4 mobs.
Be prepared for growing pains; you'll feel fairly squishy until your defenses climb above 30%. Once you get past 40% it gets really good and reaching the soft cap is almost too easy.
My impressions of Electric Melee were that it's very good AOE but a bit light on single target... bosses were sometimes a problem because of this. Minions & LT's die very quickly to the AOE leaving you with a bit less ST damage than you'd prefer to deal with the bosses. I thought it was maybe a touch stronger AOE than Fire Melee but considerably weaker in single target. As we all know there are always tradeoffs.
In any case, you won't go wrong with a Shield/Electric. It will do the job, and do it quite well. -
Quote:So you're having problems with only one costume? That's really weird. Do you have custom colors on your other account? If it's the costume that's causing the problems that sounds like a job for Sup... er, BAB's.Originally Posted by Wird_
Ok tested the fire/kin on my other account and it's ok.
Then went to my troller on my main account and 1st costume option is unchanged with this net graph
This one is a custom color one
On my other account the grass is cut pretty low and it's ok.
But on my main when I get in fire with my fire going... LAGGGG
Ticket time here I come!
TY for the help. -
Quote:True, I wonder if you wouldn't be better off just rushing her... the problem I've had with range tanking her is that the melee characters have problems keeping in range of her... they attack, then run forward, attack, then run forward. Actually keeping at range of her isn't the issue; if I can do it with a Granite + Rooted tank there's no excuse for anyone to have problems.Originally Posted by Kahlan_
A decent player can just kite her regardless of if she's immobilized. I don't know whether confront has the -range or not.
Long as everyone's at 45% you won't need to worry about the heal... that may be better than forcing melee to chase her. Oh, somewhere in the last few issues GW's immob protection got buffed; last time we ran it 3 controllers were unable to immobilize her through the PToD. -
Quote:I haven't noticed any issues with Headsplitter recently on my BS/Shield; it seems to hit runners with no problems.Originally Posted by Roderick
Correct. Melee cones were having problems hitting targets when the target or user were moving. That was fixed.
Then, all of a sudden, people were hitting entire rows 20+ feet long of enemies with Shadow Maul, Head Splitter, and other 7' cones. The fix to that seems to have caused the bug with moving targets to resurface.
Now, this is all PvE, like the vast majority of the playerbase I have no interest at all in PvP... mostly because of the player attitudes you run into there. -
Quote:Originally Posted by New Dawn
Suggestion: Work on this one.Well, I wish you folks good luck with it, although from a theoretical standpoint I'm not coming up with a feasible method for an all-scrapper team other than maximizing defense and rolling the dice.Quote:Originally Posted by kokuryu_EU
I'd like to add, that in anyone with an interest to do the all scrapper MoSTF would be NDs competition, she'd like to bag it on the euro servers first. So she is for all intensive purposes as helpful as can be.
Hmm, it does occur to me that Unstoppable and One with the Shield are click powers... they might offer enough resistance to survive the hold. The Ethereal Shift temp power would be another possibility, but it's completely dependent on timing.
I don't have a dog in the fight for server superiority unless you try the MoSTF on Guardian where my BS/Shield lives so I'll just wish all of you good luck! I'm sure it's doable with several strategies; I haven't tried an all (insert AT) MoSTF run yet. The 5 times I've gotten the badge were with more conventional teams. -
Quote:What other options would you suggest for a group of scrappers? A group of controllers has more options of course; as does a group of Defenders. The bottom line is that you need to either be able to survive GW's hold or you need a method to prevent the hold from landing.Originally Posted by New Dawn
Don't be someone who has only ever seen or told of two options, be someone who can think of more options. There are always more options.
For option one, surviving the hold, you'll need one of the following:
- Enough hold protection to withstand a MAG 100 hold
- A source of outside healing to outpace the DOT of the hold.
- Considerable passive negative resistance via auto powers or inspirations. That requires more resistance than an Invuln tanker possesses with all the passives.
- Enough defense (45%) to negative energy or range to reduce the chance of the hold landing to a manageable chance.
- Some method for preventing GW from using the hold... typically this means several controllers to hold her through her PToD which isn't an option with a group of scrappers.
Seriously, if you have another suggestion I'd be glad to hear it; I've listed everything I've thought of. -
Quote:No, they won't survive GW's hold... an Invuln TANK will not survive the hold unless there's an Emp who's on the ball to nail you with several heals while you're floating in the air. I don't know what the exact damage from the hold is offhand, but it's DOT so the one shot code doesn't apply and it will kill a tank with 3,212 HP. It'll even kill that tank after a single heal other from an emp.Originally Posted by kokuryu_EU
Dullpain and Passives shouldn't be enough to survive the hold.
I've only seen two options for handling her, either soft cap defense and gamble that the hold won't hit... usually a pretty good gamble... or stack enough mez protection buffs to be immune to the MAG 100 hold.
The earlier idea about 8 Shield scrappers is interesting... you could just zerg the entire STF with impunity. You wouldn't even need a taunter for LR, just ignore him while you kill the towers since everyone should be way over the soft cap for him. My SG rolled up a group of 4 shield scrappers as a static team... once we hit 28 and had Grant Cover we were all soft capped; at 50 we're pushing 110% defense to all positions with just 4 of us. Maybe use a few oranges until the red tower drops... One with the Shield would be beneficial here as well. -
Quote:Not only is it a ranged AOE, but it's a MAG 100 hold; to beat it you need 8+ clear mind buffs... I'm not sure what the MAG protection of Stimulant is, but you need to stack enough protection to beat MAG 100.Originally Posted by Kahlan_
It's a ranged aoe hold with 80 ft range. So as long as the tank scrapper does a good job kiting the rest of the team will be fine. 1 guy can stack enough stimulant, might need to slot a recharge or 2 in it though as I believe the recharge is 10 seconds base.
The last few times I've tanked GW I've relied on soft capped defense instead; it's easier to come by. Of course you are gambling that GW won't score that one in ten hit with her hold.
One thing I'd be concerned about with GW is actually holding aggro from a bunch of scrappers in melee... anyone with a taunt aura is very likely to steal aggro. My last STF run we simply had everyone buff up to 45% defense and we all took her in melee... that didn't sound right for some reason. Anyway, with everyone at the def soft cap her heal was a non-issue which eliminated the need to range tank.
Hmm, have I derailed the thread enough yet? No? Well, you see there once was this fellow.........
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Quote:It was answered early on, you need to do the Tina MacIntyre arc (40-45) and the Maria Jenkins arc (45-50). Specifically you need to kill the following AV's: Anti-Matter, Battle Maiden, Black Swan, Bobcat, Chimera, Diabolique, Dominiatrix, Infernal, Malaise, Marauder, Nueron, Nightstar, SiegeOriginally Posted by orangemonkey
Thanks for the "help"
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Quote:I've always used stuck myself anytime I wasn't reporting an actual gameplay bug... it still takes awhile to get a response; Sunday evening it took 35 minutes... on a TF.Originally Posted by Master-Blade
"Stuck" is what I've always used if I was in need of immediate assistance in-game. I think that people use General too much and then complain that they aren't getting results, then log off before help arrives, which is just a waste of time for everybody involved.
To me, not being able to enter or finish your mission certainly qualifies as being "stuck". lol
Thinking it over in the last 5 years I've only had to petition one person for behavior; that was while I was running a lowbie on Freedom and some tool decided to follow me around pulling +5 mobs into my level 6-7 baby defender. He'd pull mobs until he made sure I was dead, then fly to the hospital to follow me again all the while bombarding broadcast with his immense uberness. Coincidence? Or a valid reason to avoid Freedom?
He was the only flagrant griefer I encountered on Freedom but I did encounter lots of rude and childish players. That's a large part of why I play on Guardian & Pinnacle; the playerbase there is more mature.
Admittedly a person's behavior has to be extremely bad before I'd report them; it requires more than simple annoying tells as /ignore works fine for that and I have a fairly thick skin.
Ah, I just remembered a couple of idiots from the old Hami raids who got petitioned for pulling GM's into the hold group; I'd forgotten about them. As I recall they got petitioned by 100+ players for those stunts. -
Quote:That must be why I haven't noticed it on my Invuln; ever since issue 16 hit I've been using the no FX option on the costume I actually use. No sounds or graphics at all on the toggles, even when you activate them. Just the activation animations and that's all.Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
Just now and yes, it completely eliminates the annoying sound loop! At least we have a workaround now.
Good call Bill.
PS: signature line pic... eeesh
I've only bothered changing one of my 5 costume slots; it just hadn't seemed worthwhile. Hey, I noticed last night that CMA has 105 free costume tokens
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I've never noticed any continuing sound, but if it bothers you simply go to the tailor and change the FX to "minimal FX"... it completely turns off all sound and visuals from the Invuln toggles.
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Last night on a Manticore TF we ran into that very same bug... the mission door was located right in front of the AE building. We had to stand around and wait 35 minutes for a GM to fix the problem. Obviously it was pointed at a door in the building that AE replaced.
I'm no programmer, but it would seem to be an easy thing to run a script that would eliminate reference to an invalid door from all missions. Even allowing for the bugged door it's still inexcusable for it to take 35 minutes to get the issue addressed so we could continue the TF. We actually had to send a second petition at the 30 minute mark and strangely we had a GM within 5 minutes. If I'd known that I'd have sent the second one much sooner. -
Amazing, the very first DXP weekend in history that I'm actually home for and may have some time to play.
I haven't set any real goals... I may try and level up my SS/Shield brute (15) or my Fire/WP brute (31). Blueside... hmm, well I've a 43 Plant/Storm who's been sitting there since issue 14 hit that I probably should think about leveling.
Dangit, most of the characters I really like to play are already 50... I haven't played a non-50 to any extent in quite a while. With 12 of the things there's always one who catches my attention on the login screen over one of the lowbies.
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You can check out my guide to soft capping an Invuln for thoughts on building and IO slotting; it will give you a tank who's almost as tough as he was back in issue 4.
Like you I had a lot of HO's in my build at the time issue 9 rolled around; it took me a total of 5 respecs to end up with my current build and pull off roughly 50 HO's.
I don't know how you're fixed for inf, but my soft cap build shouldn't cost too terribly much... when I wrote the guide a couple of issues ago the whole thing cost roughly 10-15 million; by issue 15 the price tag had climbed into the 20-40 million range. I really haven't looked recently but the way the market's come down since issue 16 it should be considerably cheaper than that. This is just the essentials that build def of course; if you want to boost recharge, regen, recovery and so forth then you're looking at more sets, and more expensive ones at that.
Some HO's are now selling for silly amounts of inf; you could always respec and then sell a few. Membranes were selling for 80 million a month ago... so were Ribosome. One of those will more than pay for the build. -
Quote:Exactly my thoughts, pump S/L to as near 45% as you can and you're probably good enough; E/N can be disregarded and, frankly, F/C is rare enough you shouldn't need to worry much.Originally Posted by Grid_Lock
So I rolled a Mace/ELA tank today. I'm Looking forward to leveling him up, maybe hitting a bit of pvp for the heck of it. However... What do you guys think I should be slotting for in terms of bonuses. I was thinking of getting as much +def in there as i could. Soft capping the s/l and maybe a little of F/C as well. The nrgy def is allready very high, so I dont think ill have to worry about that...
Thoughts?
I can tell you that on pure SO's the set's pretty squishy... I had a level bumped Elec/SS tanker in the closed beta testing and he wasn't up to heavy tanking without outside support. Adding significant S/L def would turn it from a poor performer into a pretty nice tank.
I'd have to playtest it some, but my initial thought is after getting S/L def taken care of to work on recharge and regen.
Oh, one minor nitpick, since you're talking about a tanker it would be ELA/Mace... Mace/ELA would be a brute. I know, it's a minor thing but I have to mentally translate it every time I see it inverted. I'm funny that way
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Quote:Mud Pots alone isn't a reason to choose Stone... with the exception of Willpower every other tanker aura is as good or better for aggro purposes. Without Granite a Stone tank is simply a defense tanker with poor mobility easily outsurvived by, well, nearly every other primary. If you hate Granite then you do not want to play a stone tank. Period.Originally Posted by Plusone
Ok, I want Mud Pots so I can soak up hate like a sponge, but I hate granite, would it be silly to not take granite and try and tank using the lesser armors?
Would I still be able to alpha tank without Granite armor?
Do you want really good aggro handling abilities coupled with very nice damage? Roll a Shield tank... /Fire, /Super Strength or /Electric would compliment it nicely. Easily soft capped defensively and it gives you ok resists and a very nice damage buff. I have a soft capped Shield Scrapper who can tank quite well and holds aggro nicely... and is durable enough to main tank the ITF.
Want a bit less damage but more survivability? Invulnerability may fit in there nicely... with a relatively inexpensive IO build it's easy to soft cap your defenses, giving you a tanker that's second only to Stone for durability. And trust me, you will have a MUCH easier time with aggro control with an Invuln, Shield or Ice than with a Stone.
Want the absolute king of aggro control? Ice armor does a great job. It's somewhat less sturdy than Shield but it will be adequate to the challenge if you build it to the soft cap. It does lack any significant resists unfortunately.
From what you're saying Stone would be a very poor fit for you; you'd do far better choosing a different primary. Stone offers unparalleled durability in exchange for mobility, recharge & damage penalties. Even outside of Granite you will still have the mobility problems; remember Rooted is your Mez protection.