Bright Shadow
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Quote:You have to specify failure from a perspective.Originally Posted by Leandro
I can, because it reduces success/failure to a popularity contest.
Putting PvP aside, the majority of players aren't building supergroup bases; that doesn't make bases a failure the ones building bases certainly enjoy the activity. The majority of players don't flashback to missions a lot; that doesn't make Ourorobos a failure, people wanted Flashback for years. The majority of players don't play in the Shadow Shard (a ton of players don't even know it exists); that doesn't make the Shadow Shard a failure, it has great scenery, a few nice Task Forces (Dr. Q aside) and the Storm Palace is a great place to hunt. Heck, there are more heroes than villains, does that mean COV is a failure?
Just because a feature doesn't appeal to everybody that doesn't make it a failure. I am GLAD that AE was nerfed to the point where people are honestly trying to make missions with it; it could use a bit of tweaking upwards, but I don't WANT it to go back to the levels of 'popularity' it had, where the only thing happening in the AE buildings was farming. It ruined an otherwise great tool.
From a cost/benefit analysis and point of view, AE was a failure. Ourboros did take 100% of an issue, and even delay it. SG bases came along with City of Villains, and they did not cost as much as AE did.
AE took up an entire Issue. AE delayed an Issue. AE gave birth to Issue 15, which was a very controversial Issue. Then we got the "AE Crisis" once it was released. And then it was obliterated by almost completely making its rewards worthless to many players (when compared to risks involved), and now it's one of the unpopular features of the game, to say the least.
Did Ouroboros cause that much mess? Did SG bases cause that much mess? No.
So no. The success of a feature is not a popularity contest, unless you consider it from a business stand point, and consider the costs.
I apologize if I did not make my perspective clear in my earlier post. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Leandro
Someone is writing the new arcs I play. A lot of someones, in fact. So the AE is not the complete ghost town that some people are painting. I have no problem with it being a minority; so is PvP. Yes, the AE could use some attention, but calling it "the second worst failure in the game" is a massive exaggeration at best.I think I actually read someone in this thread who made AE arcs complain about AE. Something along the lines of "Why should I, who make legit arcs, have the rewards of my arcs be reduced to the point that no one would play them"?Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
I don't think a lot of people who actually PvP would have a problem characterizing PvP as the top-ranked failed feature in the game.
This is not a direct quote. I'm just paraphrasing a post I saw. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
Then it doesn't matter what the **** the most efficient way to level is, you're going to do it and you're going to do it because it's fun. People like you are the exact opposite of the kind of people that should be worried about, because you gravitate towards quantifying a point of efficiency. No matter what's introduced, you'll do what's best for the thing you choose to do, so really, you're a superfluous concern at best.
So yeah, I guess, Everyone Else's Potential Fun > Your Inevitable Fun.Quote:Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
So, his fun < your fun?Did I say leveling was my definition of fun? Stop pointing fingers.Quote:Originally Posted by brophog02
Unless we're talking about power leveling, or some other leveling method that clearly needs to exceed the base leveling speed of AE missions approved under the changes.
But we're clearly not talking about those things in this thread. Nope. Nope. Nope.
Either I'm missing the point of argument, or you are.
From what I understand, the argument is on whether or not anyone uses AE anymore. Again, from what I've been reading, one side of the argument says "Yes. There is nothing wrong with AE; and it's still fun." and the other side says "No. There is something wrong with AE because such and such; and it's not fun anymore."
Furthermore, it appears that people in the "No" category have a common reason for which they believe AE is deserted:
It providers lower reward compared to the risk relative to regular content. And they (and me) believe that the reduction of rewards in AE relative to the risk involved, reduces the general amount of fun, if fun were to be a quantified concept.
We're not talking about my fun, or your fun. We're not talking about powerleveling. We're not talking about cheating. These are the exact issues that happened in threads regarding AE during the period I'd like to call "AE crisis".
And let's get something out of the way: I haven't actually played and leveled in this game for over a month now, and I really did not, still don't, and will never care much about AE. So no, I'm not an efficiency expert. However, when I look at the MAJORITY of players, I can understand why AE has lost its charm for them, and all I did was try to justify it.
When you design a video game, or a video game feature, it is a known fact that you cannot please everyone. But you need to know your audience, and satisfy the majority of those people for maximum profit, both money-wise and customer-satisfaction-wise.
Look at AE, as it stands. Can you say that the majority of players are satisfied with it?
If you answer yes, then I have nothing to argue with you. And by 'you', I'm not pointing fingers to anyone in particular. Clearly your opinions, sources, and facts, differ from mine, and there is no room for further discussion. We'll have to agree to disagree.
If you answer no, then you're seeing the issue from my point of you. All I have been, still am, and will continue to say (until there is a change in AE system for the better), is that AE, for all intents and purposes, was a failed promise.
I'm not saying there is anything WRONG with that. Not every game is perfect. I enjoy many other parts of the game that don't have anything to do with AE, as do many other players. And from my observations, I think that's the majority of players.
And no, that does not mean Majority of Players' Fun > Your Fun. What I am saying is this:
Majority of Players Having Fun with a Feature X => Feature X = Success
Majority of Players NOT Having Fun with a Feature X => Feature X = Failure
I really can't break it down further for you guys. And this is my opinion. Feel free to disagree, as I'm certain you will, as you tend read between my lines and extract stuff I never said. -
Quote:Be honest with yourself. What percentage of the player base plays the game like you?Originally Posted by Leandro
I strongly disagree. Some of the most fun I've had on this game has been due to the AE. I am mostly a soloist and I'm story focused. Fast leveling means nothing to me. Heck, I played one of my characters in perma debt during i4 to try to catch every possible story arc on the way up. I'm here for good stories, and AE gives me plenty of that.
There are always exceptions and minorities. It's the big picture we should be concerned about. -
Quote:I agree with this. And no, this doesn't mean "that the game should cater to herd mentality". However it does mean that a feature that consumed so many resources to gather so many audience, for all intents and purposes, failed, from a usability perspective.Originally Posted by UberGuy
This is misleading. There's no reason to compare "casual play" in the AE with "decent play" outside it. That's apples and oranges. We can keep this apples and apples.
If you play story driven content in the AE you are quite likely to progress more slowly compared to other content with the same players (or solo).
That's a big disincentive to a lot of players. It is so because of a social reinforcement loop that exists around such behaviors. People who are deeply concerned about leveling speed avoid the AE and claim it sucks. People who are mildly concerned about leveling speed tend to avoid it in part because they know the deeply concerned people avoid it studiously. The people who just want a team end up avoiding it because the other two groups do. The people who really want to AE may end up avoiding it because the other three groups do.
In the end, those reinforcing feedback effects force a rather binary transition, swinging the populace from "nearly everyone does it" to "almost no one does it" as you cross the XP equivalence point with canon missions.
Alright, let's argue semantics.Quote:Originally Posted by brophog02
You referenced a quote on leveling. ((This board seriously needs nested quotes to function properly.))
The only two options that you quoted were leveling and story telling. Therefore, unless you give another option, the "promise of multiple things" reads as those two. You need to be MUCH more specific in what they "promised" to keep it from reading as it did. ((If you have a fault here then you need to make things more clear.))
Leveling is still possible in AE, therefore the thing taken away is power-leveling. Therefore, the quote reads as a promise of power-leveling.
You said POWERleveling. Not leveling. I never said POWERleveling, neither did anyone else. And POWERleveling is not the same as leveling.
When I'm referring to leveling, I'm referring to leveling at normal pace. I'm refering to foes that give 1.0 relative experience when compared to foes you fought outside of AE. I'm referring to global leveling. By your argument, you'd be completely okay if they removed all kill XP from all kills in the missions in AE and relaced all the rewards with a single point of experience at the end of the mission? You'd still be leveling, wouldn't you?!
Yes. You -can- level with AE at its current status. But as far as the generally accepted rate of leveling is concerned, AE is not a VIABLE option for leveling. It is a much slower, toned down version of leveling.
And again, I have to note, I'm not in favour of any side. I'm not saying AE is bad or good at its current state. There were many, more efficient solutions that could be implemented to solve the AE issues, and most of them would've required more resources than, I'm assuming, the developers were willing to sacrifice. So we get AE as it stands right now.
Arguing over this beaten, rotten, dead horse is just silly. -
Quote:I want to see a single quote in this thread that explicitly asks for AE to be a tool for powerleveling.Originally Posted by brophog02
I want to see the dev quote promising powerleveling in AE...........
I never said such a thing, neither did anyone else. What I am saying, however, is that AE was promised to be something more than a tool solely designed for story telling. AE had far higher potential. Sadly, it did not live up to its promise.
I've always said this, and I will say it again. AE was a great feature that was just developed poorly and released without much prediction.
And it's fair. Come on. Show me another MMORPG that allows user-created content with this level of freedom/power. It was the first time any MMORPG developer decided to take on this, and it's perfectly justified if their final product just wasn't flawless. -
Quote:And?Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
People who want to level have a gazillion options.
People who want to tell stories and make them available to the general game populace have one.
I think that is exactly why AE is so empty these days (relatively speaking, of course). I have no argument there. Why? Because AE went from a multi-purpose tool (as it was promised) to a single-purpose tool used for story-telling and pretty much nothing else, at least to me and a bunch of people I know.
I'm not saying that's good or bad, mind you. That's just how things went. -
Quote:Are we really gonna start talking about "My Fun > Your Fun" now?Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
Maximizing levels is not the point of game options. Maximizing fun is.
"Fun" is a relative concept. To some, "fun" is exactly that: Leveling. -
Quote:Then why is he complaining so boldy?Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
According to the OP, they didn't quit; they just RP'd out of the context of the game, and without an active account.
It's not like these changes happened over-night. Yah, Invul isn't as powerful as it USED to be before ED.
But really? Seriously? The OP is complaining about why Invul can no longer herd a 100 bosses in a map? If that is what the OP is complaining about, then here's my response: lulz.
If not, then I still don't see what he's complaining about. No character in this game NEEDS IOs to be powerful. As the developers have mentioned times and times again, they did not increase the difficulty of the game after introducing IOs. Cimerorans are designed specifically to excel at melee combat, and without the right STRATEGY, they can squash ANY character. Note how I used the word STRATEGY and not BUILD.
If you're (talking to the OP) complaining that the game is too challenging for you, then lower the difficulty. If you're complaining that the game is too challenging for you, and you do not wish to lower difficulty, and you do not wish to take advantage of a whole new dimension the game offers for the sake of having a more "1337" character, and you do not wish to change your strategy or your build, then the door is right there. It was nice meeting you!
Change happens. Adapt. Evolve. I don't understand why the concept of evolution is so hard to understand in these boards. -
I think the OP needs to take a chill pill.
Just so I can be clear (and cause I'm lazy to go read the entire thread), did the OP quit before ED? If so...oh boy. -
Quote:It'd be nice if they did lots of things.Originally Posted by Toony
It'd be nice if they released simpler versions of some of the booster stuff for free.
But there is something in this world called "money" and "resources", which tend to be party poopers for all the "nice" stuff. -
Quote:Yup. To me, it's driver-related as well.Originally Posted by Executive
I've had this issue for months now. For me, it's a driver issue. Using the Nvidia 185.85 drivers, CoH does NOT disable desktop composition, it stays in Aero mode, and alt-tab'ing and window focus work exactly like they should. Any newer driver up to the 195.55 I have now causes Windows to disable Desktop Composition, and the alt-tab issue to happen. Try rolling back to 185.85 and see what happens.
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I'm a fan of both ATs, personally (I'm a fan of any power set with ridiculous damage).
From personal experience, I believe Corruptors to be more "fun". When considering raw damage, Corruptors aren't nearly as powerful as Blasters (but much, much more powerful than Defenders). However, Corruptors tend to get cooler toys to play with. The buffs/debuffs from their secondary gives Corruptors added damage, which, in the long run, I believe makes them more powerful than Blasters. They do this by either out-living the Blaster, or by debuffing the crap out of the enemy, or by buffing themselves.
I actually have a Fire/Cold Corruptor that I've built for pure offense and survival. She doesn't have any of the Cold Domination Shields. With her, I can easily rival any generic Blasters out there, and she's just so much fun to play with! -
Quote:NO! DEVELOPERS ARE ONLY THERE TO MAKE ME VIDEO GAMES CAUSE I PAY THEM $15/MONTH!Originally Posted by Dispari
Do they really need a reason besides it being a holiday? Devs have lives too you know.
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I usually don't care much about the lore. I do know enough of it to help me enjoy the game's story. But I don't go around digging it.
That being said, even -I- noticed the incredible "lightness" of the story behind VEATs. I think they have a lot of room for some epic stories, and yet there is so little pure, VEAT-related story arcs. -
I agree with the pistols. But I kindda like the new jump for claws. It really looks like you're diving onto your prey to shred him into pieces!
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I'm not sure if the original post is a warning, an act for stealing attention, or an act of revenge. I really can't tell...
In any case...
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I actually tried to imagine what my characters would look like with all the SOs literally attached to them. And all the "Invention" origin enhancements being an abomination of the salvages they were made of and attached to them as well.
It was not a pretty picture... -
Quote:Actually, Natural has two meanings in this game, at least to me:Originally Posted by Dispari
All the SOs for natural are "training." They may be overly specific, like how the gadget DOs have you strapping grenades to your sword, but the point is you get better by training. If you don't just get really good with your powers through instant gratification granted by magic, science, technology, or mutation, how else do you get better at your powers than by training and practicing?
What else would a Peacebringer do to get better attuned with their abilities other than train and practice with them? Maybe they aren't running drills with Lieutenant Dan or training as a pupil under Jackie Chan, but you don't become strong and fast without one of those origins doing something to you.
Natural says to me that "I didn't get handed my powers; I had to work for them." Maybe you can pick up a gun and be lethal, same as a Peacebringer can naturally throw some energy around. But to be truly good at it, you have to TRAIN.
1. I did not get handed any supernatural powers. I had to work with what I had to gain my far-above-average skills.
2. I did not get handed any "supernatural" powers; since this stuff is considered natural in where I come from (i.e. an alien with relatively supernatural powers, like a Peacebringer, or even Rikti).
Don't mind me if this reply is irrelevant to the discussion. I just read Dispari's post and responded! -
Quote:You pulled the words right out of my mouth!Originally Posted by Zombie Man
And this is why we players need to put up a united front: Rather than lobby for our own personal pieces and peeves, we should all be asking for all costume pieces to be revamped so they all have the same set of textures (such as cloth, shiny cloth, worn metal, polished metal, reflective, matte leather, shiny leather, etc...) in the same resolution. That would do a hundred times more good for the costuming than any new free costume set.
And to be fair to people who actually LIKE some of the body-paint legacy pieces, I think it would be best to keep them BOTH. Never remove options. Just add new options! -
Quote:And hence why the best option would be to create better quality pieces on TOP of the old ones. We could have "Legacy Sport" top and then "Sport" top!Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
On the other hand, because they don't look like clothes, I can actually mix and match them a lot better, as well as just making wild designs with them. I keep hearing people complain about Tops with Skin, but frankly, I've used most of the options EXCEPT Metal, the corset and and the Wedding pack garments. I mean, I might have used them here or there to simulate real clothes, but they don't exactly go well with each other. An Angelic Plus top pretty much only goes with an Angelic Plus bottom or a pair of pants. It doesn't go with the hot pants, for instance, or the Savage bottom.
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I don't agree with the OP that we haven't got any new free costume pieces in one/two years. We did get a lot of new pieces.
However, what I'm a little disappointed about that developers seem to have absolutely no intention of upgrading the old pieces. Given the current graphics, and the recent shiny costumes they give us, the old pieces are just terrible compared to the new ones!
Almost 90% of options under "Tops with Skin" for females look like body paint. The only ones that don't are the ones that we got very recently.
For this reason, we're very limited on how much we can mix-and-match new costume pieces with the old ones. At least I know I am.
Personally, I don't think we need new costume pieces. I think costume bits needs to get some new polish. And while you're at it, LET ME HAVE TAILS WITH BELTS!
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Am I the only one unable to find that costume piece posted in the screenshot? You know, the one with two LARGE fangs from the poking out from below? It looks rather cool, but I can't find it...
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Weee! Thanks BAB! I lurv you! -
Oh come ON!!!!
I bought it right away because of my OCD on this booster system. And then I went to check out the costume pieces.
The first thing I noticed where the boots and I was like "Boy, these would look GREAT under Flared Pants as an alternative to the crappy Sneakers we have in-game right now!"
Then I go to actually check that hypothesis, and guess what!
We're not allowed to have 'em under pants!!!
COME ON!!!!!
Please, guys! Please please please please please, can we PLEASE have them enabled under pants as well?!