BellyButtonJelly

Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA

BellyButtonJelly, lay off. We can see by your join date that you've had the game for less than a year, and Lyger has been on since '05, so they probably have more experience on the topic than you. Maybe the guy who PL'd your 2 50 brutes in that 6-7 month time period since you got the game likes elec/fire better, or a ss/fire brute that PL'd you wasn't quite as fast, but any ss/fire brute will out farm an elec/fire brute with he same inf invested.

Originally Posted by Rylas

I mainly just want to Brute. Deal out damage and survive at decent levels. I figured 30% defense to S/L/E/N covers a lot of incoming damage. It may not be the soft-cap, but with resist numbers to reduce incoming damage, it should be enough last between HF uses. The +HP is just to help boost the effective resistance. 50% global recharge should allow a higher damage output, and the fact that it's all fire or energy damage will mean most of it's going to get through.

Do I want to farm with it? Eh, if I feel the need. Sure. But all-around "bruting" is all I'm worried about.

I'll take a look at the build when I get home, but one thing that jumps out is two-slotted Hecs. I meant it when I said no purples. I have good resources, but not at levels for buying purple IOs. I get using them for keeping enhancement values decent, but there's cheaper ways to do that and get good bonuses.

Originally Posted by Rylas

I've been racking my brain for a good exotic damage output machine, and figured the best way to go would be something with /FA. Considering the AoE potential of EL/, I figured it would be the best pair up. I'm sure others have tried highlight exotic damage before, so I wanted to see if anyone had experience with EL/FA. I considered DM/FA, for it's potential to double up on heals and end-recovery, but with it's single target damage it seemed it wouldn't output as much as I'd like it to.

I've thrown together a little build where I wanted to go for a trifecta of bonus groups. First I wanted to get as close to 30% Def for S/L/E/N and as close to 50% recharge as I could get. Lastly, I wanted to have a decent sprinkle of +HP. All of which shouldn't destroy my enhancement values in my power selections. Somehow, I'm sure there's a more efficient way to accomplish these goals (without dipping into purples or PVP-IOs). I'd say the inf I have at hand is moderate, but you will see the PVP defense IO which I saved up for on A-Merits.

So, any suggestion are welcome, and if you post a build just make sure to list out the bonuses at the end (same format I'm doing now) so I can view them while at work (where I'm on a Mac without Mids). Also, if you think another power set combo would work better, feel free to mention it and the reasons you think it would out perform. Thank in advance.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Brohemeth: Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Concealment
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Havoc Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam(5)
Level 2: Jacobs Ladder -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(15), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(40), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(45), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(45), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Dct'dW-Heal(46)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Krma-ResKB(A)
Level 8: Thunder Strike -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(9), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 10: Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(43), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(43), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTgt-Rchg(48)
Level 12: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), RctvArm-ResDam(19)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), F'dSmite-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Consume -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(39), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(40), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(48), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 22: Blazing Aura -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(23), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(23), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(33), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 24: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(25), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), RctvArm-ResDam(27)
Level 26: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(29)
Level 28: Burn -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(31), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(31), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 30: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(37), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(37), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(34), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(34), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36)
Level 35: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 38: Temperature Protection -- GA-3defTpProc(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(39), S'fstPrt-ResKB(39)
Level 41: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 44: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
------------

Set Bonus Totals:

• 21% Defense(Smashing)
• 21% Defense(Lethal)
• 6% Defense(Fire)
• 6% Defense(Cold)
• 22.25% Defense(Energy)
• 22.25% Defense(Negative)
• 6% Defense(Psionic)
• 13.5% Defense(Melee)
• 14.13% Defense(Ranged)
• 6% Defense(AoE)
• 7.2% Max End
• 27% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 50% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 264.24 HP (17.63%) HitPoints
• Knockback (Mag -8)
• Knockup (Mag -8)

Originally Posted by Coolio

Pettition the devs to fix this or remove proc sets from being slotted in 'Chain Induction'

Originally Posted by Nihilii

I don't think I've ever seen a SS character not using Rage outside of a few RPers here and there. If you stopped roleplaying during your farms, you'd probably find an elec/fire brute doesn't come anywhere close to a SS/fire brute ; I'd know, because a casual glance at the numbers can tell anyone so, but also because I have both combos. As usual, ingame experience shows good math is correct.

Originally Posted by ultrawatt

*sigh* i had a long rather well constructed response about how SS/fire/mu > elec/fire(even with mu). But since you likely wouldn't understand it anyway, maybe you just dont know math or something, and make up some ******** response I'm just going to stop now.

Originally Posted by Gypsy_of_Paradox

I have a SS/Fire/Pyre, no endurance issues.

I have the +end in stamina and the T2 Cardiac end/resist slotted.

Back before i18, he was a SS/Fire/Mu, after i18 he became a SS/Fire/Body. The two +end procs in Conditioning and Phys Perfection. The Alpha allowed for more damage in build, which I'm quite happy with.

But to answer the question of very best farmer.

Any toon you can stand to play for longer then 3 hours straight doing the same thing. Some builds are just more efficient then others, anything can farm.

Originally Posted by ultrawatt

Ok, I for one DO NOT recommend farming on JUST SS/fire, SS/fire would SUCK ***. It’s also the /Mu (or /pyre if you want) that is also very very important. My SS/fire/mu ALWAYS has an AoE up...so yeah 0 waiting for anything AT ALL. So you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. Havent we been over this before? Did i mention i always have an AoE up?

Originally Posted by LygerZero

Elec/Fire is meh. Cones arent my thing. It's decent, but not more epic farmer than SS/Fire

Fire/Fire is good as well, but the KD proc in Footstomp is pretty damn sweet. That and double rage (regardless of the crash) will have you pumping out amazing damage while stacked.

Originally Posted by plainguy

I'm a bit in the dark with Kheldian's but if you can get defense cap I can say it really makes the game 100 times easier.

I just do not know if the IO set bonuses slotted in other forms if they carry over ?

Originally Posted by Microcosm

What are you fighting that makes 85% resistance not good enough?
In order to mimic the mitigation of 45% softcapping to all positions against regular (50% base tohit) mobs, I believe you would need about 16% defense to go with your 85% resistance.

Other than that I can't really comment as I am no expert on human-only builds. I guess remember to use Stygian Circle?

Originally Posted by Maniac16

I made this build, but i wanted to know if anyone thought it could be better then this, this will be a farmer just for fire damage of course. Thank you for the suggestions!

Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer

Okay I went back to the ambush farm to test out the Claws/Dark with Fireball, this time without using inspirations. So, using FU/Spin/Eviscerate/Fireball/Death Shroud I got around 740k inf/minute. Now, with the SS/Fire using Rage/Foot Stomp/Fireball/Blazing Aura I got around 900k inf/minute. And no, I haven't been using Fiery Embrace in any of the tests.

With that, I think I'm done running these for now lol.

Originally Posted by HelinCarnate

Now if we could just get someone without a history of lying to get some numbers on Elec/Fire that would be great.

Originally Posted by Maelwys

Firstly: personal attacks are not becoming.

My Literary ability or lack thereof is not currently the topic under discussion.
For all you know I might be Illiterate, Blind, Dyslexic, Irish, or all of the above.

Secondly: if you wish to measure performance from the start to the finish of a ten second period, with all abilities fully-recharged, then Footstomp will indeed be up twice as Bill just proved it recharges in about seven seconds on a typical build. After the second time it will simply not have completely finished recharging before the ten seconds are up.

Thirdly: I believe this is currently a discussion about farming potential, meaning consistent AOE damage output... not maximum spike AOE damage output once-every-30-seconds. Of course Build Up is going to equal the performance of a Single-Stacked Rage over a ten second period. But after that, Build Up runs out and Rage keeps on going. And Going. And Going. And ends up passing itself again on the next lap.

Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba

SS: Foot stomp: rec-red needed to get it down to 5 seconds for 2 stomps per 10 seconds: Base recharge is 20sec.
5 = 20 / 1+X
5 + 5x = 20
x = 3 300% global recharge needed in footstomp. Yea, that ain't happening.
How about 7 seconds? 186% recharge needed, yea, that's completely doable.

So FS fires off every 7 seconds on a decent build.

It does 59.23 smashing damage (highly resisted) at base hitting up to 10 enemies.

75% fury is the new baseline. That's 150% damage buff. Double stacked rage adds another 160%. (Note: for it to double stack, it has to fire off every 60 seconds. This means after every 60 seconds, there's a 10 second dead period. 1/7th of the time, the brute will deal 0 damage with foot stomp.

Amount of damage the SS user now dishes out IF it hits all 10 targets and assuming you've also managed to get 95% worth of damage enhancement slotted:

59.23 * 1+.95+1.5+1.6 * 10 = 2991 points of damage pushed out. But we have to account for the rage crash: 2991*6/7 = 2564 total damage every 7 seconds

Raged-Furied-Fully slotted foot stomp DPS = 366


I don't know crap about electric melee, so I'm not going there. But I will do claws cuz that I know.

I use followup, eviscerate, spin as my aoe chain. I won't even bother with FU's damage, but I will consider its double stacked buff of 60% on a brute.

Spin does 78.83 lethal, also up to 10 enemies.
Eviscerate does 90.96 lethal, but only to up to 5.

The total animation time of the chain is less than 7 seconds, but we'll call it 7 for the hell of it.

150% from fury, 95% from enhancement, 60% from followup, against target cap.
Spin: 78.83 * 1+1.5+.95+.6 * 10 = 3193 damage
Eviscerate: 90.96 * 1+1.5+.95+.6 * 5 = 1842 damage
Total damage dealt in 7 seconds is 5035 or 719 DPS

719 versus 366.

Looks like claws kicks the crap out of super strength on AoE output.

But does this show the whole story?

Nope. Foot stomp's radius is much large than spin's. It has an easier time affecting 10 enemies at a time. However, this is often grossly overstated by the proponents of SS.

This also ignored aoes taken from the APP/PPPs which any good farmer would. Foot Stomp + Fireball or Foot Stomp + Ball Lightning + Elec Fences is certainly going to bring the SS farmer much closer to the claws user. Of course, the claws user can go get those as well, can't he? Sadly for him, he will have to suffer through redraw issues.

The electric melee user won't.

EDIT: Yea, I ignored fiery embrace. It's proc damage. Slap it on top if ya like, but it's going to benefit those using more aoes in a given time period than those using less.

Originally Posted by Maelwys

Three things are wrong with that.

(i) You are assuming that Build Up and Lightning Rod will both be available for every spawn.
(ii) You are assuming that only a single instance of Rage is running. Rage can be stacked.
(iii) You fail to account for the fact that even with just SOs and Hasten, Footstomp is up TWICE in a ten second period.

(OK... technically four things. You said "CS", when I assume you mean "CI"...)

Build Up and LR's recharge can be brought down to a little under 30 seconds or so with a reasonable investment into Global Recharge set bonuses, plus Hasten. When discussing farming, if it takes a toon 30 seconds to finish off a group and move to the next one, that's rather slow going. My Spines/DA Scrapper, who is not optimised for farming, typically takes 10-15 seconds for each large spawn.

Originally Posted by Metacreativity

You're making claims with no mathematical evidence, which makes them moot. Show us the numbers and we'll prove you wrong with math of our own.

Also, I've been hanging out on these boards a long time. I've seen many people, like yourself act belligerently and get sat down with simple fact and a side of proof. That's how this turn of events will inevitably die.

Good hunting.

Originally Posted by HelinCarnate

Burn can do some huge damage to bosses. If the game decides that they will be one of the 5 hit with the front loaded damage. But lets pretend that you get lucky, every single time and the bosses get hit with burn for the full damage. That puts burn at around 650 damage with FE and BU and a full fury bar. Also if you manage to get the bosses in the high damage portion of LR they will take around 890 damage.

So far that is about 1540 damage to the boss, pretty decnet. At this point you claim that only the bosses are left and you only need one more burn (1540 + 650 =2190) and a thunderstrike (2190 + 540 =2730) to finish them off. I am assuming you have blazing aura on as well so that would be about 30 dps added to this and the chan you provided last right about 10 seconds for an extra 300. Ill even assume you have the 230% ish recharge to get burn to cast 2 times in 10 seconds as well. (I do so it is within the realm of reality) Grand total of 3030 damage. And this is assuming 100% hit rate, even though 54 mobs are much harder to hit.

Level 54 bosses have 1730 hp but wait. Fighting +4 mobs means you are only 48% effective due to the purple patch. So even if they had no resistance to your damage type, you would only do 1454.4 damage. Sorry but once again you are lying to make your favorite set seem better than it is.

Video or it didn't happen. Oh and we are still waiting on the 2:30 1500 ticket video.

Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer

Why are you so mad? The OP asked what Brute has the best AoE damage and we answered. Why would we give them a wrong answer? We're not saying Elec/Fire is terrible or anything, far from it, just that SS/Fire is indeed a little better when it comes to AoE damage. That's all, nothing more, nothing less.

Originally Posted by Metacreativity

It's pretty clear from the tone of your post that you were once a WoW player who was active in the forum community.

SS has the best AoE in the game, and the combination of foot stomp and rage (even more so with double rage) is devastating. Double raged it eclipses the damage of FSC IIRC with twice the range. The new (old) burn makes the combo even more incredible.

While Elec has one true AoE that isn't affected by fury, and several pseudo AoE's like chain induction, who's initial hit is affected by fury but none of the jumps are, and jacob's ladder which IIRC only affects 5 targets. Not to say Elec has no place, it's a fun set with a lot of multitarget abilities. None of them however are superior to foot stomp and rage, let alone double rage.

Matter of fact, isn't claws a better set for AoE than Elec? Simply based on the fact that it's T9 is affected by fury would be enough do choose it over the other for me.

Good hunting.