Bright Shadow
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Your post made me realize something.Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
Aye...the 54 boss farms are more of a challenge, even solo, than the Roman wall farming. Considering the troops on the walls are at most +2 and that it's rare for those groups to contain a boss, normally it's 1-2 lts and the rest minions.
It's a damn sight easier to solo than a boss farm as is behemoth farming or Nemesis farming.
Yet we only here complaints about the AE farming which has significantly more risk to less reward ratio than any of the above infact the above. In a 20 minute roman wall farm I normally walk away with 3 rare magic salvage, a couple of recipes, some of which may or may not sell for lots of inf and the chance for a purple recipe drop, which can't be gotten any other way than playing non-AE content. In one AE map the most you can get is 1500 tickets, which is enough to roll 2 rare salvage and a couple of bronze recipes.
I think the issue is not unbalanced risk vs. reward.
Architect Entertainment is a tool that let's you design your own missions. Players, as the mission designers, have some degree of freedom in changing the Re/Ri (I'll abbreviate Reward as 'Re' and Risk as 'Ri') ratio. They do this by increasing or decreased the Ri variable, and that affects the Re value.
I think, implicitly, the anti-farmers think there should be a limit to how much you can increase Re by increasing Ri. And the Ri value of what AE takes is not enough for the Re value it is giving.
What they don't seem to realize that farmers, regardless of being in AE or not, always try to find the most efficient balance between Re and Ri.
The problem of the anti-farmer community, from what I see, is...
Since farmers can now control their Ri/Re equation, then that means they're throwing it off balance. And this is the key part.
Farmers are very limited in how much they can manipulate the Re/Ri equation. They can never throw it off balance. They can make it efficient, like they always do, inside, or outside of AE.
And farmers are simply defending their own right to farm. They seem to be doing this by saying it is their right to not only find the efficient point in the Re/Ri equation, but now that AE is letting them manipulate the actual equation, they are allowed to do so. And I agree with this view.
Sadly, it seems the anti-farmer community think manipulating this equation in any way, shape, or form, would be considered cheating, exploiting, and disrespecting the game mechanics. And they are forgetting that the developers of this game allowed players to manipulate this equation ON PURPOSE to the limited degree that it is manipulatable right now.
I do not want to dig through a bunch of broken links to try and dig up the developer posts that stated one purpose of Architect Entertainment was to give players tools to challenge themselves, their characters, and their playing skills.
I need to state that I am not generalizing. I do know there are many pro-farmers and anti-farmers who oppose one, if not more of those points. I'm just stating the observation I stumbled upon after reading Dr Mechano's post. I could be wrong. I could be very wrong. -
Quote:Nah. I'm an innocent, honest person. I wanna work for my dots!Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
Well, you can always farm for your dots. I hear that's quite popular.
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Quote:Bit I want MOAR DOTS!Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
It looks like one for every hundred.
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Quote:The developers have explicitly stated that one of AE's goals was to create an alternative way to level from 1 to 50. Pay attention to the game you're arguing over.Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
My opinions is always changing. I am in both favor and against AE. What I am fully against is the people (AE-N00bs and exploiters) that use AE as a leveling tool and using its easily accessible exchange. I also have issues with people that claim AE/MA is an alternative leveling tool...since when did the devs say that, I got the impression that the devs made this so the imaginative and creative playerbase can express their creativity?
And if your opinion is always changing, stop asking people to agree with it and present it as an opinion. Not a fact.
I have no idea how that analogy works the way you put it.Quote:Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
The PL/Farm issue is like blaming guns for the death of people.
And that would solve the issue of AE farm arcs by...?!Quote:Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
I think that the XP should be removed or given to the authors to decide if they want their arcs to grant XP.
I haven't seen any AE farmer who farms an actual story arc.
Again. If I create a story for the purpose of farming, why on earth would I disable XP gain? Your logic makes no freakin' sense, and your solution is redundant and trivial.Quote:Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
I actually am a firm beliver of personal responsiblity, If I dont want my child to watch violent television I have two options:
1. Demand that they remove such material from broad media
2. Limit my lil angel what she can watch...on my terms.
By removing the XP from the arcs on the authors side we do two things:
1. those that do not want to have their arcs as Farm's/PL's PuGs can do so at their will.
2. It gives us the first line of defense against this issue.
Okay, I'm sorry to say this, but now you're not making any sense.Quote:Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
It gives us a solid solution..."Do it on your own terms" Since the Devs wont remove XP because the marketting dept is a bunch on heffers they can easily implement the option to disable xp from arcs on the authors request.
And it also does the things the same people are denying. Your point?Quote:Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
As to my other posts on other threads, AE has ruined the game in the fact that it DOES do the things that other people are clamining.
I used to solo on villain side before AE. I still do. Just because your experience has changed with the addition of AE, doesn't mean it has for everyone else. Speak for yourself.Quote:Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
I don't know everyone on this thread, I might have played with you on champion or on freedom or virtue but I know on champ redside that teams and limited...I often solo my villains. the experience from people on big servers is very diff than those on smaller servers. but I can say that what I have seen is not good.
If you have issues with AE and you think it has changed your gaming experience, either quit the game, or adapt. It's a video game, for cryin' out loud.
I never said that, and I have very rarely seen anyone who has. Stop generalizing. The negative is an opinion. And the positive is an opinion.Quote:Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
Everyone here says that the negative is an opinion and the positive is a fact...
What makes people angry and frustrated is when people want to enforce their opinions on others. People like Altoholic, who ignores people and calls them cheaters if they disagree with him. Which is fine. Whatever floats his boat.
LOLQuote:Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
Can you imagine if this issue was brought up at SDCC-09....can you see the Devs sweating..I would pay to see that. -
Quote:Huh.Originally Posted by Tech_Striker
It's Japanese slang for a pre-op male-to-female transexual.
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Quote:There is something wrong with that. If we're not gonna be coming for air...then how can we dunk our heads in the keg twice?Originally Posted by Alkaiser
Every time you see a futanari (not to be confused with a "new-half"), dunk your head in the keg and cry. Twice. And don't bother coming up for air.
And yah. "New Half"?! -
Quote:Um. There are actually forum games right now dedicated to boosting rep for no reason at all. I don't think it really matters. xDOriginally Posted by TonyV
I don't know; I assume that negative rep works just like positive rep, but to be honest, I don't know. The only reason why I know what I posted above was because I created a demo forum at the vBulletin site.
And I'll remind everyone again that those are the default settings. I don't know, in fact, what the exact levels and/or equation is, because it's configurable on the back end. My underlying assumption is that they didn't bother to tweak it, but I could be totally wrong. If I were them, one thing I would do is change the post count factor to something like a million so that it doesn't affect the rep level, because I wouldn't want people padding their post count to increase their rep power.
I'd offer to help test it, but really, I don't want to get caught up in rep padding, which that might be viewed as. ("Okay, give me positive reputation and I'll tell you how much it adds!"...) If someone else wants to, by all means, post what you find out.
It's just fluff... -
Quote:YAY SHINY!Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
Yah! They're SHINY!!!!
Let's go to Rep Mountain, Charlie! -
Quote:It gives you pretty little dot thingies! I like pretty little dot thingies!Originally Posted by Emberly
Very confused as to why anyone would care about negative (or positive) rep. What effect does it have on you?
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Quote:I'm really having a hard time understanding which side of the argument you belong to. Especially with your posts in all the other threads. In regards to disabling XP, I gave you a solution in another thread.Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
Saying that we should show the AE-Noobs the RC that the game has is not so easy...they are for most part fixed on parking themselves down in the AE buildings and ararely leaving. I have lead level 1-15 AE-Conversion run...kinda like the whole born again christian thing or the jehovah's whitness thing...but with RC. The responses I got from them is that the stories are nice but the XP is slow. I love the kalinda and Doc Creed arc and I love alot of the unlockable content in CoV ( BTW, have we ever gotten any sort of update on that system of NPCs? The Devs constantly add new badges but no new badge related contacts)
I had a spare hour this morning and I went to go try an arc, one about croatoa and rose, the daughter of adriana, I actually liked it and I actually found a better surprise...I didnt get XP for it! I may be the black sheep of the thread but I dont really like getting XP from the AE I like to use it to find stories.
Well while I was playing it solo on diff 5 I had a small idea...what is the Devs coded the AE to include a "Disable XP", If the Devs left the farming up to us? I am fine with using AE w/ or w/o XP, I dont care about tickets since I use the tickets to buy the content I want unlocked. but for XP I really think this could be a solution!
If everyone says that "no, you shouldnt remove XP"...they are not, they are leaving the option up to the authors. The marketing team can keep their pretty blue boxes of crap and the player base has control of farming and PL. -
Quote:Um. I'm not gonna begin asking "...what is wrong with you?". I'll just give you a helpful advice.Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
Ok, I am usually the first one to say that we should remove AE or limit the feature... but this morning I tried to do a mission, the one about croatoa and lil rose? Well I found that I did not get any XP for it, I was so happy to just do missions in croatoa and croatoa themes that I didnt care about the XP...why do I have to ge XP for running a simulation again its like earning driving credit towards your drivers license by playing mario kart!
Everyone on the other anti-AE thread says that the devs intended this to be an alternative to leveling...but I thought the purpose of AE/MA was to have users craft stories?
What if the devs allowed us to decide whether we would get XP for not? If the devs coded option to allow XP and to disable XP for those missions?
Go to options and disable XP gain. It stops you from gaining any experiences unless you turn it back off.
Enjoy! -
Quote:Interesting. What about negative rep?Originally Posted by TonyV
By the way, here are the default vBulletin settings. Whether or not the admins have changed them, I don't know:
Here is the default determination of how much rep you dole out:Code:Reputation Description ---------- ------------------------------------------------- < -99999 User is off the scale -99999 User is infamous around these parts -50 User can only hope to improve -10 User has a little shameless behaviour in the past 0 User is an unknown quantity at this point 10 User is on a distinguished road 50 User will become famous soon enough 150 User has a spectacular aura about 250 User is a jewel in the rough 350 User is just really nice 450 User is a glorious beacon of light 550 User is a name known to all 650 User is a splendid one to behold 1000 User has much to be proud of 1500 User has a brilliant future 2000 User has a reputation beyond repute
1 + (years registered) + (posts / 1000) + (reputation / 100)
It's integer division, so all remainders are tossed. So I've been a member now for four whole years, my post count is 4577, and my reputation is 215. Each time I give someone positive reputation (and if they haven't changed the defaults), I'm actually giving them:
1 + (4) + (4577 / 1000) + (215 / 100) =
1 + 4 + 4 + 2 = 11 reputation -
I'm still unclear on how the rep system works. I've seen like, someone, single-handedly, bumping my rep up by 15 points or something, and some of them bumped it up only by 1 point.
I'm assuming the more rep you have, the more rep points you give out with each rep'ing.
Is that correct?! -
Quote:Welcome to the internet!Originally Posted by Lucretia_MacEvil
It seems like calm forum discussions on this subject are few and far between.
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Quote:Same. People who SHOULD respond to MacEvil's posts are the ones ignoring it.Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
Just so ya know, you're not being ignored. I've read your posts. I just wouldn't have had much of a response to them beyond, "sound advice".
I used to offer suggestions along the lines of what you've been saying, but it just seemed to engender more hostility... so I stopped. -
Quote:Nope. But I also refuse to accept Level 54 Boss maps are easier than wall-farming, demon-farming, or Nemesis-farming.Originally Posted by EvaDestruction
They wipe on any mission that requires a modicum of competence. If you think regular PvE is too easy, try it playing a squishy on some PuGs. It's hilarious.
That is correct. I try help new players too.Quote:Originally Posted by EvaDestruction
Nope, doesn't make you a bad person. I kick people who "lol" at the fact that they don't know what half their powers do because they made the toon yesterday and sat in AE the whole time from my regular, non-farm teams.
Of course if the guy is legitimately asking stuff like "what does power X do? Is it good? Should I take it?" because he's just new to the game, or to the AT, he's a newbie, not a noob, and he can join my team. I feel it's an important distinction. One should be encouraged to improve, the other is not interested in improving.
I have been monitoring the AE Doom Threads EXTENSIVELY. I'm just that lifeless.Quote:Originally Posted by EvaDestruction
And some members of the farmer community are constantly coming up with new ways to say "it's my $15 a month, the devs can't tell me how to play." We have had threads in defense of Meow farms, mito farms, people getting ticked off that their blatant farm missions are getting banned (despite developer warnings that this could happen), and now comparing missions which are specifically designed to MAXIMIZE REWARDS to Arcanaville's Scrapper Challenge, which is specifically designed to TEST YOUR BUILD.
And no where have I ever seen a pro-farmer imply "it's my $15/month, the DEVELOPERS can't tell me how to play".
If someone did say that, then they're just being stupid, in my opinion. Here's what I'm supporting:
Quote:It is my $15/month, and as long as I'm not breaking any rules or actively disturbing a majority, no player can tell me how to play the game. If I'm doing something wrong, report me. Leave it to the developers to deal with the issue. But don't try to lecture me on what I should or should not do. -
Quote:No. Yes. No. And no.Originally Posted by Miss_DeStalker
1. Capped the XP to the same or as less as 'normal' missions,
2. Removed auto SK,
3. Limited the spawn sizes and amount of bosses per map?
4. Finally, Made maps only available to zones of that lvl?
Would be interesting to hear you answers on this!
Thanks
Capping XP, as discussed feverishly by everyone would be a bad idea as it would not only fix any "problems" with AE right now, but it would also lower incentive to play genuine arcs for casual players who want leveling AND content.
I see no issues with removing the auto-SK system we have now.
Limiting spawn size would limit player creativity. We don't want that.
I don't see how the last point would change the AE experience much. So. Meh.
*grabs a bucket of popcorn*
And now we watch this thread turn into a dead-horse festival!
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Might as well just change the rules to:
"If you see a character, drink up!" -
Quote:You're correct. Most farming teams are the PuGs who end up with a team wipe-out on the first group in a Maniac Slammer farm.Originally Posted by EvaDestruction
I guess people missed the point....
My "optimized team" consisted of me. Solo. Since people who have gotten good at optimizing rewards all have their favorite team configuration for doing it, I figured I would use the team configuration that routinely nets me the highest rewards: solo. The people I tend to team with aren't all about optimizing rewards. Furthermore, I don't consider myself to have uber 1337 skillz, or an optimum build, or bazillions of inf to burn. I'm not going to be soloing 8-man spawns anytime soon.
You keep saying "most" farming teams. As if the people who discover the best "rewards/risk and time spent" ratios belong to the masses that make up "most" farming teams. As if the people who regularly successfully complete these missions belong to "most."
"Most" farming teams (the kind who stand around yelling for a healer, have a bunch of useless lowbies and doorsitters, and people who don't know what half their powers do) would get slaughtered doing regular content on Invincible too. People who drag these n00bs (yes I said it. N00bs. Defined as people who don't know how to play at a level of reasonable competence and have no intention of trying to learn.) on their "challenge" missions are contributing to the problem.
Isn't that enough of a risk vs. reward ratio to you?
Personally, I don't let these "noobs" you speak of on my farm teams. Does that make me a bad person? Does that make me an elitist? No. I just don't find their play style compatible with mine. In fact, I refuse to call them "noobs" like you did.
The problem is, as someone mentioned in another thread, most of the members of the anti-farmer community generalize their arguments too much. They take a big, wide brush and paint everyone in their path with it. And that's what makes 'us' so stubborn on our arguments.
Mind you, I'm not a member of the pro-farming side of the debate. I find farming incredibly boring at times. At other times, I find it fun. Call me weird. But that's how I am. I'm merely stating that people should be allowed to enjoy the game they way they want to, as long as they are not breaking the rules and disturbing others.
From my point of view, it appears that the pro-farmers are the ones constantly having to put up with the anti-farmers trying to impose and enforce their ideals on them. And for that, I defend their point.
You're an example of the type of people I'm talking about. -
Hyperstrike. Thank you. That is all I have to say.
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Quote:We're sorry the missions wasn't a challenge to you and your team. You must be one of those players who have descended from the heavens with their 1337 skills. So. Again, sorry if you found it boring. I still don't.Originally Posted by EvaDestruction
Oh, we need a VARIETY of teams now. I guess part of the challenge is dealing with gimped players who have never actually played their characters, sidekicked lowbies, and door-sitters?
I am sure that hardcore far... *ahem* CHALLENGE MISSION teams are always filled with sub-optimal characters for the task in question. Nary a Granite, Kinetic or Rad in sight, nosiree.
So going with the spirit of choosing an optimal team, I took my optimal team (me) into a level 54 boss farm, and discovered I can in fact survive it, on Unyielding, and eventually kill the things too. And I wasn't even 50.
They hit hard do they? No. Maniac Slammers do not hit hard. Chief Soldiers hit hard. Rualruu Brutes hit hard. Malta Gunslingers hit hard.
And why the **** is it always that same ****ing map???
Why? That's none of your business.
Why is always the same map? Efficiency.
Apparently being efficient in a game is the same thing as being an exploitive farmer.
Edit: Oh, and by the way, challenge is not limited to just being able to survive. The challenge is being able to survive while keeping the rewards per time spent high. -
...I -wish- I could afford -that- much alcohol.
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Yep.
I came here to start a new thread about this, and stumbled across this one. I'm having the same issue. -
Quote:That's because, from what I've seen, most of the members of the anti-AE group have a very "elitist" reaction to things. I'm not generalizing. I've seen lots of anti-AE members who bring very sound, logical solutions and arguments to the table.Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
From what I've seen, both on these forums and in the game, the anti-MA sentiment, aside from oft spreading misinformation, is frequently surly and vicious. I'd rather not see that drown out opposing viewpoints, lest the false impression be given that that's the dominant perspective.
But I've also seen lots of people whose arguments basically go like:
1. I'm a veteran of this game.
2. In the old days, we didn't level like this.
3. New players aren't experiencing the same game we experienced.
4. Thus, AE is ruining the game.
I think these people are taking their veteran badge status way too seriously.