Bright Shadow
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:You actually think the developers are not aware of what is happening in their own game.Originally Posted by Hugginator
But I doubt it, its more likely they are busy elsewhere and maybe they are even clueless about the damage this thing is causing. It could even be they are trying to figure out how to close pandoras box, but I doubt that as well.
Wow. -
Quote:Actually, there are some purples that are very cheap proportionally.Originally Posted by Call_Me_Awesome
Another thing to keep in mind is that most of the purple sets are EXTREMELY expensive at Wentworths; unless you have a huge bankroll you can probably forget about them. For the cost of one purple recipe you could probably completely outfit your character with really good non-purple sets.
A "cheap" purple set will cost ~50,000,000 - 80,000,000 per recipe while the better sets can cost hundreds of millions per recipe. It's something to keep in mind when you're planning a build.
One of the purple IOs I absolutely love is Ragnorak: Chance for Knockdown.
People keep telling me it's inefficient. But I dunno. I just love a bunch of Cimerorans get blasted down to their butts from a fire ball! :P
I have it on almost all my characters who have a Ranged AoE attack with no built-in knockdown functionality. It's fun! xD -
Quote:It reminds me of the kid who says something, then puts his hands over his ears and starts singing "I CAN'T HEAR YOU! LALALALALA!"Originally Posted by Folonius
And that's why your so freggin' stupid. Whenever someone who makes sense puts you to shame, you put them on ignore.
I stand by what I said in an earlier thread, your that crazy guy who comes in, babbles nonsense, and goes running off because you can't hear what anyone else on the forums are saying since they are all on ignore.
The new forums must have been a nightmare for you, purging your massive ignore list. -
Quote:Honestly, there are so many threads on AE, I kinda mix 'em up at times. I wouldn't be surprised if others did too.Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
Why are people in here talking about AE ???
That isn't real farming.
That is more like PowerLeveling.
/sighs
Here's an screenshot of all my subscribed threads, zoomed out. Minus like, 4 or 5 of them, all of them are mostly centered about AE and farming.
Isn't this ridiculous?! -
[QR]
Why are anti-farmers are using Mito Farms as a basis for their arguments?
Mito Farm was an exploit. It was taken care of by the developers. Discussion over.
As of now, there are no enemies in AE that do not attack, or that provide a very large experience bonus compared to the risk involved. If you think fighting level 54 bosses have no risks, then I have nothing to discuss with you, as you have no idea how the game works. -
Quote:That was exactly my reaction. I was getting ready to post "Dead horse." xDOriginally Posted by Solicio
When I first read "Freeform Respecs" I assumed you meant changing your primaries/secondaries, but I was very pleasantly surprised. I like your idea, and I think it would definitely improve QoL. I wouldn't be suprised to see it implemented.
Yes, I do like the idea, though. Definitely /signed. -
I didn't know what debt was until level 25ish or something. And this was back in the day when playing a blaster meant leveling at half-speed.
When the person told me, I was like "
"... xD
I love that emote, by the way! -
I recently got negative reputation because...wait for it...
"iuyh.lujgb./;b"
Apparently we have an alien-speaking user on the forums!
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Quote:I agree with you. You are free to suspect something is an exploit. That's why you are given tools to notify the developers in case you think something is an exploit.Originally Posted by Radionuclide
I can agree with that to an extent. Only the devs can say exactly what an exploit is. However, we are all intelligent beings. Our brains can analyze a situation and extrapolate possibilities. We have an idea of the risk vs reward ratio established in this universe, at least if you have ever played any of the cannon content. This is why I disagree to an extent with Nethergoat's assessment that the definition of you know it when you see it is hooey.
Walking into a farm say with mobs that have no attacks, I cannot imagine not thinking that something is wrong with what is going on here. To me, it is an obvious exploit. I don't really need the devs to tell me that.
--Rad
You notify the developers. That arc, instance, whatever gets flagged. And the developers decide if it actually is an exploit or not. End of story.
By coming here and saying everyone is a cheater and an exploitive farmer, like a certain someone I will not name, you're not solving anything. You're merely setting yourself up for a flame post. -
The way I see it...
Farming has a very definitive, absolute meaning. It is the repetition of a certain task in order to maximize its benefits. Hence why it is called farming. Because that's pretty much what happens in agricultural farming, which is the origin of the word 'farm'.
Power-leveling has a very relative definition. In a universe in which, on average, it takes players one month to go from the lowest possible level, to the highest possible level, power-leveling would be taking that journey in a proportionally quicker time (i.e. Let's say one week). In a universe where everyone does the same thing in one week, then that one-week leveler is no longer a power-leveler.
Exploiting, like farming, has a very definitive, and absolute meaning. However, it's definition, in no way, shape, or form, even overlaps the definition of farming. And the only people who can define what exactly falls under the term "exploit" and what doesn't, are the people who design the rules for this game, also known as Paragon Studios and NCSoft. -
Quote:This is a sound point. I approve of this, and it is basically what I've been trying to say, more or less.Originally Posted by Barata
I posted this in a different thread, but I'll stick it here, for whatever it's worth.
There's a couple different factions more or less battling it out.... the players who enjoy AE or support it and feel that as long as they pay their money and aren't exploiting, they should be able to play as they see fit, and the players who feel that AE is ruining the game.
Both sides have valid arguments and both sides are equally right in voicing their displeasure.
To better understand the other side, let's use an example that's not part of this game. Let's say a new business opened up in your town letting gamers hook up with each other and play a variety of games. For a modest membership fee, you can enter a comfortable environment and play chess, backgammon, or Risk with other players. You enjoy chess and backgammon and are not too crazy about Risk, but no big deal. A few nights a week you head over and hook up with people and play chess and backgammon. A year or two passes, it's part of your normal routine and you look forward to it, and the club decides it will expand and puts out playing cards so people can play card games. No big deal, you're not big on playing cards, but live and let live. Shortly after this introduction of playing cards though, you see that a significant portion of the membership is now playing poker. You don't mind, but find that it takes you longer to find partners to play chess with. Whereas before there were normally 20 or 30 people looking to hook up for chess, now there's 8 or 9, and on some nights it takes you significantly longer to get a game of chess going.
Is it wrong for the patrons to play poker? No. But is it wrong for the chess lover to feel that his experience is now less than it was before? Once again, No. The club underwent change. The change was neither beneficial nor detrimental, it was simply change. Some people benefited, and have the right to exclaim how much they love the change, but likewise, some people were impacted and have just as much right to say how much they dislike the change.
That's basically what happened to CoH. We can go back and forth all we want whether it's good or bad. It's neither and it's both. To the person who enjoys the game as it was, it's bad. For the person who wanted more than what was offered before, it's good.
All we can do is adapt to changes. CoH is not -my- game. CoH is not -your- game. CoH is the game that belongs to all of its subscribers. And the only people who actually know what's best for the community as a whole, as those who spend most of their lives designing this virtual world. This debate is as pointless as it can get.
Can we please drop this topic, move on, and adapt?
Is it really hard to just drop this stupid argument and log back into CoH and enjoy the game we love, the way we want to? -
Quote:I heavily doubt this would shut Altoholic up.Originally Posted by Not_Epsilon
Maybe if the two sides conversed with say a dev and could come to some sort of understanding, it would help, but as long as Altoholic is around spewing nonsense and ignoring his opposition, such goals are near-impossible.
On that note, I wonder why they're still playing the game... -
Quote:The_Alt_oholic is calling me, along with an army of people 'cheaters' and 'exploiters'.Originally Posted by Hugginator
The_Alt_oholic, is bang on the point.
Most PL'rs and Farmers are too short sighted, they can't see the forest for the trees. Its a self destructing pattern of short term thinking and greed.
(yes there are exceptions and caveats, but the overarching concept is true)
The truth, as Alt and others have tried to explain, is that the trivialization of the game is dangerous long term.
Maybe the devs want to push the subscribers to more of a churn rate subscription type where people play for a month or 2 and move on, away from the previous type where people generally subscribed longer term, if so they should let us know asap.
But I doubt it, its more likely they are busy elsewhere and maybe they are even clueless about the damage this thing is causing. It could even be they are trying to figure out how to close pandoras box, but I doubt that as well.
Whatever it is, pretending that you and others are somehow 'explaining' away the points that Alt and others have made isn't working.
All 'you' have done is present another opinion, and in my opinion they have been generally myopic.
Maybe some of the points have value or are even correct in a vacuum, but against the bigger picture they don't carry much weight.
If you think that means "seeing the big picture", then there is something wrong with your definition of "big picture" in my opinion.
I see it as an insult to the community. And as a member of the community, I feel it is both my right and responsibility to stand up to someone who tries to bully his or her opinion upon us. -
Quote:I was being sarcastic, hun.Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
It's not like it was a secret.
Not with terms like ZPM (zombies per minute) being thrown about the Market forum at one time.
And it's not like I would have a character or two who are designed to play primarily at L50 and L29-ish.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Calash
Wait wait WAIT!!! You mean the box wasn't joking??
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Quote:Exactly! And that is what I'm saying! The developers crush exploits when they see fit! They've done it in the past, and they'll do it again and again if needed.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
See, here I was thinking I was using a pretty narrow brush, to use your term.
I don't care about farming in the slightest. I am not an anti-farmer. I am anti-exploitation.
I, unlike many others I have seen, am aware that there is a difference between farming and exploiting.
If you are farming (the way the term is meant) you are maximizing the gain you can get out of one or two particular missions. The reward is generally only greater because it is run by an efficient team that is skilled at defeating foes quickly. Not everyone is capable of this, as it requires ATs that work well together, players that work well together, and most importantly, players that know what they're doing.
If you are exploiting, you are cheating, plain and simple. You have found a loophole in the game that allows you to gain out of proportion rewards for little or no risk, or even effort.
The all Boss, EB, or AV farms are just that, farms. Your average team will not fare well in these missions because the enemies are difficult enough one at a time, let alone in groups. It takes a skilled team to get any kind of decent reward rate out of these missions.
The healing mito farms, on the other hand, are an exploit. Any moron can enter these missions and level like mad, while never even being targeted by an enemy, let alone take enough damage to be in danger. You don't even need enhancements on your characters because there is no threat.
I'm sure the developers don't need a few hundred threads about how farming AE is ruining CoH. They have their own data. They know what is going on. And if they were worried about it, they'd have done something about it. -
Quote:You farm Dark Astoria?!Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I don't exploit anything and I don't care who knows how I spend my game time (mostly ignoring MA, farming Dark Astoria, playing around on the market, occasionally running solo door missions).
*goes and starts a thread about how Dark Astoria is ruining CoX* -
Quote:Hehe. I know I16's challenge slider will probably affect things a lot.Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
Right, but don't you think the difficulty sliders slated to be introduced in I16 will lure them back to farming for purples in the regular content, even if it's only part of the time?
Myself, I'm inclined to say yes. Also, I don't farm, but I do have a few lvl 50 characters that will have those sliders upped, because they can handle it, and it'll increase the chance of purple drops. I'm sure I won't be alone in doing that.
So I'm pretty confident that purple supply will, come I16, go up. The question is: will it be enough to bring prices down? I'm hoping it will be. But we'lll see.
Truth be told, I think the biggest hindrance will be set expectations. People will continue to pay the high prices, even if they don't have to.
Oh, sure, I'd agree with that. It just seems to me that a lot of them came close to their current peaks before MA even hit the scene.
Some, however, went into the stratosphere, and I think MA's to blame for that.
And yes. Many people took many things into the extreme points just to provide a basis for their arguments. And it never worked too well. :/
Also! You need to enable rep system so I can toss positive rep in your way!
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Quote:I think you're using the concept of exploitation a bit too freely, Atheism.Originally Posted by Atheism
As long as no one else knows about your exploiting, there shouldn't be a problem.
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Quote:That is actually true.Originally Posted by Kiralyn
Bright Shadow, I was merely asking that question to clarify Nethergoat's philosophy. It seems like he's saying that anything you can do in the game isn't an exploit, until after the Devs say so.
Only developers get to say what is an exploit and what is not.
And if it is not clear whether or not something is an exploit from the developers of the game, then that doesn't give any of the players any right to decide if it is an exploit or not.
Mind you, harassment is a different topic, and is not the same thing as exploitive behavior. -
Quote:Is someone hurting your playing in game?Originally Posted by Kiralyn
Ah, but in a multiplayer game, some playstyles can impact on the other players.
For example, in some other games, someone might enjoy spending four hours wiping out all the NPCs in the opposing faction's newbie zone..... thereby ruining the playstyle of all those newbies. Especially if it's a non-PvP game.
The "hurting other players" thing is also one of the main arguements against the RMTers in many games - the RMT crowd ends up distorting the in-game economy, screwing things up for anyone who doesn't use their services.
Report them. The developers will take care of it if needed. Do not come here and tell everyone what you think is the right thing for them to do. That's a game moderator's job. Not yours. -
Quote:True. But before, farmers where in regular maps that gave them purple drops (I did farm for this particular purpose before AE).Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
And what seems to be overlooked here all too often is that MA didn't create that problem. Merits did.
MA added fuel to that particular fire, sure, but it didn't start it. And of the two contributors, it honestly looks like the lesser of the evils.
I'm hoping I16 will deflate the prices of purple recipes a bit.
Right now, they farm for tickets. And you can't get purple recipes with tickets.
Sure, AE wasn't the ONLY cause. But I think it contributed in a major way. On the bright side, the abundance of tickets and bronze rolls has brought down the prices of many commonly used recipes that used to be ridiculously rare before. -
Quote:A map filled with completely passive Healing Mitos was an exploit.Originally Posted by Kiralyn
I'd just like a clarification on this.
Is it your position that, until the Devs said "no, don't do that", there was absolutely nothing wrong (i.e, no one could look at the situation and say, 'heck, that ain't right') with gaining boatloads of XP/Inf from an MA map filled with completely passive Healing Mitos?
That this was not an obvious exploit?
Newsflash!
It got 'fixed' by the developers.
A map filled with level 54 bosses that make most PuGs shiver and scream in terror is an exploit...?!
Newflash!
It has not been 'fixed' by the developers.
Do you see the logical connection here? -
Quote:You should read this.Originally Posted by Atheism
So in otherwords, exploiting the game is ok.
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I really want to just pretend The_Alt_oholic doesn't exist. But I just can't. It's so much fun ripping his/her posts apart and throwing his/her own flawed logic back in his/her face...
Quote:Give me some of your story arcs that you're worked so hard on. I wanna play them. And I'm not being snarky. Seriously.Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
The constant changes to the AE to take out exploits being used the the AE farm/PL'rs. I'm contantly having to change my missions because objects are taken out. Sometimes just taken out and put back in. Other times it's some kind of object that would have a reason to be taken out of a farming/pl'ing mission that I'm using because the object looks cool. The same goes for maps.
Regardless, you think putting all those restrictions on AE that you have been suggesting over and over again in various threads are not gonna put other people in inconvenience?
Every change makes at least one person unhappy. Grow up. Learn. Adapt.
So you're saying all those regular content missions that are in Atlas Park should be removed from the zone? Along with all the people chit-chatting under Atlas Square?Quote:Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
The broadcast spamming in Atlas for AE teams. There is an AE channel, but it isn't used. Instead the broadcast in Atlas is full with people trying to fill level 50 teams. The lower level zones are for lower level players.
What about all those level 1 characters in PI before AE? Are you gonna police them too?
All non-hazard zones are open to all characters of any level. No where in the game, EULA, and ToS does it say that I shouldn't make a level 50 team in Atlas. In fact, I might go start making level 50 regular content teams in Atlas and then moving to Peregrine with them just to spite you.
Don't talk about what you don't know much about.Quote:Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
The prices are being driven up in the markets. Regardless of who says what, there has been massive inflation in the markets. This is directly AE related both due to the lack of players running normal missions and the prices that people are able to pay due to gold farming. Yes, gold farming. That is one of the side effects of these pl'ing sprees that continue to go on.
The inflation is happening over Purple Recipes. Believe it or not, Mr. Marketeer, AE has helped reduce prices for a variety of other recipes. Especially things like Crushing Impacts and Obliterations due to Bronze Recipe Rolls.
And even before AE, when merits were introduced people still had way too much in-game currency. Inflation is a natural part of any economy. Deal with it.
It's only degrading if you WANT to think it's degrading.Quote:Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
The degradation of what it means to have a level 50. Sure there was pl'ing before the AE, but it was minute compared to the massive waves of power-leveled 50's that have been created since the AE was released.
AE has opened doors to those people who were never able to get any level 50s for whatever reason. Getting a level 50 is not about how much of your time it consumed. It's about enjoying your path to level 50.
I enjoy it by participating in TFs, some regular content, doing friends' regular AE arcs, and sometimes participating in fighting level 54 purple bosses. I enjoy that. It's fun for me.
It's not fun for you? I couldn't care less. Go and do those newspaper missions you love and adore so much.
It is their choice. It is their money. It is their free time.Quote:Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
The effect on new player experience. I should not have to add this to my statement, but to make it clear - in my opinion, the AE activity in the lower level zones is ruining new player experience. There was pl'ing before, but it wasn't a walk through a couple of level 1 mobs away from where they zone into the game. Players are not getting to experience the "normal" game before they are being drawn into the AE. They might think it is cool to see the levels spin by, but all of those levels were times that they could have been gradually learning their powers and the different zones of the City. It is a problem when a level 50 steps out of the AE and doesn't know where the trainer is - because if they don't know where the trainer is they didn't even run the tutorial or, at the very least, they didn't read all the great information that is there for new players.
If they wish to level fast in a game they just bought without experiencing the game lore and story, then it is their decision, their loss, and their form of amusement.
They won't be getting on my teams anytime soon.
You call it spam. Others call it annoyance. I call it regular, expected broadcast chatter.Quote:Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
AE farmer/pl'rs insisting that others need to change the way that they experience the game in order to avoid their AE farming/pl'ing behavior in the lower level zone, because they refuse to change their playstyle so that it won't interfere with "normal" game content. I've seen posts telling players to turn off broadcast if they don't want to hear farming/pl chat. Broadcast is an integral part of the gaming experience in the City. Instead of the AE farmer/pl'rs moving to the AE channel, they expect other players to give up a game function that has been used for team building since release? This is not the only example of this kind of behavior that they feel that others should change in order to avoid their AE farming/pl'ing behavior. The AE farm/pl'rs don't seem to understand that they are the ones that were forcing their playstyle and it's effects on others and that we are reacting to the effect of their "playstyle" has caused and continues to cause to the game in general.
You were given tools to avoid "their playstyle". Use them. Put them on ignore. Turn off broadcast. Do what YOU feel is necessary to make the game enjoyable for yourself.
No one is forcing their playstyle on you. Read my previous point.Quote:Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
All of that is relevant. It is other players forcing the effects of their game play style on me through it's effect on my gaming environment. I like the "real" idea of the AE, but it isn't being used it is being exploited.
Farming is not cheating. Farming is not exploiting. Farming is doing a task repetitively for an efficient balance of risk vs. reward.Quote:Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
Deal with the fact that you aren't playing the game if you are exploiting it. You are cheating. You cheat when you break the rules. If you are exploiting the game you are breaking the rules. If you are an AE farmer/pl'r then you are a cheater. It's true.
"Mew Farms" were exploitive. They got squashed.
"Mito Farms" were exploitive. They got squashed.
The sooner you get that through your head, the happier you'll be.
Read my previous statement.Quote:Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
Exploitation and cheating is not a valid playstyle. The fact that you are cheating and exploiting means that it is "invalid" as it is against the rules.
Read my previous statement.Quote:Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
I'd rather see an insta-50 button in the game than to continue to have to hear about how abusing the AE by farming/pl'ing is a valid playstyle. At least the insta-50 button would be a legitimate way to get to 50.
Read it? Do it again.
You think I'm cheating if I farm in AE?Quote:Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
Stop cheating and play the game. You might find out that you really enjoy it. I know that I do.
Go ahead and report me. My global is @Bright Shadow. But don't whine and cry about it.
Learn to tolerate peoples' differences. Accept change. Adapt to it.
Do not try to enforce your ideas on others.