Biospark
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Being a person very interested in the future of Defenders, I would add my opinion to the mix on this idea. I am not overly optimistic how GR will affect the appeal of Defenders (Blue-side). But I think it helps to put this in perspective.
I started a SOLO quest to prove my opinions wrong, and I will admit the one flaw in my plan was setting him up with a slush fund. My first hero in the game was a defender (5 years ago) and even after several months I had not amassed enough Influence to set any of my toons with SOs in every slot. Invention origins didnt exist and my opinion of Defenders became very colored by this and other factors.
Flash forward to now, where I have at least 1 epic character who can provide financial assistance to ANY of my newbie characters. This Factor ALONE makes every character I play much better at surviving the first 20-22 levels (Which are the most difficult I believe).
Someone else had mentioned, and I TOTALLY agree, that if a friend were starting the game today, I would steer them away from team-oriented characters like Defenders, Controllers and Tankers even. And instead have them try a Blaster or Scrapper. Particularly a Scrapper, which combines good offense with very solid personal defense. This way they could learn the game first and enjoy it while they became familiar with what it takes to play a more strategic AT like a controller or defender.
So, in summary, anyone coming into a game like CoH who wants to play a more support role, will find in the near future more choices than when the game initially launched and be honest with yourself. If you have the choice between several different support styles and some of the choices were also pretty darn good at solo, or (shall we say) better at it than the other support choices, I think that most people will take the road thats somewhat easier and offers you the choice of "your cake and eat it too".
GR will not destroy defenders, nor will it convince hard-core defenders to give up their favorite characters, but I personally feel that controllers have kinda shoved us aside, now we will have more ATs getting in line in front of us.
Quit my AT, Never !!.
But I am a skeptic at heart I guess. We will have to wait and see how it pans out.
Keep on Defending Guys !
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Quote:Thanks Perwira,Originally Posted by perwira
Looks good, and based on all you've posted so far, about what I expected. Bet you can't wait 'til you've got Sparky by your side!
As an aside, you mentioned wanting to increase your defense where you could. You're probably not swimming in inf, but a worthy IO to obtain is the unique Steadfast Protection: Resistance/Defense which provides a +3% Def (All). You might want to eventually slot this into your Tough power.
Thanks for posting your build and I'm curious how it works as you get into the upper levels.
You are correct about Influence, I have to grab recipes when they come up at bargain prices or (half the time) when I get a lucky drop like Positron's.
The steadfast +def IO is on the list of things to get, and it will go into Tough as soon as I can scrape 150 merits together.
I am still waffling on Sparky, because I have not decided on my epic pool yet.
If I decide on Psychic (cause MoB is just that good), I would not want him shooting my sleepers. But the draw to get Electric mastery is pretty high. I like EVERY one of the epic powers. Psychic and Power mastery both have at least one choice I dont like and in the case of Power, TI just would not impress me as much as MoB or CA. -
Hello again Perwira,
I am planning a respec with our upcoming freespec and this is where I will be when that happens. The only major differences will be swapping a few powers around like Maneuvers changing to Combat Jumping, Flying is being dropped for superspeed and a few slots are being moved around. Everything else remains the same, including IOs socketed. Ignore the levels on the IOs, I am still learning Mids, so was not able to have it show all IOs as level 35
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Bio_Two: Level 34 Mutation Defender
Primary Power Set: Empathy
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Healing Aura -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx:40(A), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg:40(5), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg:40(7), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:40(9), Mrcl-Heal:40(9)
Level 1: Charged Bolts -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:53(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:53(3), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:53(11), Dmg-I:53(15)
Level 2: Lightning Bolt -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:53(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:53(3), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:53(11), Dmg-I:53(15)
Level 4: Ball Lightning -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:53(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:53(5), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:53(13), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:53(17), EndRdx-I:53(33)
Level 6: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(17)
Level 8: Swift -- Run-I:53(A)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I:53(A), DefBuff-I:50(29)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:53(A), RechRdx-I:53(23), RechRdx-I:53(23)
Level 14: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I:53(A)
Level 16: Aim -- RechRdx-I:53(A), RechRdx-I:53(19), RechRdx-I:53(19)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I:53(A), Heal-I:53(25), Heal-I:53(25)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:53(A), EndMod-I:53(21), EndMod-I:53(21)
Level 22: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam:40(34), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(34)
Level 24: Weave -- EndRdx-I:53(A), DefBuff-I:53(31)
Level 26: Regeneration Aura -- RechRdx-I:53(A), RechRdx-I:53(27), RechRdx-I:53(27)
Level 28: Tesla Cage -- Lock-Acc/Hold:53(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg:53(29)
Level 30: Recovery Aura -- RechRdx-I:53(A), RechRdx-I:53(31), RechRdx-I:53(31)
Level 32: Short Circuit -- Efficacy-EndMod:53(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:53(33), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:53(33), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:53(34)
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:53(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I:53(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:53(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
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Set Bonus Totals:- 3% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 3% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 3% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 3% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 3% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 3% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 3% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 3% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing)
- 3.75% Defense(Lethal)
- 0.94% Defense(Fire)
- 0.94% Defense(Cold)
- 5% Defense(Energy)
- 5% Defense(Negative)
- 1.88% Defense(Psionic)
- 1.88% Defense(Melee)
- 2.5% Defense(Ranged)
- 1.88% Defense(AoE)
- 5% Enhancement(Heal)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 45.8 HP (4.5%) HitPoints
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 13% (0.22 End/sec) Recovery
- 10% (0.42 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 1.58% Resistance(Fire)
- 1.58% Resistance(Cold)
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Quote:Thanks PerwiraOriginally Posted by perwira
First, I'm assuming at a level 50 build and percentages. You might make different choices prior to level 50 because the percentages increase over the levels until level 50.
For the CB and LB, have a look at the Devastation set. A set of 4 of those will provide a global (non-ED'd limited) 3% bonus to all attacks - or two 2 sets for a hefty 3% + 3%. If you go this route instead of using Thunderstrike, you'd want to slot 4 of these 5:
# Devastation: Accuracy/Damage,
# Devastation: Damage/Endurance*,
# Devastation: Damage/Recharge*,
# Devastation: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge*,
# Devastation: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge*.
I'd probably go with the triplet/quadruplet to maximize total percentages and (given that you only want 30% or more accuracy) the two doublets marked with *.
Total damage% = (26.5 + 26.5 + 21.2 + 18.6 - ED) + 3% + 3% = (92.8% - ED) + 3% + 3%
Total accuracy% = (21.2 + 18.6) = 39.8%
Total recharge% = (26.5 + 21.2 + 18.6 - ED) = 60.3% - ED
Total endurance% = (26.5 + 18.6) = 45.1%.
(The -ED part of these numbers is the enhancement diversification penalty which is tolerable until the pre-ED bonuses >90%)
Then tack on two Efficacy Adapters for the endurance side of it, one for full End Mod plus one more according to your priority between recharge or endurance reduction:
# Endurance Modification*
# Endurance Modification/Recharge*
# Endurance Modification/Endurance Reduction
Total endurance mod% = (42.4 + 26.5) = 68.9% - ED
Add 26.5% to either the recharge or the endurance reduction, depending on the choice between the last two - I'd probably take the recharge to boost it to (60.3 + 26.5) = 86.8% - ED unless endurance is a problem for you.
As a whole, this maximizes damage (92.8% - ED + 6%), has very fast recharge (86.8% - ED), has a strong endurance mod attack (68.9% - ED), and has good endurance reduction (45.1%) and accuracy (39.8%).
I have been playing around with MIDS on these ideas, and I am quite impressed with what you can do using a 4+2 Frankeslotting setup. There are so many possible setups, that I will be tweaking this solo build for quite some time to come.
One thing I am trying to do is find a compfortable spot between Defense and Recharge.
One build I have pushes my Ranged defense to just under 30%, and Psionic/AoE both in the low to mid 20%. But my global recharge and Acc would only be around 1 SO level.
A second build I have would push global Recharge much higher 50%+ but Ranged defense drops to mid 20s and all other positions range from 14-19%.
Since I really think global recharge would help so much (RA, SC, etc...), I am having a hard time deciding how much defense would be "Good-Enough".
Note: None of the builds I am playing with on MIDs have purple sets (Its gonna be awhile for them). -
Quote:Heya PKOriginally Posted by Westley
PK was originally INTENDED 5 years ago to be a Forcefields/Fire Defender... before I found out we don't get fire. So I picked the next closest one "thematically", which is Electric.
So that's what he was, and that's what he'll always be. If we ever DO get fire, I'll have to create a new concept, because that's now become a part of his concept.
By the way, check the FF guide in my sig for anyone that might still be unaware on how I see ForceFields. If you ask me, I think I'll have a MUCH easier time solo-ing than you will Bio.
Yeah, I have read your guide and I knew that you had been FF/Electric, but wasn't sure if you were gonna try another set this time.
As far as ease of solo goes, If I were a betting man, I would bet on FF over Empathy in solo ability too. So, you are probably right.
There are too many mitigation bonuses you gain from FF over Empathy from just baseline powers. Then add in the fact that you could throw in the medicine pool (Like I did with my FF character) and you get another layer of survival.
I may try another FF character one day, but I am trying to think up a good concept for Either Sonic or Dark Blast. Sonic seems like the best graphical balance (at least till I16 arrives) and it gives FF the thing it lacks, which is some means of raising damage. -
Quote:Yeah I noticed that Stun proc in Energy Manipulator, but the only drawback is that set only goes up to 20 I think. As far as franken slotting goes I think I will give 4+2 a try in Each Attack and Each AoE. For the damage set, I will try 3 doubles and 1 triple and the 2 Endmod will be a double plus a pure EndMod. (Probably Efficacy adapter). The Energy Manipulator is cheap enough that I could try it out using 1 EndMod and the Stun proc and see what happens. I guess for the Single targets I could instead go 5 piece Decimation and the 1 proc IO.Originally Posted by Glowworm_Nexus
Biospark, I slot Short Circuit with some damage to go along with the drain. The thing is that mobs take two applications of SC to drain them regardless of whether you enhance the drain by 60% or 90% so I frankenslot with Efficiency Adapter, Performance Shifter and a cheap couple of AoE Damage sets. I end up having near max recharge, good ACC and end drain is buffed about 80% and damage is buffed about 45%.
Also, I put Energy Manipulator (chance to stun) proc in everything*, including Sparky, once I got my main slotting taken care of. It helps noticeably.
Oh, Electric epic has a single target hold too, in case you don't like psi. Either way you can stack your holds to take out bosses easily.
I get Shivans for EBs; otherwise they are a pain in the butt because even if you can stand up to them they still take a LONG time to kill.
*except SC, since I'm already slotting it up for multiple purposes. -
Quote:Hey Phil, I wish you all the best on this.Originally Posted by Westley
Awesome idea Biospark, you've inspired me.
I WAS going to work on a Warshade for my next project after getting my Fire/Regen scrapper to 50, but playing the Warshade something felt lacking, I don't know what.
Empathy is usually considered the worst to solo and the "best" to team with, as almost all their powers are team based.
Sonic and FF are usually counted as the next "worst" as having the next most number of team based powers.
So guess what? The Philotic Knight officially "died" on Protector when I made my "Death of PK" story arc, but your thread and posts have inspired me to remake him again as level 1 on Justice, the FIRST server where he turned 50 before I deleted him.
And I will solo him. Without the Vet powers.
With Force Bolt up my sleeve, I think this will be even EASIER than when I tried to solo blasters. Slower, yes, but easier. So thanks Biospark for giving me another excuse to bring PK back again.
One of my recent defenders was FF/Nrg and its pretty fun to play.
What Secondary are you thinking of going with ? Electric ? Energy ? -
Quote:Thanks StratoOriginally Posted by StratoNexus
~6 seconds after you use Short Circuit, use Tesla Cage. Tesla, like Short Circuit, is guaranteed to stop recovery (if you hit, of course), its not a chance to stop it.
Edit:
I did not slot either Charged or LB for end drain, but its not a bad idea, especially Lightning Bolt. My slotting for BL and SC are as follows, although I do not meet your criteria. Purple sets could help, but that is a bit pricey and would have to wait until 50.
Level 4: Ball Lightning -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(5), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(7), AirB'st-Acc/Dmg(9), AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg(31), AirB'st-Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 10: Short Circuit -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(11), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(11), Oblit-Dmg(15), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(15), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31) I appreciate the input, now off to check on my auctions hehe
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Quote:Hello again Perwira,Originally Posted by perwira
Here are some more specific IO slotting suggestions, if nothing else just to get you to thinking. The emphasis here is to load up with IO doublets and triplets which combined give far better values than single or generic IO's.
For single traget ranged attack, Thunderstrike starts at level 30 when you reach level 27, recommended in order:
Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Damage/Recharge or Damage/Endurance (deciding between endurance reduction or speeding up the attack chain)
Combined, this gives hefty damage bonuses, very fast recharge, good accuracy and some endurance reduction. The numbers add up much higher than using generic IO's.
A set of four helps with the accuracy and endurance issues (as well as some ranged defense), giving:
* 2: Increases Recovery by 2%.
* 3: Increases Energy and Negative Energy Defense by 2.5%.
* 3: Increases Ranged Defense by 1.25%.
* 4: Improves the Accuracy of all your powers by 7%.
If you have a 5th slot you might consider frankenslotting the Efficacy Adapter triplet End Mod/Recharge/Accuracy or (to address endurance issues) End Mod/End Red.
For the Short Circuit and maybe the Lightning Bolt, you can already slot in Efficacy Adaptors, recommended in order:
Endurance Modification/Recharge/Accuracy
Endurance Modification/Endurance Reduction (this attack does use up a lot of endurance)
Endurance Modification/Recharge
Endurance Modification/Accuracy
Recharge/Accuracy or Endurance Modification/Recharge (deciding whether you are going for faster recharge or perhaps additional accuracy)
A set of four will make you a lot more robust and again address endurance issues:
* 2: Increases maximum Health by 1.13%.
* 3: Increases Recovery by 1.5%.
* 4: Improves your Regeneration by 10%.
I am at the point where I am trying to Frankenslot (CB, LB, Ball Lightning and SC).
The problem I am seeing is trying to keep the damage mod over 90%.
For Charged Bolts and Lightning Bolt, I am thinking 4 Thunderstrikes and 2 Efficacy Adapters
For Short Circuit and Ball Lightning, I am having a hard time deciding, but in general I am trying to get (For all 4 attacks) 90%+ Dmg, 30%+ Acc, and as much EndMod, Rech, EndReduc as possible. If I have to lose something I would try to get End Reduction on the AoEs and Recharge on the Single Targets.
Maybe I am just tired, but I cannot see the answer to this one.
P.S. The offer for help is open for anyone to respond, and I will be 6-slotting all four of these powers. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
How to fix it? Ugh. I think the end drain in a way works well enough using SC twice that you could maybe cut back the end drain a small amount, and then boost the damage. I'm not really sure that works from a practical point of view though. If it works functionally the same, then cutting back on the end drain doesn't really matter. I would certainly boost the damage in SC. Giving it a better animation time would be awesome as well. You and/or teammates will at some point die because you were stuck in SC's animation for 3 seconds. You play /elec long enough it's going to happen.
Hello Amy,
I was just reviewing peoples suggestions to see how I can improve Biospark, and noticed this paragraph. Great insight here and Honestly, when they lowered the endurance drain amount (whenever that was), we should have gotten SOMETHING in return, a.k.a more damage, faster animation, or both even.
One other thing I have noticed with the draining effects (DrMike touched on this as well) is that Villains dont really need much endo to do anything. And reviewing the electric attacks, I noticed they only have a 30% chance to reduce the recovery of the target by 100%. THAT would help alot if this was 100% chance for zero recovery for 8 seconds.
Because I can drain a boss dry pretty fast, but very quickly he is able to attack again, even with a tiny sliver of endurance.
Any strategy tips on dealing with this little phenomena ? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Black_Marrow
City Of Heroes will never be Champions Online and Vice Versa. They are seperate for a reason.
I dont want City of Heroes to be Champions Online.
I want CoH to be CoH, but with more options than currently found and do everything BETTER than Champions Online -
Quote:Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Note that (a) I'm talking about Epic ATs, not the APP/PPPs, and (b) the devs have said that 50 IS too late (the VEATs being given the 50 unlock for parity,) and any future epics would be unlocked a different way - so it could well be, say, a 25 SF that does it.
Ahhh, I misunderstood your meaning.
Yeah I am not a big fan of unlocking content. But I also believe the ends justify the means at times, so if that would be the mechanism for additional AT combinations, I would live with that. -
Quote:I hear youOriginally Posted by Memphis_Bill
The problem with this (and potentially what we'll see with GR) is one of muddying the waters a bit too much. That and, as mentioned - you don't want tank-mages. Give my Ice/ blaster a Defensive set and you're coming close, for instance - ranged damage, slows, two holds, an AOE and then defense? What would I really be worried about facing? Not much. We'll have to see how GR affects the game. I *know* I'll be bringing some Dominators over. I love the playstyle there.
That said, I'd think more ATs would be added in the form of epics (hopefully with actual storylines behind them instead of the VEAT nonsense - which are less an "epic" than cliff notes of a reader's digest version.) They're allowed a bit more flexibility, while being given other tradeoffs (and I wouldnt' argue with seeing another group to specifically hunt them, either.)
One of my problems with epics is that they come too little too late.
For example, I like defenders and controllers, but if I want a more melee feel I have to take fairly weak pool powers, or in the case of the defender wait for the level 41 attack.
You cannot build an attack chain with ONE attack.
Dominators may very well be a big part of my future, but how about a melee corruptor/defender ? I would play that ! -
Quote:Originally Posted by StratoNexus
While I have dreamed of playing a Katana/Kinetics since 2004 when I met my first Tsoo, I am thinking we may never see melee + buff/debuff, which makes me sad.
Dont give up hope Strato,
even if the idea is not easy to implement or balance, and it would be fun to play, why the heck not I say
hmmm... didnt intend that to sound like a rhymn -
Quote:Exactly So MemphisOriginally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Many of these examples we already have in standard ATs. If you don't want to play redside, you just have to wait for GR - since you have them in Dominators (Controllers with melee and ranged attacks.)
Range+high defense... isn't going to happen naturally. With IOs, perhaps, but it's one of those combos that has high probability to trivialize content - the "tank-mage." Unless you really like being blue, I wouldnt' hold your breath.
This is one of the factors that got me thinking down this road.
But you are right, I am a little prejudiced toward the blue side.
You also have to wonder about this. The original game had 5 ATs with certain alignments.
With COV we got 5 more, all with some variations on the old. Are there more ATs in our future ? Hmmm ? Who says we cannot add a 6th Basic AT to each side, then a 7th etc... etc... -
Quote:Heya Strato,Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Since Blasters are my favorite type of character to play and your system totally leaves them out, I'd have to say, uhhhh... No thank you.
Now if we can take Melee Sets and Ranged Sets together... sure thing.
Yeah, I realized that this idea has lots of issues and wrinkles.
For the most part its being met (like most of people's proposals) with reasons why NOT to do it.
The truth is, what I hope the developers consider is to start porting over more options instead of more powersets that are similar to ones already there.
Here is just one Example:
Kinetics/Super Strength Defender
If you play Kinetics, its a melee range set, but the only actual melee attacks you can get are wimpy pool powers, vet powers or wait until 41 and get ONE halfway decent attack with a huge activation.
Giving me more of the same but a different flavor is cool, but how bout something REALLY NEW.
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Quote:Relax Sharker, I am not trying to get your goat.Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
Biospark, what part of it was already tried and didn't work don't you understand? and just a little fyi, one of the original developers for this game that left to make the other game is finding out way to late what happens when you do this. the entire game got a hit with a really really big nerf bat with nails and barbed wire and flames on it on the first day of release. if that is the style of play you are interested in, please go try it and come back and let us know what little fun it was for you.
If you dont like the idea, thats fine. If you are satisfied that two attempts at a more skill-based approach is enough to settle the discussion for you, thats also fine.
For me, I have been playing RPGs (on and off the computer) for almost 30 years, and I dont accept the idea that something is not possible or that its pre-ordained to failure.
Fact is, if you try the same idea again, with the same flawed concepts, it will fail AGAIN.
That doesnt mean that something else cannot achieve a better result.
As for playing the other game, I don't have any plans to. That doesnt mean, however, that I think COH is perfect as is. We can all open our minds to the ideas of others on how to improve this game that we love so much. -
Quote:Thanks Linea_AlbaOriginally Posted by Linea_Alba
Storm/Ice is one of my favorites.
And good job on what you've done so far. I still say I'd have no patience for Emp/Electric. I have done Emp/Sonic and I would do Emp/Ice ... but the last combo I would have chosen is Emp/Electric. So Kudos.
I definitely hit a rough patch around 17-22, and only slightly easier from 23-27, but I cannot say enough good things about Tesla Cage.
One thing that I would advise any Defender trying this same thing is to look at your IOs very carefully in the teens. I socketed all level 15 IOs at level 12 and then did an overhaul to level 25 IOs at level 22. I did not change much of anything in between, cept socketing new slots with 15s. ! This was a really bad plan !
I would recommend using just DOs and whatever upgrades you find until level 17.
Save your Luck Charms and other salvage that will be needed and put level 20 IOs at level 17 and level 25s starting at 22. Sounds costly, but the difference between level 15 and level 20 IOs is exactly the boost you need to get thru that rough patch. -
Quote:You are correct JusticeZero,Originally Posted by JusticeZero
The first character I was able to solo effectively with was a Defender. I eventually got a Scrapper to 50, but only after I got used to his squishiness. But in general? Scrappers bore me. I've tried a Blaster a few times and it's boring and frustrating. Your problem is probably a personal style issue.Quote:Originally Posted by DrMike2000I wouldn't be advising anyone with under a year's playtime to go solo a Defender. Its one of those things you do when you're tried out the more travelled paths in the game.
It is a playstyle issue for me. In all the time playing CoH, I have put a great deal of time into alts of various AT/Combinations, with the most time spent on Defenders and Controllers. For me, Defeat = Failure.
So you can imagine my surprise when a little over a year ago, I tried to make a "defendery" blaster, which is now my highest level toon. Up till then I spent almost no time playing Blasters because they were far too squishy (again Defeat = Failure). You would often find people who play blasters actually proud of their "debt" badges.
Maybe experience is the real thing to be learned here. Who knows. But what I do know is that the elements of survival I learned playing a Blaster into the 40s, has given me a great deal of insight into ALL ATs. -
Quote:Hey LordXenite, looks like you found me in this thread.Originally Posted by LordXenite
But this you can already make with the current system implemented in CoX. The only thing is, there are perhaps more combinations that allow this in the Other Game than is currently possible in CoX and even that theory is just that, a theory.
Wishing for more power-sets, more AT's, and more varied gameplay elements, I totally understand... but simply wanting to implement a system that has been already tried and rejected by the actual development team that now develops that Other Game, that doesn't seem right somehow, you know?
Someone recommended I bring this discusion here, so I did
As far as wishing for changes that have been tried already, you have to admit that there must have been an appeal to it before or else it would have never left the drawing board.
Also, someone else voiced a similar comment, but I will respond again with my own comment about what the developement team may or may not have learned over the past 5 years. I think if they were to attempt such a system this time around (armed with years of experience under their belts) that the result would be different.
So, in essence, I dont subscribe to the idea that it could not be done because the first naive attempt was a failure.
Also, I do believe that the game has quite a lot of possibilities for whatever your looking for, but I think more combinations which are not just similar but with a different flavor would be nice. Every proliferation move is nice, but not anything that makes me go "oooh" "ahhh". -
Quote:Actually, I think of it just like proliferation.Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
one big problem... this isn't a proliferation. it is a total redesign of the game mechanincs. one in which i can almost assure you NC would not do at this point. tankmages didn't make it out of alpha for a good reason. also, just because some other game tried doing this doesn't mean that it is something that will work here.
No one says the AT labels have to be taken away. What I am suggesting is instead of adding 1 or 2 new powersets with all the same flavor, how about actually adding something new.
So you decide to roll a Tanker, then choose Invulnerablity, and then when your Secondary choices pop up, WOW there are 25 or more options instead of what you see now.
Including all the melee sets, ranged sets and controller sets. Obviously these would not be as powerful as the PRIMARY version of them, and you would be trading Damage for safety and a SPECIFIC group role.
"who says Iron Man is a Blaster", what if he was a INV/Energy Tanker.
Tanker level defense with Defender level blasts. Is that REALLY a tank mage ? I dont think so. -
Quote:Most likely, which is why I am hoping (prays to whatever MMO gods are out there) that if there is ever a "City of Heroes II" that this will be revisited.Originally Posted by IanTheM1
It would also be a ludicrously huge design swap and balance undertaking for a game that's 5+ years old. A catch 22 in that regard, I suppose.
Oh, and for the record, that other game is not COH2. At least not for me.
I was very excited about the other game for awhile, and visually it looks awesome. There are just too many little concepts that have turned me off from it.There are too many things which I have heard and read about since the begining that make me want to stick with this team for now. -
Quote:Well it would add;Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Well, how many possible combos (total in the game, not just your list) are there that 1) don't result in gimping (i.e. self defense + (de)buff: neigh zero damage) while 2) being distinct from what's already in the game (i.e. pri:(de)buff sec:control is extremely similar to controllers already)? I think the actual number would be quite few (pairing Henchmen with a few other secondaries is the only thing that jumps out to me, and maybe (de)buff with melee damage), so it might be better suited to just add those as brand new ATs (story driven or otherwise).
I don't think this suggestion has the same inherent issues that a completely free-form power system has, but I'm not sure if it really adds much above an AT system (maybe thinking of it as 'AT-lite').
Tanks that use Ranged Attacks or controls instead of Melee
Scrappers that use Team Defense or Controls, but have low personal Defense
Controllers that would use Defender level Blasts or Melee Attacks
Defenders that Used melee instead of Ranged, or Controls instead of Ranged
Blasters that have scrapper defenses or controller powers for defense
Plus all the existing combinations.
Also, I figure the damage numbers and endurance costs would all be tweaked.
Melee Primary 100%
Melee Secondary 80%
Blaster Primary 90%
Blaster Secondary 70%
Controller Primary 75%
Controller Secondary 60%
*** this scaling is based on safety factors, Range : safer than Melee, Control safer than both
Self Defense Primary 100%
Self Defense Secondary 75%
Team Defense Primary 100%
Team Defense Secondary 75%
Active Primaries (Melee, Blast, Control) would get Critical Hits and Critical Holds
Passive Primaries (Self and Team Defense) would get HP boost and/or 20-25% endurance savings on all powers.
Also to further avoid abusive combos, HPs, Buffs, Defenses, Resistance, Damage etc could all be capped at appropriate levels depending on your primary choices (Which is essentially already done) -
Quote:I was fairly certain this was not an original Idea on my part.Originally Posted by Dalantia
They tried this in Alpha, it didn't work then as it allowed people to break the game and to cripple themselves too easily, and so, don't foresee them allowing it again.
This has been hashed over six billion times, so don't take it too personally when people point this out.
One thing that is most likely true though, is that after 5+years of experience,
I would bet money that the developers could pull it off better now than back then.
I dont take healthy debate personally, unless someone starts throwing insults.
So, I appreciate the feedback
-
Hello Folks,
In the wake of Another Game like City of Heroes hitting the scene,
I began to think of how proliferation is moving CoH/CoV in the direction of more options
for power combinations and had an idea I thought I would share.
I apologize if this has already been presented by someone, and of course, I also
realize how large of an undertaking it would be for Coding (possibly).
Anyway, what if instead of proliferation, all powersets were opened up, but with
some built in rules. Each character would pick a primary and a secondary powerset,
just as we do now, but depending on what primary you choose, certain choices are
then removed from the list of secondaries. The strength of your powers would be
based on whether its a primary or a secondary set, and Inherents could be triggered
off the primary, but modified to be more generic.
For Example
Primary Choices (Hero-side) would be Self-Defense(Inv,Regen,SR etc...),
Blast Sets, Melee Sets, Control Sets, Team-Defense(Defender primaries).
These same choices would all be available as secondaries depending on what primary you chose.
Primary Choice ------> Available Secondary
Self-Defense ----> Melee Sets, Control, Ranged Sets
Melee Sets ------> Self-Defense, Control, Team Defense
Ranged Sets -----> Self-Defense, Control, Team-Defense
Control Sets ------> Team-Defense, Melee Sets, Ranged Sets
Team-Defense -----> Melee Sets, Control, Ranged Sets
You will notice that every primary choice is missing 1 combination.
This allows a pool of choices still for Epic powersets.
For example: Team-Defense for Self-Defense Primary (Tankers)
Melee for Ranged and vice versa, Self-Defense for Control and Team-Defenders.
Another thing that would happen with your primary choice would be an adjustment
to your hit points. This would mainly effect Tankers (Self_defense Primaries),
but each choice could get a small tweak for game balance.
Finally, the Inherents.
Self_defenders and Team Defenders would each get a seperate Inherent (Gauntlet and Vigilance)
but perhaps with some improvement over current implementation so that there is a solo benefit.
Melee, Ranged and Control primary would get Critical Hits (Chance for x2 Damage, not guaranteed for control primary)
Perhaps the Damage of control powers would need a tweak to bring them in line with
damage dealing powersets like melee or ranged
Primaries would operate at 100% effectiveness, Secondaries would be at 75% effectiveness AND damage.
I welcome any input, especially regarding the allowed combinations.
Also remember, I am thinking about how other games coming into the market will impact the popularity and
population of CoH/CoV.