Biospark

Agreed.

I just have never heard this as a reason why being more endurance efficient would be bad.
Not having run the numbers, you could be right, but I dont think the kind of endurance savings I am thinking about (15-20%) would put defenders higher than scrappers or blasters at that point. I have been wrong before.

I am sorry Garent, I dont quite understand the relevance of your example.

Because, every character I develop places endurance recovery and endurance use pretty high on the list of "things-to-do", so the comparative performance of heroes all at zero endurance seems... odd to me. Afterall, once you hit zero endurance, your DPS plummets, for any AT. You would be comparing one small number to a large number slightly less often.

Also, I dont think that the numbers would have to be adjusted by a huge amount.
I am asking only for 15% more damage, which would save enough endurance to make me happy if I could also see some kind of inherent effect while solo. There are others that suggest even more damage, but the end result should not in any way infringe on Scrapper, Blaster, Corruptor or even Tanker DPS.

In the absence of a DPS boost, thats where my feelings regarding endurance efficiency come from. I am fine with being lower damage as an AT. After all I left Defenders shortly after launch and played controllers (prior to Containment). But doing less damage doesnt change the Health of the mobs in the game, so it requires more blasts AND time to defeat the same mobs as a high-dps AT. Being more efficient SHOULD be the counter-balance. I could be wrong, but what would be a better counter-weight in your opinion ?

Its all win for me I have always liked the forcefield set (from the very start of the game), but for my own reasons did not stay with one past the early 20s. Now with color customization and alot more experience with Defenders, you could say I was just looking for an excuse to take one all the way to 50.

As far as solo speed, I have never been put off too much by the speed of Defenders, just that they suffer considerably in the first half of their careers. The only time I find the kill speed annoying is when I am out soloing in order to build up some influence, or get some recipe drops, and face Boss-level villains. This, mainly, is the reason I turn off Bosses while solo. It gets tiresome fairly quickly trying to beat down a Purple Boss. I could take several regular spawn groups in the same amount of time.

Actually Fulmens, I am not strictly soloing this character.
I am 27 now and have earned 25+ of those levels solo.

The reason for this trip is that I have seen several threads by another player who claims consistently that this combination cannot do well and runs out of endurance alot.

The combination is one that I have tried several times to get off the ground, but now I will stick with it all the way to 50. So far it has been easier than my Empath's journey and after reaching 22 and 3-slotted stamina, I am flying through content at normal difficulty.

One other comment I might add is that by spending more than a minor amount of time "Solo" as a defender, you learn things about your powers that you might otherwise miss out on by strictly being a team-only defender.

I am not sure about what people are calling "Invincible" now.

+3/x1 seems more like the old "Invincible" to me, but its hard to say, since its been awhile.

I am old and forgetfull.

Very interesting observation Teeth. I would have rated Kin/Sonic the top spot and Rad/Sonic as the second best, but that is strictly based off the multiplicative nature of -res and +dmg combined. This favors Kin/Sonic by a good margin, but the Kinetic being very reactive and requiring more clicking throughout the battle (Transfusion, Transference, FS, Siphon etc...) does make me wonder how much dps loss over time you suffer.

Darn, looks like I need to roll another Defender !

Neon hit this one right on the head!

I recently rolled a Kin/Sonic as part of a themed build.
Dont even have Fulcrum yet, but Siphon power plus sonic blasts is INSANE dps.
Feels like a Blaster with a mega-heal, and I havent even gotten to the good stuff.

Prior to this Defender, my highest DPS combo (For a Defender) would have been Kin/Dark.

Not having levelled high enough to use Liquefy, I will take your word for it New_Dawn.

But I could certainly get behind a power-by-power review of all defender powers and have each one adjusted in one area according to its highest need. Long recharge powers get their recharge reduced, high endurance cost powers that are not necessarily high recharge get a endurance reduction and other harder to quantify powers could get a boost in both areas to be more powerfull generically.

It would certainly make me feel more happy than I already am about choosing Defender over Controller as a support character.

Level 17 to 21 is kinda brutal all the way around Dr.Mike, my newb FF/Nrg is 26 now,
and took PFF at 22, Aid Other/Aid Self at 24/26, and with all level 25 Generic IOs I can do +1/x2 with relative ease, assuming I dont get cascade defense failures and mezz at the same time, I just PFF+Aid Self, 3-slotted Stamina and Health puts me back in action quite quickly. Defense is Dispersion+Hover (approx 18% iirc)

Bottom Line FF/Nrg has been tons easier than Emp/Elec, who had to wait till 28th to start feeling able to bump difficulty up a notch.

Sorry Fulmens, I think we have (more accurately --> Me) have threadjacked this one off topic for recharge on defenders as a way to differentiate them more from controllers.

I can only offer my apologies to the OP and the community.

If you would like to discuss the sonic powerset, I would happily participate in another thread if you would be willing to start it.

100% Agree with you

I am fully aware of what the power does, and the fact that it does alot more than Tough is also the reason its endurance cost is alot higher.
What my question WAS, is in regards to the personal survival boost it provides when compared to Dispersion bubble.
Dispersion bubble seemingly provides MORE survival to the Defender before you take into consideration ALL other arguments.

Fulmens, I dont know if I have offended you in the past, if so, my apologies.
This second comment of yours I find a little belittling, because the 2 attacks you highlight dont have the same damage, recharge and endurance cost. They are apples and oranges.
My discussion is regarding Sonic Dispersion and Dispersion Bubble. Which are remarkably similar in all ways EXCEPT their baseline survival amounts. To top it off the S/L value is the same as Tough. Shouldnt a PRIMARY power offer more resistance to S/L than a POOL power ?


You can choose to do so, but you should know that I phrased my original post as a question.

I think your tone in this post is not what I would expect from a well-known veteran like yourself.
But perhaps I am reading more into it. If so, my apologies again.

The Idea is a good one, and it keeps with the spirit of the term "Vigilance", however, like Dr.Mike said every power and every powerset needs to be looked at seperately. They vary in what they need quite significantly.

For example, for Empathy having a recharge boost on Healing Aura or Heal Other would help in a small way, but higher recharge on Fortitude, Adrenaline Boost and the Auras would definitely be cool. Now contrast that with a set like Forcefields. Lowering the recharge on Deflection or Insulation is really insignificant in the grand scheme of using Forcefield. So even though these are buffs, much like Fort and AB, the recharge component is completely different in the chain of what will improve the power.

The idea of global recharge is much like global endurance savings, in that its a great idea, just not equally beneficial across every defender primary. This is also the reason why I like the idea of endurance savings, because its a little more universal to each primary. Further, by making defenders more efficient endurance-wise, it does not boost their DPS (potentially upsetting other Ranged ATs like Blasters/Corruptors), but still manages to assist them in using their blasts more often.

I guess it depends on how much you love any given powerset.
After getting Biospark to 50 and all the many alts I have played using Electric Blasts, I STILL ADORE electric blasts. So much so that I would love to have ???/Electric Blast Defender of EVERY PRIMARY Hehe

Of course, real life, family, job all that stuff makes that more of a dream than a real possibility.

Even so, Emp/Electric turned out so well for me, that my second highest defender is a Kinetic/Electric Defender on Guardian. He was sapping at 27 just as well as Biospark can at 50. Thats impressive.

Westley, Good Luck on your new PK. I think you will be unimpressed though until you get Cosmic Burst.
But from the sounds of it, you are not planning a solo trip like my current FFer.

Hello Dr.Mike,

Since I know you have some in-depth experience on Sonic versus Forcefields, maybe you have some insight into a small disparity between the two sets.

Dispersion Bubble grants 10% Defense to all, which taken purely by itself represents a 20% survival increase on even con minions.

Sonic Dispersion grants 15% resist, which represents only 15% in the same scenario.

Granted they scale differently and Sonic powers can grant increased DPS which has a survival implication. But why would they not make Sonic dispersion 20% to be in-line with FF's bubble. After all 15% resist is the same amount tough grants to a Defender, seemingly out of line with the whole Primary > Secondary > Pool

This always bothered me when I played a sonic.

P.S. I did not know that Controller and Defender RA both granted the same recovery amount. Thats probably something that should be adjusted. And to be honest, I would LOVE to have the boost be granted in a faster recharge, but highly doubt that will occur.

P.P.S Sorry to the OP, not trying to threadjack. This is a very good discussion topic, and one I know alot of defenders feel strongly about. Its my opinion though that changing recharge values or adding recharge global boosts does not address the core issue I feel defenders experience, which is two-fold. How to address the endurance issues pre-stamina and secondly, how to provide the defender more opportunity to solo well, which is to say faster/safer. Buffing Defenders in particular.

Uhm ??? Defender ???

Exactly the issue I have with Vigilance.
They could leave the effect pretty much alone and I would be happy, AS LONG AS it would give something for solo play.
I love my defenders on teams, No, I prefer playing them on teams, but since I really dont like Pugging, I WILL solo when my friends are not around.

I am a firm believer that the endurance costs for Defenders need some kind of tweak.
Playing defenders alot and having done so many of them pre-stamina and SOs really makes the endurance issues blindingly obvious.

As far as recharge, I dont see any problems there, to be honest. Although, my personal opinions on long recharge powers like regen aura, recovery aura are just that, personal. I dont really expect them to be adjusted at this point.

Endurance costs, on the other hand, should really be looked at, especially pre stamina and with regards to soloing. I dont mind taking longer to take down villains, but to drain my bar as well, doesnt seem fair.