Biospark

And this is exactly why I think more attention should be put on Self-Defense.
We dont need EVERY ally power changed, just some, and really only for powersets that are underperforming solo (Like Empathy).

Think about this one idea as an example. Empathy is the MAIN healing set, correct?
Why then can other sets use a better AOE heal (Like Dark and Kinetics, or the SAME like Rad). To seperate Empathy from the healing pack, shouldnt the AoE heal of Empathy be better than RAD, which has so many other tools which help while solo.

I say make Healing Aura a 20-25% base heal and give it some other effect that lasts for 8 secs like +regen, +res, +dmg, +rech etc... etc.. etc.. Something that would help a lower level solo empath. Or better yet, give them +res and +res to status effects.

and thats it. ONE Change. This could do so much for a solo empath, especially the status protection.

This just had me giggling when I read it.
For any new viewers, read it out loud.

I think most people will agree that Vigilance needs to be changed somehow.
Even though I am starting to warm up to the +rech idea that some suggest, one thing keeps getting pointed out to me nearly every time I post is that every primary is different, so some things will help each powerset differently. This is why I believe a HP boost would be a better start. It would help every powerset pretty much the same.

I am not sure I can agree with this. My only epic character is a Blaster, so take that for what its worth, but I have watched Psyonico's exploits on Video and it sure reminded me of my Mind/Empathy controller (well not the blasting part). For a set like Empathy, adding controller powers would be quite nice.

I can see your point here. But two things I would note. The problems with mezzing start much earlier in the game, hence why I am always saying changes should be made to some of the earliest powers to help out. Also, I think alot of folks(not saying that you are) underestimate stacking the resist of Tough(or Dispersion) with an Epic armor. My Blaster sometimes amazes me with how durable he is in a fire-fight. Once again the reason I am in agreement on the HP increase idea.

I actually like that there are melee attacks in the epics. In fact, I think having more melee options would nice from standard pools. Or at least, give us some animation options.
If they would give the standard pools a 5th power including more melee options, then your ideas about taking out the melee attacks would be fine. But... for odd folks like me that want more melee attacks, please no, add more, dont take away my toys

Sorry for paraphrasing Amy. Lots to read hehe.
You have some interesting ideas and as far as outside the box, the more ideas that are brought out, the more likely the Devs will look at them and think about them.
Keep on talking

On my Energy-Device Blaster this is pretty much what I have done. Not sure how Thunderstrike is on your server, but I found it to be quite affordable and I have a full set in each of my 3 ST Blasts. Also went with 2 Zephyr sets as well. But my character is a flyer.

Combined with other powers and IOs I have 37% Ranged defense and have not spent more than 2.5 million for any single recipe.

100% agree with you

I think the most succinct answer to this question is ... not really.
Keep in mind that I have not played Trick Arrow or Cold yet, so cannot say anything about them. But for the sets I have played (Emp, Kin, FF, Sonic, Dark, Rad and Storm) every set has some powers which you should be actively using on your team.

Storm might be the least buff/heal oriented of those sets, but its not a 'beginner' set either. You can easily annoy all your friends and run out of endurance before arresting anything hehe.

For an interesting read on a unique power combo, check out Luminara's Kinetic Scrapper Guide.
This is my current project defender (Kin/Dark) and its looking pretty good so far.

Adult_Swim,

Fulmens makes a great point. I know you expressed a desire to not buff, but I have played both Dark and Rad in team and solo settings. For me, Having your Anchors wiped ALL THE TIME is much more frustrating than buffing. I loved my Empath in a team, always something to do. But solo.... well I think you can guess.

So, from my perspective, if you can deal with your anchors dropping in group (And THEY WILL), Dark and Rad both solo quite well and offer great team benefits. I think RAD is a little more team friendly. And thats because , even though I love Tar Patch, most teams I have been on, its hard to get it into a good rythm and place it well for every fight. Combat is too fluid (read Chaotic), unless you have a great team that knows the value of what you are doing.

Hey Robin,

I think that I understand where you are coming from. I too started with defenders as my chosen AT because I like support and had this notion I could blast, pick up some melee moves and be an all-around Hybrid Hero. It took far less time for me to lose faith than you. I think my FF/RAD made it to 13th. Then I played an Empath solely in group to about 24.

After that I went to the world of Controllers. Because, even though they werent (in the begining) any better at soloing than Defenders (actually they were slower, but safer), I got to feel like a support character that could 'go it alone' when teams were not available.
When they gave us Containment, my Mind/Empath was in his mid 30-s and I thought that everything was good in my little world.

But I never lost the desire to play a defender, and finally walked away from my Controller at 38, because why. Boredom. Pounding on statues in complete safety only lasts so long as a factor of enjoyment. My Current Highest Hero is an Energy-Devices Blaster who plays in ST fashion and uses Hover, +Def ranged sets, Medicine and +regen IO sets.
In essence, he is very 'Defendery'. The best part is that blasting foes in the face and knocking them across the room may not be as safe as using a Controller Hold, but its sure as hell more fun

Thats all I can really offer as the difference that I see. Defenders are more challenging, strategic and viscerally more fun.

From my own experience, Yeah, I would prefer the second option. Endurance issues are very fixable, and something that every Hero addresses. The only reason why I see endurance as a good generic way to handle this, is that its like the opposite of the damage scalar of blasters. They blast to increase their damage and it stacks over time.
We use our abilities (whatever powerset you choose) and you gain a stacking savings as your bar lowers.

I have always said (in my SG) that Blasters and Scrappers are like sprinters, whereas Tankers and Defenders are like Marathon runners. One group kills with speed(dmg), the other can go on-and-on-and-on like the energizer bunny.

Yep, Which is why its more wishful thinking on my part.

But it is thematic. Your Mezzed Darkie, is ever-vigilant and can pop off a heal under any condition. While a Stormie can send foes flying. An Empath could AoE heal

IF (and its a BIG If) they did this, they would probably shift around the first powers in some effort to balance which ones would be usable. Poor Forcefield I doubt theyd let you use PFF under this condition. Although ....

If I may weigh in on this topic, I certainly feel that Defenders need something in regards to their Inherent.

I see Defenders as the flip-side of Blasters, much as Tankers are the flip-side of Scrappers.
As such, Blasters and Scrapper inherents are very nice and well suited to their AT.
Tankers Inherent is thematic, although I am sure Veteran tankers have varied opinions of it.
At one point (sorry my memory is not so great) Tankers got a slight adjustment to their Endurance costs on their attacks. I dont recall the official stance on why this was done, but I feel that Defenders should have an endurance tweak as well.

As far as a good Inherent option. I would propose a generic endurance savings based on their endurance bar itself. For example, we could get a endurance cost reduction as we lose endurance 1% savings every 2% used endurance. Theoretically, this would be 50% endurance savings at 0% endurance, but would be less tied to the Powersets, and still be thematic.

Additionally, Blasters have the ability to use certain abilities while under status effects. I think it would be much more thematic for Defenders to have some ability of this type. Perhaps we could only use our 1st Primary power while under status. This is more wishfull thinking on my part, and may be too powerful, but hey ! I can hope.

I dont think I have shifted my position at all. In fact it has remained unchanged. Please dont make it sound like I have changed my position. Neither of us have moved an inch. I actually have only made comments to individuals that have dismissed my opinion out of hand. There are many people in the community that have made their point without calling me ignorant in the process. Call me a mirror. If you start up with me, expect response in kind.
As far as Storm and Rad being bad for soloing, you have me mixed up with someone else, I certainly dont put either of those 2 sets on the 'Hard to solo' list. In fact RAD is perhaps the EASIEST set to jump right into and solo like a champ of all Defender sets.

I agree with this conclusion completely. Variety and differences are Paramount to successful design.

Well, I have to agree with your assessment of the game in an overall way. But I have to ask you how making a game 'Easy' in general promotes group play. I tend to think it would have the opposite effect and push players to challenge their characters by ,hmmm soloing AVs, doing full 8-man mission maps. There is also the Genre to consider. One of my personal tired arguments is "did you sign up to play a Hero or a Sidekick"

Yeah, I think every game evolves from its inception and as players 'Learn' the options, people tend to lump together and form pre-conceived ideas of each "Class, AT, etc..." But just as often, you find really out of the box applications which I kinda gravitate towards. Example: Blappers.

This is, I think one of our core disagreements. First off, I didnt choose to be less solo-able or more team-friendly. Simply put, I did not design the game. Those choices are made before I ever loaded the game on my computer. I do agree that after playing for a very short amount of time, I was able to determine that my FF defender was kinda impaired for solo play. So, in essence, I am left with choosing some other powerset than my first choice in order to feel like a Hero (One who can solo and team to MY satisfaction). Yes, I have placed a personal gauge on what is Heroic. And it may be different than yours. But my game experience and enjoyment are the reasons I pay the monthly fee.

Also one of our core differences. I can see your argument LOUD and clear. It has been repeated over and over,
but what I propose is NO change that would improve these sets in a team environment by any significant amount.
Using FF again as an example. An 8-man team receives the full benefit of 3 shields (or 7/8ths of the team) That 1/8 (lets call it 12.5%) is the Defender. So, your view is that if that 1 man gets defenses as high as the other 7 this is unbalanced. I will admit that the team, is improved by that change, but more along the lines that the defender is less of an achilles heel than before. But I dont see this as such an earth-shattering change for groups at all. But certainly could bring a FF more in-line with the other 'solo-friendly' sets.

I truely understand your fear of changes coming with nerfs in hand. I do. I hope that this is not actually the reason you object to improving the game. Because, I personally feel (this is from observation in game, not calculated server populations) that certain defender sets are much more common as a Controller's secondary than as a Defender primary. I would point to that as evidence as to WHY the changes I feel are necessary are not being done, rather than "working as intended"

Hmm, I am not sure whose ideas these are. I have never advocated powers that shut off.
What I have advocated is precise and surgical changes to certain powers to improve the solo ability without changing the team effects. Additionally, I think only certain powers need to be touched, not ALL ALLY only powers. Could be that you have me confused with others.
The best way I see in helping certain Powersets is to target a power(or 2) and change them into PBAoE much like Accellerate metabolism. I will not list ones I think should be changed, unless you are willing to realistically discuss WHY it would be overpowered.

Well perhaps you are unable to hold a discussion WITHOUT being condescending.

I dont expect to "Win" this debate with you. Nor so I expect any 'warm and fuzzy' memories from our debate. But you have not succeeded in convincing me that my opinion is invalid, so we are left on opposite sides of the aisle still.

One thing that seems to escape everyone, is that you ask me for proof that changes would NOT be unbalanced. But unless some of these "Ideas" that myself and others have proposed are actually implemented and tested. We cannot "PROVE" they are not unbalanced, any better than you can prove they are.

So, If I "Walk AWAY" from you and your opinion, I neither view that as a "WIN" or "LOSS" for your side or mine. If you choose to view it in your own way, thats your free right.

Talen_Lee and I have responded to each other earlier in the thread.
I apologize if you thought my comment was directed at anyone else besides Talen_Lee.

Snark-i-ness aside. My opinion WAS, and still IS, that there is nothing wrong with helping a few powersets out for purposes of solo play. Many Veterans here have admited that there are powersets that do not solo well and could stand some help. What people like ULTIMO and I are advocating is that these powersets are not even in the SAME REALM of solo capability as other defender powersets. I am not a person that compares or expects to have my defender solo like a scrapper. I also dont expect my EMPATHY defender to solo as well as a RAD defender. But they are not even in the same realm of solo-ability (Unless and Until you spend serious effort doing so). Also, in an effort to make a solo-worthy Empath (as an example) you could potentially harm your group worthi-ness.

people like Talen_Lee say thats working as intended, your a newb, GTFO.
I respectfuly, disagree with this view.

I will admit, that as a result of these powersets being what they are.
My only Empaths are Controllers, and thats not likely to change, as much as I wish it would.

Just keep telling yourself that TALEN_LEE

To be Honest ULTIMO, for a game that has matured like COH has, I suspect that it comes down to volumn of feedback. The Noble "Empathy" defenders that should be here asking for help have either A) Fully Accepted and Embraced that they are "Group-Only" Heroes.
or B) Moved on to other options (Like myself) where I can enjoy group play AND still Solo from time to time.

Also, I have noticed with these types of games that it eventually becomes a game filled with only HIGH-END characters and their ALTS. So the "emphasis" and "concerns" of the Developers and Community of players is less about leveling up (And Difficulties or Imbalances) but more about keeping the Hard-Core "stable" of players happy and interested.

That was not a criticism of gamers, devs or players (by the way), just an observation after 9+ years of MMO play in many different games.

Also, just for the record, CoH Stands head and shoulders over the top of other MMOs in their embracing of trying new things, as opposed to the same-old thing but with a new wrapper (which is how I see most MMOs these days)

BINGO ! I cannot see anything here that I disagree with TURBO.

That still leaves the question in my mind (That ALOT of folks oppose), which is WHY cannot these less solo-friendly powersets get some help. Not to the point that they are overpowered or "Scrapper-like", but to the effect that they dont feel completely gimp without a tremendous effort to make them "Solo-able" ?

I have to agree on this one StratoNexus, When I think SOLO defenders, RAD and DARK are the first two primaries that come to mind. And I have played both of them at least into SO territory. They solo very well in my opinion.