BrandX
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Quote:Well I knew that :POriginally Posted by TRTerror
fiery melee doesnt get blaze -
Quote:I do more PvEing than PvPing as well.Originally Posted by Sarrate
Ahah! That makes a lot of sense.
I personally much prefer RttC (since I do more PvEing than PvP), but your reasoning makes sense. Curiosity sated, thanks! Still, for those times I feel like PvPing, this (or having the option to decide which at creation) would make me happy.
RTTC is better of course, not denying that. -
This thread has now made me laugh.
All this talk about "let the player choose if it fits the concept"
Which I'm not against Scrappers having a super strength set, like I said, I just think the scrapper version shouldn't look like you have the strength of The Hulk.
But that aside..."let us decide if it fits the concept", when some of the players saying that, are also against letting Scrappers get a dual pistol/gun fu set. o.O
Can't I decide if a gun fu set fits my concept of a scrapper (and it does
)?
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Quote:Nothing is really known about the pistol set yet, and what has been said could easily change from now, till live.Originally Posted by Negate
Dispari I thought Pistols had different Ammo you can switch to? Like Acid rounds or something? Powerboost would surely enhance that.
It's been mentioned you can choose what type of ammo you use when you make the DP user.
But there's been talk about a change ammo power as well.
So, it's still wait and see. -
Quote:Energy Melee.Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Citation needed. I also fail to see how you got to there from Liquid's post.
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Quote:You'd be one of the few to play a set that is considered bottom of the barrel. Thusly the exception to the rule.Originally Posted by Liquid
I do want the name "Super Strength". I know, it's nit-picky. But I'd like it.
Also, I want the feel of the set. I want the screen shaking on the hits, the spherical shockwave VFX, and the "POW" and "BOOM" sound effects. I also think Foot Stomp's radius is an important part of that feel-- I'll take a reduction in damage and/or lower chance for KD, but I want the radius because it just wouldn't feel the same to stomp the ground, have the screen shake, and only have it affect the people standing right next to you.
I don't need double stacked Rage, or any other aspects that one might consider to be overpowered on a Scrapper.
I want Super Strength Scrappers not because I think it would perform better than other Scrapper sets, but because I want the superhuman strength concept, delivered as well as the set is for other ATs, on a Hero whose primary role is dealing damage. I wanted Super Strength Scrappers back in CoH Beta, when Super Strength was one of the worst Melee sets (when KoB did irrelevant damage, Rage stunned you for the crash, and Foot Stomp was KB instead of KD). So, it's not about the effectiveness.
I'm looking forward to Hero Brutes, but I'd also like Super Strength Scrappers because while Brutes are really exciting, the non-stop pace Fury inspires can be a little tiring. I'd like to have the option of a Scrap (from Dynamo 5) type hero who has Super Strength as her big thing, and toughness being second, without the need to build power up over time. -
Quote:I however feel the need to explain it to the poster.Originally Posted by Leo_G
/facepalm
....
....that was like, reflex. Seriously, I was sitting here resting my chin on my arm and scrolling down. When I read that, my chin slipped and my forehead went into my palm...I didn't even *mean* to, it just happened.
Stalkers aren't hit and run anymore.
The only time my stalker hides in missions anymore, is when I happen to reneter hide when running to the next mob, or when I use Placate.
Stalkers aren't hit and run anymore.
That said, I never played that way before the buffs to Stalkers. :P I played my Stalker the same was as they are setup to be played now. Only, now it's even better! -
Quote:He was saying if a rifle good 600 meters and a pistol goes 150 meters...then thusly in game, the AR that goes 80ft, would then mean the DP would go 20 ft.Originally Posted by Dispari
A meter is about one yard. A yard is three feet. 200 meters is 200 yards. Which is about 600 feet. You're doing the math backward.
Putting numbers...but I think you get the point.
As to Bellen...my hope...a Martial Arts Dual Pistol hybrid set for Dominators, and then a new AT that allows Assault/Defense sets. -
Quote:I'm hoping DP has the first ever passive AIM power. Yes, it would be weaker than AIM. But it'd always be on. Not to mention, it'd be totally new!Originally Posted by Dispari
The one thing I want is a ranged attack that uses Follow Up mechanics. It'd replace Aim in the set so be low power, offering a damage boost of about 23.5%. But it'd have a 12s recharge with a 10s duration, and encourage a rapid-fire DPS style of blasting rather than the typical burst style that all other ranged sets are designed around.
Melee sets have a lot of variety in their damage boost powers (BU, FU, Rage, Soul Drain, along with AAO and FE). I'd like to see some of that wander over to the fairly standardized ranged sets and give us some variety. I'm secretly hoping that DP will have a power like this.
A toggle would be my next idea. -
Quote:I never saw this great DPS from Energy Melee.Originally Posted by UberGuy
Which does zero damage to the user, of course...
And now that it's not anymore, we can execute that exact same argument with a plethora of other powers. Are you the arbiter of what range outside the bell curve something is allowed to exist in? Who dictates that DPA something that's not allowed to have a 90% outlier? What's the maximum outlier on AoE DPA? On AoE DPS? On solo XP/hour? On combination of mez capability and self-mitigation? Damage dealing and self-mitigation?
I'm sorry, you're not disproving my point.
Yes, of course, no one took the set because it combined awesome DPS with powerful stuns and an exotic damage type. No, I think you overstate this argument. Yes, if it had no stuns and dealt pure smashing damage I could agree ET would have wholly defined the set, but that's not the case, and thus I say your assertion here is simply false.
I did see great burst damage. But where was this awesome DPS? -
Quote:If the devs do infact balance the game around SOs, and not IOs...Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
So....let me see if I get this right;
It's ok to change a power that makes it so that people without IOs are penalised more for using it?
I've already posted my two pennies, but that made me raise an eyebrow.
Then any changes to EM would be, because of how it's used with SOs.
I was just saying, that if they had gone with a bigger -HP route with ET, instead of the animation change, then people could likely make it so the -HP isnt as bad. -
Quote:My concept is more of a time manipulator...able to see in bullet time (thusly accurate, and with the right IOs/powers...very agile).Originally Posted by Dispari
Psychic/telekinetic gunslinger sounds like a cool concept.
though I had thought of a psychic/telekinetic gunslinger, but then I'd probably be asking for "just use my fingers animations" for DP. :P -
Quote:Originally Posted by Dispari
Personally, since I imagine Pistols will be as cool to play as it was to watch, I tried to come up with a set combination that requires little work from me so that I can just focus on shooting guys. I tried to look for combos that won't require me to repeatedly hit powers in combat, so things like Kinetics or Empathy are totally out.
Dark Miasma is a semi-busy set. You'll be dropping Tar Patch and seeking targets to put Darkest Night on. You'll also be holding enemies and fearing groups of foes between spamming heals fairly often and using the occasional rez. It's not as in-combat heavy as some other combinations, but it will have you redrawing for heals and has ~4 combat-start powers that detract from your gunslinging time.
Your Fire Manipulation secondary sounds like a much better idea. You'll only be redrawing for Build Up and Consume (if low on end), and have no powers that you need to open with. All the other powers in the secondary are melee, so you won't have to switch between those and your pistols. If you do hop in melee, you can just switch to fire for the duration and not have to redraw back and forth. For bonus points, your bullets can be incendiary or even cryo or toxic so your whole toon can take advantage of high damage and fairly unresisted damage types.
Personally, I'm going Dual Pistols/Traps. I have one power I have to upkeep which can be done outside of combat, and then two powers that need to be done inside of combat (Poison and Mortar). Seekers are done as an alpha before combat starts, and everything else can be done outside of combat. All the powers are on long recharges so I won't be using more than 2-3 powers tops when I enter combat, unless it's a particularly long AV fight. In which case I have a big -regen debuff to contribute with.
My friends are doing Dual Pistols/Devices for largely the same reason. No in-combat power taking away from their shoot-em-up time.
Right now I'm going more towards DP/Mental.
But it fits my concept really well, for the ability to slow down an opponents movement/attacks...grab tactics...the way my toons powers work is all right there.
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Quote:Well, that's simple really.Originally Posted by Sarrate
Excuse the thread tangent, but you're the first person I've ever heard of say that. May I ask why you wish Scrappers had Recon instead of RttC?
I like to occaissionally go into PvP zones/arena. WP is my favorite set of all defense sets. Recon would be of more use to me in PvP, than RTTC (lack of foes in melee range...the fact that it gets detoggled).
If it meant having to use Recon in PvE, I could manage just fine.
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Quote:You can easily say the +resist and +defense of the set is just character regenerating more, as well.Originally Posted by _Chin_
Was looking more towards a constant stream of HP, rather than all of a sudden giving a boost to HP.....so looks like its gunna be Willpower, which was my first choice anyway.
Cheers. -
Quote:The way Super Strength plays out in game, just never seemed like a scrapper style of super strength to me.Originally Posted by Jabbrwock
Well, that picture isn't actually that bad - it works out to about 3% more damage for Scrapper SS than Brute SS on the base numbers. The trouble comes when you figure in crits and double stacked Rage.
That said, I don't see any problem that couldn't be solved with a simple tone-down of Scrapper Rage to not be 100% damage. 80% damage buff from Scrapper Rage might actually be too weak unless double stacked - the set is awfully lame without Rage, after all.
At any rate, it's not an obviously unsolvable problem, and to me, the set doesn't seem particularly non-Scrapperish. Then again, I've never really had much respect for barring sets from archetypes for thematic reasons. Theme is what you make of it.
Handclap, Hurl and Footstomp specifically. Spiderman (who to me is the comic book version of a scrapper with super strength)...doesn't clap his hands together to knock people down. He doesn't stomp his foot to cause earthquakes. Ect...ect...
Which is what the current Super Strength set is.
Now...if they changed it around a bit on animations and ported...I could possibly see it better.
Instead of ripping a chunk of concrete out of the ground, maybe a VW bug just appears and they toss it. See. It's not the weight of the concrete (it's just the animation).
*shrug* Just doesn't seem Scrapper like to me.
*note* Never said I couldn't be wrong either. :P I've admitted already, the Energy Shields and Talasorian Shield have made me wrong about wanting a shield set. -
Quote:For the record, I never said SS would be overpowered on Scrappers. *just saying*Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
And that is why, just as with claws on brutes, I see zero issues with a straight port of SS to scrappers.
Let's not forget all those whining that a straight port of claws would be overpowered on brutes. Not only did brutes get claws... they got a BUFFED version of it.
Those stating SS would be OP on scrappers haven't done the math. -
Quote:*sigh* I think the point of my comment was missed.Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
As I've said, 'numbers' are part of the game (to claim it's the only reason for everyone is nonsense), but more importantly, it's how the set plays. I've played MA to 50, and I didn't enjoy the set. Maybe I'd like it more with the new animations, but overall it just felt clunky and kinda thrown together to me. Now maybe you'll jump in with, 'well you just want ss because of the numbers'. If that were the case, according to bills work-up, I'd still be better of with MA, since MA does better dps with it's best set-up. If people only wanted sets due to 'numbers' I wonder why tanks aren't pining for MA, lol. Hell, scrpper em would be higher by the 'numbers', but I'll pass on that crippled, sloth-like set too.
And again, in discussing the idea that SS would be overpowered on scrappers, I strongly disagree. Looking again at bills work, we see that scrap ss would indeed outdamage brute ss. And yes, that is due different at modifiers. But guess what - this is the one set that would seem to be working properly, because scrappers SHOULD be outdamaging brutes, since brutes have at modifiers that give them inherent survivability advantages from lvl 1-50 regardless of circumstances, yet most powersets allow brutes to obtain damage and survivability advantage in many situations.
Regardless of the brute scrapper debate (I don't feel the balance between the two at's is so ridiculously skewed as to require any changes, but to claim there is parity is nonsense and clearly brutes have clear advantages in more situations than scrappers do), despite ss being supposedly 'overpowered' on scrappers, it did not finish first in the dps showdown (9 set ups finished higher...). This reminds me of the debate that raged when they lowered the animation times on katana - people swore up and down that it would make katana ridiculously overpowered. I think if SS gets ported, as it should, we will see similar results.
I understand that people like to play the set with the best numbers.
People just kept saying, they wanted it for concept. I was merely saying, it wasn't purely for concept.
If they made all the animation options of Super Strength available to Martial Arts, and put Hurl in Body Mastery (thusly making the concept possible)...people would still say they want Super Strength (they just couldn't keep saying "for concept" then).
Next, going by Billz work-up...Scrapper Super Strength would not only give better ST DPS (by a few points), but have better AOE. -
Quote:Has someone compiled a list of Blasters DPS? Is Fire the best?Originally Posted by Microcosm
Well, if you're completely halting the GM's regen rate with drain psyche (perma), and I don't know if it does, then you could solo it just using brawl; it's a question of speed, really. Fire just has the most damage, though I'm not sure how sonic's debuffs would affect the set's damage levels.
I don't know myself...I know Fire Melee for instance isn't best ST DPS, but Blaster Primaries elude me. :/ -
Obviously part of the way to solo the GM is to use Drain Psyche for the -Regen, but that gets me curious...is Fire Blast the onlt Primary that can be paired with /MM to do it?
What about the other Primaries? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Sarrate
At any rate, there have been defensive set changes - for example, WP losing RttC in favor of Reconstruction.
I actually wish at times that my scrapper had Reconstruction instead of RTTC.
If I didn't hate Dual Blades so much on Stalkers, I'd have a DB/WP Stalker of her waiting to go rogue now. -
Quote:That was another thing I was okay with when they decided it was time to change EM. Have ET take a bigger chunk of health.Originally Posted by Fireheart
It seems, then, that the real issue with Energy Transfer is in defining the 'value' of the Hit-points trade. That self-damage mechanic throws off all calculations based on other factors. So, Energy Transfer cannot be 'normalized' by the usual DPE or DPA frameworks.
Worse, the 'value' of that self-damage can vary wildly, depending on AT, defensive Powerset, and even Build factors. Essentially the question of 'how many HPs do you have and how easily can you get them back?'
Yet the health-sacrifice is at the Core of ET's power... Tricky.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Would those with serious IO investment really notice it? No. But that's what IOs tend to do, cover power picks drawbacks/weaknesses. -
Quote:Hmmm...I personally would say the Blaster is squishier than a Dark Miasma user (-tohit debuffs, shadow fall, fear power, massive AOE Stun with a powerful -regen debuff = alot more survivability.).Originally Posted by sbrannon
Decisions, decisions. I have and idea for a toon when Going Rogue comes out but I'm torn as to what archtype to build. My idea is a girl who becomes posessed by the spirit of a long deceased gunslinging ancestor. If I go with a blaster, I'll make fire the secondary. If I go with a defender I'll make Dark Miasma the primary. If she's a corruptor, the DM will be the secondary. All have good point. The corruptor and defender's DM thematically fits my concept and Soul Mastery & Darkness Mastery would top off the build in Epic powers. But a blaster trying to use the powers for good but slowly losing that battle as she becomes a Vigilante is appealing. Let's not forget blaster Defiance either, which makes blasters just a tad less squishy the corr and def.
So I'm at an impasse. I can take the 4+ months until GR comes out and think more on this and depending on what benefits I can get for staying loyal as a corruptor will also help me decide. What do the rest of you think?
But while it's fun to think about, it's probably a good idea to just keep you thinking about it.
After all, things can change from now to when GR comes out. But I'd also go with the one that goes with the concept more (you said that's Dark Miasma...so now youd just have to wait till GR to decide...Corr or Def) -
I'd just like to add...having played Energy Melee to lvl 50 on a tank, and various levels on other ATs (including more tanks)...Energy Melee was only OPed in one area...
PVP.
PvE wise, EM was far from OPed. It was what it was a burst damage, single target set.
Could it get good DPS, yeah, at the cost of some serious survivabiliy (it requires that much +RCH).
Saddly, the set just seems very slow now. :/ For me at least. And that's all due to ET's new animation (though I'm willing to admit, I just might hate the new animation THAT MUCH, so it seems to be even longer than it really is).
Total Focus being a long animation never bother me before the ET change. I loved it. I still love the animation. But now...the set is really...bleh now and it's all because of the animation change.
TF loses a mag of stun *shrug* didnt phase me. For a set packed full of chances to stun, this really didn't bother me at all. They could of lowered it to mag 2, I wouldn't have cared. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Werner
I want it because it's very SMASH. I like smash. I use Rage, but frankly, I hate it. The crash drives me nuts, even if I know it improves my performance overall.
Now yes, in my case, if a ported Super Strength WAS numerically superior, I'd probably play one for that reason too. But even if you brought it over as a numerically INFERIOR set, I'd probably give it a whirl just to see if it was worth it for the fun factor, particularly if they replaced Rage, since I hate that power.
Yes, I know I'm a numbersraping powergamer. I'm also currently playing a Martial Arts/Fire Armor. Not everything is about having the best numbers.
So, am I lying? Are you really accusing people of that? You HAVE noticed that people have a great variety of interests and motivations, right? That we're not all the same?
Well my post was more in line with a previous post as well, which you either forgot (simple enough as my message was a reply to a reply of mine, or simply didn't read.
I had said earlier, that they could give all Super Strength animations to Martial Arts, so people can go the super strength concept route, and they'd still complain (this includes giving Scrapper access to the hurl power in one of the epics, I suggested Body).
According to BillZBubba's stickied thread, there's only a few point difference in DPS as well, between Scrapper SS (I'm assuming he put Rage to what Scrapper numbers says it would be, and not to what the devs might make it) and Scrapper MA.
Just give Martial Arts the following animations...
Thunder Kick = Sped up Jab
Storm Kick = Sped up Punch
Cobra Strike = Single Target Hand Clap stun
Focus Chi = Stay the same
Crane Kick = Could leave this the same (or possibly a new animation for a straight punch)
Warriors Challenge = Stays the same
Crippling Axe Kick = Slower Haymaker
Dragon's Tail = Sped up Foot stomp/Ground Punch
Eagle's Claw = Slightly slower Knockout Blow (though EC's alternate animation seems very super strengthy to me already).
If it's just about concept for Super Strength, that can easily be made possible with new animations for Martial Arts to choose from.
And now that I type this out, I kinda wish they would do this. All it would lack is Hurl. Which like I said could be put into an Epic (<.< I'd gladly give up CP for Hurl myself...or they could just add a 6th power).
And if they did this, all those saying they wanted SS for concept, would still say they want the Super Strength set for concept and really mean numbers.