Biospark

Originally Posted by Olepi

I think Defenders underperform in several ways:

FUN (Fireworks theory) -- studies have been done on why people like fireworks; the brain actually gets overloaded with stimulus, there is an electrical storm in the brain, and people like it. Fireball is a great fireworks power. Defenders typically have a lot more hidden powers: no real flash that causes the storm. Controllers and blasters do much more graphic action, I think, and that makes them more attractive. Beef up Defender's graphics effects. Make healing zazz, make the debuffing obvious. When a controller holds a full spawn, or a blaster throws a Fireball, people go ahhhhh!, but what does a Defender do that makes people go ahhhh?

FUN (action) -- another really fun thing is to hit stuff, the more boom the better. Tankers and scrappers have a lot of direct action on the enemy. Blasters, especially blappers, also get to mash on enemies. There is a lot of dangerous action with the enemy. Defenders typically are not blapping or meleeing, and so don't get to have as much direct action on the enemy, or if they do, it is not graphically obvious.

FUN (numbers) -- I will maintain that Controllers have better "numbers" than Defenders. For example, my 50 ill/emp has all the emp powers, and he is almost as good as an emp Defender. But he is also another complete toon, so he is really about 1.8 characters. Very powerful. A Defender is about 1.55 characters: full marks for support, but weak on the rest. The controller can play as two whole toons, the Defender as 1.5. I would lower the controller's secondary effectiveness (maybe to 65-70%), so that Defenders are noticeably better. I mean noticeably. (And also noticeably better than Corrupters.)

FUN (roleplaying) -- ok, so what if one type of character is less played? Why does that matter? More people want to be fighter pilots, and fewer want to be ground mechanics. So what? Is there a shortage? The real problem here is that Defenders and Controllers overlap so much, that the roles are blurred. But why should the Devs care?

So my suggested fixes are:
- add some really cool graphics effects to Defender powers, let the people go ahhhh! over some powers. Example: Rad casts RI, all the team sees is a glow. Change to Rad throws a giant RI ball that explodes, causing the glow. Team goes ahhhh!, Rad ball! Controllers don't get the same graphics; they throw a little ball ....
- adjust the Defender powers so that Defenders do really noticeably better with them. Noticeably. The Big Rad Ball does much better than the little one. Put debuff numbers above the mobs, perhaps similar to Scourge. People love big numbers, put the debuff numbers up and the team can see that Defenders far outstrip the rest.
- make the Defender's Blaster powers the same scale as Controller Defender powers. This makes the Defender into almost two toons, like my Controller example. I would vote against this however; if we put in better graphics and more differentiation, we would be ok.

The perception problem can be solved with better graphics; the "numbers" problem can be solved with a boost to Defender effectiveness; and the role playing problem cannot be fixed.

BP

Originally Posted by Arondell

This would also require a fundamental remaking of how the small shields function since you can't target yourself and getting that much defense for yourself for a paltry 7.8 endurance every 4 minutes would be very broken balance wise. Most defenses on that level are toggles.

Sounds like a lot of work for something I'm fairly sure the devs wouldn't agree with.

Originally Posted by Linea_Alba

Sands and similar vet powers have their own special tables that emulate what the devs considered "standard Training, DO, SO Slotting". This means that in some cases Sands may have a higher to-hit than your own attack powers, and in other cases a lower to-hit. Which will depend on how closely your slotting mirrors what the devs considered "standard" at that time. I can confirm the last-chance-to-hit percentages through around level 20 when I stopped using my vet powers, were nominally similar, as were damage. My personal slotting tended to be a few % higher on the last-chance-to-hit, but a bit lower on the damage, but nominally equivalent. Circa i9 If I recall correctly.

Originally Posted by DrMike2000

Last bit of advice - save a yellow pill (or make one) for the end boss to take him down quicker with the old Sands.

Originally Posted by mintmiki

for me it was more like:
lvl 1-6 1000 deaths 10-20 hours played
lvl 7-12 2000 deaths 20-40 hours played
lvl 13-16 5000 deaths 1 month of play

Starting out on the game exclusively on a low population server, I ended up having to solo my emp/archer quite a bit after I lvled out of the Faultline arc. I would still be playing my toon to 50 if I hadn't done an informal lvling pact with a regen katana scrapper. When soloing, I had to snipe almost all of my targets from afar and could never solo anything higher than heroic difficulty.

It was my first toon on my first MMO, so everything was painfully slow. However, I loved every second of it and every other toon I've built was cake because of it.

Originally Posted by Rodion

If you slot IO sets that grant accuracy (like Thunderstrike, which is generally available pretty cheaply) your accuracy with the vet powers can be improved.

I've got an Empathy/Psi and a Storm/Electric. I tried really hard to make Short Circuit work with my defender, but it just didn't cut it. By itself it almost drains them dry. But most PvE mobs only have a couple of attacks that take little endurance, so SC doesn't do much to mitigate damage. To make it really have the desired effect I had to get SC and Power Sink from Electricity Mastery. But a defender can't kill the mobs fast enough for it to really matter.

It works a lot better with my electric/electric blaster: I drain them and then put them down before they can recharge. Still, the three holds I have on my blaster are much more useful than Short Circuit. PvE enemies just don't suffer like players do from lack of End.

Originally Posted by StratoNexus

Defenders do not need to be super soloists in my book. I just need to feel like I can occasionally solo in between teams, maybe just to catch up on a story arc or to polish off an arc I am near outleveling or just to get the last bubble and half to the next level after everyone else went to bed. The game, as is, exists at that point for me, but I have started to believe I have an unusual outlook.

Originally Posted by m3lon

Honestly, instead of spending $15/month on the game, you can just go buy a knife. Clearly you hate yourself, and though this quest is among the better ways to prove it, suicide is the traditional alternative.

Originally Posted by Seraphael

I don't exactly know what you expect to prove with this experiment, Biospark. We all know it will take much longer to solo that build than any other set combo in the entire game.

Anyway, do you use veteran powers? If you do, you shouldn't as the majority of the player base (I guess) don't have access to these attacks. Defenders benefit from these more than any other AT as the damage is the same regardless of the AT.

Personally I'd rather had my tonsils removed by a rusty spoon than soloing an Empath/Electricity Defender to 50. I tip my hat to you for your obvious self loathing, sir.

Originally Posted by StratoNexus

It should get hard in the late 20s, that is where I usually experience "trouble". Of course, I never built a defender just to solo, so I always had some short slotting in attacks until the late 30s. Building specifically to solo, you may have an easier time.

I strongly recommend Zapp at level 22 or 24. I am not fond of snipes, but in solo play, and especially for a defender, they can be very valuable.

Originally Posted by SkeetSkeet

So after you spend an absurd number of hours "proving" that it takes an absurd number of hours to solo emp/electric to 50, what will you have "proved" that isn't already patently obvious going into it?

Originally Posted by jwbullfrog

One of my better soloists is Emp/Archery. The fighting style is very "hit and run" but it seems to work well. Add in Recovery aura and Regeneration aura later on in the set and you get a fair ability to stand and fight.


I support this project.

Originally Posted by Amy_Amp

The biggest not talked about mitigation aspect of /elec is the shock animation your targets go through after you hit them. It's not a lot, but if you keep tossing out blasts you can slow down incoming damage. There are times when end drain becomes a very underrated mitigation tool because it can be a control aspect that gets kind of forgotten about. My Kin/elec absolutely owns the end drain EB in the LGTF, and that thing can put a world of hurt on a team. IIRC, the Cimerorans were given some resist against controls. End drain wasn't one of them.

Originally Posted by Reverend

Just because it is POSSIBLE to solo, doesn't mean it makes any sense to, or that it is balanced with other archetypes.

Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight

Good luck.

You are in for a long and painfully slow leveling experience.

(and it's a pain that no power in empathy can cure)

Originally Posted by Hobo_Healer

Best of luck. My Emp/Dark was mostly solo, my Emp/Rad was half and half.

Not sure I could do it with Elec. Had an Rad/Elec at one time and Elec just felt really lacking.

Originally Posted by Balanced

Make no mistake, empaths can solo. It's not quick, but it's entirely possible. You don't even have to sacrifice your team support capability to do it, though you might as well, since you're going to play solo-only. Unsurprisingly, I prefer balanced defenders.

Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan

I would argue that Defenders' superior multipliers applied to support powers would present a strong argument for their being the original intended superior support AT. It's easy to see in hindsight how things actually shook out, but then we have the benefit of hindsight that the original developers most definitely did not. How long did it take, after all, for people to realize just how important DPA is?

DPE normalization is something I could most definitely get behind. It'd have to take into account more than just the straight AT damage mod, though, or ATs with an inherent that increases damage (I am looking particularly at Brutes, Controllers, and Masterminds!) would get a wholly unwarranted buff.

Originally Posted by EmperorSteele

Or you could combine... Go FF/Sonic. I have one and it's pretty nifty. Since FF/* has a few KB powers (that your team would thank you to skip), it opens up some room in your build for attacks and pool powers.

Just an idea.

Originally Posted by CoyoteShaman

Are you suggesting giving them a pets secondary where the pets would do some de/buffs instead of damage?

Originally Posted by Silver_Tooth

I'm with StratoNexus on this one. As nice as it would be to have status protection in some form or another, it's not a hard weakness to overcome. I usually carry a few emergency break frees and some purple insps for such situations.

Besides, if everyone has status protection then what's the point of giving NPCs mez powers at all? Or giving defenders powers to prevent/break mezzes?

Edit: Strato's link just needs Benny Hill music going on in the backround. Everything's funnier when played in fast forward with that music.