BurningChick

Heya Flamer,

Just to add some things to what you said:

First, and foremost, the devs HAVE to change the current SG system from 75 toons to 75 accounts.

Second, the devs should add a mechanism that allows two SGs to merge if their total membership < 75 accounts. All the prestige, bin contents, badges, and assorted loot would be preserved as well. Why is this important? Because I don't think the playerbase realized just how many active players are needed for a blinged base. With the active playerbase dwindling, this is going to be a big issue in the months to come. A LOT of prestige is simply evaporating from the game's economy.

Third, the devs have to start working on the bugs, from base crashes to the still-borked Items of Power.

Fourth, the devs have to add functionality to the bases beyond PvP. Why? Because so few people care about PvP. Bases in CoX are geared towards PvP, but the devs have consistently over-estimated how popular it would be.

Fifth, the devs have to make base raids work.

No comment about the cost of things because, frankly, I know nothing about that.

I remember, last year, when bases were new 'n' cool. But ... they were outlandishly buggy. Teleporters didn't work. The load times were awful. They crashed for no reason. Bases would disappear and have to be restored by GMs. They still don't do everything the devs promised. Most people simply stopped caring about them, and drifted towards SGs with close friends rather than the monster SGs the devs had planned for.

It also irks me that Statesman, at least in the article we're talking about, blames the playerbase for being too greedy to realize how fantastic bases are. He completely ignored Cryptic's role in all of this. If the CoP had shipped at release, there would have, at the very least, been some kind of reward for having a large base.

I'm scared [censored] to play around with my base.

Further, I'm not sure why I would want to.

Oooooohhhhh ...

If mob proximity actually worked, my stone / EA brute (no damage aura, no taunt) would actually build fury respectably when in teams with other brutes.

This is a REAL drag in AV / hero fights where I've slugged it out for a couple minutes, while teamed, and basically had no more than one fourth of a fury bar.

Hi Statesman,

If you're really going to start listening to your players more ...

How 'bout trying to make FF live up to your expectations with a true set of powers that are useful, instead of living down to _Castle_'s expectations where half the set is situational by design, and possibly not worth slotting -- or even taking.

I mean, it's nice 'n' all that you listened to FF defenders and tossed many of our ideas into Sonic, Thermal, and Cold, but ... ummm ... it kinda' blows that ya'll haven't turned that feedback onto FF itself. In Beta, did the devs not see that the split nature of FF, keeping mobs out of melee AND giving squishies the def and mez protection to survive within melee, would be problematic?

I've said it before ... and I'll say it agin; you've had one of the toughest jobs with CoX: trying to keep the lid on a bunch of, sometimes, belligerent nerds. But you've handled your job better than any other board admin I've ever seen.

Goodbye, Cuppa -- and I hope to see you at Tabula Rasa

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... Burn just sticks out 'cause it was so freakingly, amazingly over-powered for about a year. And, yes, my only 50 is a fire / fire tanker. I know *precisely* how over the top burn was...

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How far "over the top" were the changes to "fix" this power? I feel the changes to the power itself were a bit much - considering mob AI was conveniently and simultaneously recoded to further "nerf" Burn's effectiveness. Add ED and then watch the power's effectiveness slip below Bob Dole virility.

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3-slotting for damage versus 6 is largely offset by making burn buffable by FE, BU, and any other +dam buff I can think off. If you team, it's not that hard to find someone who can keep mobs in burn.

To me, it's like like having SB on my kin or insulation shield on my bubbler; duh, they're useless while solo, but are quite nice in teams. And burn ... is not useless while solo, you just have to pick out a decent time 'n' place to use it, instead of putting it on auto while the invuln tanker herds mobs onto you.

And FA still has pretty good damage output, regardless of burn, because of FE and blazing aura. FA's primary problem, as I've said before, is surving alpha strikes from big spawns while teamed.

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well i cant see what else you would call "nerfing" burn

posi might not remember it but its one of those powers that we "use" to use

since hes not nerfing things..maybe he can tell us when he plans on fixing the power he messed up then?

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I would call Burn's change many things:


Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
etc.

Just because I don't use the word "nerf" does not mean things will never be adjusted in a downward direction.

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Lots of powers are skippable / situational. Burn just sticks out 'cause it was so freakingly, amazingly over-powered for about a year. And, yes, my only 50 is a fire / fire tanker. I know *precisely* how over the top burn was.

And ... know what? It's OK once again when used in combination with AoE powers, from other sets, that keep mobs from moving. And there are lots of 'em in the game. The combination of BU, FE, and burn can chug out a lot of damage these days, especially when compared to the damage output other tankers have.

I actually think it's a good thing when there's ... hmmm ... synergy between sets that offset, or even eliminate, certain weaknesses. Kins, for instance, make stone tankers very, very good. Bubbled up fire tankers are damn near unkillable. Ice and invuln tankers with a sonic defender are forces of nature.

That's not to say that FA doesn't have problems; I think it does, but those have to do more with surviving big alphas than damage output.

Pining for the good ol days of burn doesn't get us anywhere.

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To be fair, MoG is a Scrapper/Stalker power, so we should compare it to similar sets, not gimp Defender sets like Force Fields.

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40% def with close to 5% more from maneuvers is ... not particularly gimp under def scaling. And that's a big chunk of my point; some sets perform decently while having poor / mediocre 9th (and, in the case of FF, 7th, 8th, and 9th) tier powers.

As for my post comparing MoG to force bubble, I believe the comparison was valid since the guy I was replying to said ... "defensive sets" ... and FF is all bout the def. Had he said "melee sets," well, that'd be different.

But I notice you didn't exactly jump on my comparison to RotP

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Just compare MoG to other Tier 9 defensive powers!

I think it sucks.

(with apologies to /Dark)

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Like ... Force Bubble? ... Rise of the Phoenix?

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Like Elude....Like Unstoppable...Like Overload

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Yup, some tier 9s are good. And some are bad.

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Just compare MoG to other Tier 9 defensive powers!

I think it sucks.

(with apologies to /Dark)

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Like ... Force Bubble? ... Rise of the Phoenix?

My fire / fire tank, about 2 years old, is half-way to the fourth damage badge.

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I'm not sure I'd expect this to keep working like that for very long

Sounds like something they hadn't thought of.

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Or it IS something they've thought of, and that's why Doms are so lackluster overall?

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The devs have said previously that some powers are intended to be used with others in order to bring them to their fullest potential.

Fear from Burn (and the rains)? AoE slow / hold / immob (per States).

Aggro from force bubble? Taunt-bot (per _Castle_).

Drained of end? Transference.

Non-perma RA, haste, you name it? AM and SB.

I'm not saying that the domination thing is or isn't a bug, just that the devs don't have a lot of problems with players being significantly boosted by buffs; it's self-buffing into perma-godhood with no downside they have issues with.

Edit: posted in the wrong thread.

My only bug is that one of my characters is having clipping issues from the back with a male jacket (military?). It's the same clipping I see with Family thugs who are sitting on the docks in Nerva.

Hmmm ...

Much to ponder.

Just one note, however: between I5 and I6 (i.e., during CoV beta), force bubble's end cost was seriously reduced, to something like 1/3 of its previous value. With stamina and 1 redux, it's not a problem to run disperion bubble, FB, and a couple of leadership toggles.

It also makes me think, once again, that FF was poorly designed since having high def makes it more or less irrelevant if bubbled players are zerging towards melee. I wonder if the devs should have replaced the single target buffs; one would be offensive (ranged / AoE damage / accuracy buff) and an AoE heal. That would be "ranged support" and a nice counterpoint to kin's "melee support". Then, the devs should've made an additional set that does high single target def buffs with some additional buffs / debuffs / controls for variety.

Oh ... wait ... didn't something similar make it into CoV?

Hi Arcanaville,

I have some weird, possibly unanswerable, questions.

FF does, mostly, two things: buff defense and keep mobs at range (out of melee). But ... a lot of ranged critter attacks (especially guns) debuff defense. Since a bubbler can put her teammates awfully close to the nearly mystical level of 45% defense, what happens if a FF defender lights of force bubble? Once upon a time, Statesman said this power was designed to to keep squishies out of range from more damaging melee attacks.

But if ranged attacks often debuff defense, doesn't this set up the situation, paraphrasing you, of accelarating incoming hits? Does anyone know the value of critter debuffs? And what point does the value of a FF defender keeping mobs out of melee become outweighed by watching def dwindle?

FWIW, what I've noticed in playing CoH and CoV is that most FF defenders, if they even bother to take force bubble, rarely use it. If they do use it, like as not, it's used for positioning mobs. In contrast, many (generally bots) FF MMs never turn FB off. They say that it both keeps their pets (mostly bots) using their more powerful ranged attacks, and it slows down the rate of incoming damage. MMs use the power as the devs intended; defenders generally don't.

The only significant difference between in FF for MMs and defenders is that the def numbers for defenders are superior in value, and vastly superior in performance.

Does keeping mobs at range actually make having high defense less valuable?

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I was not sure where to post this question, so here it is. When will you restore burn back to being a viable power? With herding precluded it would appear that the nerf to burn is now moot; or for that matter, the tank nerf's in general. I would like to know when burn will be restored and if not, why?

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Ummm ...

Because it did nearly nuke-level damage, cost a pittance for endurance, and was awfully close to being perma? Hell, at one point it was STACKABLE.

I miss burn as much as anyone, but it was INSANELY over-powered. It ain't coming back to its I3 goodness. Give it up. The devs have already explained the nerfings to burn several times.

However ... burn is now buffable by assault, reds, fiery embrace, buildup, fulcrum shift, siphon power and god knows what else. On Test, BU + FE came close to doubling its damage. (i.e, damage capped with 3 green damage SOs). If you team up with someone who has an AoE immobilze, slow, or hold, it's all good.

And that's the point: aside from the recharge, it can be made almost as good as it was back in the day. But, like most other powers in the game, it needs some third party help to reach its fullest potential. To me, that's a pretty fair trade-off.

However, I would love to see temp prot or burn retooled into giving some kind KB / non-annoying immob protection. Even seeing burn turned into another PBAoE damage toggle, like a small AoE BA, would be good. I'd even love to see a whole bunch of 1s go up. The damage output would be down, but I'd like the old-school feel, and not having to take acrobatics would be a nice touch.

I just find it odd that, on my fire tanker, HF slotted 3 recharge, 3 heal comes up slower and heals for less than aid self slotted 3 heal, 1 interrupt redux, 1 recharge.

In the long run, aid self heals for more with less slotting.

FWIW, I also think that temperature protection should get immob and KB protection, even low grade like elec, so that FA folks don't feel quite so obligated to grab CJ / SJ / Acrobatics. There's no reason at all to keep immob protection in burn; it just doesn't fit there, and the power is otherwise too easily skippable.

*ponders*

I wonder what the numbers would've been like with a force field defender? Lumi's power zerge style of gameplay probably would have been much, MUCH safer, but XP / min might have gone down considerably without the offensive buffs.

Unless ... it lets teams use riskier tactics.

But I digress.

Nice test, folks!

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PvE testing shows Acid Arrow still at 20%. Maybe it's some messed up PvP thing?

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Acid Arrow has a larger debuff in PvP than in PvE, at least for Defenders. Controllers and Mastermind PVE & PVP values match.

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Is there a list somewhere of defender powers that actually work *better* in PvP than in PvE? Darkest Night sorta' kinda' does with its damage debuff, but debuffing 50% of base damage (and not touching enhanced damage) generally leaves it worse off in PvP than PvE.

Related question: are you folks looking at bumping up more defender powers in PvP?

Do ya'll know what I want from my bubbler?

Some combination of unresistable KB from her three KB powers and / or a way to buff offense and / or increased numbers for toggle drops. Damn it, if you're standing in repulsion field and then get hit with repulsion bomb and force bolt, I don't care who you are, I expect to see you launched half-way across Siren's Call.

In exchange, I'd accept a recharge nerf to detention field, which, apparently, is being talked up into FoTM territory because of how annoying, bordering on griefing, it is.

Hi Blueeyed,

Thank you for efforts

It might be time to start up an "I7 defender issues" thread since we have old and new issues to deal with.

And I'm still scratching my head over what to do with my bubbler in PvP. The only thing I can think of is 6-slot PFF (3 recharges, 3 def) and 5-slot detention field (2 accuracies and 3 recharges). And then I just wander around the PvP zones detaining folks, particularly when I can find one on one battles.

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Strange. It's been, what, nearly three days, and I don't see a ten page post crying that knockback suppression should be removed so that Force Bolt - one of my only remaining personal defenses - can be used more than once a fight, against the rare enemy that isn't completely immune to it.

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Know what? It should invuln, ice, and stone tankers picking up the torch for FF and demanding that FF be bumped up for PvP. FF can turn these sets into "can't-touch-me" gods with the buffs.

Only ... how many bubblers will be drawn into PvP now? It is 0 fun to be reduce to a buff [censored].

FF has more powers that affect mobs (5) than def buffs (4). Those mob-affecting powers should do something in PvP other than pseudo-griefing (detention field).

I'm just sayin'.

Hi _Castle_,

I always thought that FF had such prodigious toggle dropping abilities in its KB powers because KB is awfully close to being completely resisted in PvP -- between acrobatics, hover, supression, buffs, and def sets, I've rarely sent someone flying compared to how often I've used my bubbler's KB powers.

If FF's KB powers do virtually no damage, don't regularly KB, and don't toggle reliably, why bother using ... or even taking ... them? Even though toggle dropping was a godawful, inelegant kludge, it gave my bubbler something useful to do beyond being a buff [censored]. Now ... FF's best toggle dropper, repulsion bomb, has a mind-numbing 3+ second animation time, a 1/4 chance to drop a single toggle, and a goofy 30 second recharge. It has something like a 1/4 (generously 1/3) chance to stun someone with no mez protection. It was, at best, a marginal power in PvE that could be put to good use in PvP ... and now, we're back to it being virtually pointless in both PvE and PvP.

That means my bubbler is, well, down to buffing and using detention field. And I *hate* detention field; it's annoying in a very, very bad way that feels cheap, bordering on griefing. My bubbler's blasts? They're really not much more than an annoyance; I've only ever dropped a couple toons with my bubbler in PvP (and been defeated *lots*, yes, I only PvP on teams), and both were fire tankers I herded with force bubble. And both took multiple minutes to drop while I worked *very* hard to keep them detoggled.

My ability to detoggle mobs was my *primary* source of defense in PvP. Once I got in a few toggle drops, melee toons generally fled -- even if, deep down, they knew I otherwise wouldn't be able to defeat them.

Is that your vision for FF? Buffers and detainers? Or am I missing something?

PvP was, for months, the most fun I had with my bubbler ... but now?

*shrugs*

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Each attack from Spectral Wounds damages the target, then after a set period, heals the target. Thus, it's all handled by the attacking power. Regen, however, is a defense set, and would need to track all incoming attacks in order for this to work as described.

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Logic error?

Spectral wounds - TRACKS EACH HIT - then heals after specified time.

Regen - to do this, we'd have to TRACK EACH HIT...

Per'aps me Eeengleesh ees no good? Iddn't dat de same t'ing, mon?

Or, in simpler terms... This one is a hammer I made. For that to work, I'd have to make a hammer...

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In simpler terms:

Spectral wounds is one specially coded attack.

To make the "damage recovery" thing fly, every single damaging power in the game would have to be recoded to potentially heal back damage. For one set. Based on whether or not a particular power is activated. In fact, it would probably necessitate a complete reworking of the entire damage system, both PvE and PvP. You'd have to work in a blaster's unresistable damage. You'd have to work the enhancements. You'd have some god-awful server-side processing to do with DoT attacks like burn and rain of fire.

Yeesh.

And your attempt at some weird kind of Jamaican accent to make your point clearer to _Castle_ comes off as bigotted trolling, suggesting that folks of Carribean heritage just aren't up to your high standards of intellect.

Thread getting locked in 10 ... 9 ... 8 ...

And you're right and the dev is wrong