Biostem

I've had it happen a few times; usually when there's an in-mission ambush that attacks as soon as you enter the mission. The odd thing is, I was able to see a regular spawn of enemies just fine, behind where the attacks were emanating from. Still, they should AT LEAST have a smokey cloud around your head to indicate this, or make smoke grenade a targetted AoE instead of somethign that sticks with you (which I think is kind of odd)...

This kind of reminds me of the first time I encountered a fake nemesis and I saw a force bolt headed my direction. I had tried FF defenders before and was a bout to laugh... then it hit and did like over 200pts of damage.

But, yeah... mob versions of powers are ridiculous compared to player versions...

The problem is, the Night Widow's smoke grenade is much more powerful than the player version. If a blaster smoke grenade's a group, then attacks them, they'll see him no problem. If a Night Widow smoke grenades a team, not only can they not see her, but they can't see her allies either, even if they attack. As soon as the NPC's attack, you should be able to see them, just as they could see you if you used smoke grenade on them.

Regardless, 1 insight/tactics/any +perception power will resolve the whole issue...

Whether or not the Koreans have 40+ characters is irrelevant; this is a thread about elec melee - no one has any character w/ elec melee on live.

Being that this is the test server we're talking about, why not give characters a level bump... they do want these powers tested, right?

Now... not to boast, but I feel confident to say I am a good player. However, do the devs want me to roll a brand new TA defender, controller, or MM, and level them up to a "respectable" level in short order? Now... give me a 30+ TA whatever on test and I'll be glad to help. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna make the investment of time to level up a TA from scratch to do their testing. Now, please don't take what I'm saying as whining, just that I physically can't and won't invest the time to do all this testing now... if TA started out on a sour note, why would I have a TA character laying around to copy over and test with? You are absolutely right on all accounts of needing hard data. But, I also don't think that will do much if you're on a team. A good team can very easily pick up the slack if one team member is underperforming. I mean, w/ my kin/rad defender, I've often teamed w/ */kin controllers, especially in the higer levels, that contributed more than I could...

The problem is, even the poorest AT & build CAN complete a mission, solo, set on heroic or villanous. If that is the baseline, (and I recall a statement by statesman that he expected a 25% attrition rate on teams in missions), then really no set is "underperforming". Don't get me wrong, with the variety of debuffs and soft control TA has, it can be good, but when people put it side by side with kinetics, dark, etc, it clearly IS underperforming...

Just a general inquiry: is TA, as it is shaping up w/ all these changes, going to be decent for MMs come i7? I ask, because many of the powers *sound* good, but all the hero planner programs I've checked with show the debuffs as too small and the recharges too long...

Ya see... this is part of the problem: the training room is for testing, right? So how are we supposed to test stuff if we have to take all the usual time and what-not to level up? I mean, if all they wanted to test were the first couple of powers, then this is a good tactic, but if they want ALL the powers tested, we all need to be able to roll lvl 50 elec/elec brutes and have unlimited infamy & respec to try different power combinations. Like the other poster mentioned - he only used end mod TOs - how are we really supposed to see how things are, given that the majority of a character's career is post-SOs?

Right now, it just isn't worth the time investment to me to play on test - I'd rater pay to play the final product, as it were. Perhaps they should give out badges for those who play on test for any length of time or somesuch (at least)...

Sounds like they need to change it to a targetted AoE, that can be used w/o needing an enemy, and make them aggressive to anything that's an enemy...

Yes, it does look silly, but in many thug-genre movies, peopel turn the gun sideways. Why? I dunno... but it fits thematically...

I say use the tranq dart origin power animation, and have them run around with the needle sticking out of their neck for a while.

'Dyne FTW!!!

I'm surprised they didn't just give the thugs automatics. When I think gang members, I think automatic pistols, not revolvers. Give the enforcers pistols and make them gunslingers, instead of uzi's

Having the 1st upgrade be tossing the thugs a can of "something" would work, but I think taking a nod to the bot upgrade, and having them get inked by some random tatoo artist would be cooler...

I think a lot of the thug MM stuff is tongue-in-cheek. It's basically like oyu have unthemed skulls or hellions on your team. Also, in the pictures I've seen of the tier 3 thug, he looks pretty "ethnic" to me...

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-My pistols are freakin huge. I am a female, with the default height and athletic build. The guns are rediculously gigantic. The handle is way larger then my hand could hold, and it penetrates the geometry of my character. The top part of the gun is no better. It also has a bland white texture, which does not look very gun like.

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Your guns look "bland white"? On my MM, they're grey/silver. I'd check your grpahics settings or driver... I've had issues in the past where metallic objects don't render properly...

I just wonder, though - the monthly fees we've all been paying, which used to give us 4 updates per year won't be going down, and they'll be paid expansions on top of the reduced number of free updates. So... uh... yeah...

Paid expansion pricing will have tobe very specific to the contect it includes. If it included a 1-10 zone, for example, it wouldn't be very worthwhile, since you rocket through those levels very quickly. A 40-50 zone, or even 30-40 zone woudl be more worthwhile, since you spend a decent chunk of time in those level ranges. But, tbh, I'd rather more mission tilesets, more powersets & ATs, EATs, or "free-agent" PPPs.

I'd also NOT like to have anymore EATs that are locked into 1primary & 1 secondary. As cool and novel as kheldians are, if you've made 1 PB, you've made them all. All I really have left is to roll a WS. It's different with the regular ATs, as a kin/ defender plays much differently than a dark/ defender...

But... 1 more AT for $10 - I'd pay that. 2 more powersets per existing AT (1 primary, 1 secondary) - I'd pay $20 for that...

This is a disturbing trend to start... if they're going to have additional content that you have to pay for, I will become worried. I can write-off buying CoV since it's essentially a new game, but to pay for a new powerset, or a new AT, just bothers me. I mean, should we expect such "premium" ATs to be better than the regular ones? I'd also be worried if pay-per-content expansions became the norm, and the free content took a backseat...

I haven't read all the pages of this thread, so please forgive me. Is the issue that you want a to-hit check made for the damage that would be applied to each henchman, for the damage that would be redirected via the bodyguarding feature? Hasn't such a check been made, in effect, on the attack directed at you, the MM.

I admit, though, that since you can't buff yourself, enemies could theoretically defeat your bots by attacking you directly, if you had them in bodyguard mode.

This is one of the reasons I think MMs need to be able to placate their foes, or pets need some sort of taunt.

Oh, well...

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Should a Brute be given 50% Fury at all times in PvP because it's harder to build it than in PvE? Maybe Dominators should always have Domination in PvP, too?

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There's a known bug that brutes don't generate fury as they should in PvP.. this is being addressed.

Domionation should build faster in PvP, I agree with that.

A Controller is NOT a pet class - they should not have any special bonuses for having pets.

If I tpfoe a controller, do their primary powers remain behind? Yes or no? That is what essentially happens when you tp foe a MM. No other AT has this issue.

Frankly, I'd like to see tp foe simply removed - no other level 6 power causes so much headache as this one does...

No other At has the kinds of issues in PvP that MMs have. Why should a MM have to jog along or take group tp or group fly to have his pets keep up (both of which don't work 100%)?

MMs are very good in PvE, but that's because mobs don't tp foe or go straight for the MM.

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Do you realise what kind of precedent that sets? Should my Controller automatically bring Spectral Terror, Phantasm, Decoy Phantasm, and my Phantom Army with me if I'm TPed?

What about a Fire Tank? Should Burn come with him when teleported? Dark Servant? Rain of Fire?

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Do those powers move with you when you go somewhere else? Are those powers the entire crux of your powerset? With the exception of the 3 personal attacks, the MM is physically unable to do anything else with his primary if the pets aren't there. Can the same be said for the powersets you mentioned?

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I'm levelling a mastermind now (merc/traps, lvl 30) and I absolutely disagree with this. Masterminds are the easiest, safest class to level, and it's because they can hide behind their pets. That split of powers is a major source of strength for them, so I have no problem with it also being a weakness.

It's a trade-off that I'm fine with.

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I am glad you are so accepting of the PvP tradeoff MMs have to deal with. I am not. No other class gets their effectiveness cut in half or more by having tp foe used on them. No other class essentially loses their primary by being tp'd away.

Yes, their are some lazy MM's that hide behind their pets, but they should not be conisdered the norm, nor should other MMs suffer for their play style. When I can tp fo e a tanker and have his armors left behind, I'll stop supporting this notion that pets should travel w/ the MM...

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A PvP fix for MMs wouldn't be that hard to encode:

1. Pets get the travel power of the MM and use it when you do, and keep up with you perfectly.



I do believe Robots have Super Jump? I feel that it'd be best if some sets had certain advantages, like this, so that they'd have more worth in certain areas than others.

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The tier 1 bots have super LEAP, which is very different than the player power, superjump. They can't keep up with you.

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2. TP Foe brings the MM and his pets, and the specific target (i.e. the MM, is replaced with a random pet)



I disagree with this, as this negates the usefulness of TP Foe.

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A MMs pets ARE his powers. If you use tp foe on a tank or blaster, do their powers get left behind? A MM's powers should not be left behind by using tp foe on him.

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3. Placate, dammit, placate! Let the MM placate his enemy, or have the pets taunt the enemy they attack.



Ninjas. I do believe there is a placate power? That's the reason to get Ninja.

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The 2nd tier of ninja henchmen get placate fo themselves. Thus, they remove themselves fom the enemy's aggro list. I am referring to having the MM be able to placate an opponent, thus makign the opponent have to target something else - like a henchman.

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4. Set a mode so the MM becomes indistinguishable from one of his pets. If you can't tell who is the MM and who is the henchman, the MM can live that much longer.



I kind of like this idea, but it doesn't make any sense seeing as you would obviously see who gives the orders(Realistically), and you're also an evil Mastermind. They don't cower, they stand there, bark orders and laugh. They also pet cats. I like cats. I'd recommend just making your character look like the pets ahead of time if you want to look like them.


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Ever heard of Doctor Doom? He makes hordes of robots that look just like him. He then has you talk to one that is obviously giving orders and such, while he is hidden amongst his cadre. This would be no different, and purely optional.

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5. Make the pets a threat. Make the henchmen damage actually meaningful in PvP!



Uh..it does?
On my 22 MM in Sirens Call I took a Tank down to 50% hp with lethal damage. LETHAL damage.
On a TANK.
Who had toggles up and wasn't detoggled.
Without Commando.


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I'm sorry, I don't buy it. Why didn't the tank just take you out in a few hits? Were you using fear on him, were you using inspirations? I have never been able to take out a melee AT in a stand-up fight unless I feared them or juiced my henchmen up on insp's. Were you kiting him?

A PvP fix for MMs wouldn't be that hard to encode:

1. Pets get the travel power of the MM and use it when you do, and keep up with you perfectly.

2. TP Foe brings the MM and his pets, and the specific target (i.e. the MM, is replaced with a random pet)

3. Placate, dammit, placate! Let the MM placate his enemy, or have the pets taunt the enemy they attack.

4. Set a mode so the MM becomes indistinguishable from one of his pets. If you can't tell who is the MM and who is the henchman, the MM can live that much longer.

5. Make the pets a threat. Make the henchmen damage actually meaningful in PvP!

The bodyguard concept is a good start, if the pets could reliably travel with the MM. In PvE, this isn't a big deal, but in PvP you are screwed.

TP-ing a tanker doesn't leave his armor behind... it shouldn't do that for MMs either. Perhaps give the 2nd or 3rd tier henchman a tp-jammer or make the henchmen tp/travel along w/ the MM...

Maybe it's just easier to change a power and just treat it the same in both PvP and PvE. I agree, though, that is should not be changed in PvE. It's liek a signature power for stormies!