Biospark

Hehehe ! Yeah and I only use 2 of those currently

I have been toying with the idea of all three, but not liking the numbers in Mids so far.

Combat Jumping, Maneuvers, Assault, Tactics, and Charged Armor <--- Ouch !

I have characters that use the pool attacks as well, but I also have characters that only want tough/weave and have no use for a minor attack that they will not use at all.
What I am hoping to see is a flexible system where those people that dont want an attack can choose a non-attack to open the pool, continue on into the pool and with 3 picks, not have any attacks which they will not use. By moving kick to tier 2 and beefing it up some, I was thinking that even the melee ATs would find an attractive option (with no re-draw issues) if they desired. And of course anyone (like a controller) looking for more attacks, would still have access to 2 attacks in this pool.

As far as the resist goes, I still cannot see why 5% resist (enhanceable to 7.5% approx) would be too much. There is so little stacking resist available in the game for non-armored ATs that I really feel this would make the set attractive for something besides Weave.
If the DEVs add more resistance options or better ones (thru IOs or even Incarnates) then you could be absolutely correct. But without knowing where they (the Devs) will be taking the game in the future, I can only base this idea off the existing state of the game.
One last thing that I may have failed to indicate, but would certainly be true. The 5% resist amount is most likely where scrappers would fall, Tankers would be closer to 6%, while squishy ATs more like 3-4%. Currently Tough has variable amounts of resist, so its certain that any additional pool resist powers would have variable amounts based on ATs.

Well, I guess thats true if you subscribe to the idea that Resist to Defense ratio is approx 2 to 1.

Personally I dont find that true at all, and here is my rationale; Most defenses are generic and will protect from nearly all sources of damage in the game. When they succeed, you take ZERO damage, regardless of how large or small the incoming hit was.

Resistance is extremely hard to get large amounts of unless you are an armored AT to begin with, and as I have stated previously, stacking Tough onto existing S/L toggles is a halfway decent option. Resistance has one redeeming factor in that a larger hit is reduced by a greater absolute amount of damage, but I think defense can be said to have that same benefit.

Finally, we get to the big factor that favors Defense: Mezz effects can be avoided.
Every AT which would seek mezz avoidance gets more benefit from defense and less from resistance, cannot stack resistance until the end game and has to take TWO marginally useless powers before being able to get Weave.

So, in summary, I feel Defense > Resistance UNLESS that resistance provides a very noticeable amount of protection to make up for the lack of ANY mezz mitigation.

I am sure the numbers Gurus would prove me wrong on paper, but thats my in-game "gut-feeling" on the strength of "Tough".

Very interesting thought Miladys

Buffing sets = Defenders
DeBuffing sets = Corruptors


Too late for this though

Pool powers don't necessarily have to be at half strength of equivalent Primary/Secondary powers. In fact, there are some powers that are actually stronger than their equivalents.

Air Superiority for example is as good or better than Thunder Kick. That's comparing a primary to a tertiary. Not a good enough example; how do you explain Hasten.

2-3% resist would be total craptastic. It would be better than an attack you would never use, but still not a decent power at all. A better progression of strength would be something like this: 130% effective if Primary, 100% if secondary, 70% is Tertiary.
So if a Tanker passive resist were around 12%, Scrapper level would be 9%, and making Tertiary around 6%. Any other progression, especially on something like resist would be cruel and unusual IMO.

Thanks for the response Memphis_Bill, I did not know how that all went down. One of the reasons I keep coming back to this game is that Developers actually listen to the fan base and are willing to correct things that are not "fun".

I agree with you on Tier 3 power pools having an innate "cost/burden" being the power choice investment. This (in general) is not an issue if each prior pick has a benefit that is "worthy" at all levels and across all ATs. So I would call it the "cost" of getting Stamina instead of the "burden" of getting Stamina into your build.

"Boxing/Kick" OTOH are "burdens" for most builds or ATs.

I actually like the way the Fitness pool is designed. Swift and Hurdle are not "bad" choices as openers because every character needs to travel between missions and the two choices offered are well-suited and flexible enough for most every character (except Teleporters perhaps).

My personal thoughts on "Fitness" however is that it is too essential to most builds. I have seen many suggestions regarding how to "roll" these powers into every characters basic make-up (similar to rest and sprint), but the Devs have come out and said "NO" to this.

With that being said, "Fitness" is probably the BEST power pool design out there, because it provides its benefit completely in a "passive" way. Taking fitness puts ZERO burden on your character and that is a great "tertiary" design IMHO.

I dont consider IO "mules" as a well-designed trade-off for getting deeper into a power pool.
But that is just my personal opinion. Boxing as a power is a decent pick for a Controller looking to build a single target attack chain. But other than that, its a low dps and un-attractive pick for most every character I have ever taken it for.

My Empath had it and used it as part of an early attack chain with Charged Bolts, Lightning Bolt, and Air Superiority. But this was mainly to shore up the weakness of electric blasts at low level and low levels of recharge. At some point, it was just too annoying to have a power that I never used and the character was redesigned around leadership instead of fighting.

So I guess I would agree with both of you in that it is "possible" to get mileage out of the Fighting Pool attacks, but at the end game for "most" players and builds, these attacks will NOT be used for their specific functions. They will be used for the secondary purpose of IO plans or "getting to Weave". I disagree with that state of affairs. But thats just me.

Exactly ! The unlocking process can be improved a great deal by adding 1 more power and making an effort to make the choices more flexible.

And I completely agree that some pools are very strong and others very weak. Something has to be the best and worst in any array of choices, but they could all be given a facelift.

Never read anything for certain regarding why the 5th powers were added to the Ancillary powers, since that was back when I was taking a 3 year break from CoX, but it makes sense that they could have done this to open up the choices. You get 2 choices at tier 1, then 2 choices at tier 2 and finally a Tier 3. I am no permutations expert but that is more flexibility than 2-1-1.

The pools should be re-analyzed to improve this flexibility and while their at it, some less-used or not-so-useful powers could be replaced or improved.

Here is another example of what should be fixed;

Presence Pool

Tier ONE: Choice of Challenge or Intimidate (Single Target powers, one fear, one taunt)

Tier TWO: Choice of Provoke or Invoke Panic (AoE versions of Taunt or Fear)

Tier THREE: something new and worth investing 2 prior picks


This is how I would attempt to sort out the Primary Pools

Yeah I am certain we would never see 10% passive resist, despite the fact it would not be overpowered, but the main idea is to add a 5th power and restructure so that you can skip the attacks if desired.

Another thought on numbers was to have Hardiness as a 5%(approx) passive resist to all types (except PSI) and then leave Tough as is on the second tier as a toggle but add in another 5% E/N/F/C to Tough. This way you get the extra resists to improve tough and the pool without adding a 3rd toggle.

Thanks everyone for the feedback

I think it means Damage goes up as player count drops, and endurance savings increase as player count rises. So Max damage boost while solo, scaling down as you add teammates, and it gets replaced with a global recharge or endurance boost as you add more teammates.

This is one of the major reasons I like the idea of creating a Dual-pathway for the pools (just as the Ancillary powers are currently implemented). Moving the two attacks to one channel and adding an energy resist power to couple with Tough allows some flexibility in choices. My blaster seeking Weave could skip a useless attack, while my controller that wishes to fill in an attack chain could still choose an attack if desired.