BlueBattler

But our Val's origin has to do with science rather than magic. The spear transforms her using some kind of nannites.

And wouldn't you need a lot of water to operate a giant sized robot (Fake Nemesis) or even a walking boiler?

Forget the TSP report. If you see someone draining a 5 gallon water cooler at one sitting it's probably an automaton.

It's possible the Devs just lost track of their own lore. That's happened before.

Remember the whole "Hamidon as extradimensional entity" flap?

Alternatively, Praetorian Shalice might have been pulling the body-stealing schtick even earlier than we thought.

(Anyone else really prefer "Little Miss Mayhem" to "Mother Mayhem"? I sure do ...)

Paragon Wiki: (Scirocco's arc)

Haven't done Black Scorpion or Mako's arcs so I don't want to know how they end, but from those two you can see that even if you don't journey into the future Recluse's plan fails.

You're neglecting the fact that if Recluse's future comes to past he winds up being slain by the future version of the player who's doing the arc. True, the player character dies too-- in fact, the entire world is destroyed-- but if Recluse gets what he wants from Project Destiny he winds up destroying himself and the world.

We travel into the future to defeat Recluse after his victory over the Freedom Phalanx to get him to abandon his plans.

If we had done nothing to alter the timeline, then Recluse's plan would have STILL failed because he would have been dead along with the rest of the world.

Then in the Statesman TF his plan is to make himself the most powerful metahuman in the world ... and Ultra Powerful Recluse uses the power to enrich his physical abilities ... he becomes, tougher, stronger, harder to defeat.

And then his strategy is "pummel his enemies into paste."

That's not to say that it's not an effective strategy-- it's one that Doom used himself more than once-- but it's not exactly subtle.

Let's contrast that with a plan of Nemesis to explain what I mean.

*Spoilers for the RWZ Arcs to follow*

In RWZ, we find out that Nemesis created automaton doubles of the Freedom Phalanx and sicked them on the Rikti homeworld in order to lure them to Earth. If the Rikti had managed to defeat Earth, then Nemesis could have attacked them while they were weakened. If Earth had won, then he could have done the same thing.

Instead, the situation resulted in a stalemate.

At first, you might think that Nemesis has been foiled ... but then you discover his plan to upload his mind to the Rikti hive mind ... to in effect make an entire species over in his own image. Only at the very end does Nemesis show up to take a direct hand because your efforts are threatening to derail his grand scheme.

That's the sort of plan that a Lex Luthor would have tried. If Plan A doesn't work, use Plan B.

To be fair, Recluse's machinations in the Freedom Phalanx and Web of Arachnos novels were fairly complex and strategic, but what we experience in the game does not show him as being what you call a deep thinker.

The problem that I have with Recluse-- and even Nemesis to a lesser degree-- is that it's never really shown why ANYONE would follow them. Recluse rules by fear and naked power-- but his own philosophy suggests that anyone who became strong enough could overthrow him ... in fact, that's what destroys the world in the future-- the Player Character becomes such a formidable presence that he/she causes a civil war as half of Arachnos revolts and chooses to follow him over Recluse.

Nemesis has something of the same problem-- how does he manage to convince ANYONE that he's worth following? On the other hand, since he tends to be more subtle and deceptive than Recluse, he can actually trick people into doing what he wants.

In his later portrayals, Doom is established as having earned the loyalty as well as the fear of his subjects by doing things like providing them with national security, economic prosperity, and safety from crime. He's shown as having some loyalty to his people and is willing to fight on their behalfs.

Recluse has no real emotional attachement to Arachnos or the Rogue Islands that I can remember. He doesn't protect them from anything-- not even us villains-- and most of his people live in dire poverty. Why do people serve him?

When I write about the Rogue Islands in general or Recluse in particular, my rationale is that as a Mastermind Recluse has a sort of charismatic power. The force of his personality compels people to do things they wouldn't otherwise do, even when they are not in their own self interests.

Why are you assuming that Serafina wants a heroic Scirocco?

She's a genie. The reason that she helps the forces of good is that the heroic Scirocco's last wish was that she do so. We have no way of knowing what she would have done if he had not made that wish. (Though I have to admit if I were her I might be a little cheesed off that his last wish wasn't "I wish you no longer had to obey the commands of anyone" ...)

And remember the story of Job. "Good" can do some pretty nasty things sometimes.

Scirocco wanted fame and glory and to be loved and admired as a hero, so he stole the magic items. Serafina could not steal them back from him, but she could deny him the outcome he sought.

The fact that his curse has a negative outcome for society in general as well may be immaterial to her. In the traditional stories I've read, genies work to the benefit of their masters, not for society as a whole.

Which isn't to say that you're wrong, Fun. Just that I can see Serafina actually doing something like this.

Yeah, it would be cool, and now that you mention it I think they said he was the same age as ME ...

Nah.

Good as our Devs are, I can't see them being THAT good.

Actually "potty" mouth is a pretty good description of what he says.

Kind of surprised that word didn't trigger the bleeps as I have the profanity filter enabled to give me that super hero world feel ...

On the other hand, it may be that a lot of people would not consider it a "cussword"

Oh, and BABs is cheap too! One lousy merit?! I bet if I had faced CASTLE in that arc I would have gotten at least TWO merits!